Bought faulty car privately, any comeback?

gemini_girl

My husband bought a 2nd hand car off someone on adverts 14 days ago. 3 days ago a light came on the dash so got diagnostics on it today & basically the gearbox is gone. Will cost 2k for reconditioned gearbox, bought the car for 1.5k. On the day the car drove fine & there was no lights on the dash however someone told me today that sometimes the lights can be turned off? Anyway, has my husband any comeback here? I know people will say he should've brought a mechanic but even if we did would the mechanic have found this fault with no warning lights. He hasn't contacted the seller yet as he is waiting for full printed out report from the garage in the morning. Would appreciate any advice as we have no other money & will be walking 3 hours with a buggy from tomorrow just to get my child to school so am stressed out. Thanks in advance

For Forks Sake

WhiteTiger wrote: »

My husband bought a 2nd hand car off someone on adverts 14 days ago. 3 days ago a light came on the dash so got diagnostics on it today & basically the gearbox is gone. Will cost 2k for reconditioned gearbox, bought the car for 1.5k. On the day the car drove fine & there was no lights on the dash however someone told me today that sometimes the lights can be turned off? Anyway, has my husband any comeback here? I know people will say he should've brought a mechanic but even if we did would the mechanic have found this fault with no warning lights. He hasn't contacted the seller yet as he is waiting for full printed out report from the garage in the morning. Would appreciate any advice as we have no other money & will be walking 3 hours with a buggy from tomorrow just to get my child to school so am stressed out. Thanks in advance

Short answer, no. Sold as seen for private sale. Only exception is if you can prove the seller knew there was a preexisting fault at the time of sale. Which seeing as no mechanic looked the car over on your part ain't going to be possible to prove.

Stheno

With a private sale it really is buyer beware.

Your best hope is to contact the seller and see if they are willing to come to some accommodation with you.

Good luck

colm_mcm

Get a second opinion from a gearbox specialist. With respect to them, a lot of Irish mechanics aren't that familiar with auto boxes.

What sort of car is it?

freshpopcorn

People in these cases often say caveat emptor.

gemini_girl

I guessed as much :-( We've literally just scraped ourselves out of 5 yrs of debt, both out of work etc so I am gutted that we've basically just thrown away 1.5 k! Do any places buy cars with problems to fix them & sell them on? Its a 03 automatic renault scenic (incase anyone knows) Thanks

gemini_girl

colm_mcm wrote: »

Get a second opinion from a gearbox specialist. With respect to them, a lot of Irish mechanics aren't that familiar with auto boxes.

What sort of car is it?

Its a 03 Renault Scenic 1.6 petrol automatic. My husband hates autos because we have no luck with them but I'm afraid to drive a manual, will have to now!

colm_mcm

Are there any symptoms apart from the light, was the garage able to plug it in and do a diagnostic?

Do you know how the deduced that it needs a new box?

Is it the 96-03 shape or the 03-09 shape?

I know you know this now, but you need to be so careful buying cars, you got stung earlier in the year too IIRC.

gemini_girl

colm_mcm wrote: »

Are there any symptoms apart from the light, was the garage able to plug it in and do a diagnostic?

Do you know how the deduced that it needs a new box?

Is it the 96-03 shape or the 03-09 shape?

When the light came on the revs wouldn't go past 2000 & the gears wouldn't change. Had to take it to a Renault garage who plugged it in & done diagnostics. They rang husband this evening saying its very bad, metal shavings & burnt oil inside the gearbox. Will explain in more detail when husband goes to garage in the morning for report.
Its the older shape 96 - 03

colm_mcm

Next step is try a gearbox specialist, main dealer just wants to sell new cars and parts. Try Naas gearbox centre or similar.

Scortho

WhiteTiger wrote: »

When the light came on the revs wouldn't go past 2000 & the gears wouldn't change. Had to take it to a Renault garage who plugged it in & done diagnostics. They rang husband this evening saying its very bad, metal shavings & burnt oil inside the gearbox. Will explain in more detail when husband goes to garage in the morning for report.
Its the older shape 96 - 03

A Renault garage? For a 10 year + car? :eek:
Yeah that's why the gearbox would be 2k.
Take it to an Indy (that's well regarded) in your area and get a second opinion.

colm_mcm

You're in cork OP?

gemini_girl

Thanks I'm in cork but will get googling. At this stage I don't think its possible to get a cheap automatic that hasn't a problem!

gemini_girl

Scortho wrote: »

A Renault garage? For a 10 year + car? :eek:
Yeah that's why the gearbox would be 2k.
Take it to an Indy (that's well regarded) in your area and get a second opinion.

We rang around a few independent garages this morning & they all said to take it to a Renault garage for proper diagnostics

Bpmull

As said get a second opinion. Main Dealers aren't always right. My dad brought a Renault master to a Renault garage maybe two years ago as there was a noise he knew it wasn't serious. The garage said the gearbox was gone and it needed a new one at a 2k cost or whatever my dad laughed at him it turned out to be a rear wheel bearing 100 quid. So hopefully when you get the second opinion it won't be as expensive to fix. I'm not saying its a wheel bearing that's causing the trouble in your case it obviously isn't that was just to show how some (not all) main dealers just want to sell new parts or hope that you will just buy a new car with them as colm said.

colm_mcm

WhiteTiger wrote: »

Thanks I'm in cork but will get googling. At this stage I don't think its possible to get a cheap automatic that hasn't a problem!

Despite its name, naas gearbox centre is in cork too. In the lough.


First thing I'd do is get the fluid changed and a new filter put in.

pred racer

WhiteTiger wrote: »

When the light came on the revs wouldn't go past 2000 & the gears wouldn't change. Had to take it to a Renault garage who plugged it in & done diagnostics. They rang husband this evening saying its very bad, metal shavings & burnt oil inside the gearbox. Will explain in more detail when husband goes to garage in the morning for report.
Its the older shape 96 - 03

As Colm said, try a gearbox specialist, you never know, maybe an oil and filter change might keep it going a while longer.

corktina

obviously you aren't going to spend 2k on it or anything close to it.

Clutching at a straws approach.....Disconnect the battery for 5 minutes and see if it will drive once you reconnect it (worth a shot). If you can get it to drive, run it until it stops and then sell it for spares or repair...you'd surely get €500 for it.

OR

would it be worth changing the gearbox fluid? it might drive with clean oil maybe? (Just a non-expert idea you understand)

Irish secondhand cars are a lottery, many people never service their cars and sell them on DD when they start to go wrong.

( others said the same whilst I was typing)

colm_mcm

Changing fluids can work wonders. Probably never got it before.
Could be a waste of time too but worth a shot anyway.

gemini_girl

colm_mcm wrote: »

Despite its name, naas gearbox centre is in cork too. In the lough.


First thing I'd do is get the fluid changed and a new filter put in.

Oh really?! Theres one in little island too but the lough is much nearer for me & the car is in the kinsale road roundabout kearys so would only be a 2 minute drive to the lough (incase car dies en route!)

corktina

that's what Edd did on wheelerdealers!

colm_mcm

corktina wrote: »

that's what Edd did on wheelerdealers!

What was that, the xjs?

corktina

was it the Porsche Boxer?

colm_mcm

corktina wrote: »

was it the Porsche Boxer?

Both I think.

Don't think he'd touch a scenic though.

bucketybuck

I see everybody is straight onto "Those nasty dealers are just trying to scam you". This forum is very predictable.

Anyway, I'm sorry OP, but if the garage checked the oil and found metal filings in it, then changing the fluid isn't really going to be any use to you long term. If there are filings then there is a problem with a gear or synchro, and they are not skin or bone, they won't heal themselves over time. The most likely occurance is that they continue to wear until they go bang.

The reason they quoted 2k+ is that if you are going to repair an auto box at all then you repair it right, ie: you overhaul it. Remove the box, strip it down, replace any worn parts then rebuild and refit. No reputable gearbox repairer will just replace the one damaged cone/ring/gear/synchro, its a false economy.

You can indeed get a second opinion, and perhaps should do. But this is just to give you a picture of what happens with gearboxes, and if there is filings in the oil then I suspect you are looking at worst case scenario.

colm_mcm

It's normal to find some metal filings in there, it could be full of lumps, who knows. It could well need a new box but as I said earlier a gearbox specialist is the best person to make that call.

Given the value of the OPs car vs the cost of repair its hard to recommend she just go ahead with what the main dealer recommends,

Mech1

colm_mcm wrote: »

Both I think.

Don't think he'd touch a scenic though.

In all fairness a lot of indys including myself wouldnt touch a auto scenic or even a manual.its just too risky to get involved in repairing these cars if you dont know the full history of it.

I heard that Renault where subsidizing their dealers for scenic trade ins in order to help make them repairable other than financial write offs.

corktina

It could indeed need a new box, but the car only cost €1500, he isn't going to spend 2k on it now is he! If changing the fluid meant he could get a few onths use out of it, then all his money wouldn't be lost. Worth a try for a small price surely.

Very few people said anything about the Dealer scamming him btw. Most of us are trying to help

gemini_girl

Any idea how much I could try selling it for parts? The body & interior etc is immaculate, seems such a waste as it looks perfect. Had a look on carzone & similar cars are selling for apx 3k (with working gearboxes I presume!). Where would be a good place to start?

colm_mcm

Car isn't worth 1.5 even if it was running right. Value if the gearbox goes wallop is approx €200.

The ones for €3k aren't selling, they're asking.

bazz26

Someone asking for €3k on carzone and actually getting €3k for one are two different things.

Mech1

WhiteTiger wrote: »

Any idea how much I could try selling it for parts? The body & interior etc is immaculate, seems such a waste as it looks perfect. Had a look on carzone & similar cars are selling for apx 3k (with working gearboxes I presume!). Where would be a good place to start?

Good place to start, is Gearbox fluid flush and filter, then different garage for a diagnosis, then 2nd hand gearbox if thats the fault, then sell it.

Scortho

Could be worth trying to get a second hand box?

gemini_girl

colm_mcm wrote: »

Car isn't worth 1.5 even if it was running right. Value if the gearbox goes wallop is approx €200.

The ones for €3k aren't selling, they're asking.

Automatics always seem to be priced higher than manuals so I would've thought 1.5k was a good price for a 03 scenic (a working one )

BorneTobyWilde

This is a common fault on these car's, It a case of no one really knowing the fault so they suggest ' replace the whole gearbox''
Could be something as simple as oil level, or the hydraulic valve on the gearbox.
Mechanically gearbox is fine, I mean it can't be broken one minute , and fix it self the next, so it much be a part on the gearbox with an intermittent fault

Stheno

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

This is a common fault on these car's, It a case of no one really knowing the fault so they suggest ' replace the whole gearbox''
Could be something as simple as oil level, or the hydraulic valve on the gearbox.
Mechanically gearbox is fine, I mean it can't be broken one minute , and fix it self the next, so it much be a part on the gearbox with an intermittent fault

For the OP it was more a case of it was working fine one minute then broken the next, same happened to my OP with a clutch on our first holiday together

@ OP car is worth scrap in it's current condition, take all the advice on here ref. garages to contact and see if small work like change of gearbox oil etc will help.

I'd also recommend seeing if you can source a second hand box with a warranty from the likes of Traynors, or Caldwells, just google them both. You'd get the part with a warranty for far less than quoted, and then just have the labour.

It's horrible to be in your situation, work hard to get out of debt, then have the cash to treat yourself and your family to a car, and end up in this situation, regardless of the fact that you yourself made mistakes in your purchase.

I hope it all ends positively for you

BMJD

search adverts.ie and donedeal.ie for Scenics being broken, this one is the first result I got on adverts, been up a while and someone asked about the gearbox 3 weeks ago so it may be gone (assuming it's the right model)

http://www.adverts.ie/3318301

just keep searching
http://www.adverts.ie/for-sale/q_scenic+breaking/


something will show up if you do indeed need a gearbox

BorneTobyWilde

I think 30 posters should give her 50 euro each, so she gets her 1500 back

Mech1

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

I think 30 posters should give her 50 euro each, so she gets her 1500 back

I will consider it if you get the ball rolling.

Andrewf20

Id try the breakers yards also. Theres a big one in Kilcock that I used to get a replacement manual box for 300 euro, sold as seen.You can ring them up, all parts are documented. Also traynors up north might be a goer too.

Stheno

Mech1 wrote: »

I will consider it if you get the ball rolling.

I would too if the OP proves genuine (sorry bit cynical)

power pants

bucketybuck wrote: »

I see everybody is straight onto "Those nasty dealers are just trying to scam you". This forum is very predictable.

Anyway, I'm sorry OP, but if the garage checked the oil and found metal filings in it, then changing the fluid isn't really going to be any use to you long term. If there are filings then there is a problem with a gear or synchro, and they are not skin or bone, they won't heal themselves over time. The most likely occurance is that they continue to wear until they go bang.

The reason they quoted 2k+ is that if you are going to repair an auto box at all then you repair it right, ie: you overhaul it. Remove the box, strip it down, replace any worn parts then rebuild and refit. No reputable gearbox repairer will just replace the one damaged cone/ring/gear/synchro, its a false economy.

You can indeed get a second opinion, and perhaps should do. But this is just to give you a picture of what happens with gearboxes, and if there is filings in the oil then I suspect you are looking at worst case scenario.

I worked in a main dealer for over a year in the service/ parts jobcard and billing for a couple of years and I have to agree as well. Despite the often negative opinions about them I found the place I was in was very very honest to the customer. As I built the majority of the job cards too I could see every labour and parts cost etc

In your case OP as everyone has said id go to an independent to save money

As you already know, you have no comeback but Id still ring them up, be very polite and not demanding or accusing and see where it gets you, if they are having none of it,put the phone down and forget about it. No harm done in trying. chances are they did know and don't care.

colm_mcm

Chances that the seller wasn't the owner and just flipped a 'cars for cash' junker?
Google his number and see what you get OP.

wonski

You really need a second opinion, not because the Renault dealer is incompetent (not saying they are competent enough, too), but simply because it is the most expensive action you can take.
I went to them twice since I own Scenic (not an auto). Getting a radio code - 20 euro, ignition coil (1 unit) - 95 euro in 2010. At the same time the saleman convinced me it is an upgraded unit, that isn't so prone to fail. Needless to say the ebay version served me well for next 3 years, after I had to change the one again:mad: (and paid less than half of their 95 euro for the set of four:D)
Their working hour (in 2010) was 120/h euro iirc.
Get a second opinion/quote.

wonski

power pants wrote: »

I worked in a main dealer for over a year in the service/ parts jobcard and billing for a couple of years and I have to agree as well. Despite the often negative opinions about them I found the place I was in was very very honest to the customer. As I built the majority of the job cards too I could see every labour and parts cost etc

In your case OP as everyone has said id go to an independent to save money

As you already know, you have no comeback but Id still ring them up, be very polite and not demanding or accusing and see where it gets you, if they are having none of it,put the phone down and forget about it. No harm done in trying. chances are they did know and don't care.

Your advice is sound, up to the point of contacting the seller. If they knew and - as You say - don't care, they don't care. If they didn't know, what is the difference? They are not going to put money towards the repair, are they?

lomb

Can these be repaired with a manual gearbox conversion ?
I wouldnt expect a gearbox fitted to be more than 400 euros from an indi.

Bigus

wonski wrote: »

Your advice is sound, up to the point of contacting the seller. If they knew and - as You say - don't care, they don't care. If they didn't know, what is the difference? They are not going to put money towards the repair, are they?

They might, even 100 or 200 .

gemini_girl

Thanks for all the responses. My husband has spoken to the seller (who sold it for his friend who emigrated recently) & explained what was on the report. The total cost Renault gave us to fix the car is 3500 euro! The guy said he will contact his friend who owned the car & get back to us & in fairness he sent my husband on his email address. I don't know if anything will come of it or if they will take the car back but I know as its a private sale we have no grounds. In saying that the car cannot be driven (problem with the brakes as well) so we have to try get some money back. Can a manual gearbox be put in if the car started out as an automatic? If there is no chance of a refund then we'll start pricing around for a 2nd hand gearbox or take it to a gearbox centre, rang a few but they only deal with manual gear boxes (we're in cork). On another note, has anyone any experience of learning to drive a manual after driving an automatic? (7 yrs in my case) I did try a few times but kept forgetting the clutch was there to brake etc. Im a nervous driver which is why I went auto to start with as there is less operating the car as such and I wont fly back a hill in an automatic etc

colm_mcm

Google the sellers phone number.

gemini_girl

Ok, the seller is selling another automatic scenic for parts only on adverts. It conveniently has no gearbox ..... The scenic for parts is a 01 car, can a 01 gearbox go into a 03 car? (sorry of that's a stupid question)

colm_mcm

It may already have....

Scenic 00-03 are the same, probably the same box as far back as 96.

Anyway. The whole story about the friend emigrating is probably nonsense.
Will you PM me a link to the other ad the seller has?


I see another scenic auto on adverts
http://www.adverts.ie/car/renault/scenic/2001-renault-scenic-for-sale/3537987