Cold War, Hot Jets

ednwireland

on now bbc2


http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03h8r3y

apologies if posted before

de biz

Excellent programe,particularly liked the Jet Provost air to air footage.

mike65

Never knew the U2s were being flown by RAF pilots and it sounds like it was meant to remain a secret!

The footage of the Farnborough DeHavilland crash was alarming to say the least even though we didn't see that much - chunks of jet flying into the mass of people. Must have been horrific to witness and yet the show carried on without missing a beat.

here is some of the footage used in the show

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHj0FOkcE94

newcavanman

mike65 wrote: »

Never knew the U2s were being flown by RAF pilots and it sounds like it was meant to remain a secret!

The footage of the Farnborough DeHavilland crash was alarming to say the least even though we didn't see that much - chunks of jet flying into the mass of people. Must have been horrific to witness and yet the show carried on without missing a beat.

here is some of the footage used in the show

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHj0FOkcE94

I was at IAT at Fairford in 1993 when the migs collided, and within 5-10 minutes they had the next act in the air. Im sure it would have been different if there had been fatalities . Nonetheless it was a great way to carry on .
PS even without the crash, it was a cracking show

Jimmy444

Interesting to see the crowds at Farnborough sitting just beyond the end of the runway with the Comet coming in just a few feet over their heads. In today’s world an army of ‘Elf ‘n’ Safety officials would be marching down there with their hi-vis vests and clipboards reading out the riot act.

EchoIndia

Jimmy444 wrote: »

Interesting to see the crowds at Farnborough sitting just beyond the end of the runway with the Comet coming in just a few feet over their heads. In today’s world an army of ‘Elf ‘n’ Safety officials would be marching down there with their hi-vis vests and clipboards reading out the riot act.

There has not been a spectator fatality at a UK airshow since the terrible DH110 crash in 1952. Safety procedures have been incrementally tightened up over the years since then, so in the circumstances it is probably fair to say that this approach has paid off.

Tenger

mike65 wrote: »

...The footage of the Farnborough DeHavilland crash was alarming to say the least even though we didn't see that much - chunks of jet flying into the mass of people. Must have been horrific to witness and yet the show carried on without missing a beat.

Part of it was that many in aviation had lost friends so many times in 1940-1945. There was a hardening in British minds at the time. The pilot's wife was in the crowd when the jet broke apart.


"Empire of the Clouds" is a great book...details the post WWII UK aircraft industry and how they went from world leaders to 2nd rate due to political interference and old fashioned manufacturing philopsophies.

shamwari

I'm raging I missed that programme. Will it be repeated?

Edit: thank goodness for youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSeOcNwmGAk

Jimmy444

EchoIndia wrote: »

There has not been a spectator fatality at a UK airshow since the terrible DH110 crash in 1952. Safety procedures have been incrementally tightened up over the years since then, so in the circumstances it is probably fair to say that this approach has paid off.

Not disagreeing that the rules in place today are a good idea. In fact I don’t understand how anyone thought that having spectators standing under the approach within yards of an active display runway was ever a good idea. But as others have pointed out, having come out of WW2 and the blitz many people were probably inured to danger and risk of death or accident.

Tenger

Love that they got Eric "Winkle" Brown to be part of this. Amazing man...well worth it to spend 30 minutes on wiki reading about him.

Watching it you get the sense of how the early jet pilots were dying due to lack of knowledge of the aircraft behaviour at high speed. There was a sense of inevitability about deaths in service.


Watching it on the youtube link above......The presenter is walking inside a "Mk 1 Comet". I got a little annoyed as it looked like a post crash Comet to me. A quick google sorted it out for me.
It is actually an upgraded Mk1 (Cosford Air Museum) with some post crash improvements....anyone spot the difference that got me hot and bothered?

Am looking forward to the 'V Force' focused episode 2.

merisi

I thought it was short of focus and while the sections on the sale of the Nene to the Soviet Union and the RAF pilots flying the U-2 were interesting neither was explored in much depth. The "jolly" in the Jet Provost was rather indulgent and in any case, the Jet Provost is largely irrelevant in the context of the programme. I agree with Tenger that "Empire of the Clouds" is well worth reading and a description of a pile of Meteor carcasses stacked up at an RAF base emphasises just how dangerous some of the early jets were.

A bit more on the Vampire/Venom would have been relevant. In any case, I'm looking forward to the second instalment. (While hoping that too much of the running time is not devoted to the TSR.2)

merisi

Tenger wrote: »

Part of it was that many in aviation had lost friends so many times in 1940-1945. There was a hardening in British minds at the time. The pilot's wife was in the crowd when the jet broke apart.

Not only that, but shortly afterwards, Neville Duke went up in a Hawker P.1067 and broke the sound barrier while medical personnel were still tending to the killed and injured spectators. Truly a different era.

wotswattage

Tenger wrote: »

anyone spot the difference that got me hot and bothered?

Rounded windows??

Re: the airshow continuing. As mentioned the audience was a British one, well used to living in proximity to death throughout the second world war, but it was really a different world back then.

The Le Mans 24 hour race in 1955 was marred by an accident just 3 hours into the race which killed 83 people, yet the race ran its full 24 hour course with cars only slowing down while passing the scene of the accident, and racing round the rest of the track!

I also recall seeing a newsreel film of an early Royal Navy jet having an accident on either landing or taking off from a carrier, the plane falls over the side and floats for several minutes before sinking. The pilot was unable to open the canopy and went down with the plane despite frantic rescue efforts. The whole incident was shown almost unedited to the general public in the national newsreels.

wotswattage

mike65 wrote: »

Never knew the U2s were being flown by RAF pilots and it sounds like it was meant to remain a secret!

I did some reading up, seems there were only 15 RAF pilots who flew U2's, and over 600 USAF ones!!! The documentary lets on it was nearly all RAF...

Tenger

wotswattage wrote: »

I did some reading up, seems there were only 15 RAF pilots who flew U2's, and over 600 USAF ones!!! The documentary lets on it was nearly all RAF...

It may well be that the US overflights were mostly over Eastern USSR. Perhaps the RAF took the flights over the Iron Curtain and the Eastern Bloc countries and their attendant multitude of fighter airfields. Those routes shown looked pretty high intensity.

Davidth88

Finally finished watching it last night .

Enjoyed it , I agree the flight in the JP was a bit silly.

Looking forward to the V bomber stuff , I remember the tail end of the Vulcan era , seeing lines of them at Scampton and doing the 'Lincolnshire Triangle' during the exercises .

I hope it also covers the Canbarra , which was flying until quite recently in the PR guise , I remember seeing them in the 80's in their drab colour schemes.

I know this is about the British jets which is great , but I always admired the French jets , never saw a Mirage 4 flying which I would have loved to have seen, their exit from NATO meant they never took part in exercises .

Tabnabs

Tenger wrote: »

It may well be that the US overflights were mostly over Eastern USSR. Perhaps the RAF took the flights over the Iron Curtain and the Eastern Bloc countries and their attendant multitude of fighter airfields. Those routes shown looked pretty high intensity.

I can confirm that the US pilots flew the U2 over western USSR and used Norwegian airspace and also RNoAF airbases on occasion.

Alun

wotswattage wrote: »

Rounded windows??

I noticed that too and mentioned it to the missus who was sitting next to me. I got one of those glares

Tenger

Alun wrote: »

I noticed that too and mentioned it to the missus who was sitting next to me. I got one of those glares

The "can't believe I married such a nerd" glares? Get that far too often myself!

My missus switches on Air Crash and then expects me to tell her the final report of the investigation about 5-10 minutes in

Alun

Tenger wrote: »

The "can't believe I married such a nerd" glares?

That's the one, yes

Stereomaniac

Oh man, my missus screams out for the wrestling to be switched back on when I start on planes.

Tenger

Stereomaniac wrote: »

Oh man, my missus screams out for the wrestling to be switched back on when I start on planes.

Jesus, you must have a bad case of aerosexuality......

mike65

Part Two on tonight. 9 PM BBC2

mike65

The V Bombers - a 12 year olds wet dream! :pac:

newcavanman

Last nights show featured lightning F.6 XS904 . It is operated , along with its sister, XR728 , by the Lightning preservation group at Bruntinthorpe Airfield . A mate of mine, Andy B is a member of the group that operates both these aircraft . We have been over there many times, and i would urge anyone , who wishes to see these aircraft come to life to visit . There are a series of open days throughout the year, some , such as last saturday only feature the lightning and a Canberra . However on the may Bank holiday in the UK, they have a major open day in which most of the aircraft will taxi . This year that included, Nimrod, Victor, Lightning, Hunter, Jet Provost, Buccaneer(s) and Comet .
It is a brilliant day out, and the base is only 40 mins drive from Birmingham airport . Two people, no check in baggage and shared car hire, means the trip can often be done for €50-60
PS this years open day also featured a display by the Rolls Royce Spitfire