If poor running form cause injuries.....

alexanderomahon

Been reading that poor running form can cause injuries but how can I know if I have poor running form and how do I improve my form?

RoyMcC

Alex a good running coach is ideally what you need - someone who can observe and correct.

There are general principles of good practice but they don't necessarily suit all and sundry.

RayCun

Stay tall as you run. Before you start, take a deep breath and pull yourself up straight. As you run, keep your chest and shoulders up, your hips forward, your head up and eyes focussed on the horizon.
Keep your arms and hands loose and relaxed. Move them in time with your strides, opposite arm with opposite leg. They won't move much when you're running easy, but the movement should be forward and back, not side to side.
Your feet should land beneath you, not out in front. Think of short, fast steps not long loping strides

Raighne

alexanderomahon wrote: »

Been reading that poor running form can cause injuries but how can I know if I have poor running form and how do I improve my form?

Hi Alexander. I'm a running form coach and here's a very "rough and dirty overview" of what it takes to change your form:

Step 1: First you need to learn what proper running form is (i.e. someone has to show you)
Step 2: Second you need to find out how you run today and what the difference is (film yourself or have someone film you)
Step 3: Thirdly you need to be given the exercises and cues that take you from point A (how you run today) to point B ("the ideal")

The problem with teaching and learning human movement is that whatever way you move today feels "normal". We call this "your default" and in the traditional learning model this is the stage of "unconscious incompetence" that we are all in when we first try to learn a new skill (this means - unaware of what we are doing wrong).

By filming yourself and having correct form explained you move from "unconscious competence" to "conscious competence" (i.e. you know now what you are doing wrong but not how to correct it).

Step 3 shows you the techniques necessary to bring you from your unique starting point to the form you want to achieve. This is called "conscious competence" (i.e. you know how to do it right, but only if you concentrate). Through several months of practice this becomes "unconscious competence". To get this process right requires as much feedback as possible (from coaches, mirrors, weighted bars, thin-soled footwear etc.) - any technique that will help provide you information about whether you are doing it right or wrong.

The greatest challenge I see is that people are unaware of their default. A runner may come into me and I tell him "stand up straight" and he'll swear blind to me that he is standing up straight. Then I show him camera footage and he has just lifted his head because his thoracic spine is locked. Every athlete is a unique puzzle, as Mark Wetmore says. When it comes to coaching cues most general ones are risky because one man's food is another man's poison - the reason is that everyone's perception is different.

If I say "run tall" - it will mean something else to you than to me. If I say "pull through", it may mean something different to you than to me. So it's a game of cat and mouse between coach and athlete - introduce the very minimum level of cues necessary to achieve the desired behaviour, provide as much feedback to the athlete as possible (observation, video, self-coaching tools) and control the process tightly (i.e. a classic issue is that you send a runner away with basically correct form, he let's 72 hours pass and forgets a few key pointers or misinterprets one element. He then practices that for several weeks and suddenly is in pain - when you check up again he's gone off on a tangent. So early in the process more control is better and one way to achieve this is to train with athletes aspiring to the same form). You can imagine the Kenyans - they get their perception of what running is from watching other Kenyans. I, for instance, got my perception of running from watching my dad heel-strike and running with a big pendulum movement similar to walking (40 years later he's had two knee and two ankle operations) and that's how I ran for 27 years. So when I first had my own form changed I had to be shown the ideal image to change my perception.

This can sound a bit overwhelming at first but it's really no different from practicing any other movement in any other sports - you learn it correctly and you keep repeating it correctly until it's automatic. Just as with a golf-swing or a bowling throw you need a skilled eye to help you analyse it. The effort put in and how systematic you are determines how quickly you get there. The quickest I have seen in my personal experience is roughly 3 months from introducing a brand new style for a runner to take 16 minutes off their marathon PB (the individual was in her forties, so age is not a major issue). The exception are very experienced movers who are so in tune with their own bodies and have such a strong intuitive understanding of correct movement that they can self-correct. Gurus such as Ido Portal, Tony Riddle and Erwan le Corre fall into that category.

RoyMcC

Hi Rene, hope you're well. I still remember my intro to hill running with you at Howth - the best bit was coffee at the end :P

Great technical input on this. In my initial reply I was careful not to be prescriptive as (a) I don't know enough and (b) I honestly believe a runner can only properly learn by external observation.

However, and in the absence of a coach, do you believe that the basic principles outlined by Ray can be adopted with greater or lesser success by your average runner who might be reading this? That is, self coaching?

Raighne

RoyMcC wrote: »

Hi Rene, hope you're well. I still remember my intro to hill running with you at Howth - the best bit was coffee at the end :P

Great technical input on this. In my initial reply I was careful not to be prescriptive as (a) I don't know enough and (b) I honestly believe a runner can only properly learn by external observation.

However, and in the absence of a coach, do you believe that the basic principles outlined by Ray can be adopted with greater or lesser success by your average runner who might be reading this? That is, self coaching?

Sorry for the slow reply Roy, everything comes to a standstill for me leading into a weekend workshop! Which Howth race was it again - the summer 2008?

I'd love to say there are cues that are universal but like you I believe a runner can only truly makes this transformation with external support.

To help provide an idea of the challenges with even the most, on the surface, commonsensical cues, I will just to go through the examples given (this is not meant as a criticism of Ray's proposal here - I am not stating this as fact merely related my professional experience). For example, as I first thought about this reply I thought that the "correct rhythm" (by setting a metronome) would be pretty much universal. This weekend reminded me of why it is not so - we had a very competitive triathlete on the course who is used to riding very high cadences.

When he hears a beat of 180bpm, he adopts a stride rate of about 190 because his perception of rhythm was different from others in the group. Some could not hear the rhythm at all and we had to rely to our "slapping technique" (!). That's the challenge we face - we need to know both the starting point and the desired end point (you need to know exactly what you want your athlete to look like and how he should look moving). Even after hundreds of hours of watching videos in slow motion and manually manipulating joints, you find new surprises. So it is a fine art and it is a pity that most coaches don't live longer as we'd all benefit from having them around for a few centuries.


comments on different cues:

Stay tall as you run - the issue is that tall can be interpreted in many ways. Athletes with locked thoracic (a large amount) often lift their chin, or rear backwards like horses. Athletes with tendency to locked knees, lock them even more. It depends on their unique perception of what "tall" is and the state of their current hardware and understanding of posture in general.

Pull yourself up straight - this is similar to the above and I see it every day I practice with an athlete. "Lift your chest, head back" I might say, which works for most but again someone lifts their chin and I will go "no, X, that's your chin, lower you chin and..." This is where it get's complex and you have to be able to assess with the naked eye the block. We often work manually directly on the thoracic spine area to create awareness as the athlete performs the movement.

Hips forward - the majority of people I see have locked hips, so unless they are first unlocked cues like these can create very strange postures such as pelvis chasing. Many runners we deal with are so locked that trying to extend their upper spine creates a counter movement in the hip and viceversa. All of these runners are entirely unaware of this effect until shown in a mirror or on camera.

Eyes focused on horizon - This should generally work, but it will not in itself achieve correct posture if the segments below the head are out of alignment.


Keep your arms and hands loose and relaxed etc. - this is pretty much what we teach except beginners are told that legs move the hands, not the other way around. You can see an excerpt below for our precise views on it.

Your feet should land beneath you, not out in front. Think of short, fast steps not long loping strides - We never focus on landing as it draws focus to it. The landing is an effect of the posture, rhythm and relaxation applied in any movement that involves being airborne. Apply correct posture, rhythm and relaxation and get your hardware setup right and you will land closely beneath you. We find that any attempt to consciously control your landing leads to tension, over-thinking and a tendency to turn into the running archtype we call a "push-puller" - i.e. a runner who applies a double-muscle action with their legs - first they pull the leg off the ground and then they "stamp it down". We focus only on getting the leg off the ground using the education and timing the athlete has developed through training his posture, rhythm and relaxation to achieve the right landing. Gravity takes care of the downward movement if you align those pieces correctly.


My colleague Tony Riddle very nicely summarised his technical model for running which provides the technical basis for our overall coaching model, so reading through that may help illuminate why changing technique requires a very methodical approach and cannot be done without attention to all details:


Tony Riddle's 10 fundamentals for running.

1.) The Foot and Ankle should be prepped using appropriate drills to understand your base of support. A good understanding of the axis of leverage and balance, are imperative to the selection of correct joint and muscle-tendon action to avoid injury.

2.) Video analysis is the most useful tool to gain the mastery of your own movement. The camera never lies. You might swear blind that you are running like one of your heroes but the camera will soon show you the harsh reality.

3.) All technical training should be performed both barefoot and in barefoot technology on hard surfaces to gain mastery of both external forces (Gravity and ground reaction force) and internal forces (muscle action versus tendon action)

4.) Posture is at the top of the hierarchy in all movement. A good squat routine should be used to prep the correct posture to stand, walk and run and implemented throughout the day. Seated posture is the devils work and compromises form. Hip and thoracic spine opening drills plus the squat will release the containerised posture that is the main culprit in sabotaging good running form.

5.) Running is a series of single legged jumps, first you must learn to jump on two feet before moving onto one and then progressing onto alternate supports. A great self coaching tool is to draw a line on the floor and try to remain on it. If your posture is out, you will find yourself drifting from the line. Head chasers will move forward, bucket pelvis chasers backwards.

6.) The correct rhythm in jumping and running is the offering of too much muscular action and not enough elastic action. Too fast, too much muscle action and too slow, too much muscle action. In running, I would recommend anywhere between 176 and 182 bpm to balance both of these internal forces. The use of a metronome will help condition the correct rhythm and the beep of the metronome is your cue to pull your foot from the floor not place it down.

7.) Relaxation is key to success with all movement not just running. Introduce parasympathetic breathing techniques before a run to help deal with pre performance anxiety. Minimise tension, minimise muscle tension. Whilst running, focus on relaxing areas such as; the shoulders, wrists and ankles. Imagine you are simply pulling a relaxed and floppy ankle joint from the floor to the beat of the metronome.

8.) Avoid pushing out of the back of the knees. Your knees are huge shock absorbers and should remain bent, not extended whilst running.

9.) Arms should match the rhythm of the metronome and hands held at arm pit level. Both hands and elbows should work in a relaxed circular pattern with the elbows brushing the side of the ribs

10.) Cycling, elliptical trainers and walking are all detrimental to the bio mechanical model of running and should be avoided as an over lapping drill in training. If you're a triathlete this would be impossible, but I would recommend for triathletes changing their cadence on the pedal to match that of running and apply a pulling action before dismount and change over. Cross trainers (elliptical trainers) should never be used for conditioning for runners, injured or not! There is no ground reaction on a cross trainer and you will encourage a huge pendulum hip action along with a huge rotational pattern into your trunk. Cycling is a seated movement that involves pushing and will compromise the upright bipedal gate in walking, running and sprinting. If you are under the impression cross training and cycling will maintain your cardio vascular fitness, try skipping or jumping on two feet for the same length of time at least this will over lap into the correct bipedal technical model.

alexanderomahon

Raighne wrote: »

Cycling is a seated movement that involves pushing and will compromise the upright bipedal gate in walking, running and sprinting. If you are under the impression cross training and cycling will maintain your cardio vascular fitness, try skipping or jumping on two feet for the same length of time at least this will over lap into the correct bipedal technical model.

Say it ain't so!!!!!!

I could not possibly give up my cycling for good. Could I just cut it back whilst changing my technique and then return to it? If yes how long would I have to lay off the cycling?

Thanks for the detailed response, it gives a lot to think about.

Raighne

alexanderomahon wrote: »

Say it ain't so!!!!!!

I could not possibly give up my cycling for good. Could I just cut it back whilst changing my technique and then return to it? If yes how long would I have to lay off the cycling?

Thanks for the detailed response, it gives a lot to think about.

Alexander, you can take some comfort from this part of the last principle:" If you're a triathlete this would be impossible, but I would recommend for triathletes changing their cadence on the pedal to match that of running and apply a pulling action before dismount and change over."

Similarly "if you commute or enjoy biking" then it is an impossible ask to give it up. As long as you are aware that the posture and biomechanical action of cycling is working against what you are trying to achieve as a runner then you can keep it - but the advice stands to ensure you reset your rhythm and posture after dismounting a bike if possible until you become skilled enough to seamlessly move from one movement to another.

It is no different from training any other movements side by side , so let me provide another example: as part of my education as a MovNat Trainer it was required for me to master several different types of vaults (split vaults, step vaults, kong vaults etc. - not pole vaulting!) and send video footage to our tutor. Even though vaulting is 100% compatible with running, it was difficult to practice both running technique and vaulting technique together for two reasons 1) time (none of us have enough) and 2) recovery (after a hard vaulting session the run the same day had to be scaled down).

So when you practice a skill that conflicts with what you are trying to learn, then you may well find you need to dose it down to a minimum. But it's not a permanent thing. Motor skills are very fragile in the early stages of learning but once they become embedded they stay pretty hardwired. Early on I could not do a split vault unless I trained it every 48 hours - I'd just get "amnesia". Today I can do one cold with no prep even after not having done one for weeks. Running will be no different. The more diligence you put into the practice and the more perfectionistic you are about "getting the small details right", the quicker you will succeed.

alexanderomahon

Thanks Raighne that all makes sense

thirstywork2

. Cross trainers (elliptical trainers) should never be used for conditioning for runners, injured or not! There is no ground reaction on a cross trainer and you will encourage a huge pendulum hip action along with a huge rotational pattern into your trunk. Cycling is a seated movement that involves pushing and will compromise the upright bipedal gate in walking, running and sprinting. If you are under the impression cross training and cycling will maintain your cardio vascular fitness, try skipping or jumping on two feet for the same length of time at least this will over lap into the correct bipedal technical model.[/QUOTE]

Ok a runner who has had a stress fracture and can't skip or jumping will have to swim or cycle/cross trainer.
I do believe that cross training or cycling will benefit your cardio vascular fitness,works the heart and lungs.
Looking at your reply there Rene I do think you over analyse things.

Peterx

It's good to have a few lads willing to "over analyse". The rest of us too lazy to do the research or training can skim through what the over analysers have to say and take out the parts that work for us.

I personally think cycling is fantastic for preventing injuries in runners but alas I only have anecdotal evidence for that, Raighne* on the other hand has the research.

Runners who refuse to bike will continue running on niggles and make them injuries, runners who can get their endorphin fix on a bike will get less injuries as they can bike off their niggles.


*As it happens I do know the bould Raighne but that's beside the point..

RoyMcC

Raighne wrote: »

Sorry for the slow reply Roy, everything comes to a standstill for me leading into a weekend workshop! Which Howth race was it again - the summer 2008?

11 Jan 2009 - it was a pre-series recce. It was when everyone bounded up a vertical cliff which was described as 'moderate' I decided I'd stick to the flat

Thank you for that incredible input. I'm not sure I can absorb it immediately but it's a great reference worth book marking and revisiting.

Take care, up the Cru!

Raighne

thirstywork2 wrote: »

. Cross trainers (elliptical trainers) should never be used for conditioning for runners, injured or not! There is no ground reaction on a cross trainer and you will encourage a huge pendulum hip action along with a huge rotational pattern into your trunk. Cycling is a seated movement that involves pushing and will compromise the upright bipedal gate in walking, running and sprinting. If you are under the impression cross training and cycling will maintain your cardio vascular fitness, try skipping or jumping on two feet for the same length of time at least this will over lap into the correct bipedal technical model.

Ok a runner who has had a stress fracture and can't skip or jumping will have to swim or cycle/cross trainer.
I do believe that cross training or cycling will benefit your cardio vascular fitness,works the heart and lungs.
Looking at your reply there Rene I do think you over analyse things.[/QUOTE]

Tony is condensing a complicated subject in a short paragraph (with the predictable risk of leaving many open questions). If you read carefully he is not saying to give up cycling - merely explaining that the biomechanical model of cycling and running are different and this can cause issues especially during the rehab or learning phase of a new movement pattern such as running re-training.

Plenty of our runners continue to cycle, for sport and commute, they just have to be aware of the points made in Tony Riddle's overview and we prepare them for that (as we do for every triathlete). One weapon we provide people in their arsenal is the basic training in the other fundamentals movements (crawling, jumping, balancing, climbing, etc.) to allow runners to condition themselves through these movements in the extreme cases were all running is impossible. We see stress fractures quite often in runners trying to change their style or go minimalist, so in those cases we recondition them without impact until bone integrity is sufficient.

"Over-analysis" refers to an analysis carried to far - so analysing more than is warranted. I grant you this is in the eye of the beholder and you have the right to your opinion.

I can merely relate my experience as a professional and the experience of my teachers who refined their methods in the decades before i met them. This experience and having done hundreds of hours of video analysis, tells us that this level of analysis is not just warranted but absolutely necessary. The theory is complex, the coaching has to be simple. This discussion has gone towards the complexity - as discussions online often do. I have to let practice guide me on what is necessary - as any professional in any trade would do.

But most of these details we keep away from our athletes - they don't need to worry about this - unless they ask (some people what to know the "why" of everything). My job is to make movement simple - I need to understand joint torque, subconcious/conscious mind interaction, levers, fulcrums, points of support and all the other technical elements - from there it's the job of a coach (including me) to communicate that in terms anyone can understand.

Raighne

RoyMcC wrote: »

11 Jan 2009 - it was a pre-series recce. It was when everyone bounded up a vertical cliff which was described as 'moderate' I decided I'd stick to the flat

Thank you for that incredible input. I'm not sure I can absorb it immediately but it's a great reference worth book marking and revisiting.

Take care, up the Cru!

Thanks Roy. Hopefully I'll be able to show you some of our work in practice some day - as Gray Cook says "until you've experienced something, you don't own it" so words are poor substitute really.

kal7

Hope you can access these images.

Poor Run.jpg

good run posture.jpg

Used them in a talk on run technique to tri club recently.