Match Thread: Newport Gwent Dragons vs Leinster Rugby, Fri 01st Nov 19:05, RTE/BBCW

molloyjh

A Test of Depth

Leinster are currently without 17 players due to international commitments. Add to that injuries to Richardt Strauss, Leo Cullen, Jordi Murphy and Andrew Goodman and that's nearly a full match day squad absent for the trip to Rodney Parade this week. There are very few sides in world rugby that could field a competitive side missing so many players. Yet from the team sheet below there are still a couple of international names, as well as a couple of internationals in the making. Leinsters starting XV, while not an intimidating line-up, is by no means a dud side. And again though the bench may not have the impact we're used to from Leinster sides it's important to note that it contains yet more home grown front-row talent. They may not be there yet, but games like these will provide these guys with the opportunity to learn the ropes of senior rugby without the same pressure of expectation given our threadbare squad.

This week they travel to Rodney Parade to face the Dragons, who sit just 1 place behind Leinster in the league but ARE trailing by 5 points. The Dragons bought wisely over the summer and have won all of their home games so far this season. They have also lost all of their away games though. Rodney Parade is never an easy place to travel to and with a weakened side this could be a really tough encounter for Leinster.

Michael Bent has moved to LH with Martin Moore starting at TH. The young Landsdowne man has really impressed this season and should be cementing himself as our back-up TH, and possibly over the next year or so challenging Mike Ross for the number 3 jersey. Tom Denton partners Quinn Roux in the second row. Denton is a significant drop over both Toner and McCarthy and really needs to be putting in a few good performances now as he has yet to justify his place in the squad. Shane Jennings captains the side and will hopefully be a lot closer to match fitness after a sub-par performance last week (albeit coming in at the last minute for SOB for his first game post injury). Rhys Ruddock has looked strong so far this season but questions will remain about his ability to control ball at the back of the scrum.

Leinsters back line has a very unfamiliar look about it. Cooney partners Gopperth at half back with the Reid-Fitzgerald mid-field again getting the nod. Leinsters options at 12 are severly limited, and the 13 shirt was pretty much a straight shoot out between Fitzy and Macken. The only other real option would have been selecting Reid and Macken in the centre with Fitzy at 11 and Tuqiri at 14. Zane Kirchner gets his first start in a Leinster jersey and will be hoping to make an impression.

This will not be an easy task for Leinster and having not been able to hit form with a far stronger squad they could really struggle against the Dragons tomorrow. I think the best that Leinster fans can realistically hope for is a LBP from what will likely be a very poor spectacle. If they can come through this game with points, or even a win, though it would be invaluable to the players themselves. And could also end up being invaluable to the team come May.

||

Zane Kirchner|

15

|Hallam Amos
Darragh Fanning|

14

|Tom Prydie
Luke Fitzgerald|

13

|Pat Leach
Noel Reid|

12

|Ross Wardle
Lote Tuqiri|

11

|Adam Hughes
Jimmy Gopperth|

10

|Jason Tovey
John Cooney|

9

|Richie Rees
||
Michael Bent|

1

|Owen Evans
Aaron Dundon|

2

|Sam Parry
Martin Moore|

3

|Dan Way
Quinn Roux|

4

|Adam Jones
Tom Denton|

5

|Matthew Screech
Dominic Ryan|

6

|Jevon Groves
Shane Jennings CAPTAIN|

7

|Lewis Evans CAPTAIN
Rhys Ruddock|

8

|Netani Talei
||
James Tracy|

16

|Hugh Gustafson
Jack O'Connell|

17

|Nathan Williams
Tadhg Furlong|

18

|Francisco Chaparro
Ben Marshall|

19

|Rob Sidoli
Leo Auva'a|

20

|Ieuan Jones
Luke McGrath|

21

|Jonathan Evans
Cathal Marsh|

22

|Kris Burton
Brendan Macken|

23

|Dan Evans

Swiwi.

molloyjh wrote: »

The only other real option would have been selecting Reid and Macken in the centre with Fitzy at 11 and Tuqiri at 14.

Which is what MOC should have done. Macken gets the HEC games, then unsighted, while Fitz wasn't exactly great at 13 last week.

In my 7 deadly sins for rugby, paramount is chopping and changing the midfield too often: too many centres used this season so far, and it showed last week.

molloyjh

Swiwi. wrote: »

Which is what MOC should have done. Macken gets the HEC games, then unsighted, while Fitz wasn't exactly great at 13 last week.

In my 7 deadly sins for rugby, paramount is chopping and changing the midfield too often: too many centres used this season so far, and it showed last week.

Yeah Macken at 13 and Fitz at 11 would have been my preference all right. I wonder is MOC just not happy with any of our options at 13 particularly??? Drico aside obviously,

former legend

Swiwi. wrote: »

In my 7 deadly sins for rugby, paramount is chopping and changing the midfield too often: too many centres used this season so far, and it showed last week.

Would that not argue for keeping faith with Reid and Fitz this week? i.e. give them a chance at continuity?

@molloyjh; fair play for doing a write-up on what must be the least glamourous tie of the season.

Swiwi.

former legend wrote: »

Would that not argue for keeping faith with Reid and Fitz this week? i.e. give them a chance at continuity?

@molloyjh; fair play for doing a write-up on what must be the least glamourous tie of the season.

What I was trying to say is I wouldn't have had Fitz at 13 last week in the first place. I count BOD, Macken, Fitz & Tuqiri so far this season at 13, and I'm fairly sure Darcy +/- McFadden played there in the pre-season friendlies.

BOD available => BOD
BOD not available => Macken

But the silliest selection of all was playig Tuqiri at 13

molloyjh

former legend wrote: »

Would that not argue for keeping faith with Reid and Fitz this week? i.e. give them a chance at continuity?

@molloyjh; fair play for doing a write-up on what must be the least glamourous tie of the season.

In our matches so far this season:

Opposition:|Midfield
Scarlets|Darce-Macken
Ospreys|Darce-Macken
Glasgow|Darce-Macken
Cardiff|Reid-Drico
Munster|Darce-Tuqiri
Ospreys|Darce-Macken
Castres|Darce-Macken
Connacht|Reid-Fitz
Dragons|Reid-Fitz

If continuity was MOCs concern then Macken would be getting the nod at 13.

And yes the preview was a little difficult to write this time around.....

sydthebeat

apart from Tovey, i know none of that dragons team.

Glass Prison 1214

Good to see our 20 year old TH Tadhg Furlong in the 23 for the first time, hopefully he gets a run out.

molloyjh

Swiwi. wrote: »

But the silliest selection of all was playig Tuqiri at 13

What's worse was the fact the guy had to be injured before MOC took him off. He wasn't fit, wasn't being utilised and was a complete non-entity in that game. Fitz was the only cover we had for him and while that wouldn't have been an ideal substitution it would have been a damn sight better than leaving it as it was.....

former legend

Swiwi. wrote: »

What I was trying to say is I wouldn't have had Fitz at 13 last week in the first place. I count BOD, Macken, Fitz & Tuqiri so far this season at 13, and I'm fairly sure Darcy +/- McFadden played there in the pre-season friendlies.

BOD available => BOD
BOD not available => Macken

But the silliest selection of all was playig Tuqiri at 13

I don't think MOC rates Macken at all tbh. I thought he did well in the HC but...

Swiwi.

molloyjh wrote: »

In our matches so far this season:

Opposition:|Midfield
Scarlets|Darce-Macken
Ospreys|Darce-Macken
Glasgow|Darce-Macken
Cardiff|Reid-Drico
Munster|Darce-Tuqiri
Ospreys|Darce-Macken
Castres|Darce-Macken
Connacht|Reid-Fitz
Dragons|Reid-Fitz
If continuity was MOCs concern then Macken would be getting the nod at 13.

And yes the preview was a little difficult to write this time around.....

Cheers, and yes 4 midfield combos. I think Darce/Reid share 12, BOD/Macken share 13 and leave Tuqiri & Fitz on the wings. Otherwise, I wouldn't mind seeing Fitz get a concerted run at 12, but in that case leave Reid well out of it. I really did not think Fitz looked like a natural ouside centre last week.

sydthebeat

Swiwi. wrote: »

Cheers, and yes 4 midfield combos. I think Darce/Reid share 12, BOD/Macken share 13 and leave Tuqiri & Fitz on the wings. Otherwise, I wouldn't mind seeing Fitz get a concerted run at 12, but in that case leave Reid well out of it. I really did not think Fitz looked like a natural ouside centre last week.

i think judging Fitz on last week so far is a bit harsh. No one looked good last week (SOB apart as usual).

Give him a few games at 13 where he can expose space and i think we would see a lot more from him.

ssaye2

sydthebeat wrote: »

i think judging Fitz on last week so far is a bit harsh. No one looked good last week (SOB apart as usual).

Give him a few games at 13 where he can expose space and i think we would see a lot more from him.

Even when he doesn't play he looks good

sydthebeat

ssaye2 wrote: »

Even when he doesn't play he looks good

man crush??

molloyjh

Swiwi. wrote: »

Cheers, and yes 4 midfield combos. I think Darce/Reid share 12, BOD/Macken share 13 and leave Tuqiri & Fitz on the wings. Otherwise, I wouldn't mind seeing Fitz get a concerted run at 12, but in that case leave Reid well out of it. I really did not think Fitz looked like a natural ouside centre last week.

I'd be ok with Fitz at 13 (even if he didn't look like a natural in his first appearance) if there was some continuity (and experience) at inside centre at the same time. Having himself and Reid there together though isn't ideal.

I suppose we have to look at player welfare and injuries too though. Drico and Tuqiri weren't available to play at 13 for the first 3 weeks or for the HEC and Fitz picked up another injury at the start of the season. Macken was really the only option for the majority of the season so far. It seems that as soon as he is no longer the only real option he gets dropped. He was dropped entirely for the Munster and Connacht games and is only really in the 23 for tomorrow because there's nobody else fit and available.

MOC must not rate the guy, and if not then we have a very big problem at 13.

molloyjh

sydthebeat wrote: »

man crush??

I'll allow it....

Swiwi.

molloyjh wrote: »

I'd be ok with Fitz at 13 (even if he didn't look like a natural in his first appearance) if there was some continuity (and experience) at inside centre at the same time. Having himself and Reid there together though isn't ideal.

I suppose we have to look at player welfare and injuries too though. Drico and Tuqiri weren't available to play at 13 for the first 3 weeks or for the HEC and Fitz picked up another injury at the start of the season. Macken was really the only option for the majority of the season so far. It seems that as soon as he is no longer the only real option he gets dropped. He was dropped entirely for the Munster and Connacht games and is only really in the 23 for tomorrow because there's nobody else fit and available.

MOC must not rate the guy, and if not then we have a very big problem at 13.

Yeah, well whatever the case, it's one of these self-evident truths that the midfield needs continuity to thrive. Stick with Fitz then, but if I see Macken at 13 next week...

molloyjh

Swiwi. wrote: »

Yeah, well whatever the case, it's one of these self-evident truths that the midfield needs continuity to thrive. Stick with Fitz then, but if I see Macken at 13 next week...

We've 3 weeks off now after this one so hopefully they'll use that time to sort out some of these issues. But even then there's just 1 game before the internationals are back and if Drico comes through unscathed there'll only be the Edinburgh game between then and February to see who MOC selects where. I'm not sure we're going to get much clarity until February at this stage. Unless ofcourse something happens to Drico in the mean time.....touch wood.....

Fireball07

sydthebeat wrote: »

apart from Tovey, i know none of that dragons team.

Rees, Prydie, Talei are all good players too, I think Way is decent enough too. Lots of inexperience but they have some talent.

Tox56

I'm glad to see them persist with Fitz, you can't throw someone in at 13 one week and then immediately drop them the next if they don't instantly set the world on fire (he wasn't awful). At the same time I do wonder if MOC has a serious lack of faith in Macken. Too early to say of course but it has become a trend, hopefully it's just case of seeing what Fitz can offer.

Also great to see Tadgh Furlong in a Leinster squad, even if he only gets 5 mins it will be great to see him in the jersey for the first time, one for the future


EDIT: Although looking at the forecast it's due to be hammering it down in Newport which is a shame

Foxtrol

Swiwi. wrote: »

Yeah, well whatever the case, it's one of these self-evident truths that the midfield needs continuity to thrive. Stick with Fitz then, but if I see Macken at 13 next week...

This is continuity to an extent, Darcy-Macken played for two weeks and now the pair of Reid-Fitz are getting two weeks. I think many people including Fitz himself want to see him having a go at 13 and this is a chance for him to see what he can do.

Not sure a Reid-Macken combo would fill me with confidence defensively either if Fitz was stuck out to the wing. I’d nearly actually be more open to a Fitz-Macken combination.

molloyjh

So are any other side in the Pro12 even remotely as badly hit as us due to the AIs? Looking at some of the squads announced so far most are missing several but that's about it.

Fireball07

molloyjh wrote: »

So are any other side in the Pro12 even remotely as badly hit as us due to the AIs? Looking at some of the squads announced so far most are missing several but that's about it.

Blame Joe for not releasing some fringe players.

Foxtrol

Fireball07 wrote: »

Blame Joe for not releasing some fringe players.

The only people to blame are the large number of Leinster players that are so damn good.

The core Irish squad needs time to gel under Schmidt I’d expect him to release more as the side settles.

Ireland > Leinster (both happy and sad to say it's probably the first time I've felt that in the last couple of years)

Fireball07

And you still have a very good chance of winning.....3/5 of the outside backs are experienced internationals, it's a decent half-back pairing, a strong back row and the Dragons are decent, but not fantastic.

ssaye2

Fireball07 wrote: »

And you still have a very good chance of winning.....3/5 of the outside backs are experienced internationals, it's a decent half-back pairing, a strong back row and the Dragons are decent, but not fantastic.

That's why winning the league was brilliant last year with so many players are away from the first team. The squad is stronger for it. Its a tricky balance to rotate and compete with players elsewhere etc but thankfully so far we are still competitive on all fronts.

Sprog 4

I bet Kirchner gets injured and it ruled out for the season

matthew8

Definitely feeling confident here. Backline looks patchy but full of quality. Denton is my big worry in the side.

Fireball07

matthew8 wrote: »

Definitely feeling confident here. Backline looks patchy but full of quality. Denton is my big worry in the side.

I'd have thought Bent at 1 would be the biggest worry...

ssaye2

Big scrum boom

Taco Corp

good first scrum, needed that

Tox56

Wtf? That was clearly still going forward

Grimebox

Why did the ref shout "use it"? They were making ground

matthew8

Great start for the props.

Fireball07

Try coming up here.

Taco Corp

so cooney hit jenning on the arse when ref called use it, should he just of gone for the ball and took it or was it up to jennings to give it?

wp_rathead

Some scrum

Fireball07

So why is Tuqiri wearing 14 when he was named as 11?

Woody1997

Cooney with two silly mistakes early on

ssaye2

Lineout good Ruddock taking everything

clsmooth

Ref very whistle happy. Lot of penalties so far.

ssaye2

Ffs

ssaye2

Need to score early Leinster look better

Fireball07

Very poor kick from Gopperth tbh. And then an even worse kick from the Dragons player, was it Wardle?

ssaye2

Peno again there will be cards

ssaye2

3 nil dead centre

Tox56

Interesting analysis from COS

Woody1997

What did 10 do that was unacceptable? Was it when he started complaining to the ref?

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

some of the fielding in this game has been comically bad

ssaye2

Poor under high ball breeze peon to dragon's 50m

Taco Corp

Woody1997 wrote: »

What did 10 do that was unacceptable? Was it when he started complaining to the ref?

yeah, pretty sure it was mouthing to the ref