Husband engaging in risky behaviour

Rosy Posy

I'd like to preface this by saying that my OH is generally a wonderful husband and father. He's extremely kind, patient and generous with me and the kids and in general we have a great relationship. We have three small children and one on the way and he is the sole income provider.

My issue is that he is insisting on indulging in risky behaviour. For some reason this is something that comes up around the birth of a new baby, and I believe it's not uncommon in new fathers. Just before the birth of our last child he sustained a stupid drunken injury that led to him having to take five weeks (unpaid- he's on contract) off work. He has also recently had an injury (not related to his behaviour) that caused him to be hospitalised and has left him with temporarily reduced mobility and needing to take it easy.

One example is that while on holiday in a place where mopeds are a popular form of transport, he wants to rent one for a day. The idea doesn't thrill me but I will acquiesce, my only issue is that I would like him to wear a helmet. Now the speed limit is 50kmph on the island and most people aren't wearing helmets, and he also has a good bit of experience on bikes. But still the thought of him going around with the potential to have his head crushed like a watermelon terrifies me. Also I'm concerned about the example shown to our eldest son. He's only six but he idolises his Dad. We've seen people on mopeds without helmets and discussed how stupid they're being. We live in a culture where tweens and teens often ride quads and dirt bikes, and while this is something I'll do my best to limit, I know that in the future he will probably be exposed to them and I'd like the idea of him wearing a helmet to be ironclad. My OH is in his thirties ffs, these very valid reasons should outweigh the desire not to look like a gimp (in his perception) in the eyes of strangers. He also wanted to ride the bike with music on his headphones which to me seems to show a flagrant disregard for basic safety. When I pointed this out I was branded a 'fun killer'.

Another example is that a friend of his found some magic mushrooms and they wanted to go off somewhere and take them. Now the pair of us did our fair share of recreational drugs in the past (pre kids) and I don't have a problem in principal, as long as the kids are not exposed to him in that state, and at this stage in our life it's something that wouldn't even be an annual event. But they're wanting to go somewhere way out in the wilderness, outside of phone reception, and the man has limited mobility (I can walk far further and faster than him atm and I'm five months pregnant) and the potential to set back his health further by overdoing things. He also discussed going early in the morning and driving back that night (part of the way on a dirt track with a river ford) with his mate, who is a chronic weed smoker, driving. Once again I'm not in love with the plan but if he must do it I'd like him to stay in phone reception and camp overnight and have a big breakfast and several cups of coffee in the morning before they drive anywhere.

When I outline my concerns he turns into a petulant teenager with a 'you're not the boss of me' attitude. He thinks that I worry unnecessarily (I actually think that for a mother I'm on the chilled end of the spectrum) and that I'm being an unreasonable nag. He says it's his right to have space to do what he wants since I had some time on holiday to go to a market or get a massage; and that I've gone hiking off the grid with friends before (we brought two bottles of wine between three of us and I was at peak health). I don't have a problem with him having space to unwind apart from the family, I just wish he'd exercise a reasonable degree of caution. I find it very difficult to discuss this with him as he just shuts down. In general I tend to be more articulate and better at arguing than him so his tactic is to not engage me and instead do what he wants anyway. I am trying very hard not to fall into the role of the nagging wife and I'm also trying to be reasonable and meet him halfway. He doesn't seem to see that his actions and their consequences effect the whole family and therefore he should consider his responsibilities when making these decisions. I get the feeling that it's an escape from these very responsibilities that he's seeking when he engages in this behaviour so what I'm really asking for is a way to get through to him that it's ok to blow off steam as long as he stays within the realms of basic safety.

Sorry for the long post, and also apologies if it takes a while to get back- we have erratic wifi atm. Thanks!

Mayboy

Sorry but I don't understand the 'wonderful' bit, objectively speaking he uses drugs, drives around with no helmet on, puts your only revenue stream at risk and then goes mad when you bring up the (pretty simple) reality of the situation, Don't get me wrong I'm not having a go at you but interested as to how you think this is wonderful?

ElleEm

I would certainly agree with you OP, in that your husband is not being very responsible with his behaviour.

He obviously still wants to live his life in the care- free way he did when he did not have responsibilities or a family who rely on him.

The big problem here is the fact that he seems to be unwilling to acknowledge your concerns. From what you are writing, you are very supportive in him living his life and having fun, but you want him to compromise and include some additional safety to his behaviour. You need to speak to him about this, in a calm, non- confrontational way. It isn't a big deal to amend his behaviour to include the things you are asking. I have no issues with recreational drug use, (although I feel that many posters will focus on this bit of your post), but the idea of going "off grid" and not having phone coverage to enable contact with his pregnant spouse and kids would anger me. Fair enough, he would be no use in case of emergency if he was off the head, but at least he could be contacted (or have the ability to contact you if anything happened).

username123

He sounds like a big child. Seriously, an adult man who is a father bickering about not wearing a helmet because he is afraid that strangers might think he is a gimp? If you hadnt specified it was your husband Id have thought you were talking about a teenager!

Unfortunately you cannot control another persons behaviour. You can outline your concerns and then he can decide if he wants to adjust his behaviour or not. You can choose to live with the consequence of this or escalate. Thats it in a nutshell.

Personally I wouldnt be happy if my husband completely disregarded my fears about something. Your husband is disrespectful. Im not really seeing where the wonderful is in this. He is disrespectful, irresponsible, rude and petulant.

Remember when your father used to go off and get wrecked on drugs and then come back after being off the grid while doing it? No? Thats because most fathers have the cop on not to do that kind of stuff when they have the responsibilities of parenthood and being the sole earner.

Czarcasm

Rosy Posy wrote: »

When I outline my concerns he turns into a petulant teenager with a 'you're not the boss of me' attitude. He thinks that I worry unnecessarily (I actually think that for a mother I'm on the chilled end of the spectrum) and that I'm being an unreasonable nag. He says it's his right to have space to do what he wants since I had some time on holiday to go to a market or get a massage; and that I've gone hiking off the grid with friends before (we brought two bottles of wine between three of us and I was at peak health). I don't have a problem with him having space to unwind apart from the family, I just wish he'd exercise a reasonable degree of caution. I find it very difficult to discuss this with him as he just shuts down. In general I tend to be more articulate and better at arguing than him so his tactic is to not engage me and instead do what he wants anyway. I am trying very hard not to fall into the role of the nagging wife and I'm also trying to be reasonable and meet him halfway. He doesn't seem to see that his actions and their consequences effect the whole family and therefore he should consider his responsibilities when making these decisions. I get the feeling that it's an escape from these very responsibilities that he's seeking when he engages in this behaviour so what I'm really asking for is a way to get through to him that it's ok to blow off steam as long as he stays within the realms of basic safety.

The bit in bold there Rosy tbh speaks volumes in and of itself. You're allowing your husband to behave like a petulant teenager because you treat him like a petulant teenager and tolerate his behaviour. The solution is quite simple - Don't tolerate his behaviour.

Don't make an argument out of it, don't try to reason with it, don't even entertain the idea of it. Your husband thinks he has a licence to do silly shìt because he's the breadwinner in the family, well that was his choice as an adult. He behaves like a risk taking teenager "to blow off steam" because you have allowed him to not take your feelings and the responsibility he has towards his family seriously.

It's all well and good and your husband can beat his chest about how he takes responsibility for his family by providing for them financially, but how is he going to provide for them financially when he can't work, or he has an accident caused by his irresponsible behaviour and his family has to end up taking care of him and tending to his needs because his accident leaves him in a position where he can't take care of himself?

You need your husband, and your children together need their father. Your husband needs to grow up and you need to put your foot down. You're having it tough enough I'd imagine to raise three small children, you shouldn't have to be raising one big child when you also have another small one on the way.

Your husband needs to be told that all the financial support in the world means nothing if you can't depend on him to be the best husband and father you know he can be!

LegacyUser

I have to be honest your husband sounds like a teenager who never grew up.

What happens if he has a accident doing what you have told us and trys to make an insurance claim?
What would happen to you and the children if he ends up in hospital for a long period of time - with high medical bills and meanwhile you have no sorce of income?
I know someone who had a bad accident on a moped abroad. She ended up in hospital for a period of time and eventually got an air ambulance back to Ireland. She spent months at home, had to learn to walk ect. A few years after the accident she still had no memory of it.

At this stage you need to have a serious chat with him and tell him that the above behaviour is not on. You need to tell him that he has have 3 children and another one on the way and you are no longer in a position to mind him along with the children.
Ask him how would you expect me to cope if you ended up with a brain injury or if you ended up disabled ? Ask him how would he feel if his children did not want to be near him due to how he looked/acted due to having a bad accident?
I would also ask him what do you expect me to do for money if you could not work for a period of time?

Your husband has to realise as an adult and a married man with a family that he has to think of more than himself.
At this stage of his life he has to consider both you and the children before doing stupid things like this.

Rosy Posy

Mayboy wrote: »

Sorry but I don't understand the 'wonderful' bit, objectively speaking he uses drugs, drives around with no helmet on, puts your only revenue stream at risk and then goes mad when you bring up the (pretty simple) reality of the situation, Don't get me wrong I'm not having a go at you but interested as to how you think this is wonderful?

Thanks for the replies. I think that a little context might be useful.

I know from my post concerning this issue it's not clear but he truly is a great father and husband in general. He's extremely patient and spends quality time with each of the kids. He often gets up with them and let's me sleep in and will regularly take them so I can exercise/pursue my interests/have a girls night or weekend away. He has never once complained if housework isn't done or dinner isn't on the table and especially in the first trimester, he'd come home from work the house will be in tatters and I'd go straight to bed and he'd make dinner and put the kids to bed. He's also considerate of our relationship and is usually the one to suggest/organise date nights and babysitting. We have a really good relationship and I love him more now than I did when I first met him and even when I married him.

I also realise that recreational drugs are a deal breaker/major problem for many people but I don't have an issue with it because it's not a regular thing and it's no where near the children. The last time he (we both) did recreational drugs was at electric picnic four years ago when the kids were at their grandparents' for the weekend. We came home on the Monday afternoon clean and sober. I would never expose my children to that nor would he. His friend is a farmer and found the mushrooms on his land by chance, so it's an opportunistic thing.

ElleEm wrote: »

The big problem here is the fact that he seems to be unwilling to acknowledge your concerns. From what you are writing, you are very supportive in him living his life and having fun, but you want him to compromise and include some additional safety to his behaviour. You need to speak to him about this, in a calm, non- confrontational way. It isn't a big deal to amend his behaviour to include the things you are asking. I have no issues with recreational drug use, (although I feel that many posters will focus on this bit of your post), but the idea of going "off grid" and not having phone coverage to enable contact with his pregnant spouse and kids would anger me. Fair enough, he would be no use in case of emergency if he was off the head, but at least he could be contacted (or have the ability to contact you if anything happened).

Czarcasm wrote: »

You need your husband, and your children together need their father. Your husband needs to grow up and you need to put your foot down. You're having it tough enough I'd imagine to raise three small children, you shouldn't have to be raising one big child when you also have another small one on the way.

Your husband needs to be told that all the financial support in the world means nothing if you can't depend on him to be the best husband and father you know he can be!

I have long ago realised that by taking on the role of the nagging mammy I am pushing him into the role of the petulant teenager and so I try not to let my frustration with the situation show. I try to present my reasons in a level and logical manner and then drop it. However he knows that when it comes to the children I will not let something pass if I think it's seriously detrimental to them.

The going out of phone coverage concern is more for him than for me. I wouldn't be the type to be ringing him up wanting to know what he's doing and if there was an urgent situation at home the last thing I'd want would be for him to be driving with someone on drugs, or indeed being there in that state. My concern would be that he'd do something stupid to hurt himself and wouldn't be able to call for help or sufficiently mobilise to get out of the situation by himself.

Before we had kids both of us were pretty much adrenaline junkies and did a lot of stupid and reckless things. Shortly after our first child was born I had a bad horse riding accident from which I was lucky to eventually walk away. It really brought home to me that I wasn't invincible and the weight of my responsibilities to look after my body not just for me but for the child I was supporting. I don't think that he's come to that realisation yet. When I look back on our early twenties I think that it's a miracle that we didn't end up dead, seriously injured or in prison; he looks back and thinks we led some kind of charmed life and that it's not his destiny to die or be injured in that way. I would love to find a way of adjusting his perspective without something terrible having to happen. I also think that it's hard because I'm the one who has changed, he's retained a similar outlook despite our life changes. While I think these changes are positive and necessary, he thinks that I worry excessively.

I also think that there are mitigating factors that exacerbate the situation at the moment. He has a lot of interests but, apart from reading and meditation, they are all physical. With his recent injury all of this has had to stop and he is left without a physical outlet. He has also recently quit smoking and he's been on antibiotics for over a month and hasn't been able to even have a beer. He also has quite a lot of responsibility at work, and we have significant if manageable financial obligations for which at the moment he is solely responsible. Add all this to the impending birth of a fourth child with absolutely no family support for about 20000km and I can understand why the guy is feeling the pressure and needs a release. I know that for me my craft work has saved my sanity on occasion and I wish he had something like this to break the routine, but I can't see him getting enthusiastic about crochet...

Fwiw the motorbike thing never materialised- we got to the hire place and he decided that he wasn't up to it physically with his injury. I don't know if my appeal to common sense had anything to do with his decision. I just wish there was a way to get him to come to a place where he's comfortable with his responsibilities and doesn't need me to remind him of them.

Beruthiel

Rosy Posy wrote: »

Now the speed limit is 50kmph on the island and most people aren't wearing helmets, and he also has a good bit of experience on bikes. But still the thought of him going around with the potential to have his head crushed like a watermelon terrifies me.

I drove bikes for 10 years. I've had accidents through no fault of my own but due to blind, idiotic drivers. Had I not been wearing a helmet, I'd be dead now.
Even while wearing all the proper gear, I still carry scars.

It doesn't matter how careful a biker you are, you cannot control other road users.
He's an absolute idiot if he is actually arguing with you over that fact.
You need to sit him down again and calmly explain this to him.
Explain to him that you and his children need him and he must think of you also when he's having his fun.
Is it really that big a deal that he wear a helmet? It will not prevent him from having a good time on the bike.

username123

Sounds like you've plenty of excuses ready to explain his behaviour. I just can't agree that drug taking doesn't affect children even if they don't witness it directly. No heed to go into it but the bottom line is that it's very irresponsible. When you have kids at least one parent should contactable and sober in case of emergency.

What do his or your parents think about his reckless behaviour and the recreational drug taking?

Honey-ec

Rosy Posy wrote: »

Thanks for the replies. I think that a little context might be useful.

I know from my post concerning this issue it's not clear but he truly is a great father and husband in general. He's extremely patient and spends quality time with each of the kids. He often gets up with them and let's me sleep in and will regularly take them so I can exercise/pursue my interests/have a girls night or weekend away.

To be honest, everything you mention there is a bare minimum I would expect any father to do, not grounds to nominate him for Dad & Husband of the Year 2013.

He sounds like Peter Pan, tbh. From what you described, you were both incredibly irresponsible in your 20s. You grew out of that, fine. He, however, hasn't, and, furthermore, has no interest in doing so. That's the crux of it.

He sounds exactly like my Dad's brother, tbh. A man of 43 who still thinks he's 19. He thinks he's cool, and refusing to go quietly into the night. Everyone else, his kids included, thinks he's pathetic.

It's time for your husband to put away childish things. How you convince him of this, I have no idea. I recall from a previous thread of yours that you had your children in fairly quick succession. Maybe his refusal to grow-up is a reaction to this? It's very possible he feels like was dropped into "real life" before he was really ready for it. If that's the case, well, bully for him. It happened and now he has to deal with it.

reprazant

username123 wrote: »

Sounds like you've plenty of excuses ready to explain his behaviour. I just can't agree that drug taking doesn't affect children even if they don't witness it directly. No heed to go into it but the bottom line is that it's very irresponsible. When you have kids at least one parent should contactable and sober in case of emergency.

What do his or your parents think about his reckless behaviour and the recreational drug taking?

His or her parents have zero need to be told about it. The op will be contactable and sober since it him and his mate going to do the mushrooms. Do you tell you other half's parent about everything he/she does that you don't approve of or that they wouldn't approve of? This is between the OP and her husband. To attempt to include his or her parent is very childish and quite pathetic really.

thefeatheredcat

OP what has been your reaction in the past to his injuries caused by his reckless behaviour? His reaction to you taking the common sense approach is labelling you a "fun killer".... more so because you won't go along with whatever he wants and therefore maybe not giving him the validation that he wants.

Rosy Posy wrote: »

For some reason this is something that comes up around the birth of a new baby, and I believe it's not uncommon in new fathers.

This sounds like an overall built up thing that he needs to release.... has the risk increased over the years? Perhaps what he needs is to realise that rather than building up the need to release and then engaging in major risk taking behaviour, he needs to release more often but in less riskier ways? Can you propose that to him?

Rosy Posy wrote: »

Shortly after our first child was born I had a bad horse riding accident from which I was lucky to eventually walk away. It really brought home to me that I wasn't invincible and the weight of my responsibilities to look after my body not just for me but for the child I was supporting. I don't think that he's come to that realisation yet.

Rosy Posy wrote: »

My concern would be that he'd do something stupid to hurt himself and wouldn't be able to call for help or sufficiently mobilise to get out of the situation by himself.

I think you're right. Through the accident you learned something valuable. He hasn't had the same experience as you that might jolt that realisation, so he won't be coming from the same angle on anything that you might be worrying for him, yourself and your children and the potential impacts on your family life together. He probably would be of the thinking that nothing is going to happen on that time with his friend, and even if the worst happens, then that surely happens to other people, and that he would be fine anyway and would cope. I think he really ought to realise that it is for the benefit of him and his friend to be within coverage if something were to go wrong. If they don't want to be contactable for that time, they can just turn off the phones, but keep them handy just in case.

He does have constant reminders of the responsibilities but his aim is to escape them for a while. But he is probably not linking responsibility and personal safety, the personal responsibility he has to himself, which appears to him to be the least relevant, as in being responsible for himself at those points in time when he needs a release and seeing that as a priority for him too and the wider consequences and impacts it has on others. I'm not sure if I'm conveying what I'm thinking, but how high a priority does he see himself, his well being to himself and within the family overall? And in life in general?

I don't know, in some ways I'd feel that he realises quite well it's risky and dangerous and potentially with serious consequences, but that his attitude towards your concern, perhaps he's just in denial that there's anything really that risky in it all. I know experience is the best way to learn and nobody would want for something unfortunate to happen for him to learn, I suppose the only answer would be that if someone he knew went through something similar to your worst fears, it might be an eye opener. Other than that, the only other thing perhaps is that he moves from engaging in risky behaviour to maybe something competitive that gives him the same feeling? Or goes another direction to get a release like indulging in relaxation stuff like massages and spas and that?

Rosy Posy

username123 wrote: »

Sounds like you've plenty of excuses ready to explain his behaviour. I just can't agree that drug taking doesn't affect children even if they don't witness it directly. No heed to go into it but the bottom line is that it's very irresponsible. When you have kids at least one parent should contactable and sober in case of emergency.

Sorry but this just doesn't seem realistic to me. Do you really think that once you have a child that you can never have a night out together again without one of you staying sober until the children are old enough to fend for themselves? To me that seems excessive. Fair enough that would be our policy with a very young child (under one) or if we had a teenager looking after our kids, but if our parents are there (and at this stage it's an annual event) I think it's reasonable to have a night off together. If that's how you choose to parent and it works for you, great, you're probably a better parent than I am. I'm comfortable with my parenting decisions and tbh that's not what I started this thread for.

I do agree that if you're taking drugs regularly it's going to effect your kids whether they see it or not, but one night in four years, if you return sober the next day is not an issue for me.

username123

Rosy Posy wrote: »

Sorry but this just doesn't seem realistic to me. Do you really think that once you have a child that you can never have a night out together again without one of you staying sober until the children are old enough to fend for themselves? To me that seems excessive. Fair enough that would be our policy with a very young child (under one) or if we had a teenager looking after our kids, but if our parents are there (and at this stage it's an annual event) I think it's reasonable to have a night off together. If that's how you choose to parent and it works for you, great, you're probably a better parent than I am. I'm comfortable with my parenting decisions and tbh that's not what I started this thread for.

I do agree that if you're taking drugs regularly it's going to effect your kids whether they see it or not, but one night in four years, if you return sober the next day is not an issue for me.

I'm not a parent, I wouldn't like the level of responsibility involved. I understand what you are saying, and if don't see an issue with a couple of drinks but if both parents are getting wrecked on booze and drugs - what happens if one of the kids has an accident and wants their mother? There's a big difference between a few drinks where you are still holding it together and a weekend of drug taking.

Again, what do your or his parents think about this? I am asking because if I was minding someone's children I'd like to know I could contact them in an emergency and I wouldn't be impressed at the level of responsibility I would be expected to take on because the parents of the kids were on drugs for the weekend. It's not the drugs btw, I would think the same if the parents were on a 48 hour binge drinking session.

And if I was pregnant I wouldn't like my partner off non contactable and high. Actually I wouldn't like my partner off non contactable and high anyway, I just think it's irresponsible.

Mighty_Mouse

I'm going to push against the tide here.

Life does not have to end with kids. Fundamentally irrevocable compromised involving huge sacrifices of independence and freedom.........sure. But it's not the end. The same should apply to marriage.

There's a tone that hum's from your message of persistent "nagging". I know you are a woman in love pestered by worry. But the man you married was and is a free spirit. He's a good husband and father. Let him have his occasional fun without standing over him with a clipboard. Voice your considerations strongly and bluntly but leave it at that. The reason being you won't get anywhere and will sacrifice a part of your relationship pointlessly.

He's going to be an idiotic sometimes. But life is not meant to be lived in the complete avoidance of idiocy.

Karen8

Unfortunately you cant change other person unless they want to. I suppose you already tried to talk to him numerous times.
Your choice here is to accept it or consider a separation and clearly tell him this.
And buy an insurance if you already didn't do that. Thats all you can do, the rest is in his hands.

kunst nugget

username123 wrote: »

I'm not a parent, I wouldn't like the level of responsibility involved. I understand what you are saying, and if don't see an issue with a couple of drinks but if both parents are getting wrecked on booze and drugs - what happens if one of the kids has an accident and wants their mother? There's a big difference between a few drinks where you are still holding it together and a weekend of drug taking.

He's talking about taking some Magic Mushrooms with his mate. I'm guessing you've never indulged in any sort of recreational drug taking but there's no way that amounts to a 'weekend of drug taking'. The mushrooms aren't the issue, it's the location and his mobility. There'd be no bother if he was sitting in a house and chilling out. You'll also be a hell of a lot more together in the morning than you would be after a night on the beer.

username123 wrote: »

Again, what do your or his parents think about this? I am asking because if I was minding someone's children I'd like to know I could contact them in an emergency and I wouldn't be impressed at the level of responsibility I would be expected to take on because the parents of the kids were on drugs for the weekend. It's not the drugs btw, I would think the same if the parents were on a 48 hour binge drinking session.

If I go to a wedding with my wife and we drink at it - I'm not talking a 48 hour drinking binge but a couple of glasses of wine and some pints, we are just as unlikely to be of help in an emergency when one or other of our parents are looking after our kids. Our parents know that and understand it when we are going to the wedding and will ensure that our kids will be looked after in our absence. That doesn't mean we don't love our kids.

username123 wrote: »

And if I was pregnant I wouldn't like my partner off non contactable and high. Actually I wouldn't like my partner off non contactable and high anyway, I just think it's irresponsible.

It's the non-contactable thing that is the issue here and only that in my opinion. She's already stated that what he's doing is a one off event. It's not like the man is shooting up in the sitting room. Tbf, if I was to head over to a mates to do some mushrooms, and if they opportunity arose I'd consider it but it's not something I'd actively seek out, I'd be keeping it indoors. The name of the game is compromise. Her husband needs to learn the meaning of it.

kunst nugget

Karen8 wrote: »

Unfortunately you cant change other person unless they want to. I suppose you already tried to talk to him numerous times.
Your choice here is to accept it or consider a separation and clearly tell him this.
And buy an insurance if you already didn't do that. Thats all you can do, the rest is in his hands.

Sorry but talking about separation here is nonsense. She clearly loves her husband, she just wants him to think more about his actions. Maybe try to show him how much his mobility could affect him by going for a walk at the weekend in the country together and maybe talking calmly afterwards about your fears. If he's being petulant and giving you the silent treatment don't feed it by getting exasperated of trying to fight with him. Somebody sulking is being childish and looking for attention so ignore it and go about your own thing oblivious to it. You wouldn't give into a petulant child and you shouldn't give into a petulant partner.

alias06

My two cents here. I'm a real sensible guy. Don't like taking risks at all. Don't smoke, don't take drugs, or even drink a lot. But I don't wear a helmet when cycling. People have explained the risks to me loads of times and it makes no difference. I have a racer and I go on big long cycles sometimes more than 70 miles on country roads. I also cycle to work everyday and never wear a helmet. I know its stupid but I hate wearing them and I enjoy the freedom of feeling of wind in my hair when I'm cycling. I love cycling and I don't enjoy it wearing a helmet. I'm prepared to take the risk and I have made my peace with it. Other people smoke and take other risks and they have made their peace with that and I don't hassle them about it. The obsession with safety and long levity is life denying. People have to live their life and there is always a certain amount of risk. We face risk/reward choices everyday, every time we step outside. You can't wrap your husband up and cotton wool and even if you could there is no guarantee something bad wouldn't happen to him. You have to let go. Your husband is a grown man. He knows what he's doing. He takes some risks, just like everyone else, enjoys the adrenaline rush, but he is well able to look after himself. You need to let go of the worrying.

Czarcasm

alias06 wrote: »

People have to live their life and there is always a certain amount of risk. We face risk/reward choices everyday, every time we step outside. You can't wrap your husband up and cotton wool and even if you could there is no guarantee something bad wouldn't happen to him. You have to let go. Your husband is a grown man. He knows what he's doing. He takes some risks, just like everyone else, but he is well able to look after himself. You need to let go of the worrying.

It all well and good to say I take risks, and I do this, that and the other, and that's fine... when you only have yourself to think of. We all take risks and we've all done silly shìt, but when you have more than just yourself to think of, you really can't afford the same laissez faire attitude to life.

The OP's husband needs to realise that yes, while he might still want to be as free spirited as he was in his youth (hell, wouldn't we all!), the fact is that now as the sole breadwinner in the family with a wife and children he is responsible for, he chose to give up those freedoms, or at least SHOULD have chosen to give up those freedoms instead of trying to burn the candle at both ends.

The OP is afraid of coming off like a "the nagging wife", but her husband isn't exactly hen-pecked, and telling him to grow up and be a responsible adult is the responsible adult thing to do, rather than worry about what he'll think of her if she tells him it's time to cop on because she wants him around long into the future.

alias06

Czarcasm wrote: »

It all well and good to say I take risks, and I do this, that and the other, and that's fine... when you only have yourself to think of. We all take risks and we've all done silly shìt, but when you have more than just yourself to think of, you really can't afford the same laissez faire attitude to life.

Agreed. Would you make your partner give up smoking then because they don't only have themselves to think about? Your straying into the area of trying to change/control your partner then. Everyone has to weigh up the balance of risk they take in their lives and they make choices about it everyday. The man has to live. He can't go around in cotton wool. In fact he may need this kind of activity and adrenaline rush. I would bet the husband has always been like this and now that the OP has kids with him she expects him to change and he isn't going to. This is who he is. I don't think the OP is going to have much success getting her husband to change his attitude to risk to be honest.

Czarcasm

alias06 wrote: »

Agreed. Would you make your partner give up smoking then because they don't only have themselves to think about? Your straying into the area of trying to change/control your partner then. Everyone has to weigh up the balance of risk they take in their lives and they make choices about it everyday. The man has to live. He can't go around in cotton will. In fact he may need this kind of activity and adrenaline rush. I don't think the OP is going to have much success getting her husband to change his attitude to risk to be honest.

After having a bit of a heart scare my wife has tried to make me give them up alright, damn you had to pick the one vice, eh?

But I mean, I've compromised on other stuff, like cut back on my working hours, cut back on drink, cut back on the herb (medicinal, lol, body is riddled with arthritis), and I've curbed some other risky behaviours because it was either carry on the way I was going, or risk losing what I had, and when faced with that choice, I know what you mean by controlling, as in certainly the threat was made, but it was more a case of would I continue to put my wife through that constant worry and continue to seek my own selfish pleasures, or could I sacrifice that for what I'd gained and be happy with that much?

I really didn't have to think long and hard about it tbh

Mighty_Mouse

Tbh this whole thread is depressing.
At what point does a persons lose the right to experience life as they see fit?
Individual freedom ?
There's something thrilling about not wear a helmet scooting around an sunny island. Same for a bicycle. There's a sense of freedom. But, fair enough, it's stupid and probably not worth the risk.

The argument should be along the lines of "do you not think you should wear a helmet?". After which it's up to this experienced motorcyclist to decide how he wants to ride his frickin bike for gods sake.

The language the OP uses is frantic and dramatic.
She see's danger everywhere.

The OP states she is "in general I tend to be more articulate and better at arguing than him " . She's not.

She uses the "setting a bad example for our son" as leverage to win all arguments. How can a father argue that a kid should walk out into the woods and take mushrooms sometime? Or skate down an impossibly steep hill. jump from an impossible high cliff, climb a tall tree, get too drunk, or ride his bike off steps, or get lost a dodgy area of a foreign city, swim too far from shore..............................You shouldn't do it because you might get hurt, right?

The kid will grow up fine. When he's old enough, he'll make his own decisions.

Life doesn't end with marriage and kids.
The right to walk into the wilderness and disconnect from the world should never be taken away from anyone. Again it's a life experience. A memory of a time shared with a friend that lasts forever.

It seems that since her accident all the OP can see is the danger in everything. She wants to wrap her partner and child up in cotton wool.
Protect them from the dangers of the world. The problem is you are in danger of choking the life out of them.

This guy is in his 30's. He is not dead.
Don't brow beat this man.
Don't take away his independence because you'll break him.
I guarantee you will know it when you do because the life will drain from him.

He is clearly a good father and partner. Can you trust him to take care of himself?

Rosy Posy

thefeatheredcat wrote: »

OP what has been your reaction in the past to his injuries caused by his reckless behaviour? His reaction to you taking the common sense approach is labelling you a "fun killer".... more so because you won't go along with whatever he wants and therefore maybe not giving him the validation that he wants.

Thanks for your helpful post! I have tried, for the sake of our relationship, to make it really clear that I will not play into the mother role and that he is responsible for his own behaviour. I try to accept him as he is and don't expect him to change, certainly not for me. I believe if someone is to change then they need to do it for themselves and not because someone is badgering them to do so. However I am also clear that I will not allow his behaviour to negatively impact on the children so if I feel that they are at risk I will step in and either remove them or ask him to leave depending on what's appropriate. This particularly applies to stuff like him quitting smoking but I suppose it applies here too.

thefeatheredcat wrote: »

This sounds like an overall built up thing that he needs to release.... has the risk increased over the years? Perhaps what he needs is to realise that rather than building up the need to release and then engaging in major risk taking behaviour, he needs to release more often but in less riskier ways? Can you propose that to him?

He was managing this really well with his physical activities, martial arts etc, its just that now that he's had the injury he's not able to do this anymore and he's a little bit lost.

thefeatheredcat wrote: »

I think you're right. Through the accident you learned something valuable. He hasn't had the same experience as you that might jolt that realisation, so he won't be coming from the same angle on anything that you might be worrying for him, yourself and your children and the potential impacts on your family life together. He probably would be of the thinking that nothing is going to happen on that time with his friend, and even if the worst happens, then that surely happens to other people, and that he would be fine anyway and would cope. I think he really ought to realise that it is for the benefit of him and his friend to be within coverage if something were to go wrong. If they don't want to be contactable for that time, they can just turn off the phones, but keep them handy just in case.

He does have constant reminders of the responsibilities but his aim is to escape them for a while. But he is probably not linking responsibility and personal safety, the personal responsibility he has to himself, which appears to him to be the least relevant, as in being responsible for himself at those points in time when he needs a release and seeing that as a priority for him too and the wider consequences and impacts it has on others. I'm not sure if I'm conveying what I'm thinking, but how high a priority does he see himself, his well being to himself and within the family overall? And in life in general?

I don't know, in some ways I'd feel that he realises quite well it's risky and dangerous and potentially with serious consequences, but that his attitude towards your concern, perhaps he's just in denial that there's anything really that risky in it all. I know experience is the best way to learn and nobody would want for something unfortunate to happen for him to learn, I suppose the only answer would be that if someone he knew went through something similar to your worst fears, it might be an eye opener. Other than that, the only other thing perhaps is that he moves from engaging in risky behaviour to maybe something competitive that gives him the same feeling? Or goes another direction to get a release like indulging in relaxation stuff like massages and spas and that?

This is pretty much the long and short of it. He still thinks that he's in some way special and nothing bad will happen to him. Through his work he sees people seriously injured all the time, which is one thing that I just don't get- he knows the consequences, he just doesn't think they apply to him.

Regarding the phone thing, he knows I wouldn't be ringing him and he doesn't want to be out of coverage for that reason- its more that they want to get right out into the wilderness. There are plenty of secluded camping spots that still get reception, and don't require off-road vehicles, he's just not keen on compromising and doesn't see validity of my concern.

He was into the martial arts stuff which was great but as I said his new physical restrictions are imposing a problem for him. He did go for a massage and to a meditation garden for his time out instead of the bike thing in the end and he did enjoy it, I think it just smacks too much of going quietly into the good night for him while he still feels there's a bit of rage in him!

Rosy Posy

Mighty_Mouse wrote: »

Tbh this whole thread is depressing.
At what point does a persons lose the right to experience life as they see fit?
Individual freedom ?
There's something thrilling about not wear a helmet scooting around an sunny island. Same for a bicycle. There's a sense of freedom. But, fair enough, it's stupid and probably not worth the risk.

The argument should be along the lines of "do you not think you should wear a helmet?". After which it's up to this experienced motorcyclist to decide how he wants to ride his frickin bike for gods sake.

I can see your point here, which is why I don't think its within my rights to put the foot down and 'forbid' him from doing it if he wants to. At the same time at the moment myself and the children are fully financially dependent on him, if he makes no consideration of us in how he takes care of his physical body then effectively he is the boss and we are his chattels with our future depending on his whims- that's not what I signed up for in a relationship.

Mighty_Mouse wrote: »

The language the OP uses is frantic and dramatic.
She see's danger everywhere.

I really don't think that this is the case. I think that there is a continuum and I am somewhere in the middle. I play a contact sport when I'm not pregnant; our kids climb trees, ride bikes and scooters, jump on trampolines, do woodwork, swim in the sea, have bonfires; and I'd be fine with the motorbike thing if he'd just wear a helmet and not listen to headphones, and his going on the trip if he wasn't physically injured at the moment, as I am fine with him going away on weekends with mates and doing whatever, jumping off waterfalls, doing martial arts and other extreme sports. I just think that when you're responsible for providing for a family that it would be prudent to modify your behaviour in order to provide some kind of safety net.

Mighty_Mouse wrote: »

The OP states she is "in general I tend to be more articulate and better at arguing than him " . She's not.

She uses the "setting a bad example for our son" as leverage to win all arguments. How can a father argue that a kid should walk out into the woods and take mushrooms sometime? Or skate down an impossibly steep hill. jump from an impossible high cliff, climb a tall tree, get too drunk, or ride his bike off steps, or get lost a dodgy area of a foreign city, swim too far from shore..............................You shouldn't do it because you might get hurt, right?

On the contrary, this wasn't the argument I used at all. I said that I didn't want my son to see him riding a motorbike without a helmet, full stop. What he chooses to do so when our children can't see him is his own business but I'm damned if I'm letting him plant the seed in my child's mind that that is ok behaviour before he's passed through the boy racer years.

The fact that I do tend to be able to formulate more logical arguments than him (and this is a fact to which we will both attest- I was on my college debating team, he is a man of science) means that I have actually learned not to go for the jugular in an argument but to try to listen and get him to articulate his needs and compromise, in my experience it makes for a better dialogue and in the end a better partnership. I mean, he's bigger than me, he wouldn't beat me into submission just because he can, so why should I run verbal and logical rings around him in order to get my way.

I wonder if you have actually read my posts at all. I don't have a problem with him going out into the forest and taking mushrooms. If he was at the peak of his health I would be fine with what he's proposing (minus the being driven by someone under the influence). But what Czarcasm said in an earlier post really brought it home to me- he said go for a walk in the country and talk about it- atm that is just not on the cards. He can't walk more than 500m or so without rest, and his pace is similar to that of our two year old. If he pushes himself beyond this he could have a relapse and could get himself into a situation where he can't walk at all. He is a big guy and his friend is pretty small- I don't know if he would be able to move him physically, at the best of times, never mind while high. If this does happen I would like him to be in a position to switch his phone on (I don't want to be ringing him and wrecking his buzz) and call for help. The other thing is that the injury that he has at the moment is a result of a pre-existing condition which means that its not covered under our insurance. I know there are a lot of ifs and buts in this situation and it probably will never happen but by him not considering the what if it means that I have to. I would be fine with him going in his current condition if he was to go to a less remote spot (and its New Zealand, there are choice camping spots all over the place that still get coverage and don't involve a dirt road and a river ford).

alias06

Rosy Posy wrote: »

The fact that I do tend to be able to formulate more logical arguments than him (and this is a fact to which we will both attest- I was on my college debating team, he is a man of science) means that I have actually learned not to go for the jugular in an argument but to try to listen and get him to articulate his needs and compromise, in my experience it makes for a better dialogue and in the end a better partnership. I mean, he's bigger than me, he wouldn't beat me into submission just because he can, so why should I run verbal and logical rings around him in order to get my way.

Fine you were on the college debating team but that doesn't mean you are a better communicator in this situation - a totally different type of communication is required here. I imagine that even with the best will in the world you are coming across as patronising and controlling when you bring this up. You need to get across to him that because you love him and the kids and because of the financial situation and you want him to take it easy and minimise the risk taking for a while. And then you need to offer some rewards and make an effort to reconnect with him in ways that don't involve taking risks.

keeponhurling

He sounds like good craic in fairness, maybe part of the reason you fell for him in the first place?

alias06

Also from your husbands point of view, I know when your injured it is nice, even important, to still go out and do things despite the injury. Have you considered he may need to do this as a way of coping?

Sleepy

TBH, from your first post I got the "husband hasn't changed since getting married, wife has and is pissed at him for not changing too" vibe but tbh, you sound perfectly reasonable to me here. Maybe it's because that while I've done risky things in my life, they were pre-meditated, pre-kids and I gave them quite a bit of thought before deciding that the benefits of the experience outweighed the risks. So I'm quite a cautious person by nature (my wife would be the one with a history of motorbikes and risky behaviour).

Have you thought about looking into "risky" behaviours he could engage in until his health improves? I mean things that'll get the pulse going and adrenalin up that aren't necessarily all that dangerous? You don't mention what his health condition is but would he be able for things like clay-pigeon shooting / archery / navigating for a mate in a motorsport or something like that? Helping him to find an outlet for his need for speed that doesn't involve causing you unnecessry anxiety seems the compromise route here to me.

LegacyUser

Your husband needs to grow up and cop on to himself. We all lament the loss of our hedonistic teenage years to some extent but it doesn't mean we relive them as responsible adults.

I would never knowingly do *anything* to upset my partner nor would he purposely pursue something that would upset me. I honestly wouldn't be with him if he did. I'm all for a bit of fun but at the end of the day, it stops being fun if it involves really worrying someone I love.

Pleading independence is one thing but a married father disappearing to do drugs in the wilderness smacks of a stubborn 16 year old with some serious rebellion issues.

You're pregnant for God's sake -what man willingly wants to stress his pregnant wife? This is a time when he should be more supportive, not less!

Let him go on his little junket but casually inform him you're going bungee jumping when he gets back. Then switch off your phone and hang out in a hotel for a few days -I'm sure the right to fun works both ways!

alias06

Rosy Posy wrote: »

I can see your point here, which is why I don't think its within my rights to put the foot down and 'forbid' him from doing it if he wants to. At the same time at the moment myself and the children are fully financially dependent on him, if he makes no consideration of us in how he takes care of his physical body then effectively he is the boss and we are his chattels with our future depending on his whims- that's not what I signed up for in a relationship.

He is not taking 'no consideration of you in how he takes care of his physical body'. Not wearing a helmet and listening to headphones while riding a moped on a sunny island [the speed limit is 50km, he has a lot of experience on bikes and most people aren't wearing helmets] and being out of phone coverage for a short while is on the mild end of the risk taking spectrum to be honest. He has an injury and rather than feel utterly depressed about it he seems to be showing good coping skills by going out and doing what he can to enjoy himself in spite of it.

Rosy Posy wrote: »

On the contrary, this wasn't the argument I used at all. I said that I didn't want my son to see him riding a motorbike without a helmet, full stop. What he chooses to do so when our children can't see him is his own business but I'm damned if I'm letting him plant the seed in my child's mind that that is ok behaviour before he's passed through the boy racer years.

Can you hear yourself here? Do you really think you have the right to confront your husband about setting a bad example for your son. You'd swear your husband was a drunk and a bowsy. You have said yourself he is a good father. He is riding a moped on a sunny island. Having headphones in and not wearing a helmet so he can feel the breeze and the sunshine adds to the fun. Most people aren't wearing helmets -they aren't all irresponsible idiots - they know the overwhelming likelihood is they will be fine. He can't do everything by the book just because he has a son. He can't become Ned Flanders.

To give you a sense of perspective here. My father had quite a dangerous job for over 30 years. He used to work with explosives for rock blasting in quarries and mines. For rock blasting you drill holes deep in the rock and then pack each hole with explosives. The explosives in each hole are then connected with electric wire and then detonated together when given a single electric charge. The explosion shatters the rock and this allows diggers to come in and extract it. He would spend days, sometimes weeks drilling the holes for the explosives and when that was finished there would be the day where the blasting (i.e. the firing of explosives for shattering the rock) would take place. When I was kid I used to go with him for "the blast". As a kid I loved it. I would be in the van with my dad when we went to pick up the explosives (under Garda escort). Then we would drive to the mine or quarry with sometimes up to a ton of explosives in the back of the van. My Dad would spend the whole day packing the holes with explosives and then wiring up all the holes so that all the explosives would fire together when given a single charge of electricity. By the end of the day we would often be standing on top of an area the size of a football field that was all wired and ready to blow up. Needless to say I loved it. I loved the fact that it was dangerous, that my dad knew the risks and knew what he was doing and could handle the whole situation. It allowed me to idolise my dad. In thirty years neither him nor anyone around him was ever injured in his work but obviously with every job he had to make choices to minimise risk to himself and others. My mum trusted him, not only to look after himself but to take me on the jobs as well which I loved. It was a great bonding experience and my fondest memories of my dad are our days on the job. Taking risks together is often exactly how fathers and sons bond.

Your husband is not the kind of guy who feels he needs to take every precaution every time he steps outside and he probably doesn't want to set that example for his son. You are being over the top here in my opinion.