Road bikes with disc brakes

colm_gti

So, would one of these be turned away at a CI race, or will they be allowed in 2014?

c50

colm_gti wrote: »

So, would one of these be turned away at a CI race, or will they be allowed in 2014?

well i can see them being uci by end of 2014.
i think theyre a useless addition however. people were sceptical of electronic but that makes sense because it can go lighter easier and more precise but disc brakes to me seem to be just more braking power without the need for it. the only reason its used off road obviously being canti would get clogged with mud and if youre in a forest you will most likely need heavy braking now and then.

then again i cant see most of the irish commissaires having a go about it, except one of hand i can think that may have a go if hes feeling off form

wav1

colm_gti wrote: »

So, would one of these be turned away at a CI race, or will they be allowed in 2014?

Brakes are only for slowing you down.Needless things really,when you're trying to get up the road.

Brian?

Honestly, what need is there for them on a road bike?

They're ugly too, which is a cardinal sin for me.

Lumen

Brian? wrote: »

Honestly, what need is there for them on a road bike?

They're ugly too, which is a cardinal sin for me.

Andy Schleck says they'll help him descend in the wet.

petethedrummer

Here’s Andy in perfect Andy form. Check out his head position. And how it is different than Cunego’s. Plus, he has a ton of front brake on when his wheel is already committed to the corner. Man, no wonder he can’t descend worth a sh!t.
http://stevetilford.com/2013/10/30/shimanos-new-disc-road-brakes/

c50

yeah because every amateur race here in ireland is andy schleck :rolleyes:

Raam

I'll bet Andy descends better than most of us here.

Briando

The idea of disc breaks tempts me a little, wet breaking on rims is never quiet as good as I'd like. If you had a more consistent feel, it might be an option to consider should I ever upgrade a bike in the future.

531

You mean I can't race my new bike next year?

http://www.colnago.com/c59-disc/

Lumen

I have an open mind.

It is very difficult to make discs work well on a road bike for various reasons, so it's inevitable that the first generation will be quite poor.

Brian?

Raam wrote: »

I'll bet Andy descends better than most of us here.

I'd take that bet. The lines he takes through corners are terrible, he brakes way too early and he completely lacks bravery . I'm also a lot heavier than him so he wouldn't stand a chance .

Brian?

Lumen wrote: »

Andy Schleck says they'll help him descend in the wet.

He's wrong. It'll make him worse because he'll just slow down more.

What he needs is a good talking to from Seán Kelly

fat bloke

I'd be interested in having a go, see how they work. Thing is, my brakes are already well capable of overwhelming the tires' adhesion to the road. On a wet day I'd love more stopping power, I don't need more locking-up-the-front-and-hitting-the-deck power

outfox

I had hydraulic disc brakes on my last bike (hybrid). They were astounding in the wet. No other brakes compare, and IMO they are worth the extra weight for a winter bike. But I've heard the non-hydraulic disc brakes on CX bikes are poor, and not worth the weight.
That Colnago is the first CX bike I've seen with hydraulic. Can can find some reviews somewhere?

ednwireland

I would hate to see the damage done in a bunch crash of disc braked bikes. there's some nasty cuts on the Internet from disc brakes

CramCycle

Brian? wrote: »

I'd take that bet. The lines he takes through corners are terrible, he brakes way too early and he completely lacks bravery . I'm also a lot heavier than him so he wouldn't stand a chance .

If he has disc brakes and we had a rolling start, I too would give evens on myself.

Lumen

Brian? wrote: »

I'd take that bet. The lines he takes through corners are terrible, he brakes way too early and he completely lacks bravery

Andy doesn't lack bravery. Bravery is attempting to keep up on a wet descent with people who have more skill. If he lacked bravery he'd quit.

The reason he's touching the levers in the corner is because he knows there's a chance he'll have to straighten up and and haul them on after cocking up the line.

The "am I faster at descending than Andy" question is easily answered with some TdF recordings and Strava. You might want to bring an ambulance. :-)

seamus

ednwireland wrote: »

I would hate to see the damage done in a bunch crash of disc braked bikes. there's some nasty cuts on the Internet from disc brakes

I'd be more concerned about the damage done by spokes or handlebars tbh. Not to mention hitting the road
Discs aren't that narrow, and you need to be hit in a very unfortunate way to get struck with the leading edge of a disc. They're close to the wheel and inside the frame. MTB discs also come in large rotor sizes and crazy rotor designs* which make it more likely to cause an injury than road discs.

Disc brakes are about control and consistency. Hydraulic discs work in practically all conditions with the same power and consistency. They also engage and release much more cleanly and quickly than calipers, which in a descent means precious milliseconds.

From the amateur's point of view, disc brakes mean that your wheel rims never wear out, and your brakes don't need to be tweaked every now and again. Fitting new pads and replacing rotors is cheap and easy.

They will come, eventually. Once cleared for use by UCI, you'll start to see them as an option on high-spec bikes and within a couple of years it won't even be possible to get Dura-Ace or Red calipers any more.

ashleey

Except that SRAM are currently running a recall of their hydraulic brakes. I think it's the rim version but who knows what's gone wrong.
The best tool I have bought recently is the Tacx shoe tuner http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/mobile/tacx-brake-shoe-tuner/rp-prod75821

Since then I haven't had to constantly adjust my brakes. If the pads aren't lined up perfectly then the rim brake moves slightly every time you brake.

Raam

Brian? wrote: »

I'd take that bet. The lines he takes through corners are terrible, he brakes way too early and he completely lacks bravery . I'm also a lot heavier than him so he wouldn't stand a chance .

Bold statement. I still think that I'll go with the seasoned pro being a better descender than some bloke on boards.ie. Unless your other account is Tutschel of course.

seamus

ashleey wrote: »

Except that SRAM are currently running a recall of their hydraulic brakes. I think it's the rim version but who knows what's gone wrong.

Yeah, that's the hydraulic rim brakes. They never really took off in any major way, even in mountain biking.
They always had a bit of a loyal fanbase, but very few pros or reviewers have ever recommended them as must-have improvements over traditional rim brakes.

Hydraulic rim brakes I think have only ever appeared on bicycles, so the technology has always been relatively new. Disc brakes by comparison have been in use for over 100 years, so putting them on bicycles is simply scaling down well tried and tested technology. The challenges and physics in disc brakes are very well understood, not so much with hydraulic rim brakes. Or at the very least the tech in the latter hasn't undergone billions of km of road testing.

Trials riders love them though because you get really clean and instant stopping but without a rotor to clang off rocks and things.

hypersonic

I welcome disc on road bikes, yes they are ugly but they work. I've recently changed back from a road bike with a front disc to a road bike with rim brakes and the complete lack of bite on cool and wet days is alarming.
100 times of of 100 I could take a disc brake equipped road bike.

Lumen

ashleey wrote: »

Except that SRAM are currently running a recall of their hydraulic brakes. I think it's the rim version but who knows what's gone wrong.

And Shimano recalled their road mechanical disc calipers:

http://road.cc/content/news/90908-shimano-recall-road-mechanical-disc-callipers

CramCycle

Lumen wrote: »

The "am I faster at descending than Andy" question is easily answered with some TdF recordings and Strava. You might want to bring an ambulance. :-)

Raam wrote: »

Bold statement. I still think that I'll go with the seasoned pro being a better descender than some bloke on boards.ie. Unless your other account is Tutschel of course.

Awww, no one has a sense of humour anymore

Raam

CramCycle wrote: »

Awww, no one has a sense of humour anymore

Aww, no one can handle being wrong anymore.

rollingscone

Raam wrote: »

Aww, no one can handle being wrong anymore.

This.

The old Irish humour defence, "Ah yeah we murdered everyone in the building and defiled the corpses, but sure it was only a bit of craic! And sure hadn't we drink taken."

I recall someone mentioning problems with heat dissipation using discs on long descents? Probably not much of an issue here in Stumpy Hillock Island but surely it's going to be problematic for holidays in the alps?

Budawanny

rollingscone wrote: »

This.

The old Irish humour defence, "Ah yeah we murdered everyone in the building and defiled the corpses, but sure it was only a bit of craic! And sure hadn't we drink taken."

I recall someone mentioning problems with heat dissipation using discs on long descents? Probably not much of an issue here in Stumpy Hillock Island but surely it's going to be problematic for holidays in the alps?

you can boil brake fluid here too. Ask any mountain biker. boiling mineral oil and air getting in the brakes. happens regularly. loosing power, brakes going soggy, these are all symptoms of over heating brakes. a good spin round Ballinastoe could do that that on its own.

nilhg

This guy seems to like the (hydraulic) disks. Interesting that UCI seem to want to keep disk and rim breaks separate in the peloton, this would suggest that disks won't feature in road races till 2017.

ashleey

Lumen wrote: »

And Shimano recalled their road mechanical disc calipers:

http://road.cc/content/news/90908-shimano-recall-road-mechanical-disc-callipers

Let's face it though we all crave a bit of new tech. A new road bike with hydraulic discs and di2 would be on everyone's Christmas list. Wether we need it or not isn't the question.

GoTilUBlow

They are a solution to a problem that does not exist, for the sake of marketing. End Of.

Lumen

GoTilUBlow wrote: »

They are a solution to a problem that does not exist, for the sake of marketing. End Of.

Which problem does not exist?

Budawanny

one fingered braking is a lot of fun though

petethedrummer

Raam wrote: »

Bold statement. I still think that I'll go with the seasoned pro being a better descender than some bloke on boards.ie.

If I had 1/100th the practise he's had. I'd put some decent money on myself.

petethedrummer

I don't mind if they become legal, they won't be going on my bike. If other people want to make their bikes fugly that's their choice.

petethedrummer

Lumen wrote: »

Which problem does not exist?

The need for disc brakes on road bikes!

Lumen

petethedrummer wrote: »

The need for disc brakes on road bikes!

Ah come on, play nicely. End of.

Tenzor07

How can anyone say disc brakes are ugly on a roadbike?

seamus

petethedrummer wrote: »

The need for disc brakes on road bikes!

Should probably ditch your gears, clipless pedals and drops bar so. You don't need them, right?

Tenzor07 wrote: »

How can anyone say disc brakes are ugly on a roadbike?

Agreed, I think bikes look much slicker with discs rather than this big ugly thing hovering out over the tyre.

petethedrummer

seamus wrote: »

Should probably ditch your gears, clipless pedals and drops bar so. You don't need them, right?

It's not a question of need. These things are ugly.

petethedrummer

Tenzor07 wrote: »

How can anyone say disc brakes are ugly on a roadbike?

By making them smaller and harder to see, yes they have been made less ugly. But you'll need a huge disc and a greatly beefed up fork if you wan't to use them going for down a hill.

Tenzor07

petethedrummer wrote: »

By making them smaller and harder to see, yes they have been made less ugly. But you'll need a huge disc and a greatly beefed up fork if you wan't to use them going for down a hill.

140mm discs are just right for road bikes, certainly would not need any bigger... Only reason for bigger brakes would be in the case of a heavier bike, such as a full suss MTB which would generate more heat on descents...

As on the Giant TCX range, the front fork has a bolt-tru axle, which is great, gets rid of any flex from having disc brakes..

Lumen

petethedrummer wrote: »

By making them smaller and harder to see, yes they have been made less ugly. But you'll need a huge disc and a greatly beefed up fork if you wan't to use them going for down a hill.

http://roadcyclinguk.com/gear/shimano-r785-hydraulic-disc-brake-for-road-bikes-first-ride.html

"...but bike manufacturers will need to commit to the development of new standards for the mounting of the front caliper before the 140mm rotor can be used. Shimano are confident that brake temperatures can be controlled with still smaller discs, and foresee a 130mm rotor in the not too distant future."

I expect it's just (!) a case of getting rid of the heat without relying on a large rotor to dissipate it.

Alloy forks might be stiff and conductive enough :pac:

Brian?

Raam wrote: »

Bold statement. I still think that I'll go with the seasoned pro being a better descender than some bloke on boards.ie. Unless your other account is Tutschel of course.

I love a bold statement of prowess on the internet.

Tenzor07

Well, from an Irish point of view, I don't think we have any long enough descents to worry too much about heat dissipation on discs..
And sure the Pro's will probably have carbon fiber discs anyways!

Brian?

Lumen wrote: »

Andy doesn't lack bravery. Bravery is attempting to keep up on a wet descent with people who have more skill. If he lacked bravery he'd quit.

That's a very strange definition of bravery. To clarify, he lacks the bravery of a good descender like Valverde or Contador. He definitely hasn't the balls of Sagan, Bossan-Hagen etc. who are proper lunatic descenders. But yes he has the bravery not to completely give up, go home and get 6 pet cats.

Happy?

The reason he's touching the levers in the corner is because he knows there's a chance he'll have to straighten up and and haul them on after cocking up the line.

In other words, he's bad at descending so he breaks too much.

The "am I faster at descending than Andy" question is easily answered with some TdF recordings and Strava. You might want to bring an ambulance. :-)

I know that was tongue in check but it wouldn't be fair. It'd have to be solo runs, he's definitely faster following Contador than I am alone.

petethedrummer

Tenzor07 wrote: »

140mm discs are just right for road bikes, certainly would not need any bigger... Only reason for bigger brakes would be in the case of a heavier bike, such as a full suss MTB which would generate more heat on descents...

weight of bike + weight of rider + speed(which i would guess is generally higher for longer while descending on a road bike) + time spent pulling the brake.

+ if they try to make these things aerodynamic there will be less air flow across them, but I imagine that would have a minor impact.

GoTilUBlow

Pros & Cons

Disc Brakes - Heavier, Less Aero, Finicky adjustment, Require Bleeding, prone to excessive wear, may be dodgy in a peleton accident (but haven't seen evidence yet)

Rim Brakes - Less power in the wet, but usually have enough

So, why do we need discs exactly - modulation? plenty there already unless you have claws.

Overheating on either should not be an issue unless you intend on braking the whole way down the hill instead of just before the corners, like Andy and the pros do

I would say the reason we need disc brakes is the same reason we need 11 gears and a new version of a group set every year now. Marketing.

Raam

mmm, yes.

Tenzor07

Let's see what the pro-peleton makes of disc brakes, I am sure the design will become "more aero" and lighter...

rollingscone

Raam wrote: »

mmm, yes.

I'm no Party Bus conductor, but I'm pretty sure that's not ugly.