Baby proofing the house time!

Nicky987

So were starting to look at baby proofing the house and just wondering if anyone has any recommendations, tips and advice? What was your best/ worst buy? Any tips?

We will need stair gates (think we will need one that you can extend)
Something for oven as that is low
Something for fire surround (gas fire never on but hard surround)
Cupboard locks

Also tips as he keeps heading for the dog food and water

Anything advice would be greatly appreciated!

pwurple

We chucked out our first stair gate. It was one if those clamp ones... It kept coming off, damaging plasterwork with it. We got a screw in one, it is much more secure, and didn't have a bar along the bottom to fall over. We put it at the top of the stairs. We were renting, landlord had no problem with it.

We put a well padded rug at the bottom of the stairs, but no gate. She learnt to go up and down safely from the bottom.

We put cushions or a rug around hard surfaces like fireplace.

We didn't get drawer or cupboard locks, just went with telling her 'no' or distraction. Moved anything poisonous or dangerous away out of reach though.

Moonbeam

We put up a playpen fire guard and stair gates but that is it.
The stair gates were in case a half asleep child fell down the stairs.

Rachineire

Got great lindam cupboard/fridge/cabinet locks that don't screw in for 2.99 apiece at tesco which were perfect for us as we live in rented accommodation. Also work for cabinets with two doors on it. Stair Gates for top and bottom that we got secobd hand (those I would try and find second hand if you can they are so expensive and you can find ones used in perfect condition ) and we got a second hand fireplace guard gate that goes around the granite base of our fire and keeps baby from playing with it. Best baby proof purchase for us as yet. Anything else we just keep an eye and say ah ah or no and distraction.

xzanti

My advice.. don't bother with anything adhesive.. drawer locks etc.. they're all crap imho!

You want things that screw into place!

We have a few Lindam gates and they do the job great.. not to pricey either..

Xdancer

All we got was a gate for the top of the stairs. If we had a fireplace I would have bought a guard for that.
I never bothered with locks for the cupboards or fridge.....I figured it was more important for her to learn the meaning of the word no, she figured it out quickly and doesn't bother going near them now. Obviously we moved all dangerous/poisonous things just in case.

lmullen

We got the clevamamma fireplace cushioned surround and I have the fireguard stuck to the marble with adhesive velcro as she kept taking the coals out of the gas fire especially when I was bf so she knew it would take me a little bit longer to get to her! We have the cupboard locks on the low cupboards. I figure learning not to go near sockets is important my sister has the things first the sockets and they seem to attract the kids!

foodaholic

Clevammama also to an oven protection screen. Its a plastic screen that sticks onto the oven via suction cups. It brilliant - our oven is down low shes always touching it.

How Strange

I saw a you tube clip about those socket things and I've been telling everyone to get rid of them since. They actually make the socket live. A 3 pin socket is designed to have no current until all 3 pins are in use simultaneously.

I saw our crèche had them and told the manager to look up you tube and see how dangerous they are

sari

We kinda went the same route as pwurple. We didn't bother with locks on cupboards jut moved the dangerous things. We put 1 lock on the cupboard with the food on as he got older beause he would have eaten us out of house and home!! We do have fire surround open fire that would be lit a lot, I wouldn't bother with one if you don't have I fire lit.
I'm a firm believer in teaching children to do things safely rather than stopping them altogether.

How Strange

We did very little baby proofing either as a friend said it's better to let them get used to everything bring open otherwise they'll be obsessed with the cupboards. She was right.

We moved all household detergents etc up to a high cupboard over the sink and put a lock on another with shower gels etc in it.

We don't have a fire so no problems there.

The only thing I'm fastidious about now and which I'm constantly nagging my husband about is turning off the main switch for the hob and cooker. I've also gotten into a habit of mainly using the two back rings.

eviltwin

I would be the same as How Strange. We didn't use anything bar a baby gate which we had in place anyway to stop our dogs going upstairs. I never used anything else. Obviously just relocate anything that could be dangerous to a better place.

xzanti

How Strange wrote: »

We did very little baby proofing either as a friend said it's better to let them get used to everything bring open otherwise they'll be obsessed with the cupboards. She was right.

We moved all household detergents etc up to a high cupboard over the sink and put a lock on another with shower gels etc in it.

Yep, all the presses in our kitchen that are at his level are either empty or have harmless objects like oven gloves etc in them.. so he hardly bothers going near them.

CaraMay

We aren't taking any chances and have cut the blind cords, padded around the hearth of the fireplace, fire guard in front of the fire, padded edge protection on sharp corners eg table, stair gate at top and bottom if stairs and socket plugs (can turn off sockets at wall as well). All the presses are locked and have a guard up around the hob. I know junior is learning not to go near stuff but it only takes a second....

The tv straps are going on this week so he can't pull the tv onto himself

You can pick up some safety stuff in IKEA quite cheaply

sari

Please watch this in regards the plug 'saftey' sockets http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-WhFgaqCX0

cerastes

foodaholic wrote: »

Clevammama also to an oven protection screen. Its a plastic screen that sticks onto the oven via suction cups. It brilliant - our oven is down low shes always touching it.

where did you get this,

How Strange wrote: »

I saw a you tube clip about those socket things and I've been telling everyone to get rid of them since. They actually make the socket live. A 3 pin socket is designed to have no current until all 3 pins are in use simultaneously.

I saw our crèche had them and told the manager to look up you tube and see how dangerous they are

Not sure what this youtube clip is, muct look it up do you have a link?, but the socket is already live, there is a live wire in there, if you manage to touch that and earth it you will get some kind of shock. The earth pin just causes the live and neutral to be uncovered. So not sure what you mean by they make the socket live, it is live already, assuming it either has no switch or is switched on if it has a switch. If an insulated plug cover is in place it stops a child poking around in the earth which would uncover the L and N, where they might stick something that is conductive which could be a path for current to flow to and through them.

The current flows through the live into the device and out the neutral so to speak, if you touch the live and are earthed, the current will flow through you or take the shortest path of least resistance to earth/ground.

Sounds a bit suspect to me, I wouldnt rely on youtube for that kind of information, I'll reserve judgement until I see the clip though.

Edit, I've just seen a clip,http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-WhFgaqCX0
I believe it is the one you are referring to, I disagree.
Without a socket protector, a child can uncover the live if they managed to stick any object that would fit into the earth (top pin hole) they would then be able to be shocked if they put a finger or maybe more likely another item into the live.

With a socket protector, they cant uncover the holes as they are all blocked, I even tested my socket protectors which I got in a pack in boots, (its like the one the guy describes as the John Lewis type at 6:41) and it does not spring back out, not only that, I couldnt even get it back out using my fingers alone. Its designed to be removed using the earth pin of a plug, I really had to get my nails around the back of it and it was sore to do.

The fact is a good version protector (and probably even a poor one, as Ive never seen any spring back out slightly) with long enough pins or a properly working socket, I dont think this should happen.

None of the safety devices are an alternative to proper supervision anyway, I believe they give extra time to prevent a child that doesnt know better or hasnt learned, is time where they can be protected, time to discover them at the socket and then time to teach them why not, before they are electrocuted, the fact I had trouble removing one tells me, what I have is suitable, I wouldn't recommend anyone what to do, but I will be covering every socket accessible to where my child is likely to be with them.

What I think is dangerous, is plugs left in, a small child could possibly pull one of those out and get their finger around the back while the live pin is still connected to mains live. Ive seen adults do it, put their finger around the back to get extra grip and Ive experience where a person I know that did it got an electric shock, the white socket was left black from the bang with a white shadow where the plug was near it.

Im not an electrician, Im not giving advice, but I do have a trade, Ive worked with electrics on machinery in factories among other stuff,
Nor am I criticising you, but I think the socket protectors are the safer option, I disagree with the youtube clip.

sari

Oh never seen the other post about the sockets. I just posted the YouTube video it explain everything

cerastes

sari wrote: »

Oh never seen the other post about the sockets. I just posted the YouTube video it explain everything

I just found it, probably looking at it while you posted your reply with the link.
I disagree for the reasons I mentioned, Im not advising anyone though, I suggest anyone that isnt sure, go over to the electrical forum and pose a question there maybe?

I know I will be using socket protectors, couldnt even get mine off first try. Without a socket protector, all a child has to do is, get something into the earth pin hole, then they have access to mains live, if they can get a finger or a spoon or something conductive in there, then its possible for an electrocution.
With a socket protector, they have access to nothing, its up to the parent to make sure the protector functions and cant be removed and to check none have been broken.
I think its wrong to say they are unsafe, when the ikea protector is inserted, they show access being possible using a pin, a child using a pin to do that would already be dangerous anyway. To get access to the Live pin hole, that has the plastic plug protector already in the hole, seems less likely.

sari

No I think your missing the main point, the socket isn't live until something is inserted into all of the pins

cerastes

sari wrote: »

No I think your missing the main point, the socket isn't live until something is inserted into all of the pins

I am not missing the point, it is live
There is a live wire in there, I understand whats going on behind the socket.

It doesnt just become live when a plug is inserted, I saw the clip, it dont think it actually even says that, but it seems to be misleading people that dont know about electrics what is happening.

All putting the plug in does is, the earth pin uncovers a plastic cover that allows the Live and Neutral plug access to their Live and Neutral contacts, the socket IS live already. Thats why the earth pin on the plug is longer.

edit, Im not criticising you here, but clearly you dont understand a domestic socket/electrics, Its dangerous to think what you are saying, it might make people think sockets are not live until something is plugged into them, when in fact they are live.

sari

I'm going to speak to my father about this he's an electrician

cerastes

sari wrote: »

I'm going to speak to my father about this he's an electrician

Please do, I recommend it, I hope he should confirm what Im saying.
I actually think its unsafe for people to say the protectors are dangerous.
For a child to do what they are suggesting on the clip would mean they would have to be practically unsupervised to allow that to happen, if that was the case they could do as much harm to themselves without the protector in place, it at least is another layer of protection.

Show him this thread, let him read the posts from where it was first suggested and all about it till here, get back to us with what he says.

I cant see how they can be dangerous, I couldnt even get mine off myself, nor could I see anyway of getting anything into either the Live or Neutral pin holes on the type Im using as its completely covered.

edit; show him the youtube clip and see what he says too

I should say, the thing I mentioned about getting your fingers around the back of the plug as I mentioned in my earlier post, while its possible to do, there is an insulating material on the Live and Neutral pins on plugs, I just would not rely on it, my child goes around with a sippy cup and ends up with wet hands (and drinky all over the floor too), its possible that could make its way to create a path for current,and I believe reduces resistance to current flow too, hence my concern about plugs in sockets where it might be possible for the little one to get more grip and a tiny hand in between the plug and socket while its still partially connected..

sari

Yep will get back you on this.
Also I had the rounded ones with the little slot in them my toddler managed to remove it.little divil..I was in the room at the time

cyning

I have a fire gaurd around the fire: no way was I taking any risks in that one and we use our fire a lot. A spark gaurd that fully covers the fire (one of the ugly ones not my pretty one lol) to stop any toys with batteries being thrown in there. Or anything else for that matter.

I have stair gates top and bottom: I don't have a massive house she plays in hall and again I wasn't willing to take the risk of her climbing the whole way to top getting distracted and falling.

In the kitchen I have the cupboard under the sink with the dangerous stuff locked, the drawer with the knifes and the baking/sweet cupboard after an incident with flour! I have the other drawers and cupboards unlocked and one drawer full of all her bowls and cups and anything unbreakable she loves that drawer and it occupies her while I'm cooking

cerastes

cyning wrote: »

I have a fire gaurd around the fire: no way was I taking any risks in that one and we use our fire a lot. A spark gaurd that fully covers the fire (one of the ugly ones not my pretty one lol) to stop any toys with batteries being thrown in there. Or anything else for that matter.

I have stair gates top and bottom: I don't have a massive house she plays in hall and again I wasn't willing to take the risk of her climbing the whole way to top getting distracted and falling.

In the kitchen I have the cupboard under the sink with the dangerous stuff locked, the drawer with the knifes and the baking/sweet cupboard after an incident with flour! I have the other drawers and cupboards unlocked and one drawer full of all her bowls and cups and anything unbreakable she loves that drawer and it occupies her while I'm cooking

Fireguard around the fire, dont use fire, but its to cover the fireplace too, so its surrounded in cushions.
Gates top and bottom of stairs and into the kitchen, had the expanding type but replaced it with the screw in type at the top as it was pushing the bannister and the gate was expanding meaning it could nearly not be locked. Had to put one on the bottom as munchkin started to climb the stairs, not taking the chance either as falling from the top or from on the way up is just not worth it.

Foam door bumper on baby room door to protect little fingers and fitted cupboard catches/latches? on drawers to stop access to dangerous implements to stop access.

Im interested in getting an oven door protector, someone mentioned it earlier and I saw a metal grilled item that connects to the worktop (in Ikea) to stop pots from being easily pulled off the hob.

Moonbeam

Sari- Can you please do your research before making such ill informed statements in future please.

pwurple

cerastes wrote: »

The current flows through the live into the device and out the neutral so to speak, if you touch the live and are earthed, the current will flow through you or take the shortest path of least resistance to earth/ground.

In UK Ireland and hong kong we use 3 pin plugs, which go into 3 pin sockets. Live, neutral and earth. Current does not flow until live and neutral are connected together... by something being plugged in usually, which forms that connection within the device itself.

There is a safety feature built into 3 pin sockets over continental or US ones. The earth pin (the thickest and longest one). If you get a socket and take it apart for a look.... UK/IRL/HK 3 pin sockets are spring loaded. You cannot physically connect the live and neutral together until the earth pin is fully inserted, this releases the catch in the socket to allow access to the live/neutral. It's to prevent something being accidentally being shoved into a socket, it is a highly tested safety feature, they need to adhere to british standard BS1363.

UK/IRL socket design is the safest in the world. Not sure why you would want to override the safety catch with these devices. The socket filler devices fill the earth pin, and uncover the live/neutral. So I don't think they are any safer.

That being said, they are plastic, most of which are non-conductive... so they are probably not any more dangerous either. I just think they are a waste of money to be honest.


The other thing to note is that there is no safety standard or regulation for the plastic socket fillers.


Those socket safety devices make sense in the US, where you CAN stick things in and get a shock. But here, we have the safety feature already built in. No need for the extra things.

cerastes

pwurple wrote: »

In UK Ireland and hong kong we use 3 pin plugs, which go into 3 pin sockets. Live, neutral and earth. Current does not flow until live and neutral are connected together...

by something being plugged in usually, which forms that connection within the device itself.

There is a safety feature built into 3 pin sockets over continental or US ones. The earth pin (the thickest and longest one). If you get a socket and take it apart for a look.... UK/IRL/HK 3 pin sockets are spring loaded. You cannot physically connect the live and neutral together until the earth pin is fully inserted, this releases the catch in the socket to allow access to the live/neutral. It's to prevent something being accidentally being shoved into a socket, it is a highly tested safety feature, they need to adhere to british standard BS1363.

UK/IRL socket design is the safest in the world. Not sure why you would want to override the safety catch with these devices. The socket filler devices fill the earth pin, and uncover the live/neutral. So I don't think they are any safer.

That being said, they are plastic, most of which are non-conductive... so they are probably not any more dangerous either. I just think they are a waste of money to be honest.


The other thing to note is that there is no safety standard or regulation for the plastic socket fillers.


Those socket safety devices make sense in the US, where you CAN stick things in and get a shock. But here, we have the safety feature already built in. No need for the extra things.

I know there is a protective cover inside the socket covering the L and N.
No such connection is formed inside the plug by plugging in a protector or by opening or pressing anything into the earth hole, all that does is open the previously mentioned protective shutter! a connection is formed by a normal plug being plugged in through the wires of the device (lamp, tv, or whatever) being plugged in, through its live wire and back out its neutral wire.

To say a connection is somehow made when a plug or anything like these protectors happen to be plugged in is wrong, said connection is only made by plugging in an electrical device through its wiring, to say otherwise would suggest that most electrical sockets have some kind of switch internal that makes an electrical connection, this isn't the case (certainly not in most instances, although Ive never heard of such a socket, it wouldnt be impossible to design). How do I know this apart from seeing the inside of a socket? well if the socket is connected to the electrics, (DONT TRY THIS) and is removed from its backing, you would see the wires, without a plug in, if I put a multimeter across the Live AND Neutral I will get a voltage readout of 230Vac rms. So no switch exists in most sockets, probably all as far as I have come across.

ALSO, THERE IS A LIVE WIRE IN THE SOCKET, current will flow if a child managed to stick something in the earth opening the protective plastic AND got a finger or something made from a conductive material like metal into the LIVE pin hole if they were earthed, (Murphys Law, if it can happen it will) all it takes is for a child to be messing around with a spoon or something that will fit.

If you dont believe me (AND I suggest you dont try this unless you have an ambulance on standby with a defibrillator) then try it, (BUT I REALLY SUGGEST YOU DONT), let us know if current flows when there is no contact to the Neutral. At the least your RCD will trip protecting you, hopefully.

I think the protectors are useful in that they are insultors and wont conduct electricity, should be difficult to remove (mine are), prevent access to any of the pin holes and their contacts inside.

Please consult someone in the electrical forum or an electrician,
Despite what anyone says, if a child cant access the internal contacts with a protector in place, well in that case nothing can happen. Mine cannot be removed easily.
With no protector in place, its possible with a little bit of effort and curiosity to gain access to a contact, my child's fingers are still small enough to get into the pin holes on the face of the socket.

Even the youtube clip shows that a broken protector upside down in the earth pin hole leaves the live exposed, but that is the exact same as if a child came upon an unprotected socket and decided to stick a pencil or something in it.

Im not going to say anymore about this, I feel it is derailing the thread somewhat, but I feel it is misleading to see something on line like this and then report it as fact, as such I am saying, dont believe me, ask an electrician, if you feel they are not safe, dont use them, I know I will be using them.

pwurple

cerastes wrote: »

all that does is open the previously mentioned protective shutter!

/ Yes, that's the safety feature I was talking about.

To say a connection is somehow made when a plug or anything like these protectors happen to be plugged in is wrong, said connection is only made by plugging in an electrical device through its wiring,

Huh? You quoted my post, but did you read the part of my post that you put in bold.... ? As I said above... the connection is made in the device, not the socket or the plug. Where did I say the protectors form a current?

If I put a multimeter across the Live AND Neutral I will get a voltage readout of 230Vac rms.

Yes, that is correct. When you connect live and neutral in an AC environment you will get a current.

ALSO, THERE IS A LIVE WIRE IN THE SOCKET, current will flow if a child managed to stick something in the earth opening the protective plastic AND got a finger or something made from a conductive material like metal into the LIVE pin hole if they were earthed, (Murphys Law, if it can happen it will) all it takes is for a child to be messing around with a spoon or something that will fit.

The wire is called live, but it does not become live unless you connect it to neutral, as above with your multimeter... AC remember? No current until the circuit is complete.

And also, you would have to first disable the safety feature provided by the earth catch to get in there. So your spoon needs to be exactly the shape of a 3-pin plug basically.

Like I said above, the covers are non-conductive, so the only risk is that they are faulty, as they are unregulated. Sockets are tested and are regulated with their own inbuilt safety features.

cerastes

pwurple wrote: »

/ Yes, that's the safety feature I was talking about.

Im trying to not reply

Huh? You quoted my post, but did you read the part of my post that you put in bold.... ? As I said above... the connection is made in the device, not the socket or the plug. Where did I say the protectors form a current?

ok, fair enough, I interpreted your meaning of the word "device" as the socket or the protector

Yes, that is correct. When you connect live and neutral in an AC environment you will get a current.


The wire is called live, but it does not become live unless you connect it to neutral, as above with your multimeter... AC remember? No current until the circuit is complete.

OR if you are earthed and manage to touch Live, then it will flow through you, there is electrical pressure (voltage) present, if you give that a path to flow to ground, it will flow through you, it doesnt need a neutral to do that, that might make people think theyHAVE to contact both L and N to get electrocuted .

And also, you would have to first disable the safety feature provided by the earth catch to get in there. So your spoon needs to be exactly the shape of a 3-pin plug basically.

A teaspoon handle will suffice,

Like I said above, the covers are non-conductive, so the only risk is that they are faulty, as they are unregulated. Sockets are tested and are regulated with their own inbuilt safety features.

I feel that its worthwhile to respond to the initial person or people that say these things are unsafe. If they are checked, in place and not damaged they do a good job and improve safety.

pwurple

A teaspoon handle will suffice

Nope, it won't.

For your baby to be earthed, they need to be standing , barefoot, in a puddle of water... or holding a metal pole sunk through your house foundations into the earth below. Meanwhile, they have simultaneously managed to get the spring-loaded earth protector out of the way in a 3 pin socket, and get the right size metal rod into the the live outlet at the same time. Otherwise the current has nowhere to go, no connection made.

Now, I don't know how dextrous your infant is, but if they can manage that lot, I'd say the plastic cover might also be within their capabilities.


My point is that there are already safety features in place. Regulated ones. The claim that these unregulated additions improve safety in IRL/UK/HK systems is unverified.

foodaholic

I got the oven protector I. Inhealth.ie but I think that mothercare might do them as well .It cost €20

In regards to the plug protectors - my oh is an electrical engineer and he insists that we have them .

pwurple

foodaholic wrote: »

In regards to the plug protectors - my oh is an electrical engineer and he insists that we have them .

I'm a trained elec engineer as well (although it's not what I do now), and I think they are not needed.

So I guess we all differ.

Moonbeam

1. The issue of socket safety using covers. As stated, these are unregulated and may or may not be safer than leaving a socket uncovered. There is plenty of press material available if you want to form an opinion.
2. How electricity works and whether certain parts of sockets are live or not - some categorically wrong statements have been made regarding this, which if believed and acted upon may result in life-threatening consequences. It is for this reason that an intervention was made by moderators.

I think at this stage we have had enough discussion about socket protectors.

liliq

The only baby proofing we did was stair gates at the top & bottom of the stairs, and to move the really dangerous thing- knives, cleaning products etc. out of reach. Our fire isn't in action at the moment but I think we will get a nursery guard for it when we start lighting it again.

missis aggie

We also have safety locks/catches on all the windows upstairs. They don't allow to open the window all the way. As we have radiator's under the window it was easy for a toddler to climb up on the window ledge.

cerastes

missis aggie wrote: »

We also have safety locks/catches on all the windows upstairs. They don't allow to open the window all the way. As we have radiator's under the window it was easy for a toddler to climb up on the window ledge.

This is something I was thinking about, something that limits the windpw opening. while its not necessary for us right now, it's going to be soon as the windows despite having locks on, when unlocked can be easily opened and swung wide open. While holding my child, they are reaching for the key and handle, so I've taken to locking the window before I pick them up, but they are still reaching for the key and trying to put it in the lock hole, I assume its mimicking what they see me doing, but it concerns me, hiding the keys might seem like an idea, but I dont want the exit unopenable in an emergency or for them to find the key and open it when they are a bit older.

Where did you get this? whats it called? is it a metal bar that screws onto the frame?

I read somewhere before, that upstairs windows were not meant to have locks or be lockable and since having a child, I wondered had that really been thought through, as a small enough child could get access to a window and open it.

missis aggie

This is the link to the website:
http://stoptheburglar.ie/index.php/security-for-windows/window-restrictors/