Reconciliation: Not applicable if you’re an Irish Republican

first doyle

Ever since the signing of the GFA a lot of effort has been put into creating reconciliation between the various political factions involved in the troubles. Imo, the Queens visit is probably the highlight of this from the British point of view and from the Irish point of view it would be the Croke Park Ireland v England game.
However if you’re from the republican persuasion you will know that reconciliation does not apply to Republicans. In recent times we have witnessed a mass propaganda campaign waged against Republicans. We’ve been given a much whitewashed version of events and media supporters of the Dublin government are happy to accommodate the British version of events at the expense of truth. .

The abandonment of Irish nationalists during the partition of Ireland left those in the south in a privileged position. In their privileged position, successive Dublin governments have criticised nationalists for defending themselves against Unionist aggression while at the same time doing nothing to alleviate besieged nationalists. As a consequence of this, the IRA stepped into fill the role of protectors of the nationalist community.
Since the southern government failed to accommodate nationalists, those who did are now the subject of ridicule and it’s not for legitimate reasons. It’s an attempt by the parties in the south to hold onto power.

It this power struggle you will discover the real reason why the Dublin government was set up, it was effectively set up 'to hold Ireland for England' in the words of Lord Birkenhead and no more so is this exemplified than in the current power struggle with Sinn Fein, Ireland’s only all-Ireland party.What distinguishes southern parties from Sinn Fein is that they have zero support in the north of Ireland and for legitimate reasons. They never acknowledged nationalists existed and they chose the path of Unionist appeasement!
The definition of reconciliation is the restoration offriendly relations but between whom does this exactly apply to? The largest party representing nationalist in the north of Ireland are Sinn Fein yet we’ve seen nothing but a disgraceful media campaign launched against them, a media which is all too willing to accept the British version of events.

Tl:dr->As a nordie RA fan, I won't tew see de bad old days back agen.

First Doyle, as a supporter of the Irish Republic,

Feck off hay.

Sir Humphrey Appleby

first doyle wrote: »

Ever since the signing of the GFA a lot of effort has been put into creating reconciliation between the various political factions involved in the troubles. Imo, the Queens visit is probably the highlight of this from the British point of view and from the Irish point of view it would be the Croke Park Ireland v England game.
However if you’re from the republican persuasion you will know that reconciliation does not apply to Republicans. In recent times we have witnessed a mass propaganda campaign waged against Republicans. We’ve been given a much whitewashed version of events and media supporters of the Dublin government are happy to accommodate the British version of events at the expense of truth. .

The abandonment of Irish nationalists during the partition of Ireland left those in the south in a privileged position. In their privileged position, successive Dublin governments have criticised nationalists for defending themselves against Unionist aggression while at the same time doing nothing to alleviate besieged nationalists. As a consequence of this, the IRA stepped into fill the role of protectors of the nationalist community.
Since the southern government failed to accommodate nationalists, those who did are now the subject of ridicule and it’s not for legitimate reasons. It’s an attempt by the parties in the south to hold onto power.

It this power struggle you will discover the real reason why the Dublin government was set up, it was effectively set up 'to hold Ireland for England' in the words of Lord Birkenhead and no more so is this exemplified than in the current power struggle with Sinn Fein, Ireland’s only all-Ireland party.What distinguishes southern parties from Sinn Fein is that they have zero support in the north of Ireland and for legitimate reasons. They never acknowledged nationalists existed and they chose the path of Unionist appeasement!
The definition of reconciliation is the restoration offriendly relations but between whom does this exactly apply to? The largest party representing nationalist in the north of Ireland are Sinn Fein yet we’ve seen nothing but a disgraceful media campaign launched against them, a media which is all too willing to accept the British version of events.

When Gerry Adams admits his role in the Murder of Jean McConville , and when he explains why he hid evidence of his paedophile brothers guilt for seven years then maybe SF can talk about reconciliation.

Frank Black

first doyle wrote: »

We’ve been given a much whitewashed version of events

first doyle wrote: »

successive Dublin governments have criticised nationalists for defending themselves against Unionist aggression

:rolleyes:
Too funny.

Sunnyisland

Deleted User wrote: »

Tl:dr->As a nordie RA fan, I won't tew see de bad old days back agen.

First Doyle, as a supporter of the Irish Republic,

Feck off hay.

Tl:dr
Since partition a succession of Irish governments have never given a **** about The nationalists in the north and now with SF in power there and there growing support down here they are now getting very afraid...

MFdaveIreland

OP, described the situation exactly, not many people realise that the garbage spewed by the media is merely propaganda , everyone condemns the actions of Sinn Fein yet don't want to give an alternative situation

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

why do people specify black as the colour of their text? it's very irritating

.jacksparrow.

The media has always been republicans number one enemy.

The lies they print every week and people lap it up, majority of them can't mop their own opinion based on facts and evidence.

It seems like it's acceptable now to accuse someone and assume their guilty based on some random person or dead persons opinion.

keeponhurling

A Truth Commission would be a good start (for all victims that is, not just selected ones), if people really wanted to deal with the truth and move on.

For Forks Sake

MFdaveIreland wrote: »

OP, described the situation exactly, not many people realise that the garbage spewed by the media is merely propaganda , everyone condemns the actions of Sinn Fein yet don't want to give an alternative situation

Sichation hai?

iDave

Can see your point alright.

but this....

first doyle wrote: »

The abandonment of Irish nationalists during the partition of Ireland left those in the south in a privileged position.

I don't want to start a civil war debate but abandonment is a ridiculous assumption and very few people in 1920s Ireland lived in a 'privileged position'.

General General

iDave wrote: »

I don't want to start a civil war debate but abandonment is a ridiculous assumption and very few people in 1920s Ireland lived in a 'privileged position'.

I think the OP is referring to the 'privileged' nature of having sovereignty, rather than any kind of 'privilege' like 'material wealth' or such.

Grayson

first doyle wrote: »

.What distinguishes southern parties from Sinn Fein is that they have zero support in the north of Ireland and for legitimate reasons. They never acknowledged nationalists existed and they chose the path of Unionist appeasement!

First of all, having quoted that I'd like to point out that you seem to have a fetish for fonts.

Secondly, Irish political parties don't campaign in the north for the same reason they don't campaign in france. They're Irish political parties, not British or french.

Sunnyisland

Grayson wrote: »

First of all, having quoted that I'd like to point out that you seem to have a fetish for fonts.

Secondly, Irish political parties don't campaign in the north for the same reason they don't campaign in france. They're Irish political parties, not British or french.

FF FG & Lab have campaigned in NI on numerous occasions,albeit helping the alliance or SDLP in elections,The Green Party also has an All Ireland structure as have SF and the workers party.

Re the last sentence in your post it's obvious you don't know much about Irish political history.

The Backwards Man

SF are the only party that represent, support and harbour those 'people' who have killed friends of mine whilst purporting to act in my name. They are the only party that prevent me calling myself a republican, even though I'm a citizen of a republic. As far as reconciliation goes, SF can go fcuk themselves.

golfball37

The Backwards Man wrote: »

SF are the only party that represent, support and harbour those 'people' who have killed friends of mine whilst purporting to act in my name. They are the only party that prevent me calling myself a republican, even though I'm a citizen of a republic. As far as reconciliation goes, SF can go fcuk themselves.

perfect username.

No they're not. Shur nobody dies because of hospital waiting lists or indeed bombings in the 26 counties that were covered up. I'll give the Shinners one thing, at least they acknowledge their part in the murder machine. Everyone else just turns the other cheek.

Only a full truth and reconcilation type thingy will see everyone get the answers they want but the real truth in Eire is that there is a hieracrchy of victims. Victims of IRA violence are held in the highest regard whereas anyone else who was murdered because of the NI conflict doesn't matter.

Until that contradictory circle is squared we'll never get a peep out of Adams and the likes.

The OP is failry spot on imo. When the southern establishment see the current SF they see everything they are not in terms of being a Republican. I wouldn't mind any of that but these 3 parties will celebrate the 1916 anniversary as if they have something in common with the people who carried it out.
I find that very strange.

Sunnyisland

[QUOTE golf ball 37
The OP is failry spot on imo. I wouldn't mind any of that but these 3 parties will celebrate the 1916 anniversary as if they have something in common with the people who carried it out.
I find that very strange.[/QUOTE]

Me to.

timthumbni

It's laughable when anyone thinks there is a media propaganda exercise against SF.

SF themselves are so expert in propaganda that Goebbels himself would blush.

If another political party leader was suspected of withholding important information about a child rape case as well as having been accused by some of having direct knowledge of a woman who was shot in the head and disappeared then I think the media may, justifiably, follow up on these claims.

Sf may want to airbrush some of their, and people very close to them, past dirty deeds but that's not how things work in the real world. Sometimes your past catches up with you and bites you on the arse.

SF will not get much sympathy from anyone outside their own party. No matter how much crying and throwing of toys they do.

Grayson

realies wrote: »

FF FG & Lab have campaigned in NI on numerous occasions,albeit helping the alliance or SDLP in elections,The Green Party also has an All Ireland structure as have SF and the workers party.

Re the last sentence in your post it's obvious you don't know much about Irish political history.

They don't run as political parties is my point. The US republican & Democratic parties have also lent their support to initives up north, but that doesn't make them active political parties there.

As for your second point, it hurt soooo much. I've never seen anyone analyse a short post so insightfully. Thank you so much for putting me in my place. I really needed that plithy put down. I'm still amazed that you managed to divine how I've spent the last 35 years of my life completly ignoring newspapers and books.

Frank Black

Poor old SF/IRA.
They've failed to make any political headway despite the worst recession in living memory and they're wondering why.
I mean it can't be their fault, because nothing ever is, so who's fault is it?

If you answered 'The Media' - Congratulations, you have passed the 'I'm an unemployed barstool republican with very little understanding of economic events' test and are ready to move onto the next stage of your political development.

Good luck.

harryr711

Frank Black wrote: »

Poor old SF/IRA.
They've failed to make any political headway despite the worst recession in living memory and they're wondering why.
I mean it can't be their fault, because nothing ever is, so who's fault is it?

If you answered 'The Media' - Congratulations, you have passed the 'I'm an unemployed barstool republican with very little understanding of economic events' test and are ready to move onto the next stage of your political development.

Good luck.

I take it you've ignored the last election and all opinion polls since?

harryr711

timthumbni wrote: »

It's laughable when anyone thinks there is a media propaganda exercise against SF.

SF themselves are so expert in propaganda that Goebbels himself would blush.

If another political party leader was suspected of withholding important information about a child rape case as well as having been accused by some of having direct knowledge of a woman who was shot in the head and disappeared then I think the media may, justifiably, follow up on these claims.

Sf may want to airbrush some of their, and people very close to them, past dirty deeds but that's not how things work in the real world. Sometimes your past catches up with you and bites you on the arse.

SF will not get much sympathy from anyone outside their own party. No matter how much crying and throwing of toys they do.

Different media sources have different vested interests or different bias. I read an article yesterday by a former politician who's now a journalist which was full of bias, would you expect it to be any different? Have you ever wondered why Eamon Gilmore is never questioned about his past?

Even outside of politics, when my football club was being run into the ground, the media printed outright lies from the owner and claimed the fans wanted to destroy their club! (The editor was a drinking buddy of the former owner, who was eventually replaced by a supporters trust).

Frank Black

harryr711 wrote: »

I take it you've ignored the last election and all opinion polls since?

The last election?
You mean the one where SF went from being a marginal, economically illiteriate, morally dubious, political sideshow to become a marginal, economically illiteriate, morally dubious, political sideshow with a leader who tried to cover up child abuse?

Yep - great progress guys.

joe swanson

In his first post on boards, op describes himself as a 'young buck from tipperary' who hassnt been around long enough to understand michael lowrys legacy.

Yet he's since been well able to tell us all about why the dissapeared deserved to die and attempt to justify the murder of innocents.

That op, amongst other things is why decent people will not forgive so called republican. I am a real republican in that i abhor murder and violence and would eventually like a united irelanf.

However i will never support thugs who attempt to justify horrendous acts.


Shinnerbots and whatabouterer: are go.

Einhard

Sinn Fein and Republicans love playing this disingenuous double game. Anytime someone levels a legitimate criticism at them, they respond indignantly and crow about "reconciliation" and "moving on". Even when questions are raised about Gerry Adams, not on his Republican past, but rather about what he knew about his paedophile brother, and how he acted, the Republican sycophant close rank. Any query or question is rebutted with the usual shite talk about SF being persecuted. An organisation stuffed with members who either tortured and murdered others, or condoned such actions, now speaks about being persecuted when questions are asked of it?! It'd be hilarious if it weren't so demented.

But what really gets me about SF, and the Republican sheep that most follow them (not categorising all SF supporters in this way, mind), is their infinite capacity for double standers. Time and time again, those of us who ask legitimate questions are told to get with the programme and move on. We're undermining the peace effort by asking what exactly Adams knew about the murder of Jean McConville. We're living in the past when we mention the blowing to pieces of young boys and old women. Get over it we're told.

And yet, when it comes to British atrocities, there's no such movement forwards. Every allegation of British collusion, or unwarranted British violence is accompanied by a demand for investigations, tribunals- that no stone be left unturned until the truth is arrived at and the Brits exposed.

All of which should happen. But if these bloody hypocrites are seek to demand truth and transparency about British actions, then they can't seek to silence with innuendo those who want the same regarding SF and the IRA. If you want the truth about the Brits, then you need to put up about the skeletons in your own closet, and not huddle defensively every time a questions is asked. Otherwise, just shut up, and stop exposing your hypocrisy to the rest of us.

harryr711

Frank Black wrote: »

The last election?
You mean the one where SF went from being a marginal, economically illiteriate, morally dubious, political sideshow to become a marginal, economically illiteriate, morally dubious, political sideshow with a leader who tried to cover up child abuse?

Yep - great progress guys.

You mean the one where SF gained 3.5 times the number of seats they had in the previous Dáil? The election after which they gained further popularity in opinion polls and will be the second or third most popular party in the 26 counties in the next election? The party that had a costed budget unlike FF? Speaking of morally dubious, I'd love to hear what's on the Anglo tapes.

harryr711

Einhard wrote: »

Sinn Fein and Republicans love playing this disingenuous double game. Anytime someone levels a legitimate criticism at them, they respond indignantly and crow about "reconciliation" and "moving on". Even when questions are raised about Gerry Adams, not on his Republican past, but rather about what he knew about his paedophile brother, and how he acted, the Republican sycophant close rank. Any query or question is rebutted with the usual shite talk about SF being persecuted. An organisation stuffed with members who either tortured and murdered others, or condoned such actions, now speaks about being persecuted when questions are asked of it?! It'd be hilarious if it weren't so demented.

But what really gets me about SF, and the Republican sheep that most follow them (not categorising all SF supporters in this way, mind), is their infinite capacity for double standers. Time and time again, those of us who ask legitimate questions are told to get with the programme and move on. We're undermining the peace effort by asking what exactly Adams knew about the murder of Jean McConville. We're living in the past when we mention the blowing to pieces of young boys and old women. Get over it we're told.

And yet, when it comes to British atrocities, there's no such movement forwards. Every allegation of British collusion, or unwarranted British violence is accompanied by a demand for investigations, tribunals- that no stone be left unturned until the truth is arrived at and the Brits exposed.

All of which should happen. But if these bloody hypocrites are seek to demand truth and transparency about British actions, then they can't seek to silence with innuendo those who want the same regarding SF and the IRA. If you want the truth about the Brits, then you need to put up about the skeletons in your own closet, and not huddle defensively every time a questions is asked. Otherwise, just shut up, and stop exposing your hypocrisy to the rest of us.

Sinn Féin has repeatedly called for the establishment of an independent international truth commission, which will deal with all events, and require engagement from all sides. How is that one-sided? Why have neither the Irish or British governments moved forward with this? Are they waiting for people to die off first?

Mint Aero

Frank Black wrote: »

Poor old SF/IRA.
They've failed to make any political headway despite the worst recession in living memory and they're wondering why.

Nothing could be further from the truth :rolleyes:

Mint Aero

Great post OP, might help inform some of the posters here in AH. Won't hold my breath though :rolleyes:

Sunnyisland

Grayson wrote: »

They don't run as political parties is my point. The US republican & Democratic parties have also lent their support to initives up north, but that doesn't make them active political parties there.

As for your second point, it hurt soooo much. I've never seen anyone analyse a short post so insightfully. Thank you so much for putting me in my place. I really needed that plithy put down. I'm still amazed that you managed to divine how I've spent the last 35 years of my life completly ignoring newspapers and books.

So you ignore SF,green & workers party as all Ireland party's.

Today I am announcing that Fianna Fáil, the Republican Party, will now move to develop a strategy for organising on a thirty-two county basis.” Bertie ahern in2007,
Now they haven't had much success but it certainally contradicts your earlier post when you said Irish politcal parties don't campaign in the north for the same reason they don't campaigh in France, which is a ridiculous thing to say.

Don't know what books you been reading for 35 years but it's now maybe time for a change.

anncoates

I will not surrender the dark skies of my Cloud skin for the clear skies of a skin that will enable me to read the text of your OP.

NO SURRENDER.

harryr711

realies wrote: »

So you ignore SF,green & workers party as all Ireland party's.

Today I am announcing that Fianna Fáil, the Republican Party, will now move to develop a strategy for organising on a thirty-two county basis.” Bertie ahern in2007,
Now they haven't had much success but it certainally contradicts your earlier post when you said Irish politcal parties don't campaign in the north for the same reason they don't campaigh in France, which is a ridiculous thing to say.

Don't know what books you been reading for 35 years but it's now maybe time for a change.

FF would be better off pursuing that strategy than letting Noel Whelan loose with a pen.

Sunnyisland

joe swanson wrote: »

In his first post on boards, op describes himself as a 'young buck from tipperary' who hassnt been around long enough to understand michael lowrys legacy.

Yet he's since been well able to tell us all about why the dissapeared deserved to die and attempt to justify the murder of innocents.

That op, amongst other things is why decent people will not forgive so called republican. I am a real republican in that i abhor murder and violence and would eventually like a united irelanf.

However i will never support thugs who attempt to justify horrendous acts.


Shinnerbots and whatabouterer: are go.

Can you explain to me what you as a real republican is please ? Maybe a FF one ? A FG one ? Dev or Michael Collins, both who used extreme violence & murder and also Ingaged in horrendous acts in trying to get what they belived in.

The nationalist community in the north was left by its own all the way from partition, what did you expect when it finally erupted in a powder keg in 69,you reep what you sow is correct.

Of topic but it will be funny to see all above members commerate the 1916 rebellion in two years time,men with no mandate hardly any poplar support on the day yet are now treated as heros by present days goverments, very hypercritical if I may so.

porsche959

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

When Gerry Adams admits his role in the Murder of Jean McConville , and when he explains why he hid evidence of his paedophile brothers guilt for seven years then maybe SF can talk about reconciliation.

Evidence of British high level involvement in child abuse rings:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kincora_Boys%27_Home

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elm_Guest_House_child_abuse_scandal

I'll take you seriously when you demonstrate a similar level of outrage regarding these matters.

porsche959

timthumbni wrote: »

It's laughable when anyone thinks there is a media propaganda exercise against SF.

SF themselves are so expert in propaganda that Goebbels himself would blush.

If another political party leader was suspected of withholding important information about a child rape case as well as having been accused by some of having direct knowledge of a woman who was shot in the head and disappeared then I think the media may, justifiably, follow up on these claims.

Sf may want to airbrush some of their, and people very close to them, past dirty deeds but that's not how things work in the real world. Sometimes your past catches up with you and bites you on the arse.

SF will not get much sympathy from anyone outside their own party. No matter how much crying and throwing of toys they do.

They can't be that expert in propaganda if a substantial proportion of the population (if this forum is representative) takes the Indo's rantings as gospel! As they say in America no-one ever got poor by underestimating the intelligence of the public.

Fratton Fred

porsche959 wrote: »

Evidence of British high level involvement in child abuse rings:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kincora_Boys%27_Home

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elm_Guest_House_child_abuse_scandal

I'll take you seriously when you demonstrate a similar level of outrage regarding these matters.

So are we expecting any of those implicated to run for the Dail in the near future?