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India's Mission to Mars

  • 05-11-2013 11:42am
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭


    http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/1105/484677-india-mars/

    so India is gonna send a mission to Mars.

    This is a country in receipt of some $2100m in foreign aid in 2008 (wiki). A country with 81% of the population living on less than $2.50 per day. A country with countless domestic and foreign NGOs propping up the people and state.

    It is not my place to stop a nation forging ahead and I am a supporter of space exploration but part of me feels that India needs to get its house in order a little more before it launches such egotistical missions.


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,597 ✭✭✭dan1895


    Saw this on the news over the weekend and the excuse given by a scientist to answer your question was that experiments undertaken on Mars can be then used to benefit the lives of Indians back on earth!

    Didn't make sense to me either.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,528 ✭✭✭foxyboxer


    To Bolly go, where no man has gone before.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,376 ✭✭✭Anyone


    Thank you, come again.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 5,837 Mod ✭✭✭✭irish_goat


    Does Ireland give aid to India? Not looking to start a foreign aid bashing but I'd rather see our foreign aid spent in countries that aren't using it for space exploration.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,750 ✭✭✭iDave


    As soon as they get there they'll open a corner shop


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/1105/484677-india-mars/

    so India is gonna send a mission to Mars.

    This is a country in receipt of some $2100m in foreign aid in 2008 (wiki). A country with 81% of the population living on less than $2.50 per day. A country with countless domestic and foreign NGOs propping up the people and state.

    It is not my place to stop a nation forging ahead and I am a supporter of space exploration but part of me feels that India needs to get its house in order a little more before it launches such egotistical missions.

    Makes me Sikh.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,028 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    iDave wrote: »
    As soon as they get there they'll open a corner shop

    is that you Bernard?::D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,886 ✭✭✭✭Roger_007


    iDave wrote: »
    As soon as they get there they'll open a corner shop

    Or a call centre........?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10 paulgrogan


    It is not my place to stop a nation forging ahead

    It's only you against 1.2 billion people, I'm sure you're just underestimating yourself.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Make far more sense than there nuclear weapons program at least.

    However, while I think space exploration is a good idea, they really need to sort out basic infrastructure issues for the vast majority of there people. I think the government there really needs to get it priorities straight.

    IMHO, a lot of people in the middle and upper class in India, are more concerned with there country looking like a super power (or showing themselves to be better than regional rivals China and Pakistan), as opposed to lifting out the million still in poverty.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,376 ✭✭✭Anyone


    India is the 2nd largest nation in the world. I'm not going to go find the stats, but it would be interesting to see how they compare to the likes of China,Russia and the US in terms of poverty levels.

    Same could be said about the US,China and Russia that they shouldn't be spending money on things like this.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭ColeTrain


    Hopefully they keep the place clean.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,430 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    Generally the foreign aid goes through NGOs directly to people who are otherwise neglected by the state. Sure India should be doing more to help its people but the point is that it isn't and won't even if we withdraw the foreign aid.
    The UK has already said they are going to reduce.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,217 ✭✭✭TheIrishGrover


    I do see the need for funding sciences. Even if they seem to have no "real" value to the taxpayer. They broaden our understanding of the universe around us and discovery and exploration and quest for knowledge is an integral part of our humanity.

    However there should be priorities. India gets massive amounts of foreign aid, has crippling poverty, education and health issues. I don't say "Once every person is fed, only then should you pursue a space programme" but this is not right. I know it "only" cost a fraction of a NASA/ESA mission and, in the long run, a few hundred million would not help everyone in poverty in India..... But it could have helped a lot of people in one region maybe.

    I think it's a mistake and shows a disregard by their government of their own internal issues.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,886 ✭✭✭✭Roger_007


    Anyone wrote: »
    India is the 2nd largest nation in the world. I'm not going to go find the stats, but it would be interesting to see how they compare to the likes of China,Russia and the US in terms of poverty levels.

    Same could be said about the US,China and Russia that they shouldn't be spending money on things like this.

    If all scientific progress is to wait for every last person to be lifted out of poverty, there will not be much progress. This venture could bring in a lot of investment which would eventually be to the benefit of everyone.
    I do agree that giving charitable aid to India is a bit questionable.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,900 ✭✭✭General General


    India makes Russia look like a fair, just & well managed society.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 93,562 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Imagine wasting money on space in a country where 1 in 7 of the population goes hungry and relies on government food aid ?

    Now imagine cutting that food aid.

    That's what's going to happen on Friday, to 47 million people, in the USA.
    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/11/01/food-stamps-snap-cuts-farm-bill/3346341/



    http://www.yes-minister.com/ypm2x06-2x08.srt
    "If it costs £5 billion a year to maintain
    Britain's nuclear defences
    "and £75 a year to feed a starving African child,
    "how many children
    could be saved from starvation
    "if the Ministry of Defence
    abandoned nuclear weapons?"

    That's easy. None. They'd spend it all
    on conventional weapons.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 93,562 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    $73m is chicken feed when your GDP is $1.842 trillion
    Then again it makes financial sense
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/1105/484677-india-mars/
    The probe's $73 million price tag is a fraction of the cost of NASA's MAVEN mission, which is due to launch later this month.

    Analysts say India could capture more of the $304bn global space market with its low-cost technology.
    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/01/22/india_homegrown_chips_broadband_vendors/
    The government is planning the country’s first chip-making facilities at an estimated cost of Rs.25,000 crore (£2.9bn) because it’s worried about the risk of potential security vulnerabilities in imported chips.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,640 ✭✭✭Pushtrak


    Anyone wrote: »
    India is the 2nd largest nation in the world. I'm not going to go find the stats, but it would be interesting to see how they compare to the likes of China,Russia and the US in terms of poverty levels.

    Same could be said about the US,China and Russia that they shouldn't be spending money on things like this.
    Let's take the US from that. Lots of people seem to be of the opinion that the NASA budget should be cut. That wouldn't be very smart, really.

    http://useconomy.about.com/od/usfederalbudget/p/nasa_budget_cost.htm
    How Does NASA's Cost Affect the Economy?:

    A report by the Space Foundation estimated that NASA contributed $180 billion to the economy in 2005. More than 60% of this came from commercial goods and services created by companies related from space techonology. This means that each dollar of NASA spending creates $10 of benefit in the economy. NASA spending created the satellite communications which allows not only radio and television, but also telemedicine, GPS navigation, weather forecasts, and defense.

    A 2002 study by Professor H.R. Hertzfeld of George Washington University showed there is a large return to the companies work with NASA on its research contracts. These companies are able to commercialize the products developed and market them. The 15 companies studied received $1.5 billion in benefits from a NASA R&D investment of $64 million.
    Small companies didn't receive as much benefit, because they didn't have the ability to market the technology on a larger scale. The study concludes that NASA could create greater economic benefit by continuing the relationship with the companies they work with. NASA could also help open additional financial and marketing doors for these companies.


    These benefits trickle down to everyday life. Since 1976, there were 1,400 NASA inventions that wound up as products or services,such as kidney dialysis machines, CAT scanners, and even freeze-dried food. (Article updated April 11, 2013)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,537 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    wes wrote: »
    However, while I think space exploration is a good idea, they really need to sort out basic infrastructure issues for the vast majority of there people. I think the government there really needs to get it priorities straight.

    far more fun building aircraft carriers, subs and space missions though, just like every other country.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,204 ✭✭✭dodderangler


    iDave wrote: »
    As soon as they get there they'll open a corner shop

    Call it the Kwik-e-mars


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 18,184 ✭✭✭✭Lapin


    I'm all for space exploration myself but I don't see the point in a country with millions on the breadline spending millions on exploring something that the US and USSR began exploring more than 50 years ago.

    This is nothing more than an ego trip for India and a show of one upmanship in the bragging wars with their neighbours in China and Pakistan.

    Reminds me of a poodle pissing on a lampost to mark its territory long after the rotweillers stopped giving a toss about it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 390 ✭✭Rubeter


    Lapin wrote: »
    I'm all for space exploration myself but I don't see the point in a country with millions on the breadline spending millions on exploring something that the US and USSR began exploring more than 50 years ago.
    HA ha that makes "space" out to be this little spot just over there that we have already checked out.
    This is nothing more than an ego trip for India and a show of one upmanship in the bragging wars with their neighbours in China and Pakistan.

    Reminds me of a poodle pissing on a lampost to mark its territory long after the rotweillers stopped giving a toss about it.
    Our movement to space is as natural as our move out of Africa and into every corner of this planet, this insatiable desire to explore and learn about our surroundings is as much a part of our nature as walking on two legs and is quite simply, unstoppable.
    People can moan all they like but it is this desire that has given each of you the modern lifestyle and comfort you enjoy today.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 18,184 ✭✭✭✭Lapin


    Rubeter wrote: »
    HA ha that makes "space" out to be this little spot just over there that we have already checked out.

    In relation to "space", Mars is this little spot we have already checked out.
    We've been checking it out for over 50 years.
    Rubeter wrote: »
    Our movement to space is as natural as our move out of Africa and into every corner of this planet, this insatiable desire to explore and learn about our surroundings is as much a part of our nature as walking on two legs and is quite simply, unstoppable.
    People can moan all they like but it is this desire that has given each of you the modern lifestyle and comfort you enjoy today.

    I'm sure the Billion+ people of India without a pot to piss in are grateful to their government for investing in the "modern lifestyle and comfort I enjoy today" by sending rockets up to a useless ball of sand and rocks.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Pushtrak wrote: »
    Let's take the US from that. Lots of people seem to be of the opinion that the NASA budget should be cut. That wouldn't be very smart, really.

    http://useconomy.about.com/od/usfederalbudget/p/nasa_budget_cost.htm
    [/I]

    Great so if the Indians can turn a profit then they certainly do not need us to subsidize them. Not when they run a nuclear weapons program, space program, maintain aircraft carriers and submarines


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,430 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    Great so if the Indians can turn a profit then they certainly do not need us to subsidize them. Not when they run a nuclear weapons program, space program, maintain aircraft carriers and submarines

    Sad fact is that most foreign aid we give regardless of what country is goes to could easily be provided by the countries own government. Whether the country has space exploration, nuclear bombs, high levels of corruption or just uses every penny to buy weapons to attack their other poor neighbour across the border.
    It is not the governments that are affected when we cut aid, it is the common people living in the gutters.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,780 ✭✭✭Frank Lee Midere


    Lapin wrote: »
    In relation to "space", Mars is this little spot we have already checked out.
    We've been checking it out for over 50 years.



    I'm sure the Billion+ people of India without a pot to piss in are grateful to their government for investing in the "modern lifestyle and comfort I enjoy today" by sending rockets up to a useless ball of sand and rocks.

    Actually I bet there is more consternation on their behalf by westerners than by the Indian poor themselves. Lost in all this is the fact that space is an industry now - people pay to get satellites out there.

    People always complain about space travel, and always will. There's also a misunderstanding of costs. The costs to the government are the ( trivial ) initial outlays minus the money received back in income, sales and other taxes.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,806 ✭✭✭D1stant


    Imagine wasting money on space in a country where 1 in 7 of the population goes hungry


    Yep. Imagine a bankrupt little island sending aid to that country


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 18,184 ✭✭✭✭Lapin


    Actually I bet there is more consternation on their behalf by westerners than by the Indian poor themselves. Lost in all this is the fact that space is an industry now - people pay to get satellites out there.

    People always complain about space travel, and always will. There's also a misunderstanding of costs. The costs to the government are the ( trivial ) initial outlays minus the money received back in income, sales and other taxes.

    I'm not complaining about space travel.

    I'm complaining about the priorities of a country engaged in 'space exploration' while in receipt of foreign aid.

    The commercial gains to be made from sending satellites into space will never cover the initial subsidies governments plough into their space programmes.

    If they did, almost every country would have its own companies competing to transport matierial into orbit.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    far more fun building aircraft carriers, subs and space missions though, just like every other country.

    I know everyone else is at it as well. Its still a stupid waste, to be spending money on weapons and what not, when so many are living in poverty. At least the Mars mission may bring some benefits over time.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 143 ✭✭starskey77


    all them currys in a spacesuit not nice


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,026 ✭✭✭0ph0rce0


    Indian Astronauts will be on 0.10 cent an hour.

    Makes sense really.

    First Call Center on Mars Maybe??


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,163 ✭✭✭✭danniemcq


    All this talk of how much money they spent etc

    for the record the entire mission costs less ($78 million) than it took to make "Gravity" ($100 million)

    now when you throw the benefits that come from any Science program be it space, the LHC or anything really you have to ask what do you prefer. The benefit of mankind or you spending 2 hours on your arse in the dark eating overly expensive food and then complaining to your friends about some mistake or piece of acting.

    Yes India receive foreign aid, yes maybe the money could be spread better but the same could be said of ANY country.

    How many big cities are failing in the states, how much debt are they in but they still fund (albeit a small amount of tax per $) on space exploration.

    And those comparing it to military expenditure you run into another issue. Those tanks/guns/bombs have to be created, therefore lots of jobs. Heck the military even said "no more tanks" so they got more tanks because it kept 3000 people in jobs in Ohio (important political state so Congress wanted to keep them sweet)

    Its a horribly messed up world we live in.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,436 ✭✭✭c_man


    Don't mind this considering their budget for nuclear weapons and a huge army.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,220 ✭✭✭✭biko


    India rocks.
    I'd live there if I could drink the water.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,485 ✭✭✭Thrill


    iDave wrote: »
    As soon as they get there they'll open a corner shop


    And when we send our first rocket there we'll open the first Mars bar.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,075 ✭✭✭Wattle




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 390 ✭✭Rubeter


    Lapin wrote: »
    In relation to "space", Mars is this little spot we have already checked out.
    We've been checking it out for over 50 years.
    And we will continue to do so because that's what we do, our desire to explore is one of the reasons we are so sucessfull as a species.
    I'm sure the Billion+ people of India without a pot to piss in are grateful to their government for investing in the "modern lifestyle and comfort I enjoy today" by sending rockets up to a useless ball of sand and rocks.
    Yea, sand and rocks are quite useless. :rolleyes:


  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,731 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    A Mars exploration program costs less than Mesut Özil. Something's not right there.
    In fact, Zlatan Ibrahimovic could pay for the mission with just one year's income tax.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 93,562 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    D1stant wrote: »
    Yep. Imagine a bankrupt little island sending aid to that country
    I didn't realise we sent aid to the USA ?

    Apart from all the US corporations based here to avoid US tax.



    We don't give aid to the Indian government either.


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