Suggestions for DCM '14

foralongtime

First off a massive thanks to everyone involved this year, it was brilliant. I really enjoyed it.

I've organised (much much smaller) running events in the past and have always found it a great help to get feedback while it's still fresh in everyone's mind. I thought we could pool together any general comments or (constructive) criticism. Don't think it needs to be said but please don't talk about individual people/gripes.

Suggestions:

- Kilometers markers on the course.
I know it's traditional to train/run in miles but some (inc. myself) use km. I've grown up with km on signs, speedometers and speed limits so I only roughly know miles. I've no Garmin at the moment and didn't know km signs wouldn't be there so I was a bit lost without markers, especially towards the end when my brain stopped working. I'm not saying to switch over, just to accommodate both.

- Plastic waste generated at the water stations.
Getting the stations right is difficult, you obviously want to get everyone through as quick as possible without congestion/collision. That being said, I couldn't get over how wasteful it was to just supply plastic bottles.

The DCM website says they prepared 183,000 bottles of drink (140,000 water and 43,000 Lucozade). If you take out the ones included in the goodie bags (29,000) and lets say they used 3/4 on the day that's 115,000. I'd guess about 70% of people I saw grabbed a bottle, took a few swigs and then threw it right back to the side. That's at least 80,000 bits of plastic rubbish getting thrown out straight away, half full.

Why not use paper cups for (most of) the water. I'm not saying get rid of the bottles completely, I myself prefer to run with a bottle and sip for the whole course. But for the people who just want a quick chug/douse, a cup is fine. Maybe there could be one side bottles and one side cups. In foreign marathons I've run previously there have only been cups and it's worked fine. They just have much longer tables to spread out the crowd. They also had about 5 big cardboard box bins spread out for the following 500m. If you give people a bin, they'll aim for it. It saves so much time for the volunteers. Obviously it's not a massive thing but it's somewhere where a small decision could really help the environment/save money/stop people lobbing them into rivers/gardens :mad:

- Maybe more toilets at the Orange start area. Wasn't in that wave myself but I went up for a gawk and saw huge queues.

- Having 10 minute pacers (over last year's 15m) was an excellent idea.

- Having an empty mens/womens marquee tent somewhere to quickly change after would be really handy. Maybe if you moved the physio to the East side of the square and then put it there. People could pick up bags and keep moving in the same direction.

----

Again, it was a fantastic day and stellar work by all the organisers/pacers/volunteers so a really big thank you. Already looking forward to next year.

RayCun

nothing wrong with constructive criticism, I'll just mention that
- there are 5km markers (I know, every k would be better)
- most people don't like drinking from cups, they much prefer bottles

foralongtime

RayCun wrote: »

nothing wrong with constructive criticism, I'll just mention that
- most people don't like drinking from cups, they much prefer bottles

Yeah, fair enough. Like I said, I do too. I know cups are a bit of a pain and not something for sticky spots drinks. It's just there was a sea of nearly full chucked bottles after each water station from people looking for a quick chug.

nerraw1111

Paper cups are an awful idea. It's what I like about DCM, they don't skimp on the small extras.

You're just replacing plastic waste with paper waste. It's debatable if you would save any water using paper cups, given how difficult it is to drink from them.

drquirky

I kinda see what he's getting at here w/ the plastic bottles vs. paper cups thing....It is astonishingly wasteful to see all that plastic being chucked about. I recently ran Budapest on a warm 20plus day- they use paper cups and it kinda worried me a bit. TBH it was completely fine. You could actually make a case that getting rid of plastic bottles might cut down on the hyponatremia cases as people wouldn't be chugging as much fluid.

Peckham

+1 on the paper cups. Aside from the waste issue, there must be some injuries from people losing their footing on discarded plastic bottles.

Paper cups are really easy to drink from (unlike plastic cups which take a particular knack of pinching them into a funnel, but most runners should be well practised at this), and pose no risk to others on the ground.

It also limits the waste to the immediate area around the water station as people are unlikely to carry them for a distance in the same way they would a bottle.

But I guess if you have a sponsor who gives free/cheap bottles of water, it's much easier to manage than having volunteers pour water into cups!

RacoonQueen

Bottles are also much easier to grab at a water station than a cup is.

Irish people run in miles, for the most part. Can't see mile markers being replaced with KM markers here.

foralongtime

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Irish people run in miles, for the most part. Can't see mile markers being replaced with KM markers here.

foralongtime wrote: »

I'm not saying to switch over, just to accommodate both.

Don't think anyone wants that, it's not what I suggested.

28064212

Speaking as someone who thinks in kms first and foremost, I think miles+5k markers are fine.

The one thing I would like to see is distance markers down the final stretch (1mile, 1km, 800m, 500m, 200m). They did this in 2011 for both the race series and DCM (I think), and I find it great incentive to kick to the finish. When the last marker is 1.22 miles from the end, it's not the same

RayCun

There's a 26 mile marker too, but I do like the 800m to go, 600m to go... signs

Micilin Muc

Peckham wrote: »

+1 on the paper cups. Aside from the waste issue, there must be some injuries from people losing their footing on discarded plastic bottles.

I went over on my ankle on a water bottle on Monday, limped for a while making my calf seize up - had to walk about 2km of the last 5km.

That said, plastic bottles are fine, just throw them to the side, not in the middle of the race line!

mr.wiggle

Was there foil blankets at the end ? From a personal point, I couldnt walk once across the line and ended up with teeth chattering , huddled up in a ball once past the t-shirt pen. Coulda really done with a foil blanket...nearly jumped on board when another runner went by in a wheelchair! ;-)

robinph

The paper cup with a sponge in the top that they did in Rotterdam was a good compromise on the environmentally friendly side of things, and reducing the number of things to trip over. Far, far easier to drink from a bottle, but I'd be happy to give them up for a less dangerous waterstation and less waste.
Something that pretty much all races get wrong is their positioning of the bins after the waterstations, not sure where they were for DCM, but you'll often have them all within a 100m or so of the end of the station and frankly by that point I've only just managed to find myself a nice bit of clear road to run in again after trying to dodge people making sudden course changes. If they want to reduce the rubbish on the road then the bins need to be positioned much further away from the water stations as I'll happily carry a bottle for a minute or so as I sort myself out, maybe fumble with a gel, poor a bit over my head, pass it to the guy next to you who missed a bottle etc, by then the only option is to drop it on the road or carry it for three more miles.

Van.Bosch

I would like to see the route changed, maybe a bit more on the northside next year, not that i think there is anything wrong with the way it is. I had read that it will have to change for 2014 anyway due to luas works on Westmoreland, D'Olier & O'Connell Street so perhaps that will spark an amendment.

JJJJNR

I hate the bottles, go and run Amsterdam and see how well their marathon is organised, they have over 4 races on the same day.. super run..

blockic

JJJJNR wrote: »

I hate the bottles

Why may I ask?

Brian Purcell

Overall DCM is excellently organised. Personally I like the small water bottles as I like to carry them for a mile or so and sip from it which is a lot more difficult with a cup. Also it can be enough chaos getting a bottle, it's a lot more chaotic with paper cups sloshing over everybody (and in an October race nobody wants their feet soaked). I suspect it's easier to drop packs of water bottles instead of messing around filling cups on the morning.

I'd agree with other posters that there could be a few more toilets at the start although it's inevitable there'll be queues at the start. I felt that the orange wave people having to walk back against the flow of people after the bag drop to get to the start was badly organised. Ideally there would have been a barriered off exit lane on the side opposite the bag drop so organge wavers would have a dedicated exit from the bag drop area.

A tiny thing but walking past the Department of Tourism & Sport that there was no banner wishing people good luck, I thought it'd be a nice touch as the DCM is such a big sporting and tourism event.

Having said that it was a great day overall.

JJJJNR

blockic wrote: »

Why may I ask?

They are a waste not everyone wants a full bottle, at the two Dublin marathons I've done on both occasions the water ran out on a number of stations I past and I had to buy decent isotonic drinks in the shops! and I've spoken to lots of people who had to do the same..I'm being serious about Amsterdam, it was a wake up call for me, they have stations with cups of water, or nice palatable light isotonic drinks or bananas every 5k.. makes a huge difference.

Chivito550

Give them cups, people want bottles. Give them bottles, people want cups. Can't win!

ThePiedPiper

The only marathons I did were bottles were handed out were in Ireland. Whatever about the cost, it's a wild wastage issue. The cleanup would be much more difficult too. If cups are good enough for the majority of marathons, including all the majors if my iffy memory serves me right, then why are we giving out bottles?

RacoonQueen

RunForestRun wrote: »

The only marathons I did were bottles were handed out were in Ireland. Whatever about the cost, it's a wild wastage issue. The cleanup would be much more difficult too. If cups are good enough for the majority of marathons, including all the majors if my iffy memory serves me right, then why are we giving out bottles?

London gives bottles. Every mile.

ThePiedPiper

As I said, very questionable memory when I am racing. My stomach was messed up in London, I wasn't able to drink, so wasn't sure on that one... All the rest I am sure of, bottles all the way, as are Paris, Amsterdam, and plenty others..

TFBubendorfer

Every time a race in Ireland gives out cups rather than bottles there is a massive number of complaints here on boards.

Have to say I prefer bottles myself, I tend to carry them along to the next water station and gradually take sips - much preferable to the desperate gulps you take from a cup.

My suggestion for improvement for next year would be to hand out drinks on both sides of the road. They did that at some stations but not all and it caused runners to veer right across the entire road in front of everyone else. Definitely a potential security hazard.

foralongtime

If the route is being altered due to the Luas works, where would you like to see added in/taken out?

I saw a pic from the 90's and they were running east along the north quays. Looked quite nice.

PVincent

As a volunteer in Nassau st , I think that the finishing area as the route currently stands is pretty good , but we were only patrolling from the Molly Malone to the mont Clare area. There was serious concerns raised amongst our club members stewarding that the front of trinity and even further back was manic to the point of dangerous for runners because of encroachment from the supporters. I know that there is serious expense with barriers but unless they do something there will be a runners hurt from a fall in that area if we allow that to persist. Also cross over zones in the last mile is simply not on. You should not have anything disturbing the runners in the last mile of a marathon especially when a lot of them are not totally in complete control. Maybe the new start and finish next year will take this on board. I know that the gardai , rightly or wrongly , have a huge say in a lot of what goes on, as does the councils. For instance it cost €2k to take up those traffic poles in st Stephens green just for the day. Who is ripping off who ? You would imagine that the whole city if they came together should embrace every aspect of the event , not add to the cost and make things difficult for the marathon organisers.

menoscemo

PVincent wrote: »

As a volunteer in Nassau st , I think that the finishing area as the route currently stands is pretty good , but we were only patrolling from the Molly Malone to the mont Clare area. There was serious concerns raised amongst our club members stewarding that the front of trinity and even further back was manic to the point of dangerous for runners because of encroachment from the supporters. I know that there is serious expense with barriers but unless they do something there will be a runners hurt from a fall in that area if we allow that to persist.

Definitely agree with this. As a 3:40 pacer (I imagine not one of the busier groups) I had to actually push the crowds back in places as there was little room for the oncoming wave of runners. It was really tight for the last two miles; we were actually tight enough for time at this point so could afford to slow down; but with the tightness of the crowd to the runners combined with people in front slowing down; it made it hard to keep a steady pace. Lots of weaving had to be done...

Filibuster

Re bottles:

There just needs to be more bins. If people knew there will be bins after the water stop they won't fling them all over the place. Signpost them - water stop 100m, bottle drop 500m etc..BTW I'd say its much easier picking up bottles then mashed up paper cups.

eliwallach

Filibuster wrote: »

Re bottles:

There just needs to be more bins. If people knew there will be bins after the water stop they won't fling them all over the place..

Sorry, but that just ain't true. I've witnessed fellow marathoners skillfully dodge a well-placed bin to land a bottle in a stream or ditch. mind- bobbling stuff.

Oryx

I agree that the crowd were in your way at that section about two miles from the finish. They didn't realise how hard that is when you're running, and I had a lady push a pushchair out in front of me at that point, she didn't see me because of the crowd out in the road. Gave both of us s fair fright.

More bins would be nice, even smaller ones, dotted along the route, at times I was giving spectators my bottle and asking them to find a bin please!

woody1

i carried the bottles for miles to find a bin.. at one stage i threw it in someones wheely bin that was out on the road, the big bins that were in place for the bottles were too close to the water stops .this happens at almost all races , .. but i still much prefer bottles to cups..
id go for km markers as well as miles, particularly in the last 6 miles where your mind just wants some kind of a marker to say thats another bit done, the mile markers are very far apart ( obviously ) at this stage..

plodder

eliwallach wrote: »

Sorry, but that just ain't true. I've witnessed fellow marathoners skillfully dodge a well-placed bin to land a bottle in a stream or ditch. mind- bobbling stuff.

There'll always be the exception, but most people are reasonable and don't believe in littering. Whatever about bottles, which are easy to pick up afterwards, gel wrappers certainly aren't. I think if people knew there would be half a dozen ordinary bins a few hundred metres after the station, they'd use them.

robinph

plodder wrote: »

There'll always be the exception, but most people are reasonable and don't believe in littering. Whatever about bottles, which are easy to pick up afterwards, gel wrappers certainly aren't. I think if people knew there would be half a dozen ordinary bins a few hundred metres after the station, they'd use them.

If I have enough notice of a drink station approaching and the timing for my gel taking is close enough to schedule then I'd be trying to down the gel in time before the water station, then can wash it down with the water, rinse the goo off my hands and then stuff the gel wrapper in the empty cup. The bins do need to be more than a couple of hundred meters after the water is handed out though if they want more people to use them.

Oryx

Put the bins further out from the water stop, but also, (not being funny here) signpost them too. Bins ahead. Because usually, in race mode you run past the bloody bin and go 'oh there it was, damn....'