Double up Milking parlor

delaval

We need to upgrade a parlour by adding more units. A double up looks like an option that would suit as any other addition would really mean a new greenfield build, not what. I am aware of all the lack of effeciency arguements. If anyone has one I'd be glad to hear your comments

bob charles

delaval wrote: »

We need to upgrade a parlour by adding more units. A double up looks like an option that would suit as any other addition would really mean a new greenfield build, not what. I am aware of all the lack of effeciency arguements. If anyone has one I'd be glad to hear your comments

call me thick but I saw a few second hand 10 row parlors for sale recently, around the 8k mark, could you not stick these one in front of the other and have the two going simultaneously. one big pump could drive the whole lot, one big tank. I best scoot as I havnt a clue what im talking about, whats new

delaval

bob charles wrote: »

call me thick but I saw a few second hand 10 row parlors for sale recently, around the 8k mark, could you not stick these one in front of the other and have the two going simultaneously. one big pump could drive the whole lot, one big tank. I best scoot as I havnt a clue what im talking about, whats new

Christ, I never thought of that:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

I tried to put in more rolly eyes but 15 is the limit

bob charles

delaval wrote: »

Christ, I never thought of that:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

I tried to put in more rolly eyes but 15 is the limit

any chance of a reason why it cant happen? thats a bit crap you cant insert more than 15 roly eyes

freedominacup

What are you extending/upgrading? Have you enough width in the pit for double up? How much upgrading will the vac and milk pump need if any?

I worked 16, 20, and 24 in my youth found the 16 reasonably handy but the bigger ones a nightmare for one man esp the 20 as all cows had to be identified with a handset as they entered the parlour for yield measuring and feed to yield. 300 cows in 3.75 hours with one man from cups on to completely washed down. Nightmare.

I saw a 31(?) unit straight westfalia a couple of weeks ago for 220 cows. Extension of a 16 unit. Very straightforward despite having a good few bells and whistles. Men after your own heart de. Excellent grass farmers, good solid reasonably high yielders but hardy. Pig feeders in parlour. They had a diet feeder though. They were pushing the 220 through in just over an hour.

delaval

bob charles wrote: »

any chance of a reason why it cant happen? thats a bit crap you cant insert more than 15 roly eyes

It would require a new dairy and complete rearrangement of our shed to exit cows. It would also mean abandoning our entrance and constructing another very long one to get to the yard, hard to explain but moving to a green field would be better value

delaval

What are you extending/upgrading? Have you enough width in the pit for double up? How much upgrading will the vac and milk pump need if any?

We have a 16 unit with 'just' enough width for double up. Vacuum pump needs upgrading, so its 16 units and 32 acrs required. Feeders already in place. Quoted 40k for upgrade, the fookin acrs are 800 each

jersey101

delaval wrote: »

What are you extending/upgrading? Have you enough width in the pit for double up? How much upgrading will the vac and milk pump need if any?

We have a 16 unit with 'just' enough width for double up. Vacuum pump needs upgrading, so its 16 units and 32 acrs required. Feeders already in place. Quoted 40k for upgrade, the fookin acrs are 800 each

Do you need the acrs for a double up? Could two ppl milk? One milker each side? Or are you looking to have one man looking after the 32 units?

freedominacup

delaval wrote: »

What are you extending/upgrading? Have you enough width in the pit for double up? How much upgrading will the vac and milk pump need if any?

We have a 16 unit with 'just' enough width for double up. Vacuum pump needs upgrading, so its 16 units and 32 acrs required. Feeders already in place. Quoted 40k for upgrade, the fookin acrs are 800 each

One of the BILs is investing. He was looking at extending from 8 to 16 in old building but is going to greenfield and is looking at around 150k for a 16 unit by the time everything is counted incl new slurry storage and ancillaryies that he is putting under the new roof. At that 40k doesn't look too bad if your current parlour works well from cow flow and operator comfort point of view.

Incidentally he was looking at 60-70k for putting the 16 in old building for milking equipment, stalls and feeders. Any building work was extra, extending pit, moving dairy etc.

freedominacup

jersey101 wrote: »

Do you need the acrs for a double up? Could two ppl milk?

2 people will have to milk certainly outside of mid-summer even with acrs.

mf240

delaval wrote: »

What are you extending/upgrading? Have you enough width in the pit for double up? How much upgrading will the vac and milk pump need if any?

We have a 16 unit with 'just' enough width for double up. Vacuum pump needs upgrading, so its 16 units and 32 acrs required. Feeders already in place. Quoted 40k for upgrade, the fookin acrs are 800 each

Would you need acrs in a double up.

Once the cows are in you just put them on one side then up the other and start talking them off down where you started.

Acrs are to allow you to get in the next row and prepare them you won't be doing this In a double.

Would you have two workers in it. If so one on each side and cows will only take half as long to enter exit as a 32. With one milked in back of pit and one in front.

mf240

freedominacup wrote: »

One of the BILs is investing. He was looking at extending from 8 to 16 in old building but is going to greenfield and is looking at around 150k for a 16 unit by the time everything is counted incl new slurry storage and ancillaryies that he is putting under the new roof. At that 40k doesn't look too bad if your current parlour works well from cow flow and operator comfort point of view.

Incidentally he was looking at 60-70k for putting the 16 in old building for milking equipment, stalls and feeders. Any building work was extra, extending pit, moving dairy etc.

That sounds very dear.

freedominacup

mf240 wrote: »

That sounds very dear.

The range across 4/5 different suppliers was less than 10k. That is for everything stallwork, gates, feeders and complete new milk plant.

delaval

jersey101 wrote: »

Do you need the acrs for a double up? Could two ppl milk? One milker each side? Or are you looking to have one man looking after the 32 units?

One man

jersey101

delaval wrote: »

One man

unless you want to hire another milker??

jersey101

http://m.donedeal.ie/mobile/for-sale/milkingparlours/5891699

There ye go.
Cheaoer than the 40k.

delaval

jersey101 wrote: »

http://m.donedeal.ie/mobile/for-sale/milkingparlours/5891699

There ye go.
Cheaoer than the 40k.

Saw it. Is it a double 16 as I only see 16 Acrs, of course he could be keeping 16

jersey101

delaval wrote: »

Saw it. Is it a double 16 as I only see 16 Acrs, of course he could be keeping 16

im not sure says 16x16 but dont know what that could mean to him. Would ye buy that and fit it in or would it just be a load of messing?

delaval

jersey101 wrote: »

im not sure says 16x16 but dont know what that could mean to him. Would ye buy that and fit it in or would it just be a load of messing?

I buy for 24k add 16 removers 13600
That's 37600 and not fitted yet

jersey101

delaval wrote: »

I buy for 24k add 16 removers 13600
That's 37600 and not fitted yet

probley room for a bit of haggling of your man though.
Altough at thay price you would be aswell of buying new

Farfield

There's a few double ups where we are but they are defo a two man job.

delaval

jersey101 wrote: »

probley room for a bit of haggling of your man though.
Altough at thay price you would be aswell of buying new

I would have my own to sell

bbam

They are a great way of using existing sheds and getting throughput..
You need a decent pit width or its very tight...
I saw a 12 double with no ACR's and a one man operation.. The other I worked was a 14 double with acr's and there is no doubt the 14 with the ACR's had a decent throughput with one man in the pit..

The 12 had jars both side but a very generous pit, but it is alot of stuff in a pit. The 14 had electronic meters and although the pit was narrower it felt much cleaner indeed., it also had was lines under the pit which saves on clutter.

Massey10

bbam wrote: »

They are a great way of using existing sheds and getting throughput..
You need a decent pit width or its very tight...
I saw a 12 double with no ACR's and a one man operation.. The other I worked was a 14 double with acr's and there is no doubt the 14 with the ACR's had a decent throughput with one man in the pit..

The 12 had jars both side but a very generous pit, but it is alot of stuff in a pit. The 14 had electronic meters and although the pit was narrower it felt much cleaner indeed., it also had was lines under the pit which saves on clutter.

One man milking a double up 12 unit would be under some pressure .Cows will end up being over milked .

delaval

jersey101 wrote: »

http://m.donedeal.ie/mobile/for-sale/milkingparlours/5891699

There ye go.
Cheaoer than the 40k.

Rang him its an 8 double up

bbam

Massey10 wrote: »

One man milking a double up 12 unit would be under some pressure .Cows will end up being over milked .

Remember.
Over milked is no problem if the machine is set 100% right.

freedominacup

delaval wrote: »

Rang him its an 8 double up

I thought as much. 16 x 16 means 16 cows and 16 clusters and so on.

Timmaay

Yeh in the north/uk double ups are much more common, a herringbone with 8units in the middle would have been called a 16x8.

bbam, slightly offtopic, but that's interesting, overmilking is an area me and my dad always seem to clash ha. Our machine is regularly tested, new vacuum gauge went in last year so I know its almost always functioning correctly. Anyways my dad tends to undermilk cows, whereas I would be on the side of overmilking (I often leave the pit in the middle of a row to do odd jobs, plenty free time with a 6unit!). I hate when he starts pulling off clusters and milk is dripping all over the place. SCC has never been much of an issue with me, its been in around the 250mark most the year with me, whereas often was above 400k with him previously. I know there are plenty more elements to SCC, but I really haven't seen any negative effects with me overmilking cows.

bbam

freedominacup wrote: »

I thought as much. 16 x 16 means 16 cows and 16 clusters and so on.

I'd take 16 x 16 to be 32 units.

bbam

Timmaay wrote: »

Yeh in the north/uk double ups are much more common, a herringbone with 8units in the middle would have been called a 16x8.

bbam, slightly offtopic, but that's interesting, overmilking is an area me and my dad always seem to clash ha. Our machine is regularly tested, new vacuum gauge went in last year so I know its almost always functioning correctly. Anyways my dad tends to undermilk cows, whereas I would be on the side of overmilking (I often leave the pit in the middle of a row to do odd jobs, plenty free time with a 6unit!). I hate when he starts pulling off clusters and milk is dripping all over the place. SCC has never been much of an issue with me, its been in around the 250mark most the year with me, whereas often was above 400k with him previously. I know there are plenty more elements to SCC, but I really haven't seen any negative effects with me overmilking cows.

A few mins overmilkiing with a good machine is OK. Think of a calf sucking a cow dry of milk, her udder rarely rots and falls off.

Regarding milk dripping when taking off clusters. Make sure the air bleeds in the claw pieces are clear. It will keep the milk up the tube. They also release the vacuum within the liner/claw when removing the cluster. It actually sounds like he is removing the cluster before the vacuum disapates. This can cause problems as if air enters too forcefully it Is jammed up onto the bottom of the teats and can damage them. Happens too if the valve in the claw isn't sealing the vacuum off completly. The cluster should be falling off the udder quite soon after you close the valve. The valve shuts off the vacuum and the air bleed releases the vacuum and the cluster is loose when removed. There should be no vacuum left at all when removing.

delaval

bbam wrote: »

I'd take 16 x 16 to be 32 units.

16x16 equals 8 cows and units each side
16x32 is 16 with 32 cows

That's what your man told me anyhow

bbam

delaval wrote: »

16x16 equals 8 cows and units each side
16x32 is 16 with 32 cows

That's what your man told me anyhow

I'll hold My hands up I haven't touched a parlour in quite a while, but as far as I remember the number refers to the number of cows milked.
A 16 unit herringbone parlour milks 16 cows. A 16x 16 parlour is a double up milking 16 each side.

freedominacup

bbam wrote: »

I'll hold My hands up I haven't touched a parlour in quite a while, but as far as I remember the number refers to the number of cows milked.
A 16 unit herringbone parlour milks 16 cows. A 16x 16 parlour is a double up milking 16 each side.

Not in UK bbam and that parlour was in NI. Definitely a different nomenclature here for parlours.

whelan1

freedominacup wrote: »

Not in UK bbam and that parlour was in NI. Definitely a different nomenclature here for parlours.

yes i remember it was hard to figure that out first when i was over there

bbam

freedominacup wrote: »

Not in UK bbam and that parlour was in NI. Definitely a different nomenclature here for parlours.

Fair enough.
Every day's a school day

keep going

A double 16 can still be one man operation with cluster remover s but would be slower.are you planning to put in 2 separate machines and just join at the receiving jar or will enlarge pipes or something else .I would think 2 separate lines would be the most cost effective.

bogman_bass

after the first row are double ups that much faster?

awaywithyou

we have a ten unit doubled up.... no acrs.... an absolute disaster with one man... running and racing from the word go... however works well with 2 milkers...

if we had acrs one milker would manage grand...

we're pricing around for a new parlour at the min.... and we wont be touching a doubled up!

whelan1

milked 360 cows in an 8 double up in england ... was a load of ****e

trixi2011

My uncle has a 8 unit doubled and its a pure disaster of a set up would prefer a 10 or 12 swing over, was only really put in so the existing shed could be used. If he was to build again he says he would definitely go green site and a swing over. Worked in a few bigger ones in the north when in collage really don't c the benefit, saying that have a friend with a 16 doubled up milking 300+ with rapid exits and he seems to like it.

delaval

trixi2011 wrote: »

My uncle has a 8 unit doubled and its a pure disaster of a set up would prefer a 10 or 12 swing over, was only really put in so the existing shed could be used. If he was to build again he says he would definitely go green site and a swing over. Worked in a few bigger ones in the north when in collage really don't c the benefit, saying that have a friend with a 16 doubled up milking 300+ with rapid exits and he seems to like it.

I presume you mean walking out the front.

How many cows per hour?

Is he in Ireland?

darragh_haven

I worked for a few days every week for nearly a year in a double 16 unit (16 each side) with quick exit and acr's. There was 280 going through it in the height of the milking period.
It was a 2 man operation through the year. 1 man just couldn't cope due to half the time there was a full 32 clusters needed to be put on due to slow or awkward milkers slowing up the previous row on one side, and both sides exiting within 20 or 30 seconds of each other.
The owners brother and father have their own milking parlours and both reckon the best one is the 18unit swing over that the younger brother has in one of the milking platforms ( milking 175 on that farm)

st1979

delaval wrote: »

I presume you mean walking out the front.

How many cows per hour?

Is he in Ireland?

No I would presume rapid exit means the cow stands with her arse at 90 deg and the frame lifts up so she walks straight. Needs a wider shed but is very fast to exit.

Massey10

bbam wrote: »

Remember.
Over milked is no problem if the machine is set 100% right.

Regular over milking will lead to cows milking slower .Newer machines have a system to prevent this by reducing the vacuum going to the cow once she is milked if no acrs are being fitted.

trixi2011

yip was in Ireland, don't know if it still stands as they were talking about upgrading it or putting in a rotary. was about 5 years ago when I saw it in action 2 cupping on was taking 3 housr to milk 400 from what I can remember, they had high yielding cows tho and done a lot of prep. The quick exit was straight out the front think it was a delavel parlour. There's either a 32 or a 35 double up just outside Antrim impressive set up but 3-4 people cupping.

visatorro

Is milking in a double up ten unit any quicker than an eight unit parlour? Would be including ACRs as mostly a one man job. Have no experience of double up jobs. Just looking at options.

freedominacup

visatorro wrote: »

Is milking in a double up ten unit any quicker than an eight unit parlour? Would be including ACRs as mostly a one man job. Have no experience of double up jobs. Just looking at options.

From my experience 15 in a swingover will do the same work as 20 in a double up. Whether that holds for smaller parlour I don't know.

Dawggone

Double up parlors are only useful in ayr herds.
You can have cows milking 50+ litres and cows close to drying off (20l) in the same row.

Swingover parlors to be used when cows are all in the same stage of lactation.

Panch18

Dawggone wrote: »

Double up parlors are only useful in ayr herds.
You can have cows milking 50+ litres and cows close to drying off (20l) in the same row.

Swingover parlors to be used when cows are all in the same stage of lactation.

Surely a handy option though if space and/or money are in tight supply?

Have never milked in one by the way

Mooooo

Id imagine emptying and loading up would be the most important part in output with a double up, so you would need space in front to get the cows out quick or ideally one of those rapid exit jobs where mangers lift up aand out of the way

Dawggone

Panch18 wrote: »

Surely a handy option though if space and/or money are in tight supply?

Have never milked in one by the way

Ayr calving fecks up throughput.

When cows are all in the same stage of lactation, the doubleup is only creating more work to wash up etc,. no real gain.