Property websites manipulating the housing market.

Need4House

Hi. We have been in rented accommodation for over two years at the same address. the money grubbing landlady has just jacked up the rent from 15 hundred a month to 1700.
The whole time we have be trying to buy somewhere on the bus route..as convenient for school and work etc.
The top price we can afford is 250 thousand. Of corse you cant get anything past a two bed flat for that money in this area...or can you?
There is an absolute con game going on with the house prices in south Dublin. And its about time people are made bloody aware of the crack estate and letting agents are pulling..using the internet as a tool.
Repeatedly I see the same houses for sale, they may be taken down for a month but then they are back up again like a bad penny..on Daft, Myhome and Rent. I cant be the only one who has noticed this. And its not due to people buying and then trying to quickly flip the houses for profit..not its something else thats going on.
When you call up one of these homes for sale, they have always supposedly "just been sold", yet a month later the same house is till up for sale...
The estate agents are using property websites to gauge interest, and then they put the house back up for another 20 grand and so on..once again manipulating the market.
Another sick tactic these EA's are pulling is you call up asking about a house, priced at ..lets say 300 grand..and the EA automatically makes out that even though its advertised at said price they are getting offers at 330..and once again a month later the house is still there...or up and down on the net like a yoyo.
All this whilst the property Price index is clearly showing a continual drop in actual sale prices..and the fact that banks are not giving out mortgages..or at least not mortgages big enough to cover 300 grand and upwards.
So the only people buying houses are cash buyers..and no..there are not that many cash buyers out there.
So what we actually have..(and you dont need to be a rocket scientist to figure it out)...is a whole slew of houses that cannot be shifted.
You would think this would bring the prices down even further, which it eventually will do..but more than that you would think it would be a buyers market..obviously...but no..not according to the EA's..no..its a sellers market and buyers are supposedly paying 10-30% over the asking prices for the same houses that are up month after month.
These greedy parasitic b457ard EA's are attempting to manipulate the sale market once again..and they seem to think its all going to go back to the good old days of the celtic tiger...morons. its these types of people who seem to dominate business in Ireland, and this is why Ireland will sink a hell of a lot further into the 5hi7 than it already has because that extreme greed and corruption from the tiger years is still alive and well, but the fools who participate in it are to stupid and ignorant to realize they are cutting off their own noses to spite their own faces, as well as everyone elses.
They are actually causing gridlock in the sales market and in turn helping the landlords of Dublin gouge everyone who is now forced to rent, because as its well know almost everyone is forced to rent these days.
Or is this the actual idea behind the con. Prevent anyone from buying so that the rental market will go into hyper drive..well that's exactly whats happening..and nobody is doing a bloody thing to stop it.
What these EA's along with the government are doing, by allowing this obvious manipulation to continue unchecked is causing yet another bubble in the rental market..and once lots of people are forced to leave Dublin due to the extrocionate rental prices, then the bubble will collapse..but it wont just collapse the rental bubble and all of these b457ard landlords and their parasite agents..but it will cost the entire country when Dublin starts to empty.. Am I angry..just a bit.
so if anyone out there along the stillorgan road wants to actually sell their house for a FAIR price get back to me ASAP.

hidinginthebush

One of the biggest problems is that most of the construction during the boom was apartments. Unfortunately, houses were not built on the same scale as apartments, those that were are pretty bad quality, and are further out than many people would like.

In your own case, you are looking to buy in a very sought after area. There is small supply and high demand. Have you considered looking at somewhere that isn't south dublin? Your criteria is pretty specific, any particular reason why you can't choose somewhere with a lower price range. Places like Drumcondra / Phibsboro / Glasnevin are all located very close to town, nice areas, have frequent bus service, haven't got the same prestige (and hence price tag) of places that close to town on the South side, and are solidly built homes.

On the estate agents, it could also be the case that the home owners themselves are putting the house up for 350K, believing they will get more than that, and if no offers come in, will take the house off the market for another few months and then when the inevitable Sindo article comes out 2 weeks later telling us all we've turned the corner, house prices can only go up, now is the time to buy before it's too late etc., the sellers think "now I'll definitely get the 350K, maybe more".

When you talk to the EA's about these houses, do you make offers, or just get disheartened at the price tag? If you like a house, and your mortgage is for 250K, feck it, put an offer in for 250K. The worst they can do is reject your offer, but you never know, that could be what the seller is willing to take.

It's actually quite funny, when I was doing a postgrad in the mid/late 2000's and hadn't 2 sticks to rub together, I was quite disheartened thinking I'd NEVER be able to afford a house of my own, with the way prices were rocketing. Then the arse fell out of the market and I grew optimistic that it could be done. Now though we are getting the same old tale that housing prices have bottomed and can only go up and up. Hell, maybe they have! But I'm now wondering if I should buy now before it's too late. I have to calm myself down and force myself not to panic buy a house. The problem is the different interest groups that want the prices to soar again are banging their drum every day and people are starting to march to the beat. Jaysus, I've even heard the old "rent is dead money" line spouted recently.

ted1

The estate agent and owner want to get the best price, there's no manipulation.

Prices are on the up, there realising that and by taking the house of the market for a few months they'll get more €

handlemaster

If the seller doesn't want to sell it at the price you want to buy the house at you either up your price offer or walk away. Your maz of 250 k seem s very low for the area your looking in

lima

It's business at the end of the day, the EA's are playing a game, just be very careful not to give in. It will all dry up soon when all the backlog of renters with huge deposits dry up. Prices will come down if repossessions happen (which they rightly should).

Money makes everyone sneaky and sly, everyone wants to make (or save) a buck. They are playing the same game as people waiting for prices to drop more - the old hang on for a few more months and you will make/save money.

As a fence-sitter I find it all interesting. Irish people panic-buying. Obsessed with 'SCD'. Remember that once you commit to a mortgage you are stuck in this country for a long time!

ted1

look at his this way.
the average industrial wage is about €41.8K this will give enable people to buy a house for about 200k. a young couple working in retail will have a combined inconme of about 45k

In general people looking at houses in South Dublin will have higher than the Average industrial wage, and if a partner is working then they'll get more. so this puts prices in excess 300+

Unfortuantly you missed the bottom of the market, you'll either have to get more money or keep renting and hope the market drops, or look elsewhere.

D3PO

What a load of nonsense in the opening post.

Want to know why you cant buy this house your renting for 1500 a month for under 250k. Its a thing called rental yield.

As for EAs manipulating the price. They seller decided what to price at and weather a sale is achieved or not is down to one very simple thing.

SUPPLY & DEMAND.

Come back to me when you actually understand how the market works.

P.S You cant afford to buy in SCD the sooner you realize this the sooner you can move on with your life.

lima

ted1 wrote: »

In general people looking at houses in South Dublin will have higher than the Average industrial wage, and if a partner is working then they'll get more. so this puts prices in excess 300+

Also people looking in North Dublin will have higher than the average industrial wage. Clontarf, Howth, Sutton, Portmarnock, Malahide. I earn more than the average wage and I have no interest in South Dublin. some people think that South Dublin is a utopia compared to the rest of Dublin, however there are other, equally 'ok' places to live.

Suggest you don't buy in to the South Dublin thing as it's already severely overpriced due to lack of stock and a perception of utopia. You can really get better places to live in Dublin, beside the beach, closer to the airport etc. with less of the 'old money' feel

D3PO

lima wrote: »

Also people looking in North Dublin will have higher than the average industrial wage. Clontarf, Howth, Sutton, Portmarnock, Malahide. I earn more than the average wage and I have no interest in South Dublin. some people think that South Dublin is a utopia compared to the rest of Dublin, however there are there are other, equally 'ok' places to live.

Get that chip off your shoulder. The OP mentioned SCD so that's what replies are regarding. You like the northside we get it you have said it a dozen times now. Good for you.

iguana

D3PO wrote: »

What a load of nonsense in the opening post.

Want to know why you cant buy this house your renting for 1500 a month for under 250k. Its a thing called rental yield.

Using rental yield calculations, €250k is what a house renting for €1500 is worth. As it provides a 7% yield. Your argument just adds weight to the OP's point.

lima

D3PO wrote: »

Get that chip off your shoulder. The OP mentioned SCD so that's what replies are regarding. You like the northside we get it you have said it a dozen times now. Good for you.

Just saying...

Perhaps my advise is constructive to the OP. If you don't like it then that is ok, however don't tell me have a chip, I just don't like it when some posters consistently insinuate that the North of Dublin is bad and the south of Dublin is good.

sbsquarepants

D3PO wrote: »

What a load of nonsense in the opening post.

Want to know why you cant buy this house your renting for 1500 a month for under 250k. Its a thing called rental yield.

That's almost 14 years rent.
What would be considered reasonable these days?

As for websites manipulating the market - I have noticed a lot of prices being dropped 10 or 15% only to be raised by 10 or 15% a few weeks later, presumably to make it look like there is a bidding war in progress. But sure that's just part of the game - they are out to make money for themselves, not to save it for you. That's your job OP!

D3PO

iguana wrote: »

Using rental yield calculations, €250k is what a house renting for €1500 is worth. As it provides a 7% yield. Your argument just adds weight to the OP's point.

given yield should be calculated based on 11 months and not 12 months that's actually not correct its closer to 6.5% besides which it seems clear 1700 a month is achievable in rent based on the opening post. I also don't see how that adds weight to the OPs point. An ROI of 5% would be happily taken by most investors which would mean 250k far undervalues the property.

At 1700 a month an investor would happily invest 375k plus on one of these properties and take the yield. (5% based on 11 months annual occupancy)

So again explain how it adds weight to the OP's point ?

D3PO

lima wrote: »

, however don't tell me have a chip, I just don't like it when some posters consistently insinuate that the North of Dublin is bad and the south of Dublin is good.

That's exactly where your chip is. Show me where anybody has said that the North of Dublin is bad ? Just because somebody wants to live in SCD doesn't mean they don't think areas like Malahide, Howth etc aren't fantastic areas.

Get over yourself.

Villa05

[quote="D3PO;87166939"

SUPPLY & DEMAND.

Come back to me when you actually understand how the market works.

P.S You cant afford to buy in SCD the sooner you realize this the sooner you can move on with your life.[/quote]
Can you educate us on how a working market deals with those who cant/wont pay and how this impactst supply

D3PO

Villa05 wrote: »

Can you educate us on how a working market deals with those who cant/wont pay and how this impactst supply

No because first and foremost there is more than one market and the macro economic environment impacts very differently on all of them.

But you know this already so Im not really sure why your asking this.

What is fair to say is that if properties in an area can be let for 1700 a month even if there is a plethora of those that cant/wont pay in this area and all of those were repo'd in the morning that investors will happily pay well over the 250k the OP things is "fair" based on the yield that can be returned.

I don't really think I need to argue the point that the floor in SCD will always remain above 250K. If this has to be explained to somebody well quite frankly they don't have a grasp on that particular housing market.

Ive never professed that Ireland has a collective working housing market, but some are more dysfunctional than others. The SCD market would be on the scale of things one of the more functional ones.

Ortiz

The original post is absolutely farcical. Why would EA's not want to sell properties???

Your budget is too low for the area you are looking in so reassess your criteria.

Stop thinking everyone is against you - the market has picked up significantly and demand is exceeding supply in many parts of Dublin. This has naturally led to an increase in sales prices (so I would have a look at the PPR again and figure out why you are the only person in the country that reckons prices are continuing to fall in D4).

Rents are also up in Dublin so if €1,500 per month was the market rent on your property a year ago or so then your landlord has every right to seek an increase.

Many houses are selling for above their asking prices so this is not a "sick tactic" employed by EA's.

You seriously need to cop on to the way the market is currently operating or just keep your conspiracy theories to yourself because it is actually hard to read that rubbish.

pwurple

OP is more than likely in a property valued at well over 250k for that rent. He/She wants it all... big house, in an expensive location, but not to have to pay for it like anyone else does.

handlemaster

I think the op is pulling the mick

frank_drebin

ive enquired about tonnes of houses in Dublin lately , in most cases the asking price on the main websites had been well exceeded

the desired locations of Dublin are up about 20% in the past two years , its as clear as mud

Ray Palmer

The OP has one post and launches an attack on so many people. I particularly love the fact a LL is money grubber for putting up the rent. Rents go up why should the LL let you have cheap rent?

Plus I don't see how any of it matches to websites manipulating the market.

iguana

D3PO wrote: »

given yield should be calculated based on 11 months and not 12 months that's actually not correct its closer to 6.5% besides which it seems clear 1700 a month is achievable in rent based on the opening post. I also don't see how that adds weight to the OPs point. An ROI of 5% would be happily taken by most investors which would mean 250k far undervalues the property.

At 1700 a month an investor would happily invest 375k plus on one of these properties and take the yield. (5% based on 11 months annual occupancy)

So again explain how it adds weight to the OP's point ?

Anyone who thinks that anything less than a 10% gross yield is a good return on an investment that requires as much work as being a landlord is clearly still focused in the capital gains that can be acquired in a bubble bmarket. A 5% return is an utter joke for that level of financial and personal investment.

Need4House

I see there are a lot of people on this thread who seem very irate at my opinion..wonder why? would it be the very people I'm complaining about by any chance?

So some idiots on even this thread are making out the market is on the up, when the price index says otherwise, when lenders are not lending to first time buyers and when there is no legitimate reason for anyone to bend over backwards to even live in Dublin these days as there is not exactly a boom in jobs...I mean that's why people live in South Dub..JOBS..so if there are no great increase in jobs or wages then whats the crack?

So once again we are hearing the same old wind bags, who seem to think the clock can be rewound simply by demanding it...it cant be done and due to this pig headed mentality of the likes of many posters on this thread, things are rapidly getting worse, because unlike those who think they know economics, they clearly bloody well do not have a clue, other than how to rip people off in the short term.

"supply and demand" really, well every week I know someone who is quitting their job and emigrating. The only reason there is demand in the rental market is because of market manipulation and the stagnant sales market..OBVIOUSLY if you cant get a mortgage you have no choice but to rent. But I see a lot of you on here seem to think there is some big prize to live in south Dub? Really can someone tell me what that is??? its hardly New York city is it. I see nothing of any greatness here, or am I missing something??? Most average cities in the world have more going on and this is a capital remember...The only thing going for it is the bus route (when they can be bothered running) and that's right the fares are going up again anyway. Wages are also stagnant, so for all you fools who think pushing up rentals is a clever business tactic, its actually called extorcion, and price gouging, its not considered "business" its considered criminal by most people, something gangsters do not legitimate business people... of course in Ireland its standard business practice though...and the same thinking behind blanket bank bail outs and every Taoiseach we have seen in the last 30 years etc.

And actually all things considered there is no longer any actual justification in the prices in south Dublin..if mortgages are not matching them, then the only buyers will be cash buyers, but you need first time buyers to actually be at the bottom of the chain otherwise you do not have a chain. Like i said many on this thread are clueless to actual economics and that speaks volumes as to why the housing market is stagnant and also why we had the ridiculous bubble at the height of the so called boom..I suppose the million euro one bedroom flats were worth it too???

There is a tipping point here and something the money grubbers have not figured out. most of these rental properties are able to gouge the tenants because most of the tenants are "young professional" who share a house, 2, 3, or 4 to a house. Well more and more of those young professionals are clearing off to other countries..and what your left with is fewer people sharing, therefore each individual is bearing a greater burden of rent..and now stick on a 20% rent increase. How many more people do you think will just decide the wages are not keeping up with the rents??? i can tell you its already a steady stream which will soon break the banks. Your pricing out the very people who have been sustaining the rental market and when that happens all you landlords and EA's will get yours.

The sooner the better, only complete idiots would not see it coming. Like I said the Irish "business brains" don't know their arse from their elbows. The reason this country has failed is due to this very same mentality, of squeezing people for short term profits at the expense of long term stagnation and emigration. It highlights what the so called patriotic Irish really think of their own countrymen and women. Rip us all off and in turn rip the life out of the country. Smart..really smart.

lima

D3PO wrote: »

That's exactly where your chip is. Show me where anybody has said that the North of Dublin is bad ? Just because somebody wants to live in SCD doesn't mean they don't think areas like Malahide, Howth etc aren't fantastic areas.

Get over yourself.

At least you understand. My point is that all this obsession with SCD is misleading people to think about purchasing in this area when in fact they could save a lot of cash by purchasing in desirable areas in other parts of Dublin. Suits me personally but perhaps the OP can consider some other areas as they are clearly priced out of bubble SCD.

ted1

Need4House wrote: »

I see there are a lot of people on this thread who seem very irate at my opinion..wonder why? would it be the very people I'm complaining about by any chance?
So some idiots on even this thread are making out the market is on the up, when the price index says otherwise, when lenders are not lending to first time buyers and when there is no legitimate reason for anyone to bend over backwards to even live in Dublin these days as there is not exactly a boom in jobs...I mean that's why people live in South Dub..JOBS..so if there are no great increase in jobs or wages then whats the crack?
So once again we are hearing the same old wind bags, who seem to think the clock can be rewound simply by demanding it...it cant be done and due to this pig headed mentality of the likes of many posters on this thread, things are rapidly getting worse, because unlike those who think they know economics, they clearly bloody well do not have a clue, other than how to rip people off in the short term.
"supply and demand" really, well every week I know someone who is quitting their job and emigrating. The only reason there is demand in the rental market is because of market manipulation and the stagnant sales market..OBVIOUSLY if you cant get a mortgage you have no choice but to rent. But I see a lot of you on here seem to think there is some big prize to live in south Dub? Really can someone tell me what that is??? its hardly New York city is it. I see nothing of any greatness here, or am I missing something??? Most average cities in the world have more going on and this is a capital remember...The only thing going for it is the bus route (when they can be bothered running) and that's right the fares are going up again anyway. Wages are also stagnant, so for all you fools who think pushing up rentals is a clever business tactic, its actually called extorcion, and price gouging, its not considered "business" its considered criminal by most people, something gangsters do not legitimate business people... of course in Ireland its standard business practice though...and the same thinking behind blanket bank bail outs and every Taoiseach we have seen in the last 30 years etc.
And actually all things considered there is no longer any actual justification in the prices in south Dublin..if mortgages are not matching them, then the only buyers will be cash buyers, but you need first time buyers to actually be at the bottom of the chain otherwise you do not have a chain. Like i said many on this thread are clueless to actual economics and that speaks volumes as to why the housing market is stagnant and also why we had the ridiculous bubble at the height of the so called boom..I suppose the million euro one bedroom flats were worth it too???
There is a tipping point here and something the money grubbers have not figured out. most of these rental properties are able to gouge the tenants because most of the tenants are "young professional" who share a house, 2, 3, or 4 to a house. Well more and more of those young professionals are clearing off to other countries..and what your left with is fewer people sharing, therefore each individual is bearing a greater burden of rent..and now stick on a 20% rent increase. How many more people do you think will just decide the wages are not keeping up with the rents??? i can tell you its already a steady stream which will soon break the banks. Your pricing out the very people who have been sustaining the rental market and when that happens all you landlords and EA's will get yours. The sooner the better, only complete idiots would not see it coming. Like I said the Irish "business brains" don't know their arse from their elbows. The reason this country has failed is due to this very same mentality, of squeezing people for short term profits at the expense of long term stagnation and emigration. It highlights what the so called patriotic Irish really think of their own countrymen and women. Rip us all off and in turn rip the life out of the country. Smart..really smart.

Wow , bet you feel better after that rant

Need4House

lima wrote: »

At least you understand. My point is that all this obsession with SCD is misleading people to think about purchasing in this area when in fact they could save a lot of cash by purchasing in desirable areas in other parts of Dublin. Suits me personally but perhaps the OP can consider some other areas as they are clearly priced out of bubble SCD.

I dont even want to live here..its due to the kid being in school, who doesn't want to move school...otherwise id have been off long ago..and that's my point..the free agents who are not bound by families, have gone already or are still leaving in droves. The families renting are in a minority in south dub and it will be a case of the straw breaking the camels back shortly. My job has not jumped 200 euro a month but the rent has..and not just my rent. Yet some people think that's clever? Rather than accepting the 15 hundred for another year or two...why not push us out altogether...this is the Irish mentality when it comes to property..I seen it all over. Remember the ghost estates, all over the country..well not so long ago, in 2007, I couldnt negotiate a 10% price drop on a new house...the same houses now are lying abandoned. I couldnt negotiate a 10% drop in my rent back in 2007 either up in Donegal and the same houses are lying empty for the past number of years, incredibly the same EA's up there still have their jobs..only in Ireland.. See what you have is a pig headed greed in Ireland, and the end result is nobody wins..and in south Dublin they are still at it..but mark my words and remember you heard it here first...the landlords and EA's of south Dub are heading for a massive fall...the only sad thing about that is they will make sure they take the tenants with them first.

Sleepy

Aw... it's like having our very own Hope Ur OK Hun xxxx

lima

Need4House wrote: »

I see there are a lot of people on this thread who seem very irate at my opinion..wonder why? would it be the very people I'm complaining about by any chance?
So some idiots on even this thread are making out the market is on the up, when the price index says otherwise, when lenders are not lending to first time buyers and when there is no legitimate reason for anyone to bend over backwards to even live in Dublin these days as there is not exactly a boom in jobs...I mean that's why people live in South Dub..JOBS..so if there are no great increase in jobs or wages then whats the crack?
So once again we are hearing the same old wind bags, who seem to think the clock can be rewound simply by demanding it...it cant be done and due to this pig headed mentality of the likes of many posters on this thread, things are rapidly getting worse, because unlike those who think they know economics, they clearly bloody well do not have a clue, other than how to rip people off in the short term.
"supply and demand" really, well every week I know someone who is quitting their job and emigrating. The only reason there is demand in the rental market is because of market manipulation and the stagnant sales market..OBVIOUSLY if you cant get a mortgage you have no choice but to rent. But I see a lot of you on here seem to think there is some big prize to live in south Dub? Really can someone tell me what that is??? its hardly New York city is it. I see nothing of any greatness here, or am I missing something??? Most average cities in the world have more going on and this is a capital remember...The only thing going for it is the bus route (when they can be bothered running) and that's right the fares are going up again anyway. Wages are also stagnant, so for all you fools who think pushing up rentals is a clever business tactic, its actually called extorcion, and price gouging, its not considered "business" its considered criminal by most people, something gangsters do not legitimate business people... of course in Ireland its standard business practice though...and the same thinking behind blanket bank bail outs and every Taoiseach we have seen in the last 30 years etc.
And actually all things considered there is no longer any actual justification in the prices in south Dublin..if mortgages are not matching them, then the only buyers will be cash buyers, but you need first time buyers to actually be at the bottom of the chain otherwise you do not have a chain. Like i said many on this thread are clueless to actual economics and that speaks volumes as to why the housing market is stagnant and also why we had the ridiculous bubble at the height of the so called boom..I suppose the million euro one bedroom flats were worth it too???
There is a tipping point here and something the money grubbers have not figured out. most of these rental properties are able to gouge the tenants because most of the tenants are "young professional" who share a house, 2, 3, or 4 to a house. Well more and more of those young professionals are clearing off to other countries..and what your left with is fewer people sharing, therefore each individual is bearing a greater burden of rent..and now stick on a 20% rent increase. How many more people do you think will just decide the wages are not keeping up with the rents??? i can tell you its already a steady stream which will soon break the banks. Your pricing out the very people who have been sustaining the rental market and when that happens all you landlords and EA's will get yours. The sooner the better, only complete idiots would not see it coming. Like I said the Irish "business brains" don't know their arse from their elbows. The reason this country has failed is due to this very same mentality, of squeezing people for short term profits at the expense of long term stagnation and emigration. It highlights what the so called patriotic Irish really think of their own countrymen and women. Rip us all off and in turn rip the life out of the country. Smart..really smart.

I completely understand how you feel, despite the rambling nature of your post.

You need to understand that Ireland is dead. The country does not care one bit about the future generations. A massive greedy generation got burned in the boom and are as adamant as ever to make as much money back as possible, with the younger generation suffering. All the people think about here is money and their own families. Nothing else.

There is no point in even talking about it on here. just do what you can to make as much money from the place, milk it dry, take as much as you can and use it to support your family. Everyone else from politicians to landlords are doing it, just take what you can.

I wouldn't bother get into an argument on here, most people on here want to see the artificial property floor continue, as it is in their interest. Ireland will make it as difficult as possible for Buy To Lets and Family Homes to be Repossessed and even lunatic lobby groups are gaining traction. It is incredible to witness!

Need4House

Ortiz wrote: »

The original post is absolutely farcical. Why would EA's not want to sell properties???

Your budget is too low for the area you are looking in so reassess your criteria.

Stop thinking everyone is against you - the market has picked up significantly and demand is exceeding supply in many parts of Dublin. This has naturally led to an increase in sales prices (so I would have a look at the PPR again and figure out why you are the only person in the country that reckons prices are continuing to fall in D4).

Rents are also up in Dublin so if €1,500 per month was the market rent on your property a year ago or so then your landlord has every right to seek an increase.

Many houses are selling for above their asking prices so this is not a "sick tactic" employed by EA's.

You seriously need to cop on to the way the market is currently operating or just keep your conspiracy theories to yourself because it is actually hard to read that rubbish.

Could it be the EA's dont want to negotiate on price because the same EA's are in the lettings business also..making a nice and increasing profit there. DUH. The market has not bloody picked up increasingly..what country are you living in??? Do you even look at the house price index...everything is down atleast 10% in south Dub...the only few that are ever up are the houses that cost around a million, as some idiots will always want to live in the super exclusive streets next to Bono or whoever...but those increases are about 1% of the market in south dub..every other house 99% of them are all down in price..and rightly so. And they have much further to drop until first time buyers can reignite the stagnant market here. There are several problems with the housing market..those stuck in negative equity cant sell for a lower price than they bought..and this has obviously frozen large chunks of the market solid. the only ones who can buy and sell are people who own their houses outright..or repossessions.
Now you would think there would be tons of NAMA repos on the market in south Dub..but NAMA is in on the same act of hoarding its properties (the ones we paid for) and are now renting them back to us...fkin hilarious..you couldnt make it up.

D3PO

iguana wrote: »

Anyone who thinks that anything less than a 10% gross yield is a good return on an investment that requires as much work as being a landlord is clearly still focused in the capital gains that can be acquired in a bubble bmarket. A 5% return is an utter joke for that level of financial and personal investment.

Id disagree, the capital gains are an additional bonus. A 5% return in a market with 1% inflation is not an utter joke, you have to reflect the return against the current environment.

Of course you can get better returns in other ways but a large part of investment is diversification of your portfolio and bricks and mortar are part of that. I challenge you to show me any properties available right now where a 10% yield is available right now ?

Id say they are far and few between if you can even find any.

Need4House

lima wrote: »

I completely understand how you feel, despite the rambling nature of your post.

You need to understand that Ireland is dead. The country does not care one bit about the future generations. A massive greedy generation got burned in the boom and are as adamant as ever to make as much money back as possible, with the younger generation suffering. All the people think about here is money and their own families. Nothing else.

There is no point in even talking about it on here. just do what you can to make as much money from the place, milk it dry, take as much as you can and use it to support your family. Everyone else from politicians to landlords are doing it, just take what you can.

I wouldn't bother get into an argument on here, most people on here want to see the artificial property floor continue, as it is in their interest. Ireland will make it as difficult as possible for Buy To Lets and Family Homes to be Repossessed and even lunatic lobby groups are gaining traction. It is incredible to witness!

Well atleast someone sees reality. I was beginning to think everyone here was deaf dumb and blind. The thing is, I agree and this is Ireland but what gets me most is the same people make out they love their country or still go on about "the Brits" what a bunch of hypocrites...that's what really gets me. Stalin destroyed his own countrymen too.

pwurple

Need4House wrote: »

Could it be the EA's dont want to negotiate on price because the same EA's are in the lettings business also..

Or could it be that they are acting under direction of their clients and customers? I'd be fairly pissed off as a seller if the EA didn't put up a fight for a higher sale price.

Need4House

D3PO wrote: »

Id disagree, the capital gains are an additional bonus. A 5% return in a market with 1% inflation is not an utter joke, you have to reflect the return against the current environment.

Of course you can get better returns in other ways but a large part of investment is diversification of your portfolio and bricks and mortar are part of that. I challenge you to show me any properties available right now where a 10% yield is available right now ?

Id say they are far and few between if you can even find any.

This is what im talking about...why should a landlord expect anything other than breaking even at this point in time? Im not making 5%...I aint getting a wage increase, to meet your 5%. See basic understanding of BASIC economics, It's missing here isnt it. No common sense, just blind greed. If you want to make a profit, go and invest in a country that is currently on the up...it isn't Ireland..or does that really need to be rammed home to some people. You cant squeeze blood from a stone..but evidently the Irish landlords think they can, well if you squeeze a stone that hard you will get blood but it will be your own.

D3PO

Need4House wrote: »

I dont even want to live here..its due to the kid being in school, who doesn't want to move school...otherwise id have been off long ago..and that's my point..the free agents who are not bound by families, .

Are you a parent or your children's friend ?

Sometimes parents have to make hard decisions based on the best their for the family as a collective. If that means their child is upset at leaving their school and friends that's unfortunate but its not an overwhelming reason to get attached to an area and get trapped so to speak.

Your the parent, its your job to make tough decisions.

D3PO

Need4House wrote: »

This is what im talking about...why should a landlord expect anything other than breaking even at this point in time? Im not making 5%...I aint getting a wage increase, to meet your 5%. See basic understanding of BASIC economics, It's missing here isnt it. No common sense, just blind greed. If you want to make a profit, go and invest in a country that is currently on the up...it isn't Ireland..or does that really need to be rammed home to some people. You cant squeeze blood from a stone..but evidently the Irish landlords think they can, well if you squeeze a stone that hard you will get blood but it will be your own.

Your not getting a wage increase why do you think you are the collective ? SCD is an in demand area somebody who earns more or is getting these wage increases will replace you in the blink of an eye.

Your flawed thinking is that you believe that you should be able to rent / own in one of the most sought after areas of the country. Its expensive and sought after because the general demographic of people that live there are professionals who are not the average joe with the average salary.

as for squeezing blood from a stone. That LL will have no problem renting out the property if you move out, don't think they are reliant on you they aren't.

But if your concerned about the price of rent in the area you can probably rent somewhere for 10-20% less in Dundrum only 7-8 mins from where you are .....

Sought after areas require a premium to be paid because they are sought after.... So either pay it or move, the basis of your rant is nonsensical.

Need4House

pwurple wrote: »

Or could it be that they are acting under direction of their clients and customers? I'd be fairly pissed off as a seller if the EA didn't put up a fight for a higher sale price.

Yes...but that isnt what Im talking about..Im talking about houses up at 220 one week..then a moth later same house up at 270 and then a couple of months later same house at 295..when all the while everytime you call about the house..its sold.

Not just that but you call a house at 270..for instance and the EA tells you they are getting offers at 300 and over...and once again two months later its still on the market at 270.

Bearing in mind...people are not getting mortgages ion most cases. Also bearing in mind the index shows a continual drop in SALE prices.

See, its fun and games messing people about, thats what these EA's are all about., they don't care if they grind the market to a hold, because they are also fleecing people in the rental market.

Like I said all this is done to artificially manipulate the market. No way should they be getting away with it but they do mainly because the government and NAMA it at the same business. Where are all those NAMA properties we were promised would flood the market???? When were told there is a shortage of supply??? NAMA are renting those properties out...in on the same rental racket..but whats worse we own the NAMA properties as the tax payer paid for the bank bail out. Now we have the luxury of renting at extortionate rates too.

Need4House

D3PO wrote: »

Your not getting a wage increase why do you think you are the collective ? SCD is an in demand area somebody who earns more or is getting these wage increases will replace you in the blink of an eye.

Your flawed thinking is that you believe that you should be able to rent / own in one of the most sought after areas of the country. Its expensive and sought after because the general demographic of people that live there are professionals who are not the average joe with the average salary.

as for squeezing blood from a stone. That LL will have no problem renting out the property if you move out, don't think they are reliant on you they aren't.

But if your concerned about the price of rent in the area you can probably rent somewhere for 10-20% less in Dundrum only 7-8 mins from where you are .....

Sought after areas require a premium to be paid because they are sought after.... So either pay it or move, the basis of your rant is nonsensical.

Are you a landlord by any chance?
Like I said my logic is sound..SD is only sought after if there are the opportunities here. And there are not, not anything like there were. People would not be continually leaving otherwise..and by the way plently of people are walking out on careers to go to nothing in Australia and Canada..a risky move, but from the ones Ive spoken to, the general opinion is that it is no longer worth working here as they cant get a foot on the property ladder and are sick of p155ing in the wind throwing money away to landlords. They would rather take their savings and have fun in the sun.

D3PO

PS. Id hate to know what you think of greedy companies like Veolia or Dublin Bus whos fares are due to go up 10%

But your not getting a 10% pay rise how grossly unfair of them to do it ......

D3PO

Need4House wrote: »

Bearing in mind...people are not getting mortgages ion most cases. Also bearing in mind the index shows a continual drop in SALE prices.

.

FACEPALM.

Sale prices in SCD are not dropping. Care to link us some data to your completely wrong claim.

As trust me a lot of people are getting mortgages and a lot of people have approval for the prices of houses in the very area(s) your looking at.

D3PO

Need4House wrote: »

Are you a landlord by any chance? or is it an estate or lettings agent?

No not a LL and I hate EA's I think they are lying cheating scumbags, doesn't mean I have to grab a pitchfork and automatically feel that market is being manipulated though.

Need4House

D3PO wrote: »

FACEPALM.

Sale prices in SCD are not dropping. Care to link us some data to your completely wrong claim.

As trust me a lot of people are getting mortgages and a lot of people have approval for the prices of houses in the very area(s) your looking at.

FACEPALM...how old are you 15?
You show your intellect with your expression.
Oh and no...I dont trust you..I dont need to as i can see things with my own eyes to know different.

ted1

What index are you looking at?

All reports I see highlight The area as increasing they actual make the point. That it's the best performing area

D3PO

Need4House wrote: »

FACEPALM...how old are you 15?
You show your intellect with your expression.
Oh and no...I dont trust you..I dont need to as i can see things with my own eyes to know different.

Unless your own eyes became an index that contradicts everything else there not very relevant.

Perhaps its the red mist that's evident in your opening rant preventing your very eyes from seeing the reality ?

Need4House

D3PO wrote: »

No not a LL and I hate EA's I think they are lying cheating scumbags, doesn't mean I have to grab a pitchfork and automatically feel that market is being manipulated though.

No market manipulation you say...
well explain why the same houses are up for over a year on the same sites...when you call they are always gone...always.
explain how that isnt manipulating the market. They cant shift most of these houses in the 3-400 price range as people are not getting approved for mortgages past 200K. thats why they are up for over a year but supposedly always sold...but only when you call up.
Like I said the same EA's are making out people are paying over the odds and bidding wars...standard lies in EA business...all done to drive up prices in a booming market..sly and underhanded but understandable in a booming market...idiotic and counter productive in a stagnant or falling market..that's what im talking about.
The priority for any EA with a brain would be to get the market moving again by selling at reasonable, realistic and achievable prices..but if the same homes are up for over a year with fluctuating prices..it says it all...they are not shifting them.

wexie

Need4House wrote: »

FACEPALM...how old are you 15?
You show your intellect with your expression.
Oh and no...I dont trust you..I dont need to as i can see things with my own eyes to know different.

You should go see an optician.

Prices in areas of SCD are increasing, as are cash sales.

As other people have already pointed out several times, there's no point ranting and raving here. The simple fact is that there are still plenty of people in Dublin who have good (rising) incomes and combined with a lack of new builds in SCD this is causing prices to rise again.

miezekatze

OP, I bought a house not too far from your area a bit over a month ago, so I have also been tracking price movements in several areas in South Dublin. I'm not sure why you would say that prices are going down, because they are just not. There is still a lot of demand in the area, and there are first time buyers that get mortgage approval - I did! When I started looking I was a bit delusional about what kind of house I'd be able to afford. What I ended up buying is a good bit smaller and further from the city than what I intended to buy, you just need to be realistic about what you can afford. There are plenty of open viewings each weekend, go to those to get a feel for what you can afford. Track the houses you view to see what they actually sell for in the end. This is a long process though, but it helped me. It's true that there are some houses that seem to be constantly up for sale for increasing prices, but those are obviously not really for sale, it's probably just someone trying to please the banks.

Need4House

ted1 wrote: »

What index are you looking at?

All reports I see highlight The area as increasing they actual make the point. That it's the best performing area

How about you do a general internet search then on Irish property prices for south Dub...they are down..
Also I question who runs Daft, Myhome etc...im assuming its the EA's as the sites all have the ring of BS about them IMO.

josip

Need4House wrote: »

I dont even want to live here..its due to the kid being in school

"the kid"? Is it your kid? If it is, then when don't you say "my kid"?
If it's not your kid, then it's possible that some overly vigilant neighbour might report you to the gardai.

lima wrote: »

I completely understand how you feel, ... The country does not care one bit about the future generations. ... just do what you can to make as much money from the place, milk it dry, take as much as you can and use it to support your family. ....

empathy, then an inter-post contradiction, followed by an intra-post contradiction.

Need4House wrote: »

Well at least someone sees reality.

fails to spot inter-post contradiction.

There is no bubble. A bubble cannot arise without loose credit [McWilliams et al, 2004, 2005, ad infinitum, ad nauseum] At the moment, people with cash are prepared to pay the price being sought by the market.

D3PO

Need4House wrote: »

No market manipulation you say...
well explain why the same houses are up for over a year on the same sites...when you call they are always gone...always.

There is plenty of window dressing going on. There are houses for "sale" out there that really aren't for sale. Its no more than an exercise to keep the banks at bay for some people by "attempting to sell" their property

explain how that isnt manipulating the market.

This is nothing to do with manipulating the market. This is just some people fighting for self survival. I don't condone it but it doesn't manipulate the market.

They cant shift most of these houses in the 3-400 price range as people are not getting approved for mortgages past 200K.

That's a load of horsecrap. Plenty and I mean plenty of people are getting approved for far more than 200k. My brother just went sale agreed recently for well over 400k with a mortgage of 385k how did he manage that well he and his wife earn significantly more than the average joe, and most people buying in SCD fall into the same category.

The priority for any EA with a brain would be to get the market moving again by selling at reasonable, realistic and achievable prices..but if the same homes are up for over a year with fluctuating prices..it says it all...they are not shifting them.

EA's don't set the prices sellers do. As for not shifting houses your right but ask yourself are these houses really for sale ......

.

pwurple

Need4House wrote: »

Yes...but that isnt what Im talking about..Im talking about houses up at 220 one week..then a moth later same house up at 270 and then a couple of months later same house at 295..when all the while everytime you call about the house..its sold.

Having bought and sold in the last year I can tell you that a house I was sale agreed on fell through after our engineers report, and went on again a few months later with the issue resolved. We had bought elsewhere in that time. We were sale agreed 3 times on our own when we were selling it, it was relisted several times, due to people not getting their expected mortgage, or circumstances changing (buyer moving job area etc).

Not just that but you call a house at 270..for instance and the EA tells you they are getting offers at 300 and over...and once again two months later its still on the market at 270.

Sales can take several months to complete. I've heard up to a year. You'll see it in several threads here.

Bearing in mind...people are not getting mortgages ion most cases.

Got one myself. Brother got one. Several friends got one. Plenty of people get mortgages. They need to have solid savings records (ie a deposit) and permanent jobs. not just waltz into a bank with empty pockets and expect the earth moon and stars.

Also bearing in mind the index shows a continual drop in SALE prices.

Not in the area you are talking about.

Like I said all this is done to artificially manipulate the market.

I actually don't think EA's are sharp enough to even begin coordinate themselves and eachother in that way. Plus, how do you account for non EA sales?

There is no supernatural hand guiding all EA sales. Rent and prices go up when demand go up and supply is low.

Barely Hedged

Need4House wrote: »

This is what im talking about...why should a landlord expect anything other than breaking even at this point in time? Im not making 5%...I aint getting a wage increase, to meet your 5%. See basic understanding of BASIC economics, It's missing here isnt it. No common sense, just blind greed. If you want to make a profit, go and invest in a country that is currently on the up...it isn't Ireland..or does that really need to be rammed home to some people. You cant squeeze blood from a stone..but evidently the Irish landlords think they can, well if you squeeze a stone that hard you will get blood but it will be your own.

Why should a landlord not expect to make a profit? Is it not classified as a business in a similar way to other businesses that provide you with a service or a product in return for money? The service in this case being the roof over your head and maintenance of it.

Why should a person not invest in Ireland if they are taking a view on a long term investment, such as a property. Depressed market, government have sorted the finances and there a clear projections on a full recovery in country in the next 5-8 years. Why wouldnt you plant your cash somewhere that will give you a good return in 5-8 years?