How to help?

otnomart

Please give me your views, as I don't know what to think
We are both in our late thirties, together for 3 months.
Live in different towns, so only see each other at the week-end.
My boyfr started acting "strange" a few weeks ago.
He is very stressed for different reasons (so am I, by way) and I have been supportive (or trying to, to the best of my abilities).
I saw him being very unwell in several nights (closest thing I have ever seen, to an epileptic attack: convulsions, palpitations).
I care deeply about him and told him he should get help.
He refused, and since then I can not do anything right.
He is constantly emailing/texting me about all the things that are wrong in his life.
I try to help, and/or to suggest solutions, and also to empathise.
But.
One day he gets upset because I do not reply to his emails/messages straight away.
Then, he says I am "getting under his feet" , even when it is a simple text or call to reply and ask him how he is.
He practically says: he sees no point in living and there is nothing I can do for him.
He also spoke about suicide a lot (quite graphically, like he has it all worked out)
He says he does not talk to anyone else about this, not to his parents, sibling, mates.
Yet, he refused my suggestion to go and see the GP about these attacks, and eventually be referred to a therapist.
He says there is no point in living, and that is that.
I have not spoken to anyone about this.
He is spending the week-end with a mate (which i don't know, yet, but sounds like a sensible guy) and I know there will be a lot of drinking, and I am afraid he will have another attack.
What shall I do?
Please let me know what you think

Merkin

This man is quite clearly both mentally unwell and unstable and really shouldn't be in a relationship at all. It's evident he needs professional help and you have to remember that you are not his nurse. How emotionally involved are you? I'd be inclined to terminate the relationship and urge him to seek professional help while telling his family that he is talking about committing suicide. If you loved him and were with him a long time then it would be a different story but this is very early days and he clearly shouldn't be in a relationship at all.

otnomart

Thanks for your reply.
I don't know his family, unfortunately.
I don't know his friends, either. In fact, he says he has no friends anymore, just colleagues and former colleagues he is friendly with.
He says that his parents know he has always been a "pessimist"
But it is to me, when we wakes up, that says: "I wish I would never wake up again, I should kill myself" (and he tells me how he plans to do it. However, he says he has never tried it before)
This week-end he is with a former colleague, he is texting me from the town they are in, I know they will be drinking. Hopefully, not too much, as his mate has to work tomorrow.
I am emotionally involved, yes.
If I left him, I would feel devastated. And guilty, for not have tried to make this work.
He told me about his past relationships.
Two ladies before me, this year. Each left him after three months.
He would not tell me the reason, only let it slip that the last one told him he was "too emotional"
Last year, short term relationships with ladies he met online.
If I leave him, I can not warn his family because I do not know them.
Is there anything else I can do? We don't live in IE, by the way (still in the EU, though)

Merkin

Why would you feel guilty for not trying to make it work if you left him? You shouldn't have to try to make something work after just three short months. This is the honeymoon period but for you, this sounds to be the furthest thing from it. You've also referenced him drinking, does he have a drink problem on top of everything else? Also, doesn't it tell you something that other women have had the good sense to run after such a short time with him?

otnomart

Hi,
He doesn't drink every day, but has weekly binges.
He just texted me again and said they are having the first beer, and it is only 4.30 pm
He must have texted me 10 times today, to tell me where he is and what is doing.
i reply promptly, because it happen before that I didn't and he told me he felt hurt and so on.
I understand what you mean, I know I should somehow protect myself.
But how can I help him? I think it would be betraying his trust if I tell anyone of his suicidal statements.
At the moment I am the only person he has, close to him.
His mates live away and do not have an inkling of this.
And I am still the one he texts when he can't sleep, feels down, and so on.
I feel so drained right now.
I have hinted to a friend that my boyfr his stressed, but have not told anyone about this...

A2LUE42

Merkin wrote: »

Why would you feel guilty for not trying to make it work if you left him? You shouldn't have to try to make something work after just three short months. This is the honeymoon period but for you, this sounds to be the furthest thing from it. You've also referenced him drinking, does he have a drink problem on top of everything else? Also, doesn't it tell you something that other women have had the good sense to run after such a short time with him?

Best to end it now. If he is like this at the start of a relationship, it will only get worse. You will end up sacrificing your happiness and future in a futile attempt to help him. He either has serious mental issues and won't get help or is a very selfish and self centered or walter mitty type person who likes attention, or possibly both.

You shouldn't have to deal with this for years to come. If he won't get help, it will only get worse. Keeping you from family also seems strange if he is that dependent on others.

But at the end of the day, you are the only one who can decide what you want to do.

I have seen a guy behave like that before and it shocking to see. Every time she tries do do anything or it looks like he is going to stay in a job, he has another `episode`. Suicide threats also. The poor girl is a shadow of her former self and looks 20 years older than she is now.

Taltos

OP - if you genuinely believe he is suicidal then please report it to the authorities.
However as per Merkin above this is too early in your relationship for you to have to deal with this kind of stuff.

In fairness I can see exactly why his other girlfriends left him, and a part of me wonders if this is his was of guilting you into staying with him. Personally I would sever all ties, block his number and show evidence of the suicidal threats to your local police/health authority. He needs professional help - and that is not you. As much as you want to help you may in fact be encouraging it by enabling him - please exit fast but make that call for his own sake if not yours.

otnomart

Thank you
I do know I should think about leaving him.
I have this week-end to think about it, with some head space.
I have to keep replying to his texts though, otherwise I am afraid he would do something stupid and then blame it on my behaviour.
When he gets back, I hope I will feel strong enough to leave him.
I know it has only been 3 months, but it is not like I do not feel anything.
On the contrary. I do care about him. I had even been falling for him. Until he started behaving like this, all was fine between us.
So it is not an easy decision for me.
And, he told me many time he says friends with his Exs (except the last one) and he might want me to stay friends. He says that people who choose the no contact option, are immature and bitter...
I do feel so sad about all this...

Taltos

otnomart wrote: »

I have to keep replying to his texts though, otherwise I am afraid he would do something stupid and then blame it on my behaviour.

Classic - already you are behaving out of character from fear. You are NOT responsible for him. He is.

otnomart wrote: »

And, he told me many time he says friends with his Exs (except the last one) and he might want me to stay friends. He says that people who choose the no contact option, are immature and bitter...

Yet more manipulation.

The more you write here OP the more convinced I am you are being manipulated. Nothing at all here would encourage me to advise you to stay with him. In fact right now I want to tell you to ring him - and tell him that it is over, not to contact you again and if he does with threats of self harm you will ring the police as any normal person would for his own protection.

Not kidding here OP - you need to get out of this before your own confidence and joy of life are destroyed by this guy. Maybe he does need help, maybe he is just manipulating you - but at 3 months take the signs now and escape before it is 20 yrs and you are so worn down you don't even know or care what day it is anymore...

thegreatgonzo

Perhaps I'm very cynical but I think he is being manipulative and attention seeking. It seems peculiar to me that someone who sees no point in living evidently went out of his way to find a girlfriend not once but 3 times this year. If I was that depressed I don't think I'd be doing that. Either way he's not your problem. If I were you I'd contact his boss or his work colleague if you don't know any of his friends or family and tell them you are worried about his mental state and then move on.

otnomart

Writing all this down and reading your responses has made me see this more clearly now.
The manipulation thing.
He criticises me because I want to try to make new friends in this new country, says I see life with rosy tinted glasses, that people in the 30s and 40s do not want to make friends and we are all out for ourselves, in the end.
Criticises me for trivial things, like not wanting to recharge my phone online...
Didn't like the way I wore my hair, so I changed it.
God, if a friend wrote this to me, I will tell her to run away...
Before we got together, I was trying to make new friends, and then stopped.
I am seriously thinking to leave him, but I think I will wait until he gets back here.
We are supposed to see each other next week-end, I could do it then, face to face...

Taltos

otnomart wrote: »

Writing all this down and reading your responses has made me see this more clearly now.
The manipulation thing.
He criticises me because I want to try to make new friends in this new country, says I see life with rosy tinted glasses, that people in the 30s and 40s do not want to make friends and we are all out for ourselves, in the end.
Criticises me for trivial things, like not wanting to recharge my phone online...
Didn't like the way I wore my hair, so I changed it.
God, if a friend wrote this to me, I will tell her to run away...
Before we got together, I was trying to make new friends, and then stopped.
I am seriously thinking to leave him, but I think I will wait until he gets back here.
We are supposed to see each other next week-end, I could do it then, face to face...

OP - why wait?
Why face to face? - so he can convince you he will change? or that you are being a "silly little girl" or that without you his life is not worth living?

If you are 100% on doing this face to face - have backup with you.

I'm sad just reading your reply - all the signs are there - all the little chipping away at your confidence. Everything. And still you think you owe him something?
Look - it is good you are recognising the sacrifices you have made of yourself - just make sure to claim them all back - learn from this relationship and avoid those that show similar traits.

Big Bag of Chips

I know in "normal" circumstances, the decent thing to do is break up with someone face to face. But in this case for your own sake, I think you need to do it either over the phone/Skype/email whatever. He almost certainly will beg, promise, cry, blame you etc etc and might even persuade you to stay with him.

You're together 3 months... That's only about 12 weeks. There should be NO problems in the first 12 weeks. But read back over you last post in particular and see all the "problems" you've had, and everything you've changed about yourself in the last 12 weeks.... And STILL there's more problems.

I'm sorry to say, OP, because you genuinely sound like a nice person, there is nothing you can do for him. There is nothing any of his other girlfriends could do for him. (You don't honestly think all this behaviour has just started in the past 12 weeks, do you?) You can be sure they would have heard the same stories from him. The same problems, fears, worries, criticisms... People in their 30s and 40s don't make new friends??? What utter rubbish. He might not want to make friends (probably because he finds it very difficult to make and hold on to them) but people meet new people all the time, and at any age.

You can't do anything about him, his behaviour or his attitude. And you are not responsible for anything he threatens to do. All you can do is take care of yourself,at this stage. 

otnomart

I have been thinking very carefully about what you all wrote.
Have not heard from him since the "first beer" text I got this afternoon.
I hope his friend is looking after him; from what he told me, his friend is quite grounded and sensible. But I know he hides that side form others. he tells me with them is always full of jokes.
I still don't think I will get any sleep tonight, thinking about him and what will happen when he gets back. Usually about mid week we start making arrangements about the week-end. I still would like to end it face to face. I want to be clear about why I am ending it. That I think he needs help, and I hope he decides to ask for help.
I was about walking away from his place last week-end, after he woke up and told me it would be better never to wake up again. I told him he should get help.
Then went for a walk to clear my head, and he phoned me and wanted to join me. I let him. I should have gone back to my own town. But I was hoping that he would cheer up throughout the day.
I feel very sad about all this.
I need to write what is happening to someone, so please keep this open,
thank you

otnomart

I slept a bit but woken up after 6 am, full of worry.
No texts from him while I slept, but found two emails dated 3 and 4 am, saying they were finally at home and totally wasted.
In the second email, he said he was not sure he could come back today, as his friend now suddenly wanted to avoid somehow doing the work he was supposed to do today and they wanted to go visit another mate.
I am just relieved he is home safe with his friend now.
I have not replied to him yet. I am assuming he uses return receipts, because he always quizzes me when I do not reply straight away. If I do not reply immediately, he will say i am annoyed because he might not come back today, which I am not.
I am now dreading the moment he calls me, as I have not got my "this is why I want to end it" speech ready in my head. I am afraid he is going to pick through it, like he does sometimes.
If I keep the phone off until late this morning, I know he will get annoyed...
I realise I keep saying I am afraid of his reactions, and I keep planning my behaviour in responses to what I fear he might do...

Merkin

Why on Earth are you affording this man the luxury of your time? You know deep down how unstable and manipulative he is, why procrastinate?

Email him and tell him that over the last week or so you have come to realise that you've nothing in common, you think he needs psychiatric help as a matter of priority, you have no intention of being at his beck and call and finally, that you never want to hear from him again.

Have you had much relationship experience OP? You seem reluctant to terminate this but this isn't what a fun and loving start to a relationship should be, far from it. Email him asap.

Taltos

You don't need a speech.

> It's over.
> Please get professional help.
> Don't ever contact me again.

Oh and block his number and email so no more fear of that next message. You have to be tough here - you cannot give an inch. Any chat will just lead him on and let him think your mind can be changed - either through pleading or through threats.
If he does threaten himself again hang up and ring the police immediately with his location.

CaraMay

Why are you waking up at 6 am worrying about a grown adult? Have you been this anxious in other relationships and are you basically a worrier and a fixer in all aspects of your life?

It sounds yo me like you are hanging on to a ghost here. He isn't the guy he portrayed himself as at the start yet you cling to this person.

Be civil but firm and look after yourself.

otnomart

Thank you
What I want to say and will say to him is that he should get professional help.
I fear I have not said that strong enough in the past, and I want to say that very strongly to him now
I believe that depression can be cured, and it is not normal that a man in his late thirties with everything going for him (job, health, family who loves him), should be thinking that life is pointless and that it is better not to wake up. That is the depression talking.
I think I got all the words now.
Thanks again

Merkin

Are you going to break up with him or do you intend to help him through the proposed treatment?

otnomart

He came back from his week-end in a very good mood, and told me he bought some herbal supplements to help with the sleep problem.
I know what they are and that he was taking them before, and I think they also help with his mood.
I want to give it another go, and see how the next weeks go.
If he has another attack or talks again about how life is pointless, I will be strong and told him to get treatment. And yes, I will try to help him through it.
Thanks again

maria34

otnomart wrote: »

He came back from his week-end in a very good mood, and told me he bought some herbal supplements to help with the sleep problem.
I know what they are and that he was taking them before, and I think they also help with his mood.
I want to give it another go, and see how the next weeks go.
If he has another attack or talks again about how life is pointless, I will be strong and told him to get treatment. And yes, I will try to help him through it.
Thanks again

Hope u told him all about how u couldnt sleep etc. that relationship sucks your life out of u.

Merkin

otnomart wrote: »

He came back from his week-end in a very good mood, and told me he bought some herbal supplements to help with the sleep problem.
I know what they are and that he was taking them before, and I think they also help with his mood.
I want to give it another go, and see how the next weeks go.
If he has another attack or talks again about how life is pointless, I will be strong and told him to get treatment. And yes, I will try to help him through it.
Thanks again

I'm going to bow out of this thread now. You're a fool.

I don't want to offend you, but you are. Why on earth you'd want to play nurse to someone who is clearly manipulating you and pushing your buttons is beyond me. I know you said you're in your late thirties, probably keen to meet someone but why so desperate? You know this guy a matter of weeks. I know it can be hard but compromising yourself like this and pandering to a needy control freak is ultimately your own decision.

I hope you get to leave this sorry situation before he ruins your life. Because he will and it is ultimately down to the decisions YOU make at this juncture.

CaraMay

Op you are ignoring serious red flags

thegreatgonzo

otnomart wrote: »

He came back from his week-end in a very good mood, and told me he bought some herbal supplements to help with the sleep problem.
I know what they are and that he was taking them before, and I think they also help with his mood.
I want to give it another go, and see how the next weeks go.
If he has another attack or talks again about how life is pointless, I will be strong and told him to get treatment. And yes, I will try to help him through it.
Thanks again

I think you are addicted to drama yourself. I'm also leaving this thread. Good luck.

Taltos

OK guys - enough bashing the Op.
Our charter is very clear on this point, calling someone a fool or just posting to say you are bowing out is not on, particularly if as in the case above an OP needs support and advice where their confidence and self-worth have been chipped away.

Any further examples of this disregard of basic civility or our charter will result in moderator action.

otnomart

p { margin-bottom: 0.08in; } Thanks for your replies, and I know you mean well.
I want to take this week to think more about this relationship.
Yesterday we spoke when he got back, and I felt it would be hard for me to bring up his issue of not him finding life worth living, because the last time he said that was last Sunday.
The rest of the week he spoke about other real and tangible problem he has.
So yesterday it would have been very difficult for me to say: ah yes, happy you had a nice week-end, and by the way it is over between us.
I am aware that I might have some issue myself, I am normally a strong willed person however I realise I gave in on some many things in this relationship.
I think it is not too late to re-assert myself, though.
I do have some relationship experience; I had a mid-term one, living together (5-10 years).
I know a relationship is also both give and take, and I asked myself what I am getting out of it, and I am still getting a lot out of it.
This man is not perfect. However, when he is not feeling low, things are good between us.
When he is low, he is obsessive: one email/text after the other, constantly telling me what he is doing (at work, around the house) or what is wrong in his life.
He admits himself he has obsessive behavior re: other things, like cleanliness.
I feel strong enough to be able to put my foot down in case he has another attack (it is quite scary to see him hyperventilating and shaking) and/or if he mentions again life not worth living and suicide. In that case, I will say I want him to see a doctor, otherwise I can not continue being with him.
As I said, we only see each other at the week-ends, so I want to take this week to reflect also on my own issues and on how is this relationship going.

Merkin

Sorry Taltos, point taken.

otnomart

a month or so has passed.
He has not mentioned suicide once, since.
I stayed with him. I realised I had a tough few months and I had been very sad most of the time, so I have started taking some herbal supplements which are supposed to help with depression. And I feel better, stronger. less at risk of manipulation
I kept seeing him at the week-ends. but I slowly feel getting more and more withdrawn, I don't know how else to describe it.
I have not talked to anyone about this.
Last week-end he had another of his "attacks", milder than the ones before.
He woke up and was not talking, just staring at the void and his hands were slightly shaking.
I said he needed professional help, he refused to talk,
Than I said I needed some air, I was going for a walk, then coming back for my things and going back to my house and letting him be by himself (as he says he needs to be alone when he feels like this).
But, he started talking and acting normal again, said he wanted to spend the day together, and talked me into it.
He then acted normal for the rest of the day, until we parted.
That evening he apologised once more for his mood.
I think he is now finally sensing I am not happy and are thinking of leaving him.
I am so confused about what to do next

CaraMay

You've been told what to do numerous times but have chosen to ignore the advice given.

maria34

You see now you are taking supplements! Whats next??? You are going crazy yourself because of a man you know only few months. Is your self esteem really that low that you think you arent worth better?

Everyone has told you its crazy but you find excuses for him only. Get out of there. You may have a chance tofind a normal partner then.

otnomart

for all the replies
I know I could leave him today and that I will be fine on my own and then I will meet someone else.
I have been single and have been in relationships and know I will be OK
But, I have real feelings for him, and I keep thinking: if he got help, things will be good for him and for us both.
I worry he will not be OK, if I leave him now.
So I don't have the heart to leave him.
I just need to tell somebody about what is going on, because today I feel sad about this, again

Stavro Mueller

How about getting in touch with a counsellor. For yourself. You're the one who needs professional help just as much as he does. Nothing that anyone here is telling you is getting through to you.

That is of course if you actually want help. Are you just seeking validation that you're doing the right thing by refusing to leave this man?

Ickle Magoo

OP,

This is an ongoing issue and if you feel you cannot take on board the advice posters here are offering, it is just going to end in frustration for you both.

If you need a sounding board in the future, please seek help in the real world. There is great advice on how best to get a counsellor that best suits your needs HERE.

All the best