Disciplining kids and the law

Hickeyabc

Just had a chat with a friend! He told me off a man he knew who was in trouble with the Guards for smacking his son with his belt. Apparently the kid is in his teens and has been completely out of control for the last year! The kid reported the dad. I don't think the dad makes a habit of using his belt and it was a last resort from being at his wits end with his sons behaviour. Now this guy is

Hickeyabc

Hickeyabc wrote: »

Just had a chat with a friend! He told me off a man he knew who was in trouble with the Guards for smacking his son with his belt. Apparently the kid is in his teens and has been completely out of control for the last year! The kid reported the dad. I don't think the dad makes a habit of using his belt and it was a last resort from being at his wits end with his sons behaviour. Now this guy is

Sorry posted too soon! Anyway the just of it is this father is now in by trouble! I'm not sure if this is fair! I know what he did is extreme but I don't think the law should be called in! What's the consensus?

Tin Foil Hat

This is pretty straightforward. You don't get to assault another human with a belt.

Days 298

Don't beat kids.

Fr_Dougal

Don't get caught beating teens.

Also, your 'friend' needs to take out his belt again to that little rat, nobody likes a squeeler.



yes, I'm being sarcastic

Hickeyabc

Tin Foil Hat wrote: »

This is pretty straightforward. You don't get to assault another human with a belt.

I don't know if it's as straight forward as that. From all accounts this man has had a lot to put up with from his son. There was a time when a few whacks of the belt on the arse was the order of the day and it wasn't that long ago! I don't think its reasonable that this man is being treated as a criminal

Howard Juneau

If the teen is out of control & the father is at his wits end, then it's time to get help.
If not the relationship will deteriorate beyond repair pdq

Czarcasm

Hickeyabc wrote: »

Sorry posted too soon! Anyway the just of it is this father is now in by trouble! I'm not sure if this is fair! I know what he did is extreme but I don't think the law should be called in! What's the consensus?

Answered your own question there OP tbh. It's perfectly fair IMO that a person would be charged for assault for using disproportionate force on another person.

DEFTLEFTHAND

My mother bet us heavily ( belt strap and wooden spoon), me and my brother she never touched our sister. This was in the early to mid late 90s. Our father never did anything to us.

It's a way of disciplining children sure as long as it doesn't verge off to the extreme and become too frequent.

In our case it probably did, she wasn't able to handle two rambunctious boys and resorted to violence.

I grew up fearing the wooden spoon. It has done me no harm and actually probably worked for the better.

ElleEm

The man assaulted a teenager with a weapon. Fair play to the son for reporting it. Being at your "wits end" does not give an excuse to physically assault a human being.

hfallada

If you think the only way to discipline your teenage son is with a belt. Then you probably shouldn't have a child. There is dozens of non physical ways to discipline. Beating the **** out of your child is just going to cause long term problems.

Hickeyabc

Right or wrong or agree or disagree this guy should not be hauled through the courts!

ElleEm

Hickeyabc wrote: »

Right or wrong or agree or disagree this guy should not be hauled through the courts!

Why not?

Donnielighto

Anyone suggest a way to discipline teens?

Legs.Eleven

You'd be in trouble for hitting a stranger with a belt (can you even imagine someone doing that to a stranger?) so surely it's even more serious when it's someone you're supposed to protect and love? The son is a teenager, not a grown man don't forget.

Hopefully this will give other parents a scare and make them realise they can't go around beating the ****e out of their kids. The father broke the law and in my opinion, he should at least get a warning for it.

There are other ways to discipline your kids. Speaking from experience here, I know it doesn't work. It's barbaric and uncivilised.

somuj

obviously didnt beat him hard enough. Old testament all the way. We're animals. Nothing wrong with using force to set an example. This P.C. society is going to far Wontcve allowed shout at our kids in a decade.

Hickeyabc

hfallada wrote: »

If you think the only way to discipline your teenage son is with a belt. Then you probably shouldn't have a child. There is dozens of non physical ways to discipline. Beating the **** out of your child is just going to cause long term problems.

We don't actually know that this dad actually beat the **** out of the boy just that he used a belt! It might not be as extreme as people might want to think.

Tin Foil Hat

Hickeyabc wrote: »

Right or wrong or agree or disagree this guy should not be hauled through the courts!

Of course he should. What part of the concept of 'assault' are you struggling to understand?

efb

Hickeyabc wrote: »

Right or wrong or agree or disagree this guy should not be hauled through the courts!

He should be! You cant call hitting someone with a belt reasonable chastisement

ElleEm

Donnielighto wrote: »

Anyone suggest a way to discipline teens?

Grounding them, removing luxury items, limiting time on the computer/ tv/ games, not allowing them to do activities, chores, etc.
Rewards can prevent negative behaviour too.
Disciplining teens requires creativity and innovation. Physically assaulting them is stupid and lazy.

Cantona's Collars

Just go through the amount of threads that appear here involving out of control teens,how many of them would avoid acting the bollix if they new the punishment that would follow.They have lost the sense of fear and don't really care any more.
As the op said,the father was at his wits end.When I was growing up.I knew that if I acted the maggot I got a few slaps.Did me no harm.

Even now,I see the contrast between 2 of my neighbours kids,one acts upon his threats of punishment (not physical) and as a result,the kid knows not to cross the line.
The other threatens his kid but never acts upon it & even at a young age you can see the beginnings of a little bollix who knows he'll get away with murder.

somuj

Hickeyabc wrote: »

We don't actually know that this dad actually beat the **** out of the boy just that he used a belt! It might not be as extreme as people might want to think.

You seem very worried about your husband.

Hickeyabc

Donnielighto wrote: »

Anyone suggest a way to discipline teens?

This is a fair statement. You have a teen who is in constant trouble with the law. Making an ass of himself! Annoying elderly people! Thieving! Smoking! Drinking etc. your concerned for his safety and well being and don't want him locked up for his antics.
What are you supposed to do?
I don't think taking away the Xbox is gonna have the necessary effect!
I just don't think this dad should be vilified for what he did that's all I'm saying

Legs.Eleven

ElleEm wrote: »

Grounding them, removing luxury items, limiting time on the computer/ tv/ games, not allowing them to do activities, chores, etc.
Rewards can prevent negative behaviour too.
Disciplining teens requires creativity and innovation. Physically assaulting them is stupid and lazy.

...and doesn't work.

DEFTLEFTHAND

somuj wrote: »

obviously didnt beat him hard enough. Old testament all the way. We're animals. Nothing wrong with using force to set an example. This P.C. society is going to far Wontcve allowed shout at our kids in a decade.

Beatings only create resentment though imo. Force wins out 99% of the time but is that really an example to give to your children. You could emotionally cripple them, not everyone is tough enough to brave it.

Also at an early age they're learning that the threat or action of violence achieves results.

Legs.Eleven

Hickeyabc wrote: »

This is a fair statement. You have a teen who is in constant trouble with the law. Making an ass of himself! Annoying elderly people! Thieving! Smoking! Drinking etc. your concerned for his safety and well being and don't want him locked up for his antics.
What are you supposed to do?
I don't think taking away the Xbox is gonna have the necessary effect!
I just don't think this dad should be vilified for what he did that's all I'm saying

He broke the law. It was assault.


Do you REALLY think hitting a child will work? How exactly?


My brother was out of control growing up and was beaten as punishment. My brother carried on as he always did but they ended up not speaking for about 8 years. Was the necessary effect achieved there do you think?

ElleEm

Hickeyabc wrote: »

This is a fair statement. You have a teen who is in constant trouble with the law. Making an ass of himself! Annoying elderly people! Thieving! Smoking! Drinking etc. your concerned for his safety and well being and don't want him locked up for his antics.
What are you supposed to do?
I don't think taking away the Xbox is gonna have the necessary effect!
I just don't think this dad should be vilified for what he did that's all I'm saying

Concerned for his safety yet uses a weapon to assault him? It seems like the parent has lost control of the kid, and got angry.
There are many MANY alternative ways to discipline a teenager. Yes, they can be more defiant and less compliant than a younger child, but a parent's job is to teach and lead by example. The parent should be committed to learning better ways of mamaging his kid's behaviour. There are many books and courses on the subject. The local Family Centre or Barnardos could help them, as they are clearly struggling.

mackeire

hfallada wrote: »

If you think the only way to discipline your teenage son is with a belt. Then you probably shouldn't have a child. There is dozens of non physical ways to discipline. Beating the **** out of your child is just going to cause long term problems.

You obviously didn't read the op. You must be part of the PC brigade.
Where did the op mention beating the **** out of the child?
And using the belt was a last resort for an out of control teenager, not the only way as you put it!

The One Who Knocks

Hickeyabc wrote: »

You have a teen who is in constant trouble with the law. Making an ass of himself! Annoying elderly people! Thieving! Smoking! Drinking etc

You seem to know an awful lot about your friend's friend's son's behaviour. :P

Legs.Eleven

mackeire wrote: »

You obviously didn't read the op. You must be part of the PC brigade.
Where did the op mention beating the **** out of the child?
And using the belt was a last resort for an out of control teenager, not the only way as you put it!

You didn't just say "PC Brigade" ffs, did you?

Jiggers77

My father used his belt on me quite a lot when I was growing up in the 70/80's and I have to say it taught me a lesson! It never did me any harm and I don't feel I was abused in any way! I had a great relationship with him then and still do today!

Haven't said that however the belt isn't something I would use on my kids today! I would definetly be disciplining by non physical means! I don't think this man should be criminalised though!

mackeire

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

You didn't just say "PC Brigade" ffs, did you?

Yes I did

Legs.Eleven

Jiggers77 wrote: »

My father used his belt on me quite a lot when I was growing up in the 70/80's and I have to say it taught me a lesson! It never did me any harm and I don't feel I was abused in any way! I had a great relationship with him then and still do today!

Haven't said that however the belt isn't something I would use on my kids today! I would definetly be disciplining by non physical means! I don't think this man should be criminalised though!

Why would you do the same to your own kids if it didn't do you any harm? You're not really making any point here and have just contradicted yourself.

The man broke a law so of course he should have to deal with the consequences otherwise what's the point of having the law in the first place?

Legs.Eleven

mackeire wrote: »

Yes I did

You've lost the argument when you come out with stupid lines like that. It's meaningless.

ElleEm

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

You didn't just say "PC Brigade" ffs, did you?

Apparently ' PC Brigade'now covers people who think assaulting children is wrong.

So to those of you who think the OP is right, would you be happy if a neighbour/ Garda/ person on the street assaulted your kid with a weapon cos they didn't like their behaviour?

Hickeyabc

Jamez735 wrote: »

You seem to know an awful lot about your friend's friend's son's behaviour. :P

Well my mate did fill me in on all the details!!!!!!!!!!

mackeire

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

You've lost the argument when you come out with stupid lines like that. It's meaningless.

Ok then, you win.
Didn't realise that you and me were arguing!
But you win just because you said so.

Czarcasm

Hickeyabc wrote: »

This is a fair statement. You have a teen who is in constant trouble with the law. Making an ass of himself! Annoying elderly people! Thieving! Smoking! Drinking etc. your concerned for his safety and well being and don't want him locked up for his antics.
What are you supposed to do?
I don't think taking away the Xbox is gonna have the necessary effect!
I just don't think this dad should be vilified for what he did that's all I'm saying

Why didn't the father report any of the above to the Gardai then? Especially if he was thieving, and drinking and smoking under the legal age limit? The father should've sought support long before his son's behaviour had gotten to the level where his son no longer respected his authority as his parent.

mackeire

ElleEm wrote: »

Apparently ' PC Brigade'now covers people who think assaulting children is wrong.

So to those of you who think the OP is right, would you be happy if a neighbour/ Garda/ person on the street assaulted your kid with a weapon cos they didn't like their behaviour?

You are talking ****e my friend. And you are bringing this discussion off topic.

Howard Juneau

ElleEm wrote: »

Grounding them, removing luxury items, limiting time on the computer/ tv/ games, not allowing them to do activities, chores, etc.
Rewards can prevent negative behaviour too.
Disciplining teens requires creativity and innovation. Physically assaulting them is stupid and lazy.

How do you enforce it.
Teen says no, fck off & leaves.
What do you do then?

AtomicHorror

Hickeyabc wrote: »

There was a time when a few whacks of the belt on the arse was the order of the day and it wasn't that long ago!

It was about 50 years ago you ****ing dinosaur.

Jiggers77

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

Why would you do the same to your own kids if it didn't do you any harm? You're not really making any point here and have just contradicted yourself.

The man broke a law so of course he should be criminalised.

My point is that years ago you might a gotta whack because the parent didn't know any better! These days there's a bit more support and more non physical means of discilpline which thankfully the majority of parents are using and I would imagine this guy referenced in the original post had tried before using his belt!

Look what he did was wrong by today's standards but I wouldn't want him locked up for it! The guy probably needs a bit of guidance and support!

I did not contradict myself at all. I don't believe in belting kids and I would never do it but it was done to me and it didn't turn me into a dysfunctional adult that's all I wanted to say

Cantona's Collars

I get the feeling that some people here feel that real life is like some kind of American soap where teens sit around & talk about their feelings & go to therapy at the drop of a hat.
Have you ever tried to have a sensible conversation with a teen? It's nigh on impossible with 90% of them.
I could only imagine how some of you would cope with some of the scrotes that roam the streets of every town in this country.At best you'd be told to fuck off,at worst you'd get a kicking.

I personally know teens in this town who's parents are dirtbags & never thought them respect let alone punishment,the result is that the kids are scumbags aswell.When you hear a guy teaching a child to say "fuck the guards" then you know what kind of teen will be the result.
I'm not condoning beating 7 shades out of kids but sometimes a slap or 2 is needed.

ElleEm

mackeire wrote: »

You are talking ****e my friend. And you are bringing this discussion off topic.

I think you will find I am not.
The OP wanted a discussion on whether his 'friend's friend' should be prosecuted for assaulting his child. Some people seem to think assaulting kids is okay, I am merely asking those people would they still think it's okay if their child was assaulted by someone else for the same reasons.

Legs.Eleven

Howard Juneau wrote: »

How do you enforce it.
Teen says no, fck off & leaves.
What do you do then?

And hitting them works how exactly? Can you answer that question? You hit them, they do it again. You think the son will suddenly turn into a model child after getting a whack with a belt? Ehhh....

Legs.Eleven

zerks wrote: »

I get the feeling that some people here feel that real life is like some kind of American soap where teens sit around & talk about their feelings & go to therapy at the drop of a hat.
Have you ever tried to have a sensible conversation with a teen? It's nigh on impossible with 90% of them.
I could only imagine how some of you would cope with some of the scrotes that roam the streets of every town in this country.At best you'd be told to fuck off,at worst you'd get a kicking.

I personally know teens in this town who's parents are dirtbags & never thought them respect let alone punishment,the result is that the kids are scumbags aswell.When you hear a guy teaching a child to say "fuck the guards" then you know what kind of teen will be the result.
I'm not condoning beating 7 shades out of kids but sometimes a slap or 2 is needed.

...but it doesn't work.

vitani

zerks wrote: »

I personally know teens in this town who's parents are dirtbags & never thought them respect let alone punishment,the result is that the kids are scumbags aswell.When you hear a guy teaching a child to say "fuck the guards" then you know what kind of teen will be the result.
I'm not condoning beating 7 shades out of kids but sometimes a slap or 2 is needed.

So if a parent refuses to parent a kid properly until a point where they're out of control, it's ok for that same parent to then turn around and beat them?

Jiggers77

vitani wrote: »

So if a parent refuses to parent a kid properly until a point where they're out of control, it's ok for that same parent to then turn around and beat the crap out of them?

Theres a lot of factors that can lead to a kid becoming out of control other than poor parenting. Eg environment, peer pressure, personality etc. I don't think its fair to say this guy didn't parent his son properly to the point that he became out of control

AtomicHorror

ElleEm wrote: »

I think you will find I am not.
The OP wanted a discussion on whether his 'friend's friend' should be prosecuted for assaulting his child. Some people seem to think assaulting kids is okay, I am merely asking those people would they still think it's okay if their child was assaulted by someone else for the same reasons.

Good point. OPs logic assumes that parents have some special legal privilege to assault their offspring.

Doctor DooM

Just for those who will post "my parents hit me, look how I turned out":

My parents never hit me, and especially would not have even thought of it as a teeanger. I have a healthy respect for them and I've never been in any form of trouble, legal or otherwise. As much as I love them I don't think they're superhuman, so why did I turn out ok?