Ivy in a wood - removal?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Have a small wood in the garden that covers about a quarter of an acre. I started it about thirty tears ago and it is mostly Oak, Pine, Birch, with some Chestnut and Sycamore. I have always let it do it's own thing - fallen trees left in place, nettles growing etc. It has a good range of flowers now including bluebells, primrose, wood anemones etc. The issue is that it is almost entirely carpeted now with ivy. Just wondering if anybody with a similar planting has any suggestions on how to control it. I never use chemicals in the garden so spraying is not an option. Now that I have retired I have time to give it more attention and I have no bother getting down on my hands and knees and pulling it by hand if need be. Any suggestions?

Desmo

Santos Greasy Caviar wrote: »

Have a small wood in the garden that covers about a quarter of an acre. I started it about thirty tears ago and it is mostly Oak, Pine, Birch, with some Chestnut and Sycamore. I have always let it do it's own thing - fallen trees left in place, nettles growing etc. It has a good range of flowers now including bluebells, primrose, wood anemones etc. The issue is that it is almost entirely carpeted now with ivy. Just wondering if anybody with a similar planting has any suggestions on how to control it. I never use chemicals in the garden so spraying is not an option. Now that I have retired I have time to give it more attention and I have no bother getting down on my hands and knees and pulling it by hand if need be. Any suggestions?

If you do remove any bits, it will grow back as it obviously likes where it is. My guess would be to leave it. You mean the ground is covered in it? I can see how that is not optimal for herbaceous plants (like the primroses etc.).

CJhaughey

I have found a rake to be pretty effective in removing the majority of ground ivy, the steel type with a 400mm head not the big plastic ones are best.
I am in two minds regarding ivy on trees, I know it provides a food source for birds but can also strangle and break trees that are otherwise healthy due to weight and wind loads.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Yes, the area is carpeted with it. The trees in fields and hedgerows nearby are all very covered in Ivy. It not only distorts the trees but, as said, breaks them in heavy wind. I fully recognise the value of Ivy particularly as a berry source in deep winter but there is more than sufficient in the immediate area. I might try a heavy rake or hand pulling, as I don't mind re-doing it every year if I have to. I just don't want it to smother the burgeoning herbaceous understory as many of the plants there are now very rare in this area.

thebishop

A goat would live there.They love ivy.

magicbastarder

not too good for the ground flora you want instead of the ivy though...

i've started cutting down a leylandii hedge, to be replaced with native trees; probably a 20' x 40' section. there's already ivy growing under the leylandii, so i foresee lots of ivy pulling in my future.

baaba maal

If I was in your situation, I would try to manage the ivy on an ongoing basis. Your goal (I presume) is to increase the biodiversity of the habitat...and to do it in your lifetime! We can't control the subsequent history of the habitats we create so I think we should get to see the benefit of them in a relatively short timeframe (the bluebells etc after thirty years in your case) rather than waiting for an indeterminate time in the future when the ivy "stabilises" and you see a more diverse assemblage of plants appear due to natural selection.
That's my thought on it anyway- and well done on having 30 year-old foresight:)!

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Nobody plants a wood without foresight. If I left the ivy to stabilise then the trees in the meantime will suffer badly. You should see the damagedamage, to what mature trees are left in this region, due to ivy. Even the telegraph poles are smothered in it. There is leaving nature to balance and there is helping the more vulnerable elements to compete. When it comes to trees and the herbaceous layer I think they need a helping hand to establish over the ivy any day. Ivy has an unnatural advantage due to it's current dominance here while the trees are a small area fighting to re-establish. I am a strong advocate for biodiversity but we must also help the weaker elements gain back long lost ground. If left, the ivy will prevent a proper canopy forming. A proper canopy will prevent most of the ivy vigour. Had these relatively young trees seeded in a natural wood, the older mature trees would do the job of controlling ivy that I must now do.

30 years for a wood is nothing. I hope to get close to another 20 years with it. By then it should be self sustaining.

magicbastarder

chris packham came out in defence of ivy in autumnwatch last night. he did mention trees toppling in heavy winds as a result though.

Desmo

Ivy was here a few thousand years before any humans (you can see small quantities in pollen records) and the trees got on fine. When the effects of ivy damage have been studied, there is as much clear evidence that it protects trees as that it damages them. I know all the usual angles about trees being blown down but there is little direct evidence that this actually happens to healthy trees.

Alun

Chris was also saying that the pollen is an important source of food for overwintering butterflies like red admirals, and also the berries for birds. On the question of whether it 'damaged' trees, I think we had another thread on that here once. Not sure what the conclusion was.

Desmo

Alun wrote: »

Chris was also saying that the pollen is an important source of food for overwintering butterflies like red admirals, and also the berries for birds. On the question of whether it 'damaged' trees, I think we had another thread on that here once. Not sure what the conclusion was.

If everyone in he country spent 1 hour a week removing Ivy, it would hardly even make a dent on the national population and would remove a lot of bird habitat and food. It might damage the trees as much as save any. Trees got on fine here for the past 9,000 years, without anyone removing Ivy.

On a very local level, it can get a bit out of hand in gardens and it does spread like crazy and in Srameen's case, he would like more primroses and bluebells so that is fair enough.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

In fairness while ivy was here before humans, it does not pre-date trees or shrubs that helped crowd and shade it out. In a new woodland the young trees do not have the natural nursery affect the surrounding mature wood would provide. I am very conscious of the part ivy plays in sheltering and feeding not only birds but mammals and insects too. It's a matter of balance.
It is a fact that ivy distorts and stunts young trees - and I consider trees less than 30 years old to be young - and it definitely takes branches from heathy trees in high winds - I have seen plenty of evidence of that in my career.
At this stage I tghink we need healthy trees and a decent ground flora of the likes of wood anenome than we do more ivy - certainly in the location.

recedite

I have some experience of this. Its very easy to cut ivy on a tree by going around the base as close to the ground as possible with a secateurs. You can work the hook bit of the jaws in under the stem and lever it out for cutting. For thick stems use a small saw, and do two cuts close together, so that a chunk is removed, otherwise it can heal across the width of a single saw cut. If you cut ivy now at the base, it won't start to wilt until some time next summer. You only have to do it every few years, so the ivy never gets up more than a metre or two high.

Ivy on the ground is next to impossible to control manually, even roundup has limited effect. When the canopy closes there will be too little light for very rampant ivy, but there will always be some, which is no harm. The likes of bluebells will still get enough light in the spring, before the decidous trees come into leaf.

On the question of why do it; I just don't like the look of ivy smothering trees. I like to see the tree trunks and the bark. I make no apologies for that.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Yes that sums it up. I can cope with some ground cover of ivy but not the carpet that it is now in the young wood. I'll keep pulling it up until the shading canopy does the job for me.

I have to admit I hate the sight of Ivy on trees when you get to the point that all you can see in summer is ivy and no tree leaves. The smothering of leaves cannot be good for a mature tree let alone a young one.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Just to update this a year on. This time last year I spent a couple of weeks pulling all the ivy by hand - what a mountain of it!

Since then the wood has flourished. The wood anemones, primrose, etc have spread incredibly already. Angelica, foxglove, lords and ladies, orchids, and stitchwort, to name only a few, have all made an appearance this year for the first time. Little or no ivy has regrown, so it doesn't need to be done again this year.
It just shows how a little husbandry can give nature that helping hand that makes a huge difference.

magicbastarder

how many of those plants would have been present already, and how many did you introduce?
as mentioned above, i cleared a leylandii hedge earlier in the year, and have planted it up with native trees. it's only about 20 foot by 40 foot in a suburban garden, so i will not be able to let the trees grow large, but i've seeded the ground with foxglove, bluebells, and a few others, and planted primrose and some bluebell bulbs. there's a purple violet naturalised in the garden which will hopefully recolonise where the leylandii had shaded it out.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

magicbastarder wrote: »

how many of those plants would have been present already, and how many did you introduce?
as mentioned above, i cleared a leylandii hedge earlier in the year, and have planted it up with native trees. it's only about 20 foot by 40 foot in a suburban garden, so i will not be able to let the trees grow large, but i've seeded the ground with foxglove, bluebells, and a few others, and planted primrose and some bluebell bulbs. there's a purple violet naturalised in the garden which will hopefully recolonise where the leylandii had shaded it out.

I have never introduced any plants, apart from the trees and about a dozen bluebell bulbs 30 years back, to this wood. All found their way there naturally.

magicbastarder

what part of the country is it?
we're surrounded by decent sized suburban gardens in north glasnevin/south ballymun (depending on who you ask), and the houses are 60 years old, so there's probably going to be lots of overspill from other gardens.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

magicbastarder wrote: »

what part of the country is it?
we're surrounded by decent sized suburban gardens in north glasnevin/south ballymun (depending on who you ask), and the houses are 60 years old, so there's probably going to be lots of overspill from other gardens.

In the north east. Very rural. A very large garden surrounded by woods, bog, fields.... God's own country.

I would be concerned that the overspill you get will be garden cultivars gone feral rather than wild flowers. Keep an eye on what blows in or is carried by birds, as you don't want garden escapees if the idea is for a natural wood.

magicbastarder

exactly; we have john's wort seeding itself in the garden (albeit almost certainly from a specimen in our garden which will be coming out to make way for a pond), and sarcococca, and a few others.
we've got a lot of tomato plants growing where the leylandii were; it was the previous owner's compost heap.

Capercaille

post up some photo's:)

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Capercaille wrote: »

post up some photo's:)

That would involve, I'm afraid, a level of technical competence beyond my advanced years. I'm still in the era of 35mm film!

magicbastarder

these are a couple from mine - just got going this year, so not a lot to show.

leylandii in the process of coming down - was about 12-15 foot high, and took up the full 40 foot width of the garden, for the last 12 foot of the garden.


a rowan that has been planted. you can see the leylandii stumps in the background; i left them there and drilled them full of holes, will see if they fill up with humus and hopefully something might seed in them.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Now's a good time to collect nuts and seeds to start your own trees. My oaks, chestnut, Rowan, beech, hazel, and sycamore are all grown from seed collected locally.

Capercaille

Santos Greasy Caviar wrote: »

Now's a good time to collect nuts and seeds to start your own trees. My oaks, chestnut, Rowan, beech, hazel, and sycamore are all grown from seed collected locally.

Coillte used to sell native Irish sapling like whitethorn, blackthorn, hazel, spindle, gulder rose, holly, ash, oak. No more though they weren't making enough profit at it.:mad:

magicbastarder

there are a few other suppliers who would supply most of those; none so hardy and kestrel are two who spring to mind.

Zoo4m8

Indeed, and up the road from None So Hardy is Van Der Wel's in Aughrim, Wicklow gardeners and farmers are spoilt for choice when it comes selecting native hedgerow plants and trees..