It's not just about the pool! 3km run TT 2013-2014

littlemsfickle

Seeing as the 400m swim thread is so popular, just wondering would there be any interest in doing a monthly run TT? I thought 3km might be a good distance but open to any other suggestions?

duffyshuffle

5km easier to track? people can use park run and 5km races around

krowan008

5k is best!

littlemsfickle

Yeah cool, 5km is fine with me.

Ceepo

Would have to say a 3k tt is best for judging current fitness.
As it is as close as you can get to Vo2. And is easy to calculate training paces from.
It is also easier to recover from a 3k and dosent impinge on other training.

I take the point that some could do the 5k park runs. But that is only if you live near them. 5k road races are very few and far between this time of year as well.

j0hn1

3k for me too, what ceepo said

Chartsengrafs

Agree on the 3k, nice idea.

bryangiggsy

Id go with 5k

sconhome

Yep go with the 3k, a 2mile TT is a staple of testing, here's why http://www.examiner.com/article/speed-workout-two-mile-time-trial

Shell to Run

Yes agree 3km, not near a park run. TT on own would be a better indication of fitness level. Easier to recover from too.

sconhome

So who is good at tables?

Would doing this as a Google spreadsheet make more sense?

littlemsfickle

amphkingwest wrote: »

So who is good at tables?

Would doing this as a Google spreadsheet make more sense?

Yeah....I'm just an ideas man/woman:) not the best with the techy stuff

hypersonic

Using the McMillan calculator, people could run any distance that suits their training and uses an 3km equivalent time for the table. Just an idea.

shotgunmcos

Name|Surface|Nov '13|Dec|Jan|Feb|March|April|May|Jun|July'14
littlemsfickle|Road|19:59|||||||


No need to reinvented the wheel . Can amend as necessary. So, do we need a bike one too?!

BTH

shotgunmcos wrote: »

No need to reinvented the wheel . Can amend as necessary. So, do we need a bike one too?!

Is the bike one not essentially the FTP thread that was knocking around last year?

Ceepo

Fyi

3k is = to 100% of vo2
97% is = to 5k pace
93% is = to 10k pace
89% is = to hmp
85 % is = to Mar

It should be stressed that this is in a well trained athlete and used as a guide only

shotgunmcos

BTH wrote: »

Is the bike one not essentially the FTP thread that was knocking around last year?

Ah yes, forgot about that. My turbo hasn't seen light this year :rolleyes:

Ceepo

Fyi

3k is = to 100% of vo2
97% is = to 5k pace
93% is = to 10k pace
89% is = to hmp
85 % is = to Mar

It should be stressed that this is in a well trained athlete and used as a guide only

littlemsfickle

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Name|Surface|Nov '13|Dec|Jan|Feb|March|April|May|Jun|July'14
littlemsfickle|Road|19:59|||||||


No need to reinvented the wheel . Can amend as necessary. So, do we need a bike one too?!

Thanks for putting the table together....but if that's an estimated 3km time I'm a little offended:mad:

shotgunmcos

littlemsfickle wrote: »

Thanks for putting the table together....but if that's an estimated 3km time I'm a little offended:mad:

Of course not. Sure I've stalked you enough to know you are one of our speedy hoochies . Just needed to put some format in for people to follow. I know your 3km will put blushes on most of the boys

littlemsfickle

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Of course not. Sure I've stalked you enough to know you are one of our speedy hoochies . Just needed to put some format in for people to follow. I know your 3km will put blushes on most of the boys

It's on like Donkey Kong.

peter kern

I would not think 3 kk is best for judging current fitness . what a 3 k tt tells you is more about potential what you can run with some training in the future for longer distances or so to speak more a speed indicator and future predictor rather than judging current fitness
unless you are running only for 1 or 3 month as in AKW s article

Ceepo wrote: »

Would have to say a 3k tt is best for judging current fitness.
As it is as close as you can get to Vo2. And is easy to calculate training paces from.
It is also easier to recover from a 3k and dosent impinge on other training.

I take the point that some could do the 5k park runs. But that is only if you live near them. 5k road races are very few and far between this time of year as well.

Ceepo

peter kern wrote: »

I would not think 3 kk is best for judging current fitness . what a 3 k tt tells you is more about potential what you can run with some training in the future for longer distances or so to speak more a speed indicator and future predictor rather than judging current fitness
unless you are running only for 1 or 3 month as in AKW s article

Agree and disagree.

I never said it was the best. Just better than 5k. That's wad the debate. For some reasons below

It's good for gauging aerobic power. Calculating training paces.
Predicting potential times.
Can be done ad part of regular training without impinging on training.
Is a guide to measurable improvement.

Ceepo

peter kern wrote: »

I would not think 3 kk is best for judging current fitness . what a 3 k tt tells you is more about potential what you can run with some training in the future for longer distances or so to speak more a speed indicator and future predictor rather than judging current fitness
unless you are running only for 1 or 3 month as in AKW s article

Agree and disagree.

I never said it was the best. Just better than 5k. For some reasons below

It's good for gauging aerobic power. Calculating training paces.
Predicting potential times.
Can be done ad part of regular training without impinging on training.
Is a guide to measurable improvement.

sconhome

peter kern wrote: »

I would not think 3 kk is best for judging current fitness . what a 3 k tt tells you is more about potential what you can run with some training in the future for longer distances or so to speak more a speed indicator and future predictor rather than judging current fitness
unless you are running only for 1 or 3 month as in AKW s article

Its just a measure in the same way a bike FTP or swim 400m TT can be an indicator of improvement over a training block.

tunney

3km TTs are a good KPI for potential youth talent identification.

Are they relevant for benchmarking adult trained amateur triathletes? I don't think so.

30 minute TTs are my preference.

But the elephant in the room is in the absence of a metric that is independent of course no one has discussed course and condition normalisation. Unless of course the purpose of the thread is the proverbial reach around.

littlemsfickle

tunney wrote: »

3km TTs are a good KPI for potential youth talent identification.

Are they relevant for benchmarking adult trained amateur triathletes? I don't think so.

30 minute TTs are my preference.

But the elephant in the room is in the absence of a metric that is independent of course no one has discussed course and condition normalisation. Unless of course the purpose of the thread is the proverbial reach around.

....go out and run 3km. Time it. Preferably with a watch but if a sand timer is all you can get your hands on, don't sweat it.

peter kern

Sorry just to claryfy this as I dodnt want to split hairs. I was just pointing out that your argument is not entirley correct ( you said it was the better fitness indicator than a 5k tt and this is wrong. the longer a tt is the better the fitness indicator is )
as i said 3k tt its a good indicator of speed and talent and where an athlete could be in 2 years time over longer distances.

you also said its better for prediting race times
you are right if you want to predict 4k performace and bellow. for anything over 4km a 5 k tt is better to predict race times.
ps iam not sayin it makes a huger difference but when you say its better than this is not correct.

if it was me from the distances offered so far i would do 1 month a 3 k tt and the next month a 30 min test. you would get more info then just from a 3 k tt ( or for that matter a 400m swim tt)
ps if i have a client to train for an ironman I would not be telling him or her you are improving because 3 k tt gets faster( for an advanced athelte i would be kind of worried if they would not get slower over 3 k )

ps ceepo just to make it clear i was trying to help not haiving a go at you.

Ceepo wrote: »

Agree and disagree.

I never said it was the best. Just better than 5k. For some reasons below

It's good for gauging aerobic power. Calculating training paces.
Predicting potential times.
Can be done ad part of regular training without impinging on training.
Is a guide to measurable improvement.

Green&Red

Why dont we just use a 5k TT?
There are plenty of parkruns nationwide and if you're doing the same one then at least one parameter is stablised

RacoonQueen

Green&Red wrote: »

Why dont we just use a 5k TT?
There are plenty of parkruns nationwide and if you're doing the same one then at least one parameter is stablised

There are parkruns in Dublin, one in Cork, one in Mayo and a few up North. Hardly convenient for the rest of the country!

shotgunmcos

So anyone even do a 3km jog today to kick this off?

BTH

shotgunmcos wrote: »

So anyone even do a 3km jog today to kick this off?

Can't do it on my phone, but stick me down for a 10:06 last week. Bloody hurt.

shotgunmcos

Name|Oct '13|Nov|Dec|Jan|Feb|March|April|May|Jun|July'14
BTH|10:06||||||||
shotgunmcos|11:42|||||||||


Nice mark BTH!

El Director

Name|Oct '13|Nov|Dec|Jan|Feb|March|April|May|Jun|July'14
BTH|10:06||||||||
shotgunmcos|11:42|||||||||
El Director|11:39|||||||||


I can't resist a table so here I am

Based on a 5k TT (20:28) on Friday last. A long way to go but it's a start at least I guess.

shotgunmcos

El Director wrote: »

Name|Oct '13|Nov|Dec|Jan|Feb|March|April|May|Jun|July'14
BTH|10:06||||||||
shotgunmcos|11:42|||||||||
El Director|11:39|||||||||


I can't resist a table so here I am

Based on a 5k TT (20:28) on Friday last. A long way to go but it's a start at least I guess.

Did you fade that badly on the last 2km?

El Director

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Did you fade that badly on the last 2km?

I see what you mean That isn't how long it took me to cover the first 3k in that TT...I simply just plugged in my 5k TT time into McMillan to give me an estimate of my 3k time. I think I read a bit back that this would be acceptable...if not that's cool.

Peterx

I'm starting with a 12.30 for 3k from last Monday. In fairness I did 14 of them:D

I hope to manage a 10.30 next week.
I have no speed but should get down to 9.30 fairly quickly and then aim for sub 9 if feasible after that.

I'll set up a nicely net downhill 3km strava segment in the Phoneix Park (for anyone who plays on Strava)
The Castleknock main gate and along the road towards the Garda headquarters might be long enough.

If anyone has an Jones Counter they would be willing to lend I'll happily mark out an actual 3k, as opposed to a Strava estimate.

Bambaata

I think we need to add a stipulation that the elevation cannot be in negative figures!

tunney

Bambaata wrote: »

I think we need to add a stipulation that the elevation cannot be in negative figures!

Really should be a point to point lap.

tunney

tunney wrote: »

Really should be a point to point lap.

Wind and elevation

sconhome

7.5 loops of a track, neutralises all wind and elevation.

hypersonic

Ceepo wrote: »

Fyi
It should be stressed that this is in a well trained athlete and used as a guide only

is "well trained athlete" just code for not fat/heavy?

Chartsengrafs

Name|Oct '13|Nov|Dec|Jan|Feb|March|April|May|Jun|July'14
BTH|10:06||||||||
shotgunmcos|11:42|||||||||
El Director|11:39|||||||||
Basster|11.36|||||||||

MrCreosote

Name|Oct '13|Nov|Dec|Jan|Feb|March|April|May|Jun|July'14
BTH|10:06||||||||
shotgunmcos|11:42|||||||||
El Director|11:39|||||||||
Basster|11.36|||||||||
MrCreosote|10:01|||||||||


The big dinner I had was worth 2 seconds (I hope)

Green&Red

Name|Oct '13|Nov|Dec|Jan|Feb|March|April|May|Jun|July'14
BTH|10:06||||||||
shotgunmcos|11:42|||||||||
El Director|11:39|||||||||
Basster|11.36|||||||||
MrCreosote|10:01|||||||||
Green&Red|12:16|||||||||

Peterx

Name|Oct '13|Nov|Dec|Jan|Feb|March|April|May|Jun|July'14
BTH|10:06||||||||
shotgunmcos|11:42|||||||||
El Director|11:39|||||||||
Basster|11.36|||||||||
MrCreosote|10:01|||||||||
Green&Red|12:16|||||||||
Peterx||10.30||||||||


learning how to use tables
10.30 for 3k (a 17.28 5km Parkrun time multiplied by 0.6)

Getting to 9.30 will be a big challenge for me, with my lack of speediness I'd be much more confident of getting the fitness for a 10km in 34 minutes but that's not the challenge.
I should go back and edit my earlier post to expunge all mention of sub 9.

j0hn1

Name|Oct '13|Nov|Dec|Jan|Feb|March|April|May|Jun|July'14
BTH|10:06||||||||
shotgunmcos|11:42|||||||||
El Director|11:39|||||||||
Basster|11.36|||||||||
MrCreosote|10:01|||||||||
Green&Red|12:16|||||||||
Peterx||10.30||||||||
j0hn1||11:01||||||||

BeepBeep67

Made this a few years ago for a graded 3k race (think I used McMillan), anyway I used to grade someone using a time from a race other than a 3k. Might be of use in reverse for calculating a race time from a 3k TT.

Ciaran OHara

Can someone give me a quick explaination on how to add to the table?

BennyMul

Ciaran OHara wrote: »

Can someone give me a quick explaination on how to add to the table?

Click "Quote" on the last table entry.
from here remove the line (e.g. as its the last entry) [ QUOTE=j0hn1;87620704 ] and [ / QUOTE ]
now you can add your line
So copy j0hn1's line
replace the name with yours and of course change the time

Ciaran OHara

Name|Oct '13|Nov|Dec|Jan|Feb|March|April|May|Jun|July'14
BTH|10:06||||||||
shotgunmcos|11:42|||||||||
El Director|11:39|||||||||
Basster|11.36|||||||||
MrCreosote|10:01|||||||||
Green&Red|12:16|||||||||
Peterx||10.30||||||||
j0hn1||11:01||||||||
Ciaran OHara||10:59||||||||