Restoring, charging unused battery

cerastes

Im trying to revive a battery, bike hasnt been in use for a while, I should have topped the battery up as I have a charger, but I never got around to it.
looking at the battery which I never did before, I was surprised that it is a 12volt, not 6volt.
At first I tried to turn the bike over and although the N light was on, it looked low, nothing happened which I expected. I checked the voltage and it was 9.5volts, so I'm just wondering is it borked? or am I going to need a new battery, I put the charger on for a few hours and the voltage was at 11.83volts when I put it on a shelf, Im wondering if it will fall off rapidly overnight or if some use will help keep it alive. I dont want to be stuck if it wont start the bike.

Im now also thinking of directly connecting a 12volt socket into the battery for a gps, I could have a fuse inline, I dont think I want to start pulling out wiring to connect it into the ignition as I dont think a gps will draw much power? Im just going to use a cheap car-gps and stick it in a tank bag, any bike ones were too pricey.

Cycling Dumbasses

<snip>

Unhelpful comment snipped.

cerastes

hydrogen fumes

Cycling Dumbasses

That would explain the 11.83 volts.

cerastes

Cycling Dumbasses wrote: »

That would explain the 11.83 volts.

Well I did it outside, not sure if it was kaput, so in case it exploded or something, didnt want fireworks in the house.
12v battery, was 9.5v had a look when I took it off charge which was supposed to be maintenance charge 11.83,
what kind of voltage should be on a good battery

is it borked?

Cycling Dumbasses

Is your bike a honda 50?

cerastes

Cycling Dumbasses wrote: »

Is your bike a honda 50?

This might have been an interesting conversation if I was drinking too, but I was posting this looking for answers and no its not, just looking for some advice about the bike battery.

Cycling Dumbasses

cerastes wrote: »

This might have been an interesting conversation if I was drinking too, but I was posting this looking for answers and no its not, just looking for some advice about the bike battery.

Why did you mention 6 volt

cerastes

Cycling Dumbasses wrote: »

Why did you mention 6 volt

I assumed bike batteries were 6v, mine as I said in the original post is a 12v
I never had to check the battery when bike was in use, even though I'd taken the cover off to check the terminals, it was always good, there are no voltage label easily visible with the battery fitted.

Night

Cedrus

cerastes wrote: »

Im trying to revive a battery, bike hasnt been in use for a while, I should have topped the battery up as I have a charger, but I never got around to it.
looking at the battery which I never did before, I was surprised that it is a 12volt, not 6volt.
At first I tried to turn the bike over and although the N light was on, it looked low, nothing happened which I expected. I checked the voltage and it was 9.5volts, so I'm just wondering is it borked? or am I going to need a new battery, I put the charger on for a few hours and the voltage was at 11.83volts when I put it on a shelf, Im wondering if it will fall off rapidly overnight or if some use will help keep it alive. I dont want to be stuck if it wont start the bike.

Im now also thinking of directly connecting a 12volt socket into the battery for a gps, I could have a fuse inline, I dont think I want to start pulling out wiring to connect it into the ignition as I dont think a gps will draw much power? Im just going to use a cheap car-gps and stick it in a tank bag, any bike ones were too pricey.

I'm surprised you've found the battery if you think that they're 6v, unless it's a classic/vintage, 6v is long gone.

11.8v on the charger means the battery is sh@gged, you need to be seeing 13.8v to charge a 12v battery, at a pinch you might get it charged enough to get to a bike shop, but don't turn off the ignition before you know they have a battery for you.

I trust the GPS question is a separate issue, I'd wire it separately from the ignition, can't see any reason to put it though the ignition in the first place, but it will need a fuse as you recognise, and a switch. If you don't want to pay for a bike standard, don't bother and get a good map instead. The wrong kit will always be the wrong kit.

Cycling Dumbasses

cerastes wrote: »

I assumed bike batteries were 6v, mine as I said in the original post is a 12v
I never had to check the battery when bike was in use, even though I'd taken the cover off to check the terminals, it was always good, there are no voltage label easily visible with the battery fitted.

Night

Assumption is the mother of all f**k ups.

cerastes

Cedrus wrote: »

I'm surprised you've found the battery if you think that they're 6v, unless it's a classic/vintage, 6v is long gone.

11.8v on the charger means the battery is sh@gged, you need to be seeing 13.8v to charge a 12v battery, at a pinch you might get it charged enough to get to a bike shop, but don't turn off the ignition before you know they have a battery for you.

I trust the GPS question is a separate issue, I'd wire it separately from the ignition, can't see any reason to put it though the ignition in the first place, but it will need a fuse as you recognise, and a switch. If you don't want to pay for a bike standard, don't bother and get a good map instead. The wrong kit will always be the wrong kit.

Thanks for the information, the 11.8 volts was when I disconnected the charger, not charging and not on the bike. I am well able to find my way around stuff, I just dont have much experience on bikes, I assumed the battery was 6v, thats all, I can locate/remove/refit stuff, its a small issue, soon as I saw the top of the battery, I could see the label with 12v marking. I'd expect 13.8 volts charging from a car battery and I wasnt sure if I was to expect the same thing on a bike or what Id expect to see idle. Ive read elsewhere that low battery voltage can affect the igniton components on bikes?
I didnt realise people would feel so strongly about battery voltage.

Cycling Dumbasses

Assumption is the mother of all f**k ups

cerastes

Cycling Dumbasses wrote: »

Assumption is the mother of all f**k ups

Indeed, but theres a bit of a difference assuming someone else on the road is or isnt going to do something, to thinking a battery is 6v and taking it out and realising it is 12v.
But thanks for the helpful friendly replies, In future I'll know to only ask these questions when the dayshift is on.

Cedrus

.

Cycling Dumbasses

cerastes wrote: »

Indeed, but theres a bit of a difference assuming someone else on the road is or isnt going to do something, to thinking a battery is 6v and taking it out and realising it is 12v.
But thanks for the helpful friendly replies, In future I'll know to only ask these questions when the dayshift is on.

No prob, ill assume it be 12 volts and 11. what ever it is be unacceptable,
6 volts normally old bikes, slan abhaile.

serious3

leave the battery on a longer charge, overnight or 12hrs. is it full of liquid or is it a gel type? if its a lead acid (liquid) then google alka seltzer battery restore. 12.6-12.8v after its been off charge for an hour and not connected and it should be ok

cantdecide

I'm going to actually do it. I'm going to hijack the thread!! Only because I'm having the very same problems at the moment.

I had a new battery fitted to my RSV Mille when I bought the bike at the start of May. It was a budget Dynavolt battery that I probably wouldn't have put in myself but it was part of the deal. I haven't been keeping it on a charger as I thought regular use would keep it topped up.

It wouldn't start not too long ago. It almost did a couple of times but then flooded and died. I have had suspicions about the charging system. I decided to put it on charge and keep it on charge from now (as it's always a good idea for a big twin, by all accounts).

Nevertheless, I borrowed my brother's Halfords charger which has car/ bike settings as well as standard/ sealed option. It has never gotten to the "Ready and maintaining" mode and continues to charge continuously.

I measured the voltages and get 12.2V with the engine off. With the engine running at idle, I'm getting around 13.6V but it doesn't really increase when you bring the revs up to 5k rpm. I understand that it should be something in the region of 14- 14.5V when the revs are up. To me, it seems like a weak battery and a weak current. Nothing obviously wrong but all a bit too lacklustre for comfort.

So maybe both the charging system and the battery are weak? I've heard about a duff regulator/ rectifier borking batteries.

The problem with this kind of problem is that you can adjust your behaviour slightly (by keeping the battery on a trickle charger for example) and your problem won't be a problem any more. You can buy a shiny new battery and it won't cause a problem for, in my case about six months, and lo and behold, your problem's a problem again. All will appear to be well as long as you don't challenge the charging system by taking the bike away for a weekend where you can't charge the battery for example or using a battery that isn't a new, premium quality one. In the case of the Mille, you end up cranking and cranking the bike to get it to go and you bork the starter which is another known soft point and that's something approaching a grand, I understand.

blade1

My bike has the voltage on display when I turn the key.
12.2v before I fire her up and 14.4v after.
So I'm guessing you'd want around 12v to start her.

visual

Fully charge lead acid battery with no load nothing connected should read 12.6 volts 24hours after being fully charged.

two wheels good

A standard car battery charger isn't suitable for a moto battery - charging rate is too high. Best to use a tricke charger overnight.

Reminder: You can jump-start the bike from a car battery. Just be careful that the leads don't accidentally short on the frame in the confined space.

cerastes

serious3 wrote: »

leave the battery on a longer charge, overnight or 12hrs. is it full of liquid or is it a gel type? if its a lead acid (liquid) then google alka seltzer battery restore. 12.6-12.8v after its been off charge for an hour and not connected and it should be ok

oK, Thanks for that information, It is a lead acid battery, says its sealed but it looks like there is a cap that could be removed. I looked up the battery restore stuff you mentioned, interesting,hadnt come across that before.
I tested it today an hour or so ago, it was cold in the shed so thought this might have affected it, didnt drop much, 11.3v, but it still wouldnt start the bike, but there was a buzzing noise, sounded like a relay not the starter solenoid. I then put it back on charge and its now above 12volts, its actually pushing up above that, to 15-16volt briefly then sitting at 12.2 and repeating. Going by the advice below I should leave it for longer. Thanks

two wheels good wrote: »

A standard car battery charger isn't suitable for a moto battery - charging rate is too high. Best to use a tricke charger overnight.

Reminder: You can jump-start the bike from a car battery. Just be careful that the leads don't accidentally short on the frame in the confined space.

The charger has a symbol for a bike and a car (the bike is beside a 6v marking and the car a 12v one), it says it has a maintenance facility and can restore batteries, but doesnt say how long to leave them on for, I just didnt want to replace the battery if its possible to restore it by some technique someone has come across, I'll leave it on overnight and see how it responds, Im charging it outside in a sheltered place, I wouldnt charge a battery in the house.

Originally, I was going to ask about jumping it off a a rechargeable engine starter (basically a 12v battery itself) so it seems that would be possible, I was trying to compare the Ah ratings on the battery and the rechargeable starter and it seems higher than the bike battery could take.
Given the bike battery was dead, I wanted to try the battery charger on it first any, just to see if it was able to help restore the battery. I know its sulphation that causes the problem from failure to keep the battery in good condition when not in use, so me foolishly not topping the battery up occasionally.

Failing this, I'll come back to ask where to get a battery for an ok price, preferably from a bricks and mortar shop.

Thanks for the advice from everyone

Del2005

cerastes wrote: »

oK, Thanks for that information, It is a lead acid battery, says its sealed but it looks like there is a cap that could be removed. I looked up the battery restore stuff you mentioned, interesting,hadnt come across that before.
I tested it today an hour or so ago, it was cold in the shed so thought this might have affected it, didnt drop much, 11.3v, but it still wouldnt start the bike, but there was a buzzing noise, sounded like a relay not the starter solenoid. I then put it back on charge and its now above 12volts, its actually pushing up above that, to 15-16volt briefly then sitting at 12.2 and repeating. Going by the advice below I should leave it for longer. Thanks



The charger has a symbol for a bike and a car (the bike is beside a 6v marking and the car a 12v one), it says it has a maintenance facility and can restore batteries, but doesnt say how long to leave them on for, I just didnt want to replace the battery if its possible to restore it by some technique someone has come across, I'll leave it on overnight and see how it responds, Im charging it outside in a sheltered place, I wouldnt charge a battery in the house.

Originally, I was going to ask about jumping it off a a rechargeable engine starter (basically a 12v battery itself) so it seems that would be possible, I was trying to compare the Ah ratings on the battery and the rechargeable starter and it seems higher than the bike battery could take.
Given the bike battery was dead, I wanted to try the battery charger on it first any, just to see if it was able to help restore the battery. I know its sulphation that causes the problem from failure to keep the battery in good condition when not in use, so me foolishly not topping the battery up occasionally.

Failing this, I'll come back to ask where to get a battery for an ok price, preferably from a bricks and mortar shop.

Thanks for the advice from everyone

What voltage is the charger putting out on the bike setting? If it's 6V it won't be charging the battery. How old is the charger?

cerastes

Del2005 wrote: »

What voltage is the charger putting out on the bike setting? If it's 6V it won't be charging the battery. How old is the charger?

It has a 6v setting, and a 12v setting for use with bike and car batteries.
I was just checking the voltage connected to the charger today and its 12+ and then cycles up to 16 momentarily then back to 12 and the battery unconnected yesterday it was 11.8, and was 11.3 or so when I checked it on the shelf where I left it overnight, it was still over about 10.5v or so, after I tried to start the bike a few times, but I decided to charge seperately from the bike and outside, Im going to leave it charging for now so wont be able to check the voltage when its unconnected until the morning.
you can select the charge type but it also says it automatically detects the voltage, its only a few years old.

cerastes

cantdecide wrote: »

I'm going to actually do it. I'm going to hijack the thread!! Only because I'm having the very same problems at the moment.

I had a new battery fitted to my RSV Mille when I bought the bike at the start of May. It was a budget Dynavolt battery that I probably wouldn't have put in myself but it was part of the deal. I haven't been keeping it on a charger as I thought regular use would keep it topped up.

It wouldn't start not too long ago. It almost did a couple of times but then flooded and died. I have had suspicions about the charging system. I decided to put it on charge and keep it on charge from now (as it's always a good idea for a big twin, by all accounts).

Nevertheless, I borrowed my brother's Halfords charger which has car/ bike settings as well as standard/ sealed option. It has never gotten to the "Ready and maintaining" mode and continues to charge continuously.

I measured the voltages and get 12.2V with the engine off. With the engine running at idle, I'm getting around 13.6V but it doesn't really increase when you bring the revs up to 5k rpm. I understand that it should be something in the region of 14- 14.5V when the revs are up. To me, it seems like a weak battery and a weak current. Nothing obviously wrong but all a bit too lacklustre for comfort.

So maybe both the charging system and the battery are weak? I've heard about a duff regulator/ rectifier borking batteries.

The problem with this kind of problem is that you can adjust your behaviour slightly (by keeping the battery on a trickle charger for example) and your problem won't be a problem any more. You can buy a shiny new battery and it won't cause a problem for, in my case about six months, and lo and behold, your problem's a problem again. All will appear to be well as long as you don't challenge the charging system by taking the bike away for a weekend where you can't charge the battery for example or using a battery that isn't a new, premium quality one. In the case of the Mille, you end up cranking and cranking the bike to get it to go and you bork the starter which is another known soft point and that's something approaching a grand, I understand.

By all means do, the solution to your problem could be mine too or vice versa

blade1 wrote: »

My bike has the voltage on display when I turn the key.
12.2v before I fire her up and 14.4v after.
So I'm guessing you'd want around 12v to start her.

Posh baxtard

CJhaughey

How many amps does the charger put out?
For a bike battery you want no more than 1.5amps, any more than this will quickly overheat a battery and risks warping the plates.
Forget the voltage 12v is 12v, the important part is the amperage output.

cerastes

CJhaughey wrote: »

How many amps does the charger put out?
For a bike battery you want no more than 1.5amps, any more than this will quickly overheat a battery and risks warping the plates.
Forget the voltage 12v is 12v, the important part is the amperage output.

it says up to 14 Amp hour

two wheels good

cerastes wrote: »

it says up to 14 Amp hour

The charger may be smart enough to adjust the charging rate to suit the capacity of the battery. But the car symbol next to 12V makes me suspicious. (If you had a meter you could measure it.)

If you can't get your hands on a trickle charger and if the bike is roadworthy I'm back to the notion of jump-starting it and taking it for a run to charge the battery.
Whereabouts are you?

cerastes

two wheels good wrote: »

The charger may be smart enough to adjust the charging rate to suit the capacity of the battery. But the car symbol next to 12V makes me suspicious. (If you had a meter you could measure it.)

If you can't get your hands on a trickle charger and if the bike is roadworthy I'm back to the notion of jump-starting it and taking it for a run to charge the battery.
Whereabouts are you?

It might alter the setting as it says it detects the battery voltage?? for >14 amp hour.
Now this bit Im not certain, I think to measure amperage I have to just connect both ends of the leads to both ends of the meter, in other words, inline.

Im in west dublin, I have a charge starter for a car, I think I can use that, I have jump leads and could jump it off the car but I think the charge starter is easier. Just not sure if the battery will recharge off the bike anymore, also, I dont have insurance so taking it for a spin is out.
I am trying to get it ready for using.

two wheels good

cerastes wrote: »

It might alter the setting as it says it detects the battery voltage?? for >14 amp hour.
Now this bit Im not certain, I think to measure amperage I have to just connect both ends of the leads to both ends of the meter, in other words, inline.

Im in west dublin, I have a charge starter for a car, I think I can use that, I have jump leads and could jump it off the car but I think the charge starter is easier. Just not sure if the battery will recharge off the bike anymore, also, I dont have insurance so taking it for a spin is out.
I am trying to get it ready for using.

Nowhere near me, alas.
Yes, meter in series. Insert meter lead in the Amp socket (10A ?) of the meter. Then red meter probe to red charger lead, black meter probe to +ve battery terminal.

I'd prefer to use the car battery rather than the portable starter pack - unless I could read the instructions for reassurance. Some of those starters can act as fast chargers too- i.e at higher current.
(I predict you'll be buying a new battery anyway but we can't throw in towel now! )

cerastes

two wheels good wrote: »

Nowhere near me, alas.
Yes, meter in series. Insert meter lead in the Amp socket (10A ?) of the meter. Then red meter probe to red charger lead, black meter probe to +ve battery terminal.

I'd prefer to use the car battery rather than the portable starter pack - unless I could read the instructions for reassurance. Some of those starters can act as fast chargers too- i.e at higher current.
(I predict you'll be buying a new battery anyway but we can't throw in towel now! )

Yes I think I will be buying a new battery,
*Im going to give it a last go though, at this stage, even if it works, Id be concerned about relying on it, if I can get it going I'll see how the charge stays,

where is a good place to buy a battery anyone?
Im thinking bricks and mortar but cost is a factor, so as cheap as possible for as good a battery as possible, so maybe online.

CJhaughey

cerastes wrote: »

Yes I think I will be buying a new battery,
*Im going to give it a last go though, at this stage, even if it works, Id be concerned about relying on it, if I can get it going I'll see how the charge stays,

where is a good place to buy a battery anyone?
Im thinking bricks and mortar but cost is a factor, so as cheap as possible for as good a battery as possible, so maybe online.

Look around for a MotoBatt battery, easy to spot they are yellow.
AGM batteries and more resistant to self discharge then the standard lead acid batteries.
Lots of shops sell them.

cerastes

CJhaughey wrote: »

Look around for a MotoBatt battery, easy to spot they are yellow.
AGM batteries and more resistant to self discharge then the standard lead acid batteries.
Lots of shops sell them.

any idea what it will cost me for a bike battery, is there much of a range of price?

CJhaughey

The last MotoBatt I got was a MTX9 and I think it was around 60-70 or so.
I think they are very reasonable pricewise compared to a basic sealed lead acid.

cerastes

CJhaughey wrote: »

The last MotoBatt I got was a MTX9 and I think it was around 60-70 or so.
I think they are very reasonable pricewise compared to a basic sealed lead acid.

Mine is a lead acid, it was fine when it was in use, but Im not sure how much cheaper they'd be
its definitely a replacement, just not coming back to life.

CJhaughey

cerastes wrote: »

Mine is a lead acid, it was fine when it was in use, but Im not sure how much cheaper they'd be
its definitely a replacement, just not coming back to life.

Batteries left dead for a day or two can be unrecoverable.
I also bought a good charger, already had a Optimate but bought a Procharger from Louis as well. It does Lithium Ion as well as SLA, AGM etc.
It can recover some batteries but they'll never be 100% again.

Fr Dougal

CJhaughey wrote: »

Batteries left dead for a day or two can be unrecoverable..

On a previous bike I had heatd grips wired direct to the battery. I went away on two weeks holiday to spain and left the grips switched on by accident. Came home and not a peep out of it, not even a neutral light. Charged it overnight, got lights but not enough to start it. Then left it on charge for 2 days solid and it worked fine, used the bike every day and sold it over a year later with the same battery.
So try leaving it on charge for a couple of days.

CJhaughey

Fr Dougal wrote: »

On a previous bike I had heatd grips wired direct to the battery. I went away on two weeks holiday to spain and left the grips switched on by accident. Came home and not a peep out of it, not even a neutral light. Charged it overnight, got lights but not enough to start it. Then left it on charge for 2 days solid and it worked fine, used the bike every day and sold it over a year later with the same battery.
So try leaving it on charge for a couple of days.

I have two battery chargers now, both can be left connected for a long time with no ill effects, generally I find that if batteries are used regularly they last a lot longer than ones that aren't used regularly.
I highly recommend Optimate chargers, I have mine for years now and it still works well.
I got the Louis Procharger XL as well as I needed one for the car that was intelligent and I figured that as it does LiPo and LiIon that it should future proof me somewhat...

blade1

Anyone used those Oxford solar chargers?
Are they any good?

Alfonzito

Probably worth leaving the battery on a charger overnight or longer to see if the voltage will increase to 13.5 or so. If it still can't turn the starter over probably time to think about buying a new one. There are plenty of battery revival vids on you tube, but expert advice is that in the best circumstance, they can only get a battery back to about 80% power and but sometimes they don't work at all.