Rear brake lever side

nordicb

Hi,

Just curious, is this something to do with the country or something else - I had rear brake lever on the right side since I remember, but shops in Ireland sell bikes with it on the left?

So rear derailleur and front brakes on the same right side? How weird!

Anyone else cycles with the rear brake in the right hand?

Thanks

Amprodude

nordicb wrote: »

Hi,

Just curious, is this something to do with the country or something else - I had rear brake lever on the right side since I remember, but shops in Ireland sell bikes with it on the left?

So rear derailleur and front brakes on the same right side? How weird!

Anyone else cycles with the rear brake in the right hand?

Thanks

I do. i think its due to where it came from but im open to correction. My two bikes came in from abroad

Marvinthefish

I think it's to do with making turns.

In driving-on-the-left countries (Ireland, UK, Japan, Aus. etc.) the more "difficult" turn is a right turn. When you have your right arm stuck out to indicate you're turning right, if you need to quickly brake, for whatever reason, a left hand on the brake will pull the rear brake. If the left brake lever operated the front brake, you may end up losing control more easily.

Other way around for driving-on-the-right countries (Italy, USA, Tajikistan etc.) and hence rear brake levers are traditionally on the right.

That sounded believable right? I could be totally wrong!

Darkglasses

Marvinthefish wrote: »

That sounded believable right? I could be totally wrong!

Yeah I think that's it.

One of my bikes has it on the right side, the other two on the left. How I haven't faceplanted myself yet I don't know.

nordicb

Thanks. Country of origin makes sense and have to admit I feel a little wobbly when need to indicate right on roundabouts.

Makes me wonder if a bent left arm sign is understood in Ireland? Where I came from, 90 degrees bent left arm pointing hand up would mean I'm turning right.

Paddigol

You'd probably just get lots of people waving back at you over here.

nordicb

It's less known anywhere really, I never use it for the sake of my own safety.

There are manual traffic regulation hand signs on manually controlled crossroads, that police often use in other counties, but they are misunderstood by many - I've never seen Gardai using them here for this very same reason I would think, which is more driver friendly, but probably not correct.

Wishbone Ash

Darkglasses wrote: »

Yeah I think that's it.

One of my bikes has it on the right side, the other two on the left. How I haven't faceplanted myself yet I don't know.

Same here - 3 bikes - rear brake on left on 2 of them.

smacl

I has one of each, so swapped the brakes on my road bike to front brake on right side which is what I'd become used to.

Cee-Jay-Cee

My two bikes have it on different sides too. I did think about swapping one of them to have both the same but couldnt be arsed for something that doesnt bother me in the slightest.

Seaneh

I don't think I've ever owned a bike with the rear brake on the right. Always the left.

Front shifter and back brake on the left, rear shifter and front brake on the right, always.

triggermortis

When I bought my MTB a few years ago from Germany, the front brake was on the left. I changed this immediately as I wasn't used to it.
My wife bought a road bike here this year and it has the front brake on the left too. She actually likes it that way round so we haven't changed it, but I am wary of it whenever I ride it.

tomasrojo

nordicb wrote: »

Thanks. Country of origin makes sense and have to admit I feel a little wobbly when need to indicate right on roundabouts.

Makes me wonder if a bent left arm sign is understood in Ireland? Where I came from, 90 degrees bent left arm pointing hand up would mean I'm turning right.

I think that's because it's meant to be exactly the same signal as a car-driver would give if they had no indicators. Car-drivers can't lean out of the far window to signal. I don't know whether it's a legal signal here, but it's not understood.

Even the patting motion to mean "I'm slowing down" isn't widely understood here, and that is a legal one.

tomasrojo

I think that the chirality (for the Chemistry fans amongs you) of the brake lever is down to the country of origin. The US and most of Europe have the rear-brake lever on the right. The Dublin Bike, which are of a French design, are set up this way. Bikes destined for the UK market or Ireland have the rear-brake lever on the left.

Wishbone Ash

tomasrojo wrote: »

I think that's because it's meant to be exactly the same signal as a car-driver would give if they had no indicators. Car-drivers can't lean out of the far window to signal.

The proper signal to indicate left (to road users behind) in a vehicle where the driver sits on the right is to extend the right arm outside the right side of the vehicle and make small circular motions in an anti-clockwise direction.

The signal displayed by nordicb has no legal basis here and could be confused with the signal used by some cyclists to indicate that they are going straight ahead.

tomasrojo

Oh yeah, I was assuming that that signal was the one used by motorists without indicators in the OP's country of origin. I seem to remember that it's the one used in at least a few states in the USA (driver sitting to the left).

kenmc

Right lever for front brake and rear mech makes most sense to me on so many levels....
- My Right Hand is the dominant one, so is both stronger for emergency braking and would probably be slightly "softer" for feathering brakes.
- Can slow down to traffic lights or in heavy traffic by rear braking, at the same time as upshifting the back to be in a nicer gear for starting off again - harder to do if rear brake and rear mech on the same side.
- previously mentioned turning indication lark and emergency brake pull
And above all, it's what I'm used to for the last 30 odd years.

tomasrojo

Was the cyclist-going-straight-ahead signal made up here to explain how cyclists were supposed to go straight on in cycle tracks that lay to the immediate left of the left-turn lane? Is it legal? Is it used anywhere else?

seamus

tomasrojo wrote: »

Bikes destined for the UK market or Ireland have the rear-brake lever on the left.

Most road bikes coming into Ireland (certainly anything designed to actually be used) are set up in the euro style. I don't think I've ever encountered a new road bike with the front brake on the right (not that it doesn't happen, I'm sure it does).

Cable routing comes into it too. The entry point for the cable on road calipers and V-brakes is on the left-hand side of the brake (when you look at it straight on). Thus when cabling up the front brake if you use the right-hand lever, the cable has to make an S-bend to get into the brake. On the left-hand lever it only has to make a single 90 degree turn. So for high-performance/race purposes it makes the most sense to have the front on the left.

The rear brake is largely unaffected by the side because the cable turn/length is practically the same.

We're starting to see SRAM Red discs appearing on road bikes which gives a lot more freedom in terms of performance, because hydraulics are unaffected by twists and turns in the cable. Plus, the caliper is now on the opposite side of the bike so a right-hand front brake is more aesthetically pleasing.

Was the cyclist-going-straight-ahead signal made up here to explain how cyclists were supposed to go straight on in cycle tracks that lay to the immediate left of the left-turn lane? Is it legal? Is it used anywhere else?

I believe its primary purpose is to let a person directing traffic (e.g. a Garda) know what you planned on doing. All other road users are likewise required to do the same, but I've never seen it done and I wonder if most Gardai would even understand it now.

It's meaningless for following traffic, it's only to be used for pointsmen and oncoming traffic. So even if left-turn-only bus lanes there's no reason to use it except to stop oncoming traffic from pulling across you.

Wishbone Ash

tomasrojo wrote: »

Was the cyclist-going-straight-ahead signal made up here to explain how cyclists were supposed to go straight on in cycle tracks that lay to the immediate left of the left-turn lane? Is it legal? Is it used anywhere else?

I don't think it has any legal basis. I see some cyclists using it in bus lanes which periodically become "left turn only except buses" lanes for other traffic.

tomasrojo

I've never had a road bike, so I had no idea! (I hope I can continue to post here now.) My touring bike is set up with the front brake actuated by the right lever, but that's old-style caliper brakes, so the cable goes down the centre of bike for the front brake.

slideshow bob

nordicb wrote: »

Makes me wonder if a bent left arm sign is understood in Ireland? Where I came from, 90 degrees bent left arm pointing hand up would mean I'm turning right.

Bent left arm means "I want to go straight on." The Rules of the Road includes this in
"Hand signals to be given to a pointsman and on-coming traffic"

Ref: Rules of the Road p.107

tomasrojo

slideshow bob wrote: »

Bent left arm means "I want to go straight on." The Rules of the Road includes this in
"Hand signals to be given to a pointsman and on-coming traffic"

Ref: Rules of the Road p.107

Looks as if it's a US/Canada convention for it to mean right turn:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand_signals#Right_turn

AltAccount

This thread needs a poll so I can see how right I am...

doozerie

When I was a kid any bike I encountered here in Ireland had the right lever connected to the front brake. At some point in my teens I swapped the cables on my racer and have ridden with the right lever connected to the back brake ever since, but I think that bikes sold in this country still default to right lever = front brake. When I've looked at bikes in bike shops here they are invariably set up that way.

If you buy a bike in from Europe it may come with right lever = rear brake, that's certainly the case for Canyon bikes. I recently bought a pre-built Kona (Canadian company, but strong supporters of the Chinese economy...) with mechanical disc brakes and I specifically asked for right lever = rear brake, and sure enough it got to me with a ham-fisted example of how to badly swap cables over and make a dog's dinner of the handlebar tape in the process i.e. it was shipped to Ireland with right lever = front brake. I recently spoke to Islabikes in the UK and any orders, of mostly kids bikes, that they ship to Ireland and the UK are set up for right lever = front brake by default whereas any orders that go to europe are set up the other way round (though you can tell them your preference and they'll set it up whichever way you want).

So the right lever = front brake obviously persists as the default for this country for some companies, and perhaps all of those that sell via Irish shops.

joxerjohn

Interesting, my advice would be to make sure the brakes are set up on your bike in the way you first learned and are most familar with it. It is not a big job to change this.

I started out with the IRL / UK convention with front brake always on the right. I have and would always be bothered to change to this on a bike from the Continent as I know that in an emergency I would not have time to think and would instinctly pull the brakes based on how I first learned, which could mean a trip over the handlebars if I pulled the front hard instead of the back.

I also would not be tempted to adopt Continential set up were I to go to France for the same safety reasons. It is hard to teach an old dog new tricks as they say !

letape

joxerjohn wrote: »

I know that in an emergency I would not have time to think and would instinctly pull the brakes based on how I first learned, which could mean a trip over the handlebars if I pulled the front hard instead of the back.!

Slightly off topic but would the majority of people not use the front brake for slowing down/stopping more so than the back brake?

nordicb

letape wrote: »

Slightly off topic but would the majority of people not use the front brake for slowing down/stopping more so than the back brake?

Personally I never engage front brakes without rears. Usually both with slight focus on rears. But my right hand is naturally stronger (rear brakes).

Going downhill, however, I tend to switch between fronts and rears or engage both as above for short periods of time.

Avoiding locking or unlocking wheels in critical situations is rather an art already.

hueylewis

Yeah, rear on the right for me on my current bike - learned the opposite. I'm fairly used to it now, though in the rare case of a think-fast moment, my brain tends to instinctively tell me to pull the left for the rear.

Mucco

I'm right handed, so I prefer to have my front brake on the right, as it is by far the most effective brake, and I can modulate it better with my right hand.

Sheldon "Front Brake" Brown comments on brakes here:
http://sheldonbrown.com/brakturn.html

Pigeon Reaper

All motorbikes have the right lever setup for the front brakes. The left is for the clutch. I have all my bikes with the front brake setup the same to avoid accidents so this means the right is my front brake. I'm too stupid to remember it any other way during emergency braking.

tomasrojo

Pigeon Reaper wrote: »

All motorbikes have the right lever setup for the front brakes. The left is for the clutch. I have all my bikes with the front brake setup the same to avoid accidents so this means the right is my front brake. I'm too stupid to remember it any other way during emergency braking.

Perhaps you can answer something that's puzzled me for a while. Why are bike chains on the right side of the frame, and motorbike chains on the left? Accident of history?

Wishbone Ash

tomasrojo wrote: »

Perhaps you can answer something that's puzzled me for a while. Why are bike chains on the right side of the frame, and motorbike chains on the left? Accident of history?

Possibly because on a motorcycle the gear change (foot pedal) and clutch lever (hand operated) are also on the left whereas the front brake (hand operated) and rear brake (foot pedal) are on the right.

Pigeon Reaper

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Possibly because on a motorcycle the gear change (foot pedal) and clutch lever (hand operated) are also on the left whereas the front brake (hand operated) and rear brake (foot pedal) are on the right.

It's due to the gear shifter and gear box position. The now standard left foot shift is a recent enough addition so you will see chains on the other side on vintage bikes. It would be interesting to know why bicycles all have the chain on the right. These days it's due to standard parts being used but why was the right side chosen?

Wishbone Ash

Pigeon Reaper wrote: »

... It would be interesting to know why bicycles all have the chain on the right....

Would it be something to do with the times when people formally mounted their bike on the left (to avoid chain oil?). As a child I used to watch my aul lad heading to work going through that weird procedure of placing his left foot on the pedal and pushing the bike along half way down the road before he'd get his leg over!

Or perhaps because most people are right footed and therefore their right foot/leg would be slightly stronger and therefore more suitable to have the drive on that side?

seamus

The traditionally favoured argument for the right-side-drivetrain is that the original cogs were all screwed on. So in order to operate a cog on the left-hand side you would need it to be reverse-threaded to prevent it coming loose. So it just made sense to stick the drivetrain on the right and screw the cog on normally.

Not necessary anymore for the most part, but like so many conventions, such as the Save icon being a floppy disk, the tradition remains long after its meaning is obsolete.

Or it could just be the case that they had to pick a side, and the left-hand side being the "evil" side, they went for the right.

Muckers

All my bikes are set up with the rear brake on the right. My original lapierre was set up that way, so I set up my other bikes the same way to avoid me going out over the bars.

iwillhtfu

Probably best to start a new thread this one's a bit old.

How long have you had the bike that you only noticed the issue with the brakes prior to your crash?

Also I don't think there are hard and fast rules about brake orientation. I swapped over brakes myself as I prefer the front brake on the left.

Hope the collar bone heals up and the desire for compensation eases.

smacl

12345! wrote: »

Hey everyone,

I took a bad fall from my bike - Long story short my break levers were set up incorrectly it seems and the left break controlled the front wheel.

So at the time I was taking a drink from my water bottle with my right hand (left hand free), the cycling group slowed down quickly (car overtook us and looked like it was going to crash into oncoming car) - I hit the break with my available hand (left hand which controlled front wheel) and came off my bike head first and broke collar bone (cuts, bruises etc.)

I hadn't realised that my break set up was incorrect but others in my cycling club pointed it out after the event.

Just wondering if anyone else had a similar experience and if so what was your approach when going back to bike shop.

Thanks

I don't think it is wrong so much as a matter of personal preference. When I bought my new bike (Rose), I opted for front brake in right hand as that's what I'm used to but default from them (possibly down to being based in Germany) is right brake for rear wheel. Sorry to hear about your fall, but I don't think there was any fault on the part of the bike shop. Also, you should really have sussed this before needing to use the brakes in anger.

cython

Have 2 bikes, when I got each of them, they were opposite from each other - Trek bought second hand (but original cables as far as I could tell) had front on the left, Canyon bought new had front on the right. Was a little confusing when they were opposite from each other and I was interchanging between them, but when it came time to redo the cables on the Trek I just swapped them to match the Canyon myself. Don't really have a major preference either way myself, and had the Canyon somehow come up to be recabled first I might well have just swapped it around on that!

Would second the comment that there is no right or wrong way for them to be oriented, just maybe a convention. Some other countries legally dictate how they must be orientated at point of sale, but no such requirement here (thankfully - seems like a wasteful thing to legislate for!).

Also, looking at that post, if you managed to brake hard enough with one hand while taking a drink to go over the bars, I have to think that had they been the other way around would you have locked up the rear wheel causing a skid and just come down by a different means? I mean I don't even see a mention of it being a habit from other bikes in your post. To be clear, I'm sorry to hear about your spill, but I'd chalk it up to experience and in future either make sure I know 100% what side the brakes are on, or ensure the shop set them up per your spec when buying it.