David Quinn/Iona supporting Pussy Riot?

SoulandForm

Someone on a thread in another section here said that David Quinn supported Pussy Riot the infamous Russian Punk band but I cant find anything about this on the internet; does anyone know if this is true or not?

Corkfeen

SoulandForm wrote: »

Someone on a thread in another section here said that David Quinn supported Pussy Riot the infamous Russian Punk band but I cant find anything about this on the internet; does anyone know if this is true or not?

To the best of my memory he did in a tweet,I may be wrong.Would probably make more sense to ask him on Twitter.

Benny_Cake

Corkfeen wrote: »

To the best of my memory he did in a tweet,I may be wrong.Would probably make more sense to ask him on Twitter.

He opposed their imprisonment:

https://twitter.com/search?q=pussy%20riot%20from%3Adavquinn&src=typd

Not sure how to embed a tweet but that link should bring you to it. I actually agree with him (first time for everything).

Corkfeen

Benny_Cake wrote: »

He opposed their imprisonment:

https://twitter.com/search?q=pussy%20riot%20from%3Adavquinn&src=typd

Not sure how to embed a tweet but that link should bring you to it. I actually agree with him (first time for everything).

I know, I felt bizarre approving of anything that he's said. Was struggling to find that specific tweet on my phone. Thank you.

brian_t

He doesn't support them but doesn't agree with what happened to them.

On the 20 Aug 2012 he tweeted

I wonder what the reaction would have been if a protest band had seriously disrupted the Beal na Blath ceremony yesterday?

Or how would the luvvies have reacted if a Christian rock band had badly disrupted the inauguration of Michael D?.

https://twitter.com/DavQuinn/status/237463042374377473

SoulandForm

brian_t wrote: »

He doesn't support them but doesn't agree with what happened to them.

Sorry that is supporting; not their blasemphy maybe, but them personally.

If he considers what they did unworthy of jail Im afraid it says something very worrying about his own faith. I have long suspected that he is only using Christianity for a pro-American/Israel/Neo-Con agenda.

Neo-Cons seem to have the wonderful ability to combine the worst of Conservatism and the worst of for want of a better word "progressivism".

Ambersky

Its interesting that people are not all black and white and sometimes find that while they are usually in opposition to particular peoples ideas they can be on the same side on some issues because of particular points of principal.
I like to welcome these occasions.

Morbert

SoulandForm wrote: »

If he considers what they did unworthy of jail Im afraid it says something very worrying about his own faith.

Actually, it says something very reassuring about his faith.

The Church in Russia is under the thumb of an oppressive regime that exploits religious observance to further its own political agenda. It is being abused, just as the Temple in Jerusalem was being abused when Jesus had it destroyed.

SoulandForm

Morbert wrote: »

Actually, it says something very reassuring about his faith.

The Church in Russia is under the thumb of an oppressive regime that exploits religious observance to further its own political agenda. It is being abused, just as the Temple in Jerusalem was being abused when Jesus had it destroyed.

That might have been true during Soviets times but even than it would be wrong to make any blanket statements about them (the horrors of the era of Lenin and Trotsky and than again those of Khrushchev cant be compared to the other times for the Church- and again Old Belief in general had it often a lot easier than the New Rite Church for obvious reasons to do with the often slavish attitude of the Synod towards the Romanov Tsars who unlike the Rurik Tsars were tyrants)- it is certainly not true today. The Church has spoken out against Putin on social justice issues and many of the hierarchy are nearer to the Communist Party who's leader
Gennady Zyuganov is a genuinely pious Church goer (how sincere Putin's faith is is very much open to question). The Russian Orthodox Church is in much healthier shape than it has been in for centuries and certainly it is much less subservient to the elites than the Church of Ireland and the Roman Catholic Church Irish hierarchy.

SoulandForm

Morbert wrote: »

Actually, it says something very reassuring about his faith.

Why is it reassuring the he believes that these people should not be punished for the upset and hurt they deliberately caused, their mockery of Christ and His Mother as well as the element of treason to their motherland in the whole affair which was aimed at making Russia look bad to western audiences in order to back up the vile campaign of Russophobia we have been subjected to since Putin started at least undo some of the damage of the Yeltsin years?

How can anyone with any love of Christ or Christianity not want these people punished for their extremely serious act of desecration, insult to God and to historic Russian civilization?

There is a good argument for them being hanged for treason- they got off lightly.

SoulandForm

Morbert wrote: »

The Church in Russia is under the thumb of an oppressive regime that exploits religious observance to further its own political agenda. It is being abused, just as the Temple in Jerusalem was being abused when Jesus had it destroyed.

The rebel Bishop who is always attacking the Patriarch and the top Bishops in his clique, Bishop Diomid of Chukotka, called for Pussy Riot to be executed. Pussy Riot did not do what they did for the good of the Church at all.

Manach

Well at least they were not charged with piracy.

My own take, this was a case of trespass and there was a level of disruption of peace involved. So some form of punishment was deserved, but I reckon it was an over-reaction on the authorities part.
Russia has had a long and difficult history (ref- Michael Burleigh and Orlando Figgs) and within their intellectual psyche is a fear of times of chaos, which the Yelsein era was but a pale shadow.

MrPudding

SoulandForm wrote: »

Why is it reassuring the he believes that these people should not be punished for the upset and hurt they deliberately caused, their mockery of Christ and His Mother as well as the element of treason to their motherland in the whole affair which was aimed at making Russia look bad to western audiences in order to back up the vile campaign of Russophobia we have been subjected to since Putin started at least undo some of the damage of the Yeltsin years?

How can anyone with any love of Christ or Christianity not want these people punished for their extremely serious act of desecration, insult to God and to historic Russian civilization?

There is a good argument for them being hanged for treason- they got off lightly.

I would have thought that your god, given his supposed power, would be more than capable of dealing with any offense caused to him, should he decide to do so. Your assumption that mere human authorities must protect your god from insult is probably more insulting than anything Pussy Riot said or did.

MrP

SoulandForm

Manach wrote: »

Well at least they were not charged with piracy.

My own take, this was a case of trespass and there was a level of disruption of peace involved. So some form of punishment was deserved, but I reckon it was an over-reaction on the authorities part.
Russia has had a long and difficult history (ref- Michael Burleigh and Orlando Figgs) and within their intellectual psyche is a fear of times of chaos, which the Yelsein era was but a pale shadow.

You mean the "Time of Troubles"?

Orlando Figgs's writings on the subject are those of silly Russophobe. Do you know what Michael Burleigh said about the Irish?

Morbert

SoulandForm wrote: »

Why is it reassuring the he believes that these people should not be punished for the upset and hurt they deliberately caused, their mockery of Christ and His Mother as well as the element of treason to their motherland in the whole affair which was aimed at making Russia look bad to western audiences in order to back up the vile campaign of Russophobia we have been subjected to since Putin started at least undo some of the damage of the Yeltsin years?

How can anyone with any love of Christ or Christianity not want these people punished for their extremely serious act of desecration, insult to God and to historic Russian civilization?

There is a good argument for them being hanged for treason- they got off lightly.

There are no good arguments for any such charge. Protest, civil disobedience, and freedom of speech are essential components of any growing society. The ROC is a perfectly legitimate target, given its relation with the state and political support for Putin.

By conflating Putin's abhorrent governance with the "motherland", you are subscribing to a narrative that is deeply destructive to Russia's future prosperity.

Manach

Yes. And I've found Burleigh, who was recommened as an example as a secondary source in a history course, to be an excellent writer, as an antidote the over the top nationalist mythology has a dogged elements of the 19th/20th centuries accounts of Irish history

SoulandForm

Morbert wrote: »

There are no good arguments for any such charge. Protest, civil disobedience, and freedom of speech are essential components of any growing society. The ROC is a perfectly legitimate target, given its relation with the state and political support for Putin.

By conflating Putin's abhorrent governance with the "motherland", you are subscribing to a narrative that is deeply destructive to Russia's future prosperity.

They broke into a Church during a Service and mocked people's faith. Do you understand the difference between that and their right to protest? Do you understand that Christians consider what they did an act of desecration?

Their attack was primarily on the Russian Orthodox Church and not on Putin- who Im no fan of. Have the Russian Church really given more support to Putin than the weak Irish Churches give to our own elite?

SoulandForm

Manach wrote: »

Yes. And I've found Burleigh, who was recommened as an example as a secondary source in a history course, to be an excellent writer, as an antidote the over the top nationalist mythology has a dogged elements of the 19th/20th centuries accounts of Irish history

I was thinking more of his accusation that the Irish are pre-disposed to homosexuality and child abuse and that the IRA were responsible for guiding German planes in the bombing of Belfast in the 1940s....

Morbert

SoulandForm wrote: »

They broke into a Church during a Service and mocked people's faith. Do you understand the difference between that and their right to protest? Do you understand that Christians consider what they did an act of desecration?

Their attack was primarily on the Russian Orthodox Church and not on Putin- who Im no fan of. Have the Russian Church really given more support to Putin than the weak Irish Churches give to our own elite?

Do you understand that however strongly a congregation might be offended or insulted by "desecration", or however you might feel about the competence and fitness of the current Russian government, dissent is an essential ingredient to the development of any society? They stormed the ROC to protest against its political endorsement of Putin. This should be treated no more or less gravely than if they had stormed Atheist Ireland for supporting Fianna Fail. You can argue that their disruption deserves some punishment, but you can't heap on extra punishment just because you don't like what they are saying.

Morbert

Also, can I make a general statement about notions of blasphemy and desecration?

Correct me if I am wrong, but I would imagine God is somewhat confident in His own actions and integrity, and does not need crusaders defending Him against every ill word spoken. If you support a blasphemy law, then you are tacitly admitting that God is insecure.

SoulandForm

Morbert wrote: »

Also, can I make a general statement about notions of blasphemy and desecration?

Correct me if I am wrong, but I would imagine God is somewhat confident in His own actions and integrity, and does not need crusaders defending Him against every ill word spoken. If you support a blasphemy law, then you are tacitly admitting that God is insecure.

Look I have little doubt that unless David Quinn and Pussy Riot repent that God will deal with them in the hell fire.

However you miss the point- when you love someone strongly than them being mocked just doesnt hurt them, it hurts you. Atheists can have no conception at all what the love that exists in Christian hearts for their God is. Its the hurt that is caused to Christians which I was thinking about.

This is not about blasemphy laws- this is about desecration of a place of worship. I would feel strongly as well if someone did something similar in a Mosque or even a Sikh Temple.

SoulandForm

Morbert wrote: »

Also, can I make a general statement about notions of blasphemy and desecration?

Correct me if I am wrong, but I would imagine God is somewhat confident in His own actions and integrity, and does not need crusaders defending Him against every ill word spoken. If you support a blasphemy law, then you are tacitly admitting that God is insecure.

Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

Galatians 6:7.

God is the Uncreated Creator- we are created beings.

SoulandForm

Morbert wrote: »

Do you understand that however strongly a congregation might be offended or insulted by "desecration", or however you might feel about the competence and fitness of the current Russian government, dissent is an essential ingredient to the development of any society? They stormed the ROC to protest against its political endorsement of Putin. This should be treated no more or less gravely than if they had stormed Atheist Ireland for supporting Fianna Fail. You can argue that their disruption deserves some punishment, but you can't heap on extra punishment just because you don't like what they are saying.

There is plenty of dissent in Russia. There are plenty of newspapers which criticize him all the time. There are plenty of protests.

Where is dissent in Ireland?

Morbert

SoulandForm wrote: »

There is plenty of dissent in Russia. There are plenty of newspapers which criticize him all the time. There are plenty of protests.

Do you believe these people should be hanged for treason?

Where is dissent in Ireland?

I don't know. It is a great shame that there is not more political activism in Ireland.

SoulandForm

Morbert wrote: »

Do you believe these people should be hanged for treason?

I don't know. It is a great shame that there is not more political activism in Ireland.

No I dont but its a valid opinion given there are strong reasons to suspect the hand of George Soros and the CIA.

You could also ask yourself why there is much a limited range of opinion in Irish mainstream media? The ROI has very oppressive laws and the reason they are not used more often is because there is virtually no opposition to the elite. This makes it very amusing when Irish people complain about Russia.

Morbert

SoulandForm wrote: »

when you love someone strongly than them being mocked just doesnt hurt them, it hurts you.

Be not deceived; God is not mocked:

That is my point. If God is not mocked, then followers should not worry. Christianity is, by its nature, counter-cultural. If it starts entwining itself with the state to enforce its ideals, it will inevitably be corrupted by the ambitions of politics.

Don't render unto Caesar the things that are God's.

Also, I have issues with the notion of locking people up for mockery.

Morbert

SoulandForm wrote: »

No I dont but its a valid opinion given there are strong reasons to suspect the hand of George Soros and the CIA.

You could also ask yourself why there is much a limited range of opinion in Irish mainstream media? The ROI has very oppressive laws and the reason they are not used more often is because there is virtually no opposition to the elite. This makes it very amusing when Irish people complain about Russia.

Well, we need context here. The ROI can be "oppressive", but not on any scale approaching Russia.

Sonics2k

SoulandForm wrote: »

Why is it reassuring the he believes that these people should not be punished for the upset and hurt they deliberately caused, their mockery of Christ and His Mother as well as the element of treason to their motherland in the whole affair which was aimed at making Russia look bad to western audiences in order to back up the vile campaign of Russophobia we have been subjected to since Putin started at least undo some of the damage of the Yeltsin years?

How can anyone with any love of Christ or Christianity not want these people punished for their extremely serious act of desecration, insult to God and to historic Russian civilization?

There is a good argument for them being hanged for treason- they got off lightly.

Jesus Christ? Hanged?

You want them Hanged for protesting and disturbance of the peace?

Treason? Where are you getting that from? Causing a rucas in a church is not Treason by any means of the imagination.

You'd want them hanged because they don't agree with Putins political ideologies? And because they may have done something a bit mean in a church?

Bloody hell. What's your punishment for speeding? Beheading?

SoulandForm

Sonics2k wrote: »

You'd want them hanged because they don't agree with Putins political ideologies? And because they may have done something a bit mean in a church?

Bloody hell. What's your punishment for speeding? Beheading?

No- I dont agree with Putin's political ideologies but there is a difference from doing that and acting as a tool for George Soros/CIA in a desacration of a place of worship to help whip up Russophobia.

The speed limits in Ireland are oppressive. Christians believe that they should be kept but they are annoying.

Benny_Cake

SoulandForm wrote: »

Why is it reassuring the he believes that these people should not be punished for the upset and hurt they deliberately caused, their mockery of Christ and His Mother as well as the element of treason to their motherland in the whole affair which was aimed at making Russia look bad to western audiences in order to back up the vile campaign of Russophobia we have been subjected to since Putin started at least undo some of the damage of the Yeltsin years?

SoulandForm wrote: »

No I dont but its a valid opinion given there are strong reasons to suspect the hand of George Soros and the CIA.

SoulandForm wrote: »

No- I dont agree with Putin's political ideologies but there is a difference from doing that and acting as a tool for George Soros/CIA in a desacration of a place of worship to help whip up Russophobia.

Mod note: You've started a thread on the same topic in the Conspiracy Theories forum. I would ask that if you want to discuss anti-Russian conspiracies then that would be a more appropriate venue.

SoulandForm

Morbert wrote: »

That is my point. If God is not mocked, then followers should not worry. Christianity is, by its nature, counter-cultural. If it starts entwining itself with the state to enforce its ideals, it will inevitably be corrupted by the ambitions of politics.

Don't render unto Caesar the things that are God's.

Also, I have issues with the notion of locking people up for mockery.

Christianity by its nature is about saving people from the hell fire; if it is by its nature counter-cultural than that means by nature humans belong in the fires of hell. Morbert you are an atheist from your posts but you seem very confident posting about the nature Christianity, where you raised in a pious family? If you how come you dont understand the Russian view of this? Russia is a secular state that protects various other Religions- Im not calling for an Orthodox state nor is the hierarchy of the Russian Orthodox Church.

brian_t

SoulandForm wrote: »

The speed limits in Ireland are oppressive. Christians believe that they should be kept but they are annoying.

This comment is just plain silly and has nothing to do with Christianity.

I'm pretty sure that Irish people as a whole have no real problem with our speed limits.

SoulandForm

brian_t wrote: »

This is just plain silly and has nothing to do with Christianity.

I'm pretty sure that Irish people as a whole have no real problem with our speed limits.

No it doesnt have anything to do with Christianity outside of the fact that Christians have to obey speed limits however silly they may be- and in my opinion they are very silly in Ireland.

Lots of Irish people do have problems with the speed limits.

Sonics2k

SoulandForm wrote: »

No it doesnt have anything to do with Christianity outside of the fact that Christians have to obey speed limits however silly they may be- and in my opinion they are very silly in Ireland.

Lots of Irish people do have problems with the speed limits.

Kindly point out that part of the Bible that tells Christians not to break the speed limit?

Was it on that other tablet that got broken? The mysterious 11th commandment perhaps?
Seriously. What does the speed limit (which is fine) have to do with religion?

And yes, you did say there was good reason to have them hanged for treason, please do tell us what that is.

brian_t

1. Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.
2. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment..

Romans 13:1-2

Manach

From a course that touched on the concept on Natural law, which had Christian influences, a vast majority of laws are be rooted in the admin - ie laws for the smooth running of the state and the interaction between citizens. These are uncontroversial in a moral sense, ie speeding, and the Christian is basically enjoined to follow these. Causing an affray in a private setting is an offence, and procedurally the dealing of such should be similar Europe wide.

Sonics2k

brian_t wrote: »

Romans 13:1-2

Ah, so then it is the opinion of SoulandForm that all Christians who violate the law should be punished on a level equal to treason.

Gosh, I hope he's paid his property tax, has a dog licence, has a TV licence, and so on.

SoulandForm

Sonics2k wrote: »

Ah, so then it is the opinion of SoulandForm that all Christians who violate the law should be punished on a level equal to treason.

Gosh, I hope he's paid his property tax, has a dog licence, has a TV licence, and so on.

No.

Speeding is not treason- I dont think God is going to send anyone to the hell fire for speeding especially people from Ireland.

Sonics2k

SoulandForm wrote: »

No.

Speeding is not treason- I dont think God is going to send anyone to the hell fire for speeding especially people from Ireland.

But it is. You said Pussy Riot could be found guilty of treason for breaking the law, you then went on Christians need to follow the law or they'd not be following God's Will.

God has but one punishment, and that's Hell.

Speeding = breaking the law = going against God's Law as quoted in Romans (gloriously ironic given what Jesus said and did, Moses too). Going against God's Will without saying confession = off to Hell you go.

SO! A person driving down a quiet road goes over the speed limit by 15kph, person loses control of the car because they've been drinking and hits a tree. Person dies and goes to hell for breaking Gods Law.

Seems reasonable to me.

And also, why not people from Ireland? What makes us so special?

brian_t

Sonics2k wrote: »

Going against God's Will without saying confession = off to Hell you go.

Where in the Bible are you getting this from ?

KeanoIsALegend

The Russian Orthodox Patriarch has been openly aggressive towards the Catholic Church and in particular the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church who he sees as a direct threat.

Patriarch Kiril is in Putin's back pocket...

SoulandForm

KeanoIsALegend wrote: »

The Russian Orthodox Patriarch has been openly aggressive towards the Catholic Church and in particular the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church who he sees as a direct threat.

Patriarch Kiril is in Putin's back pocket...

No he has not; infact he has garnered the disdain of a large portion of his flock for that very reason, even leading to one Bishop to break off Communion with him entirely. Given the violence and dishonesty that went into the creation of Uniates in the Ukraine of course people are going to have problems with the Unia if they are Orthodox- also the way that the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church spews forth Russophobia is a pretty big problem.

Patriarch Kiril is not in Putin's pocket.

KeanoIsALegend

SoulandForm wrote: »

No he has not; infact he has garnered the disdain of a large portion of his flock for that very reason, even leading to one Bishop to break off Communion with him entirely. Given the violence and dishonesty that went into the creation of Uniates in the Ukraine of course people are going to have problems with the Unia if they are Orthodox- also the way that the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church spews forth Russophobia is a pretty big problem.

Patriarch Kiril is not in Putin's pocket.

Are you for real?

The UGCC has had exist under a cloud of secrecy until a few years ago.
Kiril's puppets in the UO Church MP oppressed treated the UGCC with distain.

Thankfully the Uke government and the UO Church KP have ensured equality for UGCC members in Ukraine.

Kiril has a paranoid fear of Catholicism and openly criticises the UGCC expressing their faith and re=establishing themselves and taking their rightful place in Slavic lands...

SoulandForm

KeanoIsALegend wrote: »

Are you for real?

The UGCC has had exist under a cloud of secrecy until a few years ago.
Kiril's puppets in the UO Church MP oppressed treated the UGCC with distain.

Thankfully the Uke government and the UO Church KP have ensured equality for UGCC members in Ukraine.

Kiril has a paranoid fear of Catholicism and openly criticises the UGCC expressing their faith and re=establishing themselves and taking their rightful place in Slavic lands...

Yes I am for real- Patriarch Kiril is the among the biggest supporters of ecumenism within the New Rite Russian Orthodox Church. He is not aggressive towards Roman Catholicism as such- he is though less so than his predecessor concerned about the Uniates. You obviously dont understand why the Orthodox have such disdain for the Uniates and why they are the major obstacle for good relations or even union between the RCC and the ROC.

SoulandForm

KeanoIsALegend wrote: »

Kiril has a paranoid fear of Catholicism and openly criticises the UGCC expressing their faith and re=establishing themselves and taking their rightful place in Slavic lands...

What is their pray tell?

They dont believe in the Immaculate Conception or Papal Infallibility but they remain under the Bishop of Rome and divided from their Orthodox brothers and sisters out nationalist pride and hatred. We are talking about a Church founded by violence, blackmail and deception. That is why the Orthodox have such disdain for it.

KeanoIsALegend

SoulandForm wrote: »

What is their pray tell?

They dont believe in the Immaculate Conception or Papal Infallibility but they remain under the Bishop of Rome and divided from their Orthodox brothers and sisters out nationalist pride and hatred. We are talking about a Church founded by violence, blackmail and deception. That is why the Orthodox have such disdain for it.

The UGCC is a welcome and precious part of the Roman See while maintaining their Orthodox praxis.

your lies and hatred shown towards them says a lot...

SoulandForm

Given the long of history of the Vatican's violence and aggression against the Orthodox they have every reason to have a paranoid fear of Roman Catholicism.

http://www.romanity.org/htm/rom.23.en.the_sainthood_of_common_criminals.01.htm

SoulandForm

KeanoIsALegend wrote: »

The UGCC is a welcome and precious part of the Roman See while maintaining their Orthodox praxis.

your lies and hatred shown towards them says a lot...

Oh come on- Uniates have in the past and still today been treated with utter disdain by their Roman Catholic brothers. You should research the origin of the Orthodox Church in America and why so many Uniates en mass went back to their ancestoral Faith. Thats the problem with the Uniates they are neither one thing or the other.

KeanoIsALegend

SoulandForm wrote: »

Oh come on- Uniates have in the past and still today been treated with utter disdain by their Roman Catholic brothers. You should research the origin of the Orthodox Church in America and why so many Uniates en mass went back to their ancestoral Faith. Thats the problem with the Uniates they are neither one thing or the other.

On the contrary. the UGCC takes a proud place within the Roman See. They are our Catholic brothers and sisters in Christ.

Now whats this about the Immaculate Conception..?

SoulandForm

KeanoIsALegend wrote: »

The UGCC is a welcome and precious part of the Roman See while maintaining their Orthodox praxis.

your lies and hatred shown towards them says a lot...

What about your lies and hatred towards the Patriarch?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/03/18/orthodox-patriarch-pope-francis-investiture/1997319/

http://www.asianews.it/news-en/For-the-first-time-since-the-Great-Schism,-ecumenical-patriarch-to-attend-pope%27s-inaugural-Mass-27408.html

http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=177924

http://www.zenit.org/en/articles/patriarch-kirill-s-message-to-pope-francis

http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&div=10429

SoulandForm

KeanoIsALegend wrote: »

On the contrary. the UGCC takes a proud place within the Roman See. They are our Catholic brothers and sisters in Christ.

Now whats this about the Immaculate Conception..?

Obviously you dont know much about the Uniates if you are asking that question. They dont believe in it- their Priests openly say that it is a confusion of the Latins. It makes no sense within the context of Byzantine theology anyway.