Pure Breed v commercial

feartuath

Is there anyone here with pure breed sucklers,I calved 28 cows this year and work full time ,weanlings are held on to till the following year.Every spare moment is spent farming which I don't mind.
I suppose. my question is would I be better off with half the number of animals and keep pure breed stock.

mikeoh

I guess if u could guarantee the pb offspring would be worth twice the cross bred you would be fine ....but pb cows can breed bad calves too and some commercial weanlings better than any pb and making as much money .....so it's a hard call!!

simx

Bad points i see about done pb cows weve had here over the years

can have bad quality calves
not great for milk
registering calves and paying royalties
not as hardy
Have to.keep bulls/heifers seperate
had a few pb lims and were mad even had a few chs with this complaint

Im sure theres a few more i cant think of right.now

bogman_bass

the PB are softer animals too IMO. More prone to picking up scours and pnumonia

moy83

I would stick with commercials .
There are heaps of pb cattle around at the minute and I dont think they are all leaving big bucks after them . Now if you really loved a particular breed and wanted to have the best of them that can be bred then its a no brainer ,you should go for it .
I think to be breeding the best pb's now is tricky with all the competion out there , you would want to be showing your cattle all summer long and picking out the best of the best to breed with from all over the world , then you need luck to sell at a decent premium to cover their costs .
From what Ive seen in the last year or two its the commercial cattle that are shown that are more impressive than the pb's

The Nutty M

We have nearly all purebred here and there are,as some say,pro's and con's to both.

The setup we have is geared more towards producing high grade beef for the factory as opposed to standard mart selling.Any that are sold live are sold via pedigree sales although sometimes the price is not double what a commercial animal of the same weight would fetch.
Costs are reasonably high for breeding,between flushing and ET's along with some sections,everything add's up.Sourcing semen from different countries is a bit of a pain and sometimes costly too but well worth it.
We've had no problem with disease's (touch wood) or don't find purebreds any less immune to stuff.
The biggest thing against them is the time taken to mind them I find.Where a commercial cow might be left to calf herself,a pedigree is a whole different kettle of fish.Too much is at stake and invested to have a dead calf and worse still a dead mother.

Muckit

simx wrote: »

Bad points i see about done pb cows weve had here over the years

can have bad quality calves
not great for milk
registering calves and paying royalties
not as hardy
Have to.keep bulls/heifers seperate
had a few pb lims and were mad even had a few chs with this complaint

Im sure theres a few more i cant think of right.now

+1. I'd also add silent heats and harder to get in calf to the equation. PB breeding seems all rosey from the outside. Add to this you have to show your best at sales as your not going to get the same price out of your own yard. Which means ringing bulls and halter training and all the trials and tribulations that brings!

To answer the OP's question, if you want to cut down on your work and the associated headaches, you are not going to do it with switching over to PB!

leg wax

i would look at this a different way,going full bang into ped is a hard way with a lot of its own problems as shown above,but lets just say you are interested in sims just keep breeding your commercial cows back to sims and dont do what every one else does try a bit of this a bit of that,keep all heifers for replacements and keep culling hard for any of the above problems that the lads have mentioned.forget about paper work just keep improving the breed that you decide to go at,you will have a ped herd but not reg and have a good consistant animal to sell which is going to be ahead of 90% of weanlings going for sale now .

Muckit

leg wax wrote: »

i would look at this a different way,going full bang into ped is a hard way with a lot of its own problems as shown above,but lets just say you are interested in sims just keep breeding your commercial cows back to sims and dont do what every one else does try a bit of this a bit of that,keep all heifers for replacements and keep culling hard for any of the above problems that the lads have mentioned.forget about paper work just keep improving the breed that you decide to go at,you will have a ped herd but not reg and have a good consistant animal to sell which is going to be ahead of 90% of weanlings going for sale now .

Well that's a different option running pb as commercial. And possibly as much if not more out of it. Bizzum is at this l think. But is it going to allow him to reduce numbers? Not significantly l would think. And pbs can be tanks of cows. Nice to look at. Hard to feed.

Sharpshooter82

Muckit wrote: »

Well that's a different option running pb as commercial. And possibly as much if not more out of it. Bizzum is at this l think. But is it going to allow him to reduce numbers? Not significantly l would think. And pbs can be tanks of cows. Nice to look at. Hard to feed.

neighbour has PB CH and the cows are as big as any full grown bull

Bizzum

Muckit wrote: »

Well that's a different option running pb as commercial. And possibly as much if not more out of it. Bizzum is at this l think. But is it going to allow him to reduce numbers? Not significantly l would think. And pbs can be tanks of cows. Nice to look at. Hard to feed.

To some extent that's what we do. I haven't registered a calf in a good while now, but may again when the notion takes me. We would have mainly good cows, both PB and Comm, and some very well bred cows off the PB foundation. We wouldn't treat the PB Ch cows any differently than any other cow. I savagely culled the PB cows maybe 8 years ago right back, leaving only a couple that breed well, go in calf, calf well and are capable of rearing their calf well (milk), nothing pisses me off more than a fine big cow that can't feed her own calf!
Anyway the upshot is as time goes by we are keeping these bred up heifers.
A PB cow would want to be at least as good as a decent Comm cow or she's a waste of space. There is in my opinion too many average PB cows about, nothing saving them only the fact that they're PB. So cull hard and breed a cow that suits your needs.

simx

Sharpshooter82 wrote: »

neighbour has PB CH and the cows are as big as any full grown bull

have one big baby of a pb ch cow going to factory any day now weighed her the other day she was 875kg, if you had heavy land (which i do) a few of these ladies would show ya what poaching is fairly quick if it got anyway damp

Sharpshooter82

simx wrote: »

have one big baby of a pb ch cow going to factory any day now weighed her the other day she was 875kg, if you had heavy land (which i do) a few of these ladies would show ya what poaching is fairly quick if it got anyway damp

stacking silage for the neighbour and thought they were his campion bulls from a distance but shocked to see ladies as i got closer

whelan1

Have herd of pure bred Angus cows have 15 cows now had 20 last year. Not a lot of work with them tbh , run them in about once a month to dose or scan or what ever. Most work at calving. No problems with pneumonia very hardy calves up and sucking very quickly. That said I dont like sucklers

simx

whelan1 wrote: »

Have herd of pure bred Angus cows have 15 cows now had 20 last year. Not a lot of work with them tbh , run them in about once a month to dose or scan or what ever. Most work at calving. No problems with pneumonia very hardy calves up and sucking very quickly. That said I dont like sucklers

are they tempermental when calving whelan? had a few xbred aa cows and were very narky when you handled them

whelan1

simx wrote: »

are they tempermental when calving whelan? had a few xbred aa cows and were very narky when you handled them

Yup , got rid of a few mentalers this year. Cows are massive if I work out how to post pictures on new phone I will post some

Richk2012

whelan1 wrote: »

Yup , got rid of a few mentalers this year. Cows are massive if I work out how to post pictures on new phone I will post some

Do you find a good market for Angus bulls , and is it only Dairy farms or is there many suckler farmers that buy them off you ???

Livestockmad

Does anybody have experience with pb or xbred blondes as cows.. I hear they are fast growers!

whelan1

Richk2012 wrote: »

Do you find a good market for Angus bulls , and is it only Dairy farms or is there many suckler farmers that buy them off you ???

Yup repeat customers both sucklers and dairy

Livestockmad

Does anybody have experience with pb or xbred blondes as b

Bizzum

Livestockmad wrote: »

Does anybody have experience with pb or xbred blondes as cows.. I hear they are fast growers!

We would have some nice BlondeX cows. The right one can be a super cow. They seem to cross very well with the Ch bull.

They seem to bring a bit of style to the mix.

just do it

I know 1 or 2 lads that have both PB registered and non-registered LM cows to produce BB weanlings for the export market.

Advice from legwax and bizzum makes sense. Ultimately breeding your own and ruthless culling, whilst slow, produces the goods. Need a strategy and stick to it.

feartuath

Thanks for replies.I am only trying to improve stock quality and I know work load will never reduce.
Maybe it's worth trying 1 or 2 and breed off them and try to finish calves myself. I certainly don't have time to show or groom them
I am waiting for a sales catalogue for Roscrea LM sale in November.

whelan1

feartuath wrote: »

Thanks for replies.I am only trying to improve stock quality and I know work load will never reduce.
Maybe it's worth trying 1 or 2 and breed off them and try to finish calves myself. I certainly don't have time to show or groom them
I am waiting for a sales catalogue for Roscrea LM sale in November.

we dont show or groom, what you see is what you get, no use feeding the daylights of an animal for them to melt away when a customer buys them

mikeoh

whelan1 wrote: »

we dont show or groom, what you see is what you get, no use feeding the daylights of an animal for them to melt away when a customer buys them

My neighbour breeds a few pb limos alongside his dairy herd bulls get to suck 2 of his best milkers every day for about 2 months before sales!!!

1chippy

Just bback from carnaross. there were 4 nice pb lims went through the cow ring after the cows were finished. they would have went at least a ton more if they were ran through the comercial ring. i had a few pbs here and found they were nothing but hardship. ive a few cows now that would be highly bred. they are always the ones to watch calving. they throw good calves but they lack the hybrid vigour that a lot of the other cows would bring.
pbs are hardship, forget about the calf a year too.

Sharpshooter82

1chippy wrote: »

Just bback from carnaross. there were 4 nice pb lims went through the cow ring after the cows were finished. they would have went at least a ton more if they were ran through the comercial ring. i had a few pbs here and found they were nothing but hardship. ive a few cows now that would be highly bred. they are always the ones to watch calving. they throw good calves but they lack the hybrid vigour that a lot of the other cows would bring.
pbs are hardship, forget about the calf a year too.

Any aa go through chippy

Bizzum

feartuath wrote: »

Thanks for replies.I am only trying to improve stock quality and I know work load will never reduce.
Maybe it's worth trying 1 or 2 and breed off them and try to finish calves myself. I certainly don't have time to show or groom them
I am waiting for a sales catalogue for Roscrea LM sale in November.

Another route to improve herd quality would be sire selection. If you were to select some high index AI bulls and breed yourself up. You'd be surprised the progress you can make in a few years.

1chippy

Sharpshooter82 wrote: »

Any aa go through chippy

No pb aa, but i picked up a good big stretchy aa cow due next
week. They wouldnt be a breed i go for but shes not your typical aa and i seen the calves off her comrades. they were good orangey charlaois calves off aa cows, so there has to be something else in the mix.

simx

1chippy wrote: »

No pb aa, but i picked up a good big stretchy aa cow due next
week. They wouldnt be a breed i go for but shes not your typical aa and i seen the calves off her comrades. they were good orangey charlaois calves off aa cows, so there has to be something else in the mix.

What kind of money chippy?

1chippy

simx wrote: »

What kind of money chippy?

1270 for this one. bought a massive sim last week for 1350, she calved a smashing bull calf within 8 hrs of getting her home.

Sharpshooter82

1chippy wrote: »

1270 for this one. bought a massive sim last week for 1350, she calved a smashing bull calf within 8 hrs of getting her home.

Nice result there

simx

1chippy wrote: »

1270 for this one. bought a massive sim last week for 1350, she calved a smashing bull calf within 8 hrs of getting her home.

If all.goes well she wont be bad, often had a few springers have a calf after buying that day, loading/ unloading and moving around must induce them, was at a suckler sale last week and springing incalf ch/lmx heifers calving in dec were making 1850-2100, i kept the hands in the pockets

onyerbikepat

simx wrote: »

If all.goes well she wont be bad, often had a few springers have a calf after buying that day, loading/ unloading and moving around must induce them, was at a suckler sale last week and springing incalf ch/lmx heifers calving in dec were making 1850-2100, i kept the hands in the pockets

So much for a decline in suckler numbers.

Sharpshooter82

simx wrote: »

If all.goes well she wont be bad, often had a few springers have a calf after buying that day, loading/ unloading and moving around must induce them, was at a suckler sale last week and springing incalf ch/lmx heifers calving in dec were making 1850-2100, i kept the hands in the pockets

dont scratch your nose by mistake :pac:

Mac Taylor

I run a few PB limos with the Commercials, sell the bulls and keep the heifers. Apart from the work associated with ai they get no special treatment. Like Whelan1 we don't show or go to the sales, sell through donedeal or word of mouth. We are only small scale though.

tim04750

feartuath wrote: »

Thanks for replies.I am only trying to improve stock quality and I know work load will never reduce.
Maybe it's worth trying 1 or 2 and breed off them and try to finish calves myself. I certainly don't have time to show or groom them
I am waiting for a sales catalogue for Roscrea LM sale in November.

Catalogue is up online http://www.irishlimousin.com/

badshot

Livestockmad wrote: »

Does anybody have experience with pb or xbred blondes as cows.. I hear they are fast growers!

yeah i keep a few pb blondes
i cross them with a bb bull
do the same thing with pb lims
very happy with the calves
i find it easier to get the pb lims back in calf

Dozer1

like plenty other lads here I don't have big numbers,so much as I'd like to get replacements from my own herd I find its taking too long for me to build the quality of cow I'd like.
I decided to try and add some pedigrees to the herd to see if they'll work for me, nothing fancy but good shaply heifers in my eyes, I bought 2 PB non-reg LM's last year and 3 PB reg aubrac heifers this year, the 2 lims are calving in Jan and the 3 Aubracs are ariving at the weekend and should be going in calf before Christmas.

I don't think I paid too much above commercial prices for them and hopefully from the five I'll get 3 keepers, no point in hoping they'll all be super.

will it work, don't know, will keeping the cows I having and selling the calves for 700-900 work don't think so so just trying something different, if the new cows can breed a top quality calf to sell for 1000 each year then I'll be happy.

just do it

Another idea is to buy cow with calf at foot. You've first hand evidence of the quality of calf she can produce.

johnpawl

Dozer1 wrote: »

like plenty other lads here I don't have big numbers,so much as I'd like to get replacements from my own herd I find its taking too long for me to build the quality of cow I'd like.
I decided to try and add some pedigrees to the herd to see if they'll work for me, nothing fancy but good shaply heifers in my eyes, I bought 2 PB non-reg LM's last year and 3 PB reg aubrac heifers this year, the 2 lims are calving in Jan and the 3 Aubracs are ariving at the weekend and should be going in calf before Christmas.

I don't think I paid too much above commercial prices for them and hopefully from the five I'll get 3 keepers, no point in hoping they'll all be super.

will it work, don't know, will keeping the cows I having and selling the calves for 700-900 work don't think so so just trying something different, if the new cows can breed a top quality calf to sell for 1000 each year then I'll be happy.

What bull will you put on the aubrac? I'd a notion of getting one or two pb aubrac too but it didn't pan out. I've heard they make good cows. On the other hand I've heard of a couple of lads that got an aubrac bull for their commercial cows and weren't too impressed with the calves. Didn't see them myself so could be listening to sh1te

1chippy

simx wrote: »

If all.goes well she wont be bad, often had a few springers have a calf after buying that day, loading/ unloading and moving around must induce them, was at a suckler sale last week and springing incalf ch/lmx heifers calving in dec were making 1850-2100, i kept the hands in the pockets

some of those suckler sales are mental to buy at. I have started to snoop around alot more marts lately and try and hoke out a bargain. anything over 1500 is hard to justify. maybe im wrong but if you can find out about who owns them, why they are for sale and what sort of calves the bull is throwing. with all this on board its just trying to get value. i bought too many high priced maidens and springers and they just didnt perform as well as they had to.

Dozer1

hey johnpawl, I've a reasonably easy calving LM bull here already so going to let him run with them this year. planning on going back to the CH in a years time so that would be the eventual plan for all of them.