Crazy allowances or perks

draiochtanois

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Princess Consuela Bananahammock

draiochtanois wrote: »

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Excuse the ignorance, but why is this a bad thing? I would have thought getting people into a better position to get a job would be a good thing - especially if they haven;t completeled secondary education?

DoesNotCompute

draiochtanois wrote: »

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That was only half an hour, not an hour, and it was scrapped years ago (Croke Park put an end to it, if I remember correctly)

Riskymove

draiochtanois wrote: »

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nope....never did anyway....30 mins

draiochtanois

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Sleepy

The term-time and job-sharing contracts that many Public Sector workers have are in no way efficient but I'm not sure if they'd quite count as "perks".

Pat Mustard

Unvouched expenses for Independent TDs, on top of existing salary.

€40,000 per year, I think. It is going to be cut to €37,500 if I heard correctly.

It's still untaxed and unvouched - no receipts required. They could put it into their back pockets.

I am not suggesting that we get rid of expenses for TDs for a minute. What I am saying is that allowing unvouched expenses is mad.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

The Mustard wrote: »

Unvouched expenses for Independent TDs, on top of existing salary.

€40,000 per year, I think. It is going to be cut to €37,500 if I heard correctly.

It's still untaxed and unvouched - no receipts required. They could put it into their back pockets.

I am not suggesting that we get rid of expenses for TDs for a minute. What I am saying is that allowing unvouched expenses is mad.

Untaxed is fair enough - it's not income.

draiochtanois

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chopper6

draiochtanois wrote: »

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No "we" don't.

And if you think an hour a month off is a big deal you really need to get out more often.

#****stirringthread

draiochtanois

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Stheno

The Mustard wrote: »

Unvouched expenses for Independent TDs, on top of existing salary.

€40,000 per year, I think. It is going to be cut to €37,500 if I heard correctly.

It's still untaxed and unvouched - no receipts required. They could put it into their back pockets.

I am not suggesting that we get rid of expenses for TDs for a minute. What I am saying is that allowing unvouched expenses is mad.

When it's cut it is being put under vouched expenses as part of the reform.
Was on Matt Cooper this evening

sarumite

chopper6 wrote: »

No "we" don't.

And if you think an hour a month off is a big deal you really need to get out more often.

#****stirringthread

Since it was one of the savings under the CPA, its really not worth talking about....however this completely misses the point.

Scortho

Do the lady soldiers in the army still get the nightdress allowance?

Nurses get a uniform allowance and as far as I remember a washing allowance for their uniform... Really felt like sending the mother a bill.

Just found this... The staff at Chester Beatty library get an allowance for making boxes!
http://per.gov.ie/review-of-public-sector-allowances-and-premium-payments-business-cases-submitted-for-review/

The best one though was the Greek civil servants going on strike because their allowance for using a computer was removed. The allowance...6 days annual leave.
Mightn't be a paper of record, but it is a link.
http://m.thestar.com/#!/world/redirect/dd688d01f9ce7656c5f658a9369ef74f


While the private sector does have allowances, it is nowhere near as bad as the allowances in the public sector.
The last place I worked in gave zero allowances, zero bonuses but good core pay.
Which is probably the way the public sector should be done instead.
Wasn't there an allowance for teachers who had a degree? Yet to be a teacher you had to go to college to get a degree?

woodoo

The great scandal in the public service currently is travel and subsistence.

Gumbo

draiochtanois wrote: »

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Cheques are cashed in banks. Banks = private sector.
Don't think the PS do 35 hours anymore, more like the standard 35-39 excluding lunches.


My brother works for a large MNC. He travels around for work. They pay him over night stays etc if he is working outside of Dublin. When he has work in Meath, Wicklow or any other surrounding county he gets 127e and that's meant to pay for a room for the night and an evening meal. He just pockets it and drives down a bit earlier in the morning.

My mate works for a drinks company. They get an internal wallet that allows them free drink every month. He comes home with trays or orange, monster, mi-wadi every week!

Don't hear too much about perks anymore as people are afraid to openly talk about them with the way spitefullness has gone in our country since the recession hit.

Scortho

Bigger question?
Who still gets paid by cheque? :eek:

Gumbo

Scortho wrote: »

Bigger question?
Who still gets paid by cheque? :eek:

One or 2 of my mates do at the moment. It's quite uncommon though. I haven't got paid by cheque in over 10 years!

Scortho

kceire wrote: »

One or 2 of my mates do at the moment. It's quite uncommon though. I haven't got paid by cheque in over 10 years!

Should have clarified I was on about the public sector.

Thered be a few small private sector companies doing it Id say, but I know I certainly wouldnt be happy getting paid by cheque

kupus

chopper6 wrote: »

No "we" don't.

And if you think an hour a month off is a big deal you really need to get out more often.

#****stirringthread

It is when you have 100,000 plus people taking that time off

= let me get the maths straight on this....100,000 thousand hours of work a month
x
12 months

= a shedload of money....

However its not the money thats my concern

Its what the hell are they doing with this time thats the problem and how in all fairness is the civil service such an inefficient mess.

thats my problem.

Gumbo

kupus wrote: »

It is when you have 100,000 plus people taking that time off

= let me get the maths straight on this....100,000 thousand hours of work a month
x
12 months

= a shedload of money....

However its not the money thats my concern

Its what the hell are they doing with this time thats the problem and how in all fairness is the civil service such an inefficient mess.

thats my problem.

Put away your calculator and put your common sense hat back on. It doesn't happen anymore and hasn't happened in years so get over it.

Scortho

kceire wrote: »

Put away your calculator and put your common sense hat back on. It doesn't happen anymore and hasn't happened in years so get over it.

Kceire with all due respect it was response to a poster who said an hour off every month was no big deal.

While it might have been eradicated in the last few years, that prevailing attitude of some members of the ps is a big deal.
While there are many good workers in the ps, it does have its fair share of useless employees.

Personally I'd rather a system where the whiffwaff get cut and the good employees get paid well based on their ability and not how many years service they have. Similar to the private sector.

Gumbo

Scortho wrote: »

Kceire with all due respect it was response to a poster who said an hour off every month was no big deal.

While it might have been eradicated in the last few years, that prevailing attitude of some members of the ps is a big deal.
While there are many good workers in the ps, it does have its fair share of useless employees.

Personally I'd rather a system where the whiffwaff get cut and the good employees get paid well based on their ability and not how many years service they have. Similar to the private sector.

Yes but the poster asked what was PS staff doing with this time in the present tense. He is obviously not aware that it doesn't occur anymore and where it did, it was only for a small selection of civil servants, not the wider public service.

Pat Mustard

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Untaxed is fair enough - it's not income.

Sorry, I didn't put that well. I didn't mean that it should be taxed. I meant that as it was unvouched, if it was not spent, the potential was there for it to be pocketed. The net effect would be a maximum of about €41,000 tax free (original €40k figure slightly out as well.)

draiochtanois wrote: »

Do you have a reference for this?

This is all I have at the moment. Starts about 9.00 minutes in. Matt Cooper interviewing Catherine Halloran of the Irish Daily Star (and Finian McGrath, TD).

They say Bertie introduced this in 2007.

Stheno wrote: »

When it's cut it is being put under vouched expenses as part of the reform.
Was on Matt Cooper this evening

You are right. I wasn't paying close enough attention as I was driving. They are planning to make them vouch it now.

sarumite

kceire wrote: »

My brother works for a large MNC. He travels around for work. They pay him over night stays etc if he is working outside of Dublin. When he has work in Meath, Wicklow or any other surrounding county he gets 127e and that's meant to pay for a room for the night and an evening meal. He just pockets it and drives down a bit earlier in the morning.

This actually quite common in both the PS and private sector. Its hardly a perk though considering the employer is asking you to go out of your way to travel. Although its highly unusual to be given a room the day before an event if you are within commutable distance. It makes perfect sense if a person has to fly somewhere that they do it the day before if the event is starting early in the morning. Personally I have received a daily allowance working in both sectors and see it as much as a nuisance allowance as anything else. When I think about the fact that I am stuck in a hotel in a city where I don't know anyone and I have probably travelled on behalf of my employer on my own free time, the very least they could do is provide a hotel room and hot meal.

Michael D Not Higgins

One that I heard from Irish Rail was that some drivers still get an hour's pay for starting up the fire for a steam engine even though they're all diesel.

spank_inferno

Is there still a day off for the Kings birthday?

(if this has been rolled into the annual leave allowance then yes it is still in place.... Its just not on whenever that kings birthday was.)

Idbatterim

My brother works for a large MNC. He travels around for work. They pay him over night stays etc if he is working outside of Dublin. When he has work in Meath, Wicklow or any other surrounding county he gets 127e and that's meant to pay for a room for the night and an evening meal. He just pockets it and drives down a bit earlier in the morning.

My mate works for a drinks company. They get an internal wallet that allows them free drink every month. He comes home with trays or orange, monster, mi-wadi every week!

Don't hear too much about perks anymore as people are afraid to openly talk about them with the way spitefullness has gone in our country since the recession hit.

This comparison with the private sector is ridiculous, if a private sector company withdraw all their cash and burn it to the ground I couldnt give a toss, if there is waste in the PS its a totally different kettle of fish... Because it could be used to reduce the deficit, invest in jobs, bla bla bla...

hidinginthebush

sarumite wrote: »

This actually quite common in both the PS and private sector. Its hardly a perk though considering the employer is asking you to go out of your way to travel. Although its highly unusual to be given a room the day before an event if you are within commutable distance. It makes perfect sense if a person has to fly somewhere that they do it the day before if the event is starting early in the morning. Personally I have received a daily allowance working in both sectors and see it as much as a nuisance allowance as anything else. When I think about the fact that I am stuck in a hotel in a city where I don't know anyone and I have probably travelled on behalf of my employer on my own free time, the very least they could do is provide a hotel room and hot meal.

I'd agree with this. I work for in the private sector and had to go to a training course down in Cork, usually based in Dub. I chose to drive down, planning to claim the mileage expense. To be fair though, it involved getting up at the crack of dawn, driving down there for 3 hours, 3 back again after the course. I was absolutely smashed. Sure you get a few bob for it, but when you consider that you're essentially working 6 hours overtime, and have to cover the cost of petrol, tolls, and the physical tiredness, the money just about covers the effort.

mathepac

There used to be a crowd of PS fork-lift drivers who got paid a special allowance - for driving fork-lifts. Go figure.

From last year.

Geuze

draiochtanois wrote: »

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This may help:
http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/tdssenators/parliamentarystandardallowance/

draiochtanois

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Godge

Great, it has been a while since we have had a thread designed to bash public servants using lies and half-truths.

draiochtanois wrote: »

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No. in fact this has been gone a long time. It was abolished for new entrants 10-15 years ago at least. It only applied to some civil servants and not to public servants. I think it was actually abolished under T2016 before Croke Park so why is it being brought up now?

The Mustard wrote: »

Unvouched expenses for Independent TDs, on top of existing salary.

€40,000 per year, I think. It is going to be cut to €37,500 if I heard correctly.

It's still untaxed and unvouched - no receipts required. They could put it into their back pockets.

I am not suggesting that we get rid of expenses for TDs for a minute. What I am saying is that allowing unvouched expenses is mad.

Absolutely, I agree, unvouched expenses are mad.

draiochtanois wrote: »

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You maths is way off and only provides an excuse for the rant in your last sentence. Some perspective. All public servants work a minimum 35 hours net i.e. excluding lunch. All new public servants work a minimum 37 hours net.

Many private sector hours are gross including lunch.

Once you go above the lower levels, you will find that public servants are putting in much more than 40 hours.

kceire wrote: »

My brother works for a large MNC. He travels around for work. They pay him over night stays etc if he is working outside of Dublin. When he has work in Meath, Wicklow or any other surrounding county he gets 127e and that's meant to pay for a room for the night and an evening meal. He just pockets it and drives down a bit earlier in the morning.

My mate works for a drinks company. They get an internal wallet that allows them free drink every month. He comes home with trays or orange, monster, mi-wadi every week!

Don't hear too much about perks anymore as people are afraid to openly talk about them with the way spitefullness has gone in our country since the recession hit.

In the public sector, expenses are monitored and vouched and you would not get away with driving down a bit earlier in the morning and pocketing the 127 euro.

Idbatterim wrote: »

This comparison with the private sector is ridiculous, if a private sector company withdraw all their cash and burn it to the ground I couldnt give a toss, if there is waste in the PS its a totally different kettle of fish... Because it could be used to reduce the deficit, invest in jobs, bla bla bla...

Actually, the private sector is relevant. In the cases mentioned by kceire, there are issues.

If his brother drives down early in the morning and pockets the overnight expense, it is not an expense, it is income and should therefore be taxed. The practice of the private company in allowing this is tax evasion and has an effect on the deficit.

Similarly, bringing home bottles of orange is BIK and should be taxed.

So, yes, gaming the system in the private sector to avoid paying income tax is something we should be concerned about.

Scortho wrote: »

Bigger question?
Who still gets paid by cheque? :eek:

The public sector hasn't paid by cheque for years, am aware of a number of small businesses that still pay by cheque.

Gloomtastic!

In my kids' primary school, the assistant principal has only worked two in the last six years. Off on maternity leave, on full pay (teachers are treated differently to everyone else I believe), with all her allowances still being paid.

Godge

draiochtanois wrote: »

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Over the years there have been multiple ways of entering teaching, some requiring degrees, some not, some requiring the HDip e.g. for example in a VEC a HDip wasn't required to teach in a VEC secondary school until about 5 years ago.

All of this is now subject to regulation by the Teaching Council. A visit to their website would enlighten you on what is necessary.

chopper6

kupus wrote: »

It is when you have 100,000 plus people taking that time off

= let me get the maths straight on this....100,000 thousand hours of work a month
x
12 months

= a shedload of money....

However its not the money thats my concern

Its what the hell are they doing with this time thats the problem and how in all fairness is the civil service such an inefficient mess.

thats my problem.

Your "concern" is unfounded.

As has been repeatedly poinetd out in this thread that "perk" has been long discontinued.

And the civil service is a mess is it?

How do you figure that out exactly?

Godge

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

In my kids' primary school, the assistant principal has only worked two in the last six years. Off on maternity leave, on full pay (teachers are treated differently to everyone else I believe), with all her allowances still being paid.

Instead of making allegations about benefits accruing to teachers, maybe you could provide a link to back this up.

AFAIK, any perks from linking the holidays to dates of birth were removed earlier this year.

http://www.education.ie/en/Circulars-and-Forms/Active-Circulars/cl0009_2013.pdf

sarumite

Godge wrote: »

In the public sector, expenses are monitored and vouched and you would not get away with driving down a bit earlier in the morning and pocketing the 127 euro.

This is not entirely true. For example UCD has the following in terms of expenses

" Staff may claim the actual costs incurred (provided the claim is supported by invoices/receipts) or a per diem rate based on the country/city visited."

srsly78

Everyone can use the approved per-diem rates pretty much, also self-employed people: http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/leaflets/it54.html (see appendix I).

There is also a list of approved overseas per-diem rates. It's e180 for an overnight in London.

everdead.ie

Godge wrote: »

Many private sector hours are gross including lunch.

I have never seen the above in any sector public nor private working hours are "working".

Godge wrote: »

Once you go above the lower levels, you will find that public servants are putting in much more than 40 hours.

The amount of hours worked depends completely on the person I know public servants who work 45-50 hrs a week at the bottom rung while some of their peers and seniors work the minimum hours no matter what. It completely depends on the person.

Godge

everdead.ie wrote: »

I have never seen the above in any sector public nor private working hours are "working".

I have sat in private sector canteens at lunchtime listening to people on a paid lunchbreak who are working 9-5 Monday to Friday claiming that they are working 40 hours while public servants are only working 33, 34, 35 hours.

draiochtanois

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sarumite

Godge wrote: »

I have sat in private sector canteens at lunchtime listening to people on a paid lunchbreak who are working 9-5 Monday to Friday claiming that they are working 40 hours while public servants are only working 33, 34, 35 hours.

I can honestly say I am more than a little surprised. I have never ever heard of such an instance, either from my time working in public orprivate sector. During my brief stint of unemployment I was going to a lot of interviews for different companies, all of whom had working hours exclusive of lunch.

Jawgap

sarumite wrote: »

This actually quite common in both the PS and private sector. Its hardly a perk though considering the employer is asking you to go out of your way to travel. Although its highly unusual to be given a room the day before an event if you are within commutable distance. It makes perfect sense if a person has to fly somewhere that they do it the day before if the event is starting early in the morning. Personally I have received a daily allowance working in both sectors and see it as much as a nuisance allowance as anything else. When I think about the fact that I am stuck in a hotel in a city where I don't know anyone and I have probably travelled on behalf of my employer on my own free time, the very least they could do is provide a hotel room and hot meal.

It's not common in the PS and to claim an overnight without actually staying overnight. This is a fairly serious contravention of the disciplinary code - likewise staying overnight with a relative but claiming to have stayed in a hotel, or sleeping in the car / van (it's happened) is similarly a no-no. You can be asked to produce evidence that you stayed and paid somewhere.

everdead.ie wrote: »

I have never seen the above in any sector public nor private working hours are "working".

The amount of hours worked depends completely on the person I know public servants who work 45-50 hrs a week at the bottom rung while some of their peers and seniors work the minimum hours no matter what. It completely depends on the person.

I'm fairly senior in the PS and up until the HRA my average working week was 43+ hours, that was net of lunches and travelling before 7am and after 7pm, work carried out at home and work undertaken at weekends. We're also automatically deducted 30 mins for lunch whether we take a break or not - obviously you have to key out for longer lunch breaks.

Since HRA I've made a point of not working one minute beyond the 37 hours they seemed to be so fixated on - as they say, be careful what you wish for, you may just get it. I've also (as of this month) moved on to working 4 days per week to allow me to pursue other opportunities.

everdead.ie

Godge wrote: »

I have sat in private sector canteens at lunchtime listening to people on a paid lunchbreak who are working 9-5 Monday to Friday claiming that they are working 40 hours while public servants are only working 33, 34, 35 hours.

That is exceedingly abnormal I have never seen it before fair enough if the company can afford it but it is very very unusual and something I'm sure the 99% of business don't practice.

Scofflaw

As has been requested, let's have rather fewer of the hoary old chestnuts being repeated without backing. If you can't substantiate your claimed "crazy allowance or perk", don't post it. The Public Sector Review is a good source, as is the PDF version. If it isn't in one of those, you'll need to provide an official and recent source to show the claimed perk is still in existence - posting claims of perks without such substantiation will be penalised.

moderately,
Scofflaw

Gumbo

Jawgap wrote: »

It's not common in the PS and to claim an overnight without actually staying overnight. This is a fairly serious contravention of the disciplinary code - likewise staying overnight with a relative but claiming to have stayed in a hotel, or sleeping in the car / van (it's happened) is similarly a no-no. You can be asked to produce evidence that you stayed and paid somewhere.

+1

In my PS Dept. the hotel is booked centrally and paid for, so if we dont use it, we dont benefit from it.

Maura74

In UK the public sector wages and expenses are on councils website together with any spend over £500 pounds, (I feel that every penny should be accounted for and should be published. Hopefully councils will comply soon due to it been public money therefore every penny should be account for. The only problem they have not got around to itemising all their spending as it is all lumped in the same pot). They have got around to making wards in the borough why not published what is spent in each ward.

Also now some UK councils they have a website for suggestions from their employees ie public that pays their salaries.

Not sure if it is like this in Ireland.

chopper6

everdead.ie wrote: »

That is exceedingly abnormal I have never seen it before fair enough if the company can afford it but it is very very unusual and something I'm sure the 99% of business don't practice.

You're not sure and you have pulled this figure out of thin air.

How many businesses "close for lunch"?

creedp

everdead.ie wrote: »

That is exceedingly abnormal I have never seen it before fair enough if the company can afford it but it is very very unusual and something I'm sure the 99% of business don't practice.

So a 9 - 5 job in the private sector is a 35 hour week and not a 40 hour week as oft claimed

chopper6

creedp wrote: »

So a 9 - 5 job in the private sector is a 35 hour week and not a 40 hour week as oft claimed

AND despite claims to the contrary is also subject to the same illness,maternity and holiday benefits as the public sector.