Islam in Scandanavia

BobbyPropane

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV710c1dgpU#t=243

Never really heard much about problems with immigration in Sweden until recently. But take a look at this video from a "Peace" conference in Norway.

Skip to 4:03. The speaker asked how many Muslims there are in favour of stoning and the death penalty for offences against Sharia Law and nearly all of them put their hands up.

Now I'm pretty open minded about other cultures etc and I know that these people could be nice on the outside and even perhaps tolerant for a while but if this the underlying message of Islam and the basis of its culture then I would be completely opposed to the building of any major mosques in this country and indeed immigration if needs be.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

funnily enough the best thing to do with those people would be to integrate the **** out of them

christianity in europe has been well and truly neutered, now we just need to do the same to islam.

DrumSteve

Scandanavian Forum --->

gobnaitolunacy

Thought the Scandy countries would be too cold, grey and depressing for them.

Ush1

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

funnily enough the best thing to do with those people would be to integrate the **** out of them

christianity in europe has been well and truly neutered, now we just need to do the same to islam.

Depends what you mean by "integration" with people who want the death penalty for something deemed wrong by them for simply religious reasons.

They are fully entitled to their beliefs, and I'm fully entitled to disagree with it.

iDave

gobnaitolunacy wrote: »

Thought the Scandy countries would be too cold, grey and depressing for them.

Yeah but theres attractive women that need covering up.

Xeyn

Yeah because a spot vote in a conference is truly a representative of the average Muslim and that one aspect on punishment for violation of a religious law is truly 'the basis' of their culture.

BobbyPropane

Xeyn wrote: »

Yeah because a spot vote in a conference is truly a representative of the average Muslim and that one aspect on punishment for violation of a religious law is truly 'the basis' of their culture.

So you're ok with stoning in the culture? Nearly everyone there put their hands up in favour of it at a PEACE conference. These conferences don't exactly attract the radical ones in the religion.

Hande hoche!

I might as well mention magdalene laundries and get it over with.

Xeyn

BobbyPropane wrote: »

So you're ok with stoning in the culture? Nearly everyone there put their hands up in favour of it at a PEACE conference. These conferences don't exactly attract the radical ones in the religion.

Again youre taking one aspect and saying that's how we should judge an entire religion which is completely insane.
If we applied your rule for acceptable xenophobia we should kick anyone who believes in anything out of the country

BobbyPropane

Xeyn wrote: »

Again youre taking one aspect and saying that's how we should judge an entire religion which is completely insane.
If we applied your rule for acceptable xenophobia we should kick anyone who believes in anything out of the country

I'm not, as I said if this was to be a continuous trend then I would be worried but seriously I advise you to look at the impact of immigration (particularly muslims) in Sweden.

This is cliched but I have muslim friends and they are tolerant so I know it is not the case to generalise, but groups like those do exist and are worrying.

Also what they speak about is worse than Magdalene laundries

Ush1

Xeyn wrote: »

Again youre taking one aspect and saying that's how we should judge an entire religion which is completely insane.
If we applied your rule for acceptable xenophobia we should kick anyone who believes in anything out of the country

So should we just ignore the bits about stoning and apostasy?

iDave

Ush1 wrote: »

So should we just ignore the bits about stoning and apostasy?

Yes we should because if we don't WE are the intolerant ones :rolleyes:

Xeyn

So we shouldn't welcome Christians then? After all the bible endorses stoning for a lot more trivial crimes.

Xenophobia is truly well and alive it seems. Let's all go judging entire groups of people on beliefs, beliefs which they happy to live without even if they believe in alternative laws.

hansfrei

The sister of one of the three people who were stabbed by a Muslim on a bus recently have asked for tolerance. Can't say I'd be so forgiving.

FTA69

The fella in question is a radical religious bigot and his organisation isn't much better. This was an event hosted by his group and clearly had an agenda to begin with; at the end of the day he was preaching to his own supporters, hardly a representation of all Muslims. The fact that there are a large number of young men who are adopting this viewpoint is certainly worrying; but it shouldn't be taken as an example that "they're all like that."

Ush1

Xeyn wrote: »

So we shouldn't welcome Christians then? After all the bible endorses stoning for a lot more trivial crimes.

Xenophobia is truly well and alive it seems. Let's all go judging entire groups of people on beliefs, beliefs which they happy to live without even if they believe in alternative laws.

I will make judgements on people who believe things I find reprehensible and they find perfectly fine, be they Christian, Muslim or otherwise. That's human nature.

Sir Humphrey Appleby

hansfrei wrote: »

The sister of one of the three people who were stabbed by a Muslim on a bus recently have asked for tolerance. Can't say I'd be so forgiving.

I wasn't aware of any evidence that this guy stabbed people because of his religion, if you have any such evidence can you link it.
I mean, unfortunately people get stabbed in Ireland every week, we don't automatically ascribe religious motivations to those actions.

General General

Look, Islam is a religion of peace... every single stone is thrown peacefully with peace as the end goal.

hansfrei

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

I wasn't aware of any evidence that this guy stabbed people because of his religion, if you have any such evidence can you link it.
I mean, unfortunately people get stabbed in Ireland every week, we don't automatically ascribe religious motivations to those actions.

You said that I said that he stabbed people because of his religeon. Its you who needs to back things up.

Sir Humphrey Appleby

hansfrei wrote: »

You said that I said that he stabbed people because of his religeon. Its you who needs to back things up.

No, you brought his religion into this, you posted it to up the tempo.

biko

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

I wasn't aware of any evidence that this guy stabbed people because of his religion, if you have any such evidence can you link it.

Yeah I don't think he did it for religious reasons.

It seems to be unclear what his reasons were. He was an asylum seeker from South Sudan and was reject for asylum by the gov of Norway. He was supposed to be deported the next day.
The victims included the Norwegian bus driver and a Swedish passenger, both in their 50s, and a 19-year-old Norwegian woman (the only other people on the bus). http://www.thelocal.no/20131104/three-killed-in-norway-bus-hi-jack

On topic, Sweden now allows muslim call to prayer from their mosque minarets and there is talk of making muslim religious holidays mandatory.
Muslims account for approx 5% (give or take, no-one knows exactly) of the population in Sweden.
In 1930 the muslim population was 15 people
http://www.thelocal.se/20110502/33520

Systemic Risk

I am actually really surprised by that video. I really thought that the majority of Muslims who live in western society would be against stoning for things like adultery or homosexuality. I usually avoid religious conversations with very religious people to avoid falling out with them so I don't really know the views of any of the people I am friendly with who are Muslims. I find it very hard to believe that they would be in favour of such punishments for things such as adultery.

Anyway however primitive or backwards we think these "punishments" are, as long as they are not practised in Europe then these people are doing nothing wrong. They are entitled to their opinions as long as they obey the law of the land. For the record I find these practices horrible and primitive...hence the reason I don't discuss religious matters with people (of any faith) who are very religious.

hansfrei

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

No, you brought his religion into this, you posted it to up the tempo.

What are you on about?

The news have been covering the story, they trying to up the tempo too? This another conspiracy theory? Care to back up your claim?


He was due to be sent back.

BobbyPropane

Apparently 90% of all rapes in Norway are committed by Muslims while in Sweden it stands at 48%

Other things I have seen reported in Swedish newspapers is employers looking to hire only immigrants

Two interesting screenshots, obviously doesn't paint the whole picture and I'm perhaps being biased in only showing anti-islam but still these are real so..:

cletus van damme

I am very angry about the attitudes in this thread. How dare posters even think that the glorious Scandinavian model is less than brilliant?

What model am I talking about - the model where everything in Ireland is held up to ridicule cos the Scandinavians do it better.

everything is super over there and never question it.

Sir Humphrey Appleby

hansfrei wrote: »

What are you on about?

The news have been covering the story, they trying to up the tempo too? This another conspiracy theory? Care to back up your claim?


He was due to be sent back.

You know what I'm on about alright.
Thread on Muslims in Scandinavia and your first post is how a Muslim stabbed 3 people to death, clear intent to imply rampant Muslim violence, else why post it.
Also clear fail.

crockholm

There is an Imam formerly of the central mosque in Stockholm who is in a spot of bother for supplying arms to the "rebels" in Syria.

suicide_circus

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/7f/7f478233c71b493c8a071dd88dbd2c5babeb68a648199374ca54fb24e241ab05.jpg

BobbyPropane

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

You know what I'm on about alright.
Thread on Muslims in Scandinavia and your first post is how a Muslim stabbed 3 people to death, clear intent to imply rampant Muslim violence, else why post it.
Also clear fail.

It was wrong of him to say that man went crazy because of Islam.

Here is some violence in Sweden caused by muslims though:

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2013/05/violent-muslim-riots-continue-for-sixth-straight-day-in-sweden-spreading-beyond-capital.html

http://rt.com/news/stockholm-violence-outbreak-fires-671/


http://observers.france24.com/content/20130820-swedish-women-headscarves-attack-muslim



"We don't want to integrate"

hansfrei

BobbyPropane wrote: »

It was wrong of him to say that man went crazy because of Islam.

Here is some violence in Sweden caused by muslims though:

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2013/05/violent-muslim-riots-continue-for-sixth-straight-day-in-sweden-spreading-beyond-capital.html

http://rt.com/news/stockholm-violence-outbreak-fires-671/


http://observers.france24.com/content/20130820-swedish-women-headscarves-attack-muslim



"We don't want to integrate"

If you're refering to me that would be defamation. I have said nothing like that.

suicide_circus

hansfrei wrote: »

If you're refering to me that would be defamation. I have said nothing like that.

lol sue his ass

FTA69

Systemic Risk wrote: »

I am actually really surprised by that video. I really thought that the majority of Muslims who live in western society would be against stoning for things like adultery or homosexuality.

If I went into the Sinn Féin Ard Fheis and polled support for the IRA campaign a large majority would agree I'd imagine. However, you'd be foolish to take that as representative as the Irish population as a whole. This conference was a get-together for radical zealots so obviously the opinions expressed there would reflect that. While such a group is definitely worrying (considering the youth of those involved), it isn't indicative of broader Muslim attitudes.

Sir Humphrey Appleby

BobbyPropane wrote: »

It was wrong of him to say that man went crazy because of Islam.

Here is some violence in Sweden caused by muslims though:

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2013/05/violent-muslim-riots-continue-for-sixth-straight-day-in-sweden-spreading-beyond-capital.html

http://rt.com/news/stockholm-violence-outbreak-fires-671/


http://observers.france24.com/content/20130820-swedish-women-headscarves-attack-muslim



"We don't want to integrate"

Reading from the racist link you provided it is clear that you don't!

First link is from a virulent Muslim hate website, after that I ignored the other links in case I caught a disease.
Any links to all the violence caused in Sweden by non Muslims or are you inferring that only Muslims cause violence?
Maybe it is a case that Sweden was a crime free utopia before the Muslims arrived.

BobbyPropane

FTA69 wrote: »

If I went into the Sinn Féin Ard Fheis and polled support for the IRA campaign a large majority would agree I'd imagine. However, you'd be foolish to take that as representative as the Irish population as a whole. This conference was a get-together for radical zealots so obviously the opinions expressed there would reflect that. While such a group is definitely worrying (considering the youth of those involved), it isn't indicative of broader Muslim attitudes.

Personally I think it is. Look at what is happening in Sweden
, it is NOT integration. Muslims have taken over full suburbs in Malmo and bathe in their own backward ideologies

BobbyPropane

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

Reading from the racist link you provided it is clear that you don't!

First link is from a virulent Muslim hate website, after that I ignored the other links in case I caught a disease.
Any links to all the violence caused in Sweden by non Muslims or are you inferring that only Muslims cause violence?
Maybe it is a case that Sweden was a crime free utopia before the Muslims arrived.

As I said 48% of all rapes in Sweden are caused by Muslims and two of those links are from Russia Today and France 24 so no they are not "racist links", also are you ok with minorites causing havoc for everyone else? Of course there was violence in Sweden before immigration but when widespread violence is being caused by the immigrants we are supposed to say that's normal? Their message was "We don't want to integrate"

hansfrei

BobbyPropane wrote: »

Personally I think it is. Look at what is happening in Sweden
, it is NOT integration. Muslims have taken over full suburbs in Malmo and bathe in their own backward ideologies

Might be what Swedes want for all you know. Don't think governments set about something without considering consequences.

BobbyPropane

hansfrei wrote: »

Might be what Swedes want for all you know. Don't think governments set about something without considering consequences.

In my opinion they are trying too hard to become tolerant. Recently a new movie rating system was brought in based on how sexist movies are.

Here's that 48% statistic http://www.thelocal.se/20100825/28580

jaykay74

cletus van damme wrote: »

I am very angry about the attitudes in this thread. How dare posters even think that the glorious Scandinavian model is less than brilliant?

What model am I talking about - the model where everything in Ireland is held up to ridicule cos the Scandinavians do it better.

everything is super over there and never question it.

someones a bit touchy :pac:

Sir Humphrey Appleby

BobbyPropane wrote: »

In my opinion they are trying too hard to become tolerant. Recently a new movie rating system was brought in based on how sexist movies are.

Here's that 48% statistic http://www.thelocal.se/20100825/28580

More bullshít claims.
From the rebuttal carried in the article
"There were 253 court judgements last year, there were 6,000 rapes reported to the police and the Sweden Democrats have chosen 114 cases," said Klara Hradilova Selin to The Local.

Grayson

cletus van damme wrote: »

I am very angry about the attitudes in this thread. How dare posters even think that the glorious Scandinavian model is less than brilliant?

What model am I talking about - the model where everything in Ireland is held up to ridicule cos the Scandinavians do it better.

everything is super over there and never question it.

It's way fcuking better than here in many regards. At least when it comes to police, health services and other public services.

that's not to say they're better at everything. I'm actually impressed with the level of tolerance in this country. Except for the odd drunk skanger (or poster on boards) I've seen no racism really. Scandanavian countried might be considered a paradise in many ways, but we're actually not too bad ourselves.

BobbyPropane

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

More bullshít claims.
From the rebuttal carried in the article
"There were 253 court judgements last year, there were 6,000 rapes reported to the police and the Sweden Democrats have chosen 114 cases," said Klara Hradilova Selin to The Local.

Please do some research into the subject yourself as well it is very interesting. Also similar statistics have been found in other Scandinavian countries. I don't want to come across as a racist or anything but seeing Immigrants riot and saying "We don't want to integrate" worries me.

Sir Humphrey Appleby

BobbyPropane wrote: »

As I said 48% of all rapes in Sweden are caused by Muslims

The link you posted clearly blows that racist claim out of the water.
Want to try again?

BobbyPropane

Grayson wrote: »

It's way fcuking better than here in many regards. At least when it comes to police, health services and other public services.

that's not to say they're better at everything. I'm actually impressed with the level of tolerance in this country. Except for the odd drunk skanger (or poster on boards) I've seen no racism really. Scandanavian countried might be considered a paradise in many ways, but we're actually not too bad ourselves.

Swedes are really rude as well according to another thread

BobbyPropane

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

The link you posted clearly blows that racist claim out of the water.
Want to try again?

And I suppose you'll ignore all the other links too with violence etc? You can't really support the influx of such immigrants into a country can you?

That statistic is still true as well with regards to those cases, I would like to see some other stats for all cases though, true.

https://www.google.ie/search?q=rapes+committed+by+swedish+immigrants&oq=rapes+committed+by+swedish+immigrants&aqs=chrome..69i57.6057j0j7&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8

FTA69

BobbyPropane wrote: »

Personally I think it is. Look at what is happening in Sweden
, it is NOT integration. Muslims have taken over full suburbs in Malmo and bathe in their own backward ideologies

I work in a community centre near Whitechapel, my old doll is a midwife in the same area. We spend most of our working lives around Muslims. Part of my job is organising education and training projects for the local community which is overwhelmingly Bengali and Somali Muslim, we also get a lot of Arabs. These would be largely conservative Muslims, with a lot of the women wearing a niqab (veil). The fact of the matter is that they are ordinary people who largely live in poverty and are desperate to get on. The single biggest demand for courses I get is for English lessons and IT which they hope will enable them to find work or at the very least contribute to their children's school life etc. This notion of them as all being hostile to everyone who isn't a Muslim is complete and utter b*llocks.

People are very quick to make assumptions about others in society based on superficial notions they may have and it really p*sses me off.

Sir Humphrey Appleby

BobbyPropane wrote: »

I don't want to come across as a racist or anything

Then why post links to a virulent hate site as a source for your claims?

Sir Humphrey Appleby

BobbyPropane wrote: »

And I suppose you'll ignore all the other links too with violence etc? You can't really support the influx of such immigrants into a country can you?

That statistic is still true as well with regards to those cases, I would like to see some other stats for all cases though, true.

https://www.google.ie/search?q=rapes+committed+by+swedish+immigrants&oq=rapes+committed+by+swedish+immigrants&aqs=chrome..69i57.6057j0j7&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8

More links to Muslim hate websites, and then you claim you don't to come across as a racist!:rolleyes:

BobbyPropane

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

More links to Muslim hate websites, and then you claim you don't to come across as a racist!:rolleyes:

Choose which ever you like . I love how other sites are never claimed to be too left wing or liberal. Its always "racist" .

BobbyPropane

FTA69 wrote: »

I work in a community centre near Whitechapel, my old doll is a midwife in the same area. We spend most of our working lives around Muslims. Part of my job is organising education and training projects for the local community which is overwhelmingly Bengali and Somali Muslim, we also get a lot of Arabs. These would be largely conservative Muslims, with a lot of the women wearing a niqab (veil). The fact of the matter is that they are ordinary people who largely live in poverty and are desperate to get on. The single biggest demand for courses I get is for English lessons and IT which they hope will enable them to find work or at the very least contribute to their children's school life etc. This notion of them as all being hostile to everyone who isn't a Muslim is complete and utter b*llocks.

People are very quick to make assumptions about others in society based on superficial notions they may have and it really p*sses me off.

As I said I know not all of them are bad and it is wrong to generalise but even Muslims in England have occasionally shown that they want sharia law wherever they go.

People can be nice but as a group following an ideology things get messy.

Son Of A Vidic

FTA69 wrote: »

The fella in question is a radical religious bigot and his organisation isn't much better. This was an event hosted by his group and clearly had an agenda to begin with; at the end of the day he was preaching to his own supporters, hardly a representation of all Muslims. The fact that there are a large number of young men who are adopting this viewpoint is certainly worrying; but it shouldn't be taken as an example that "they're all like that."

Be careful now, you'll get yourself in trouble for making too much sense.