Do you think it's still taboo in Ireland in 2013 to say you don't want kids?

Blano

I don't want kids & if people ask I answer honestly. Yet do you think it is still taboo to openly declare it? or like certain people may think there is something wrong with you esp. because ur a woman who doesn't want kids? I just feel in 2013 we should be able to be honest & open about these things & not feel bad for being who we are. For example I find cats way cuter

When I'm shown baby photos as a woman am I expected to be like 'that baby is so cute' even if I feel nothing for said baby? I just don't want to have to fake all these emotions I don't have. If people keep showing me baby photos, I'm tempted to start bombarding them with cat photos & pressurise them to make comments telling me how cute my cat is. That's what it feels like to a person who doesn't want kids.

Also ppl who say babies are going to be good looking - really how can u tell? I mean ppl do a lot of changing between the time they are 0 and an adult. Also looks aren't everything but I guess ppl have to find something to say about said baby haha

sassyj

Blano wrote: »

I don't want kids & if people ask I answer honestly. Yet do you think it is still taboo to openly declare it? or like certain people may think there is something wrong with you esp. because ur a woman who doesn't want kids? I just feel in 2013 we should be able to be honest & open about these things & not feel bad for being who we are. For example I find cats way cuter

When I'm shown baby photos as a woman am I expected to be like 'that baby is so cute' even if I feel nothing for said baby? I just don't want to have to fake all these emotions I don't have. If people keep showing me baby photos, I'm tempted to start bombarding them with cat photos & pressurise them to make comments telling me how cute my cat is. That's what it feels like to a person who doesn't want kids.

Also ppl who say babies are going to be good looking - really how can u tell? I mean ppl do a lot of changing between the time they are 0 and an adult. Also looks aren't everything but I guess ppl have to find something to say about said baby haha

That's what it feels like to you, you can't speak for all who don't want kids.
I don't, but I still have an interest in my friends/family/work colleagues kids. It's an aspect of their life as any other, and I find it normal/important to take an interest in other's lives.

Your cats are not the same as kids.

Dolbert

I do want kids but I've never cooed over babies/ toddlers, I prefer when they can talk to me The two aren't necessarily linked!

Jerrica

Blano wrote: »

When I'm shown baby photos as a woman am I expected to be like 'that baby is so cute' even if I feel nothing for said baby?

You don't have to feel anything for the baby to give a mannerly response I think a lot of people - men and women - are indifferent to babies unless they're their own or belong to someone close to you. I think it's fair to be expected to say something nice out of politeness if nothing else, but on the flip side it's not polite of the parent to expect you to sit through 20 minutes of photos of said baby eating yoghurt from 43 different angles.

Emme

I think it's taboo in Ireland not to be married or have kids by a certain age. Especially in the country.

hdowney

I think 'some' people (not all) will have problems with a woman saying she doesn't want kids. They seem to think there is something wrong with you as you are 'programmed' to be a mother. I find it is 'mostly' people with children, especially people who had children young because that was their main aim in life. Fair play to them I say, but every single person is different and it isn't fair to judge.

I am in the I'm not sure camp. I worked closely with children from the age of 15 and by the time I hit my early to mid twenties they drive me bonkers. I am still polite to people about their kids, and nice to kids if they are in my vicinity. But they do drive me potty with some of the things they do - although in fairness a good portion of it is down to the bad parenting you see these days, parents letting kids have free rein. That tends to put me off children. I may or may not have some of my own someday, but I don't like being judged on it.

I think it can depend also on where you live. I'd say some of the smaller rural towns, particularly in the west, still hold to traditions more than the big cities.

Blano

sassyj yea i agree not all who don't want kids feel that way, yea that's how i feel and prob some ppl that aren't in to kids may feel this way too, so yea i'll correct that not all, some may.

Yes it's good to take an interest in other's lives but I still think there's a certain expectation that one should be interested in kids etc. etc. and some ppl aren't. I'm not. To some people their pets are their kids. Some people prefer animals over kids. It can just get a bit tiresome hving to fake enthusiasm over someone expecting etc. etc. but yea i do say the minimum stuff out of politeness etc.

I just think society at large, not just Ireland can be very kid centric. I remember as a kid not particularly liking other kids too - just like adults, some can be nice and some not, some you get along with better, some u don't. it's all in the eye of the beholder I guess.

Yea that's interesting people saying it can be a bit more shock, horror to say u don't want them in some rural areas. I guess must be influence of traditions still carrying down a bit. Lot of it is prob. catholic influence historically too.

eviltwin

I have kids so can't comment from personal experience but I have two friends who are both married and childless. One by choice, one through infertility who has decided to accept her childfree status. They are late 30's and early 40's and I know they have never had any nasty comments. They are both very open about it so everyone knows kids are not on the agenda and if anything I think they get a lot of respect for their decisions.

Of course people ask why, but its out of curiosity moreso than a "you don't want kids?? what's wrong with you???" kinda way. People will ask especially if you settle down with someone and get married because its the way things normally go but I'd like to think most people would be respectful whatever your choice.

btw even though I'm a mother I find baby talk sooo boring, I will look at pictures of babies and say the right thing out of manners but really most parents have zero interest in hearing about other people's kids

Jenneke87

It's not just Ireland, where I come from, I get the "oh you'll wanna have babies when you're older"answer when I tell people I don't want children. Then I tell them I've been pregnant twice and if I really wanted to have children they would have been here. That tends to shut them up....

jackofalltrades

Jerrica wrote: »

You don't have to feel anything for the baby to give a mannerly response I think a lot of people - men and women - are indifferent to babies unless they're their own or belong to someone close to you. I think it's fair to be expected to say something nice out of politeness if nothing else...

Male point of view, people show me pictures of their babies and most of the time I feel absolutely nothing. I usually just congratulate them. Mind you it's different if you actually get to hold the baby.

I don't think it's unfair or impolite to say nothing/very little though. I usually just say "Yes" to the "Isn't he/she really cute" question.

meeeeh

It's a good sign this is the main problem (some) women have. It is the second or third toppic on the same issue. Just say you don't want them it's not like people will suddenly start slamming doors into your face. I would be careful with mentioning cats at the same time though. You don't want to create an impression of being on the way to becoming crazy old cat lady. In fact I think it is more of a taboo to say you like cats.

Fox_In_Socks

You should be polite when shown pictures of other people's babies, even if they do like an angry Phil Mitchell

The Corinthian

Blano wrote: »

I don't want kids & if people ask I answer honestly. Yet do you think it is still taboo to openly declare it?

If you suggest that you might not want to have children or to get married, some people tend to get very defensive about children/marriage. They're typically already married or have children and/or have a strong wish to get married and/or have children, from what I can see.

My guess is that they personalize your perceived rejection of marriage/children as an attack on their own life choices. Whatever the reason I tend to avoid such conversations, for a quiet life, unless by someone stupid enough to ask me "when will it be your turn?"

When I'm shown baby photos as a woman am I expected to be like 'that baby is so cute' even if I feel nothing for said baby?

There's probably more pressure to find a baby 'cute' as a woman because of how gender roles persist to this day. Given that, I fully believe that for both men and women, being asked how 'cute' a baby is falls into the same category as giving condolences or congratulating someone or whatever, when in reality you don't give a monkey's either way.

They're just little white lies to be polite.

wallycharlo

In my opinion there is certainly still quite a sizeable number of people in the Ireland of today who will sneer or otherwise look down on someone who does not wish to have children. These also tend to be the same people who may sneer at a couple who decide not to get married, or even to decide to have just one child and leave it at that.

Some people tend to feel that just because they themselves have conformed to what others may expect of them that this then obliges everyone they know to also do the same.

pwurple

People sneer in general at other peoples choices. I've seen people sneer at others for

Getting married (soooo old fashioned),
Not getting married (what are they, wanting to keep the options open or something),
Having kids (breeders ruining the planet with overpopulation),
Not having kids (too selfish to look after kids)....

in about equal measure.

Be assured in one thing, whatever you decide to do, there is ALWAYS someone out there who thinks it's a bad idea.

meeeeh

Ok one thing is sneering which can be done just about anything or something being taboo.

If anybody doesn't get the difference, imagine saying to someone that you are currently sleeping with your brother but not to worry, you don't want to have children. I think people's reaction will soon show which part is the taboo.

IvyTheTerrible

Yes, considering that if you are under a certain age, it's next to impossible to get a doctor to agree to a sterilisation procedure for a woman.

The Corinthian

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

Yes, considering that if you are under a certain age, it's next to impossible to get a doctor to agree to a sterilisation procedure for a woman.

This isn't limited to Ireland, I know someone in her mid-twenties who's been turned down for the procedure by various doctors in Germany, Luxembourg and Switzerland.

IvyTheTerrible

The Corinthian wrote: »

This isn't limited to Ireland, I know someone in her mid-twenties who's been turned down for the procedure by various doctors in Germany, Luxembourg and Switzerland.

No indeed. I also know it's common in the UK and in Australia.

eviltwin

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

Yes, considering that if you are under a certain age, it's next to impossible to get a doctor to agree to a sterilisation procedure for a woman.

I saw a post on a parenting board a few months back from a woman who wanted to have herself sterilized. She was told she would be forward for it by her GP - she already has kids - but was told her husband would have to cosign her consent form. Is there a similar requirement for men who chose to have the snip?

DevilsBreath

eviltwin wrote: »

I saw a post on a parenting board a few months back from a woman who wanted to have herself sterilized. She was told she would be forward for it by her GP - she already has kids - but was told her husband would have to cosign her consent form. Is there a similar requirement for men who chose to have the snip?

That sounds just like the last episode of "Masters of Sex" which is set in the 1950's.

For me, personally i never wont kids, but love my nieces

MurdyWurdy

I have a baby who I'm besotted with but I'm not big into cooing over stranger's babies. Obviously my friends babies I do because I know them, like them and interact with them but pics of others people's babies I don't know don't do much for me. I am a crazy cat lady (I day the cat is my first baby) and will happily look at anyone's pic of their cats though! You don't have to fake gushing enthusiasm at photos, just be polite and say nice pic or something.

I have no problem with people telling me they don't want kids, I always say fair enough because I know it is insulting for people to be told they'll change their mind. It's hard work and not for everyone and I respect that

lazygal

Some people have to tell everyone they never want kids, never, no way no how. That can be an irritant in and of itself. Most people really don't care whether you have children. I never felt the need to tell the world I wanted children. I find some, by no means all but a vocal minority, just need to go on and on about why they don't want children, like they need to hammer the point home in case you missed it the first time. I see it on boards too, the same posters explaining their choices all the time! We get it, you don't want to procreate.

meeeeh

But it's sooo cosmopolitan. Carrie and Sex and the City and all that ****.... wait that was the last century....

bronte

meeeeh wrote: »

But it's sooo cosmopolitan. Carrie and Sex and the City and all that ****.... wait that was the last century....

Why the need to be insulting?

Sometimes people do have to explain themselves a lot because it's simply not enough to say "it's not for me". Then you get engaged and there's a new realm of crap and questions that you get asked as I discovered recently.

Each to their own and all that.

meeeeh

bronte wrote: »

Why the need to be insulting?

I'm not insulting, I'm generalizing. And if it makes you feel any better I was exactly the same in my twenties. However I don't believe there is any special pariah category for grown ups who don't want children. And yes I do think classing it as a taboo is a gross exaggeration.

As for engagement, we are engaged 7 years, still not married and have two kids. So don't worry, when are you getting married questions die down after 5 years or so.

Edit: I'll admit I was being sarcastic in previous post and maybe even in this one.

bronte

meeeeh wrote: »

I'm not insulting, I'm generalizing. And if it makes you feel any better I was exactly the same in my twenties. However I don't believe there is any special pariah category for grown ups who don't want children. And yes I do think classing it as a taboo is a gross exaggeration.

As for engagement, we are engaged 7 years, still not married and have two kids. So don't worry, when are you getting married questions die down after 5 years or so.

Edit: I'll admit I was being sarcastic in previous post and maybe even in this one.

Coming in and sneering doesn't really add anything though does it?
It happened in the last CF thread in this forum too.

For what it's worth I think taboo is too strong a word and I'd hope in five/ten years nobody would bat an eyelid.

The Corinthian

bronte wrote: »

For what it's worth I think taboo is too strong a word and I'd hope in five/ten years nobody would bat an eyelid.

From what I can see, they don't so much bat an eyelid, but look on people over forty, without children, with pity because they never had children and so won't bring it up any more because they don't want to 'remind them, out of kindness, how they missed their chance' even though in reality, they may be very happy they did so.

So, that's probably the best you can hope for.

lazygal

The Corinthian wrote: »

From what I can see, they don't so much bat an eyelid, but look on people over forty, without children, with pity because they never had children and so won't bring it up any more because they don't want to 'remind them, out of kindness, how they missed their chance' even though in reality, they may be very happy they did so.

So, that's probably the best you can hope for.

I really think you're over analysing it. Most people are busy getting on with life, not mulling over other people's choices. And I find its not that unusual nowadays anyway, most of my good friends aren't married and/or don't have or want to have children. It's not a unique lifestyle choice among my peers.

The Corinthian

lazygal wrote: »

I really think you're over analysing it.

Not really as I've seen this as a third party; childless person leaves the room and then comments are made at how they never had children and wasn't that tragic. Bit 'in your face' to require much analysis.

lazygal

The Corinthian wrote: »

Not really as I've seen this as a third party; childless person leaves the room and then comments are made at how they never had children and wasn't that tragic. Bit 'in your face' to require much analysis.

And I've never come across it. Maybe the circles you mix in are all about the kids. Me and my friends/family have more to talk about than other people's procreation or lack thereof.

What do you say when the talk turns to those who are childfree and why?

The Corinthian

lazygal wrote: »

And I've never come across it. Maybe the circles you mix in are all about the kids.

The circles I mix in? I doubt it; the few times I've seen such carry on would be from the sort of people who would frown on being a certain age and not settling down and starting a family.

So other than my parents generation and even some of my own (certain wives of friends who increasingly dislike that their husbands still have unmarried friends), it's not something I hear very often. Then again, neither have I come across too often those who'll look at you as some sort of wierdo for not having settled down and started a family.

But I have come across them and they do exist, hence this discussion in the first place.

What do you say when the talk turns to those who are childfree and why?

I tend to ignore it. I came to the conclusion a long time ago that some people have a World view that you're just never going to shake. Question it before them and they'll just look at you blankly or get angry for reasons they can't really articulate but they know to be 'self evident'. Because.

You might as well be telling a tenth century monk that the Sun doesn't go around the Earth.

eviltwin

lazygal wrote: »

And I've never come across it. Maybe the circles you mix in are all about the kids. Me and my friends/family have more to talk about than other people's procreation or lack thereof.

What do you say when the talk turns to those who are childfree and why?

Never seen it either, certainly not about people who are childless by choice.

gcgirl

eviltwin wrote: »

I saw a post on a parenting board a few months back from a woman who wanted to have herself sterilized. She was told she would be forward for it by her GP - she already has kids - but was told her husband would have to cosign her consent form. Is there a similar requirement for men who chose to have the snip?

I know a woman who badly needed a hysterectomy already had a few kids and the doctor said her husband would have to sign the form too, she kicked up over the request and had the hysterectomy.

pwurple

The Corinthian wrote: »

(certain wives of friends who increasingly dislike that their husbands still have unmarried friends).

Heh. That reminded me of a former pal. (this guy was so desperate to get married he found a dating site specifically for people who all just wanted to be married. Met a girl and got hitched 4 months later, in his 40's)... Nearly to the minute he got married, he decided all his unmarried friends were no longer good enough.

Aren't the statistics something like only 51% of people ever get married in the first place... Down from 70% in the 70's. And that's not even including the divorced, separated, widowed people as 'not married.'

You'd have a very small circle altogether if you cut out all unmarried people. Sure you wouldn't know a single gay person for a start.

loveisdivine

I think its still a bit taboo. I mentioned to my SIL that I/we didn't want kids and she honestly could not believe me.

"What not ever?!" with a stupid quizical look on her face. I had to repeat myself 2 or 3 times before she finally stopped looking so bemused. Then she was obviously so confused by the idea she just dropped the subject all together.

MIL thinks we will change our minds. Boy has she got a surprise waiting for her! Or not if you look at it another way