Canada flood gates are now opening

RaggyDays

This is bad news for farmers here. Looks like we`ve been sold out by big business to get into Canada.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/stephen-harper-signs-eu-trade-deal-in-brussels-1.2101685

http://www.thestar.com/business/2013/10/17/eu_pact_could_affect_canadian_beef_cheese_drugs.html

bbam

not a bit surprised.. Its being coming for a while now...

onyerbikepat

For a country that exports most of it's own food, we can hardly complain when another country wishes to do the same. That's what's so worrying about farming in the EU, the viability of your farm could be literally destroyed, with a stroke of a pen over night.

RaggyDays

But the playing field is not equal, they don`t have the same level of animal welfare, Environmental and Traceability rules that we have

reilig

The Canadian Agri-food Trade Alliance is hailing the deal, predicting it will boost exports of beef and pork by $1 billion once farmers gear up supply in hormone-free livestock.

The text in bold is important to remember.
USA have had beef shortages in recent years and weren't prepared to import beef from Canada because of the hormones that they used in production. And that can be done by road.

When did the EU start allowing hormone produced meat to enter? They didn't. So unless Canada start producing certified traceable hormone free meat, it won't threaten EU beef producers. Certified, traceable hormone free meat costs 15 to 25% more to produce. Can they do it and compete on price? Brazil can't, Argentina can't. Why do people believe that Canada can?

bbam

reilig wrote: »

The text in bold is important to remember.
USA have had beef shortages in recent years and weren't prepared to import beef from Canada because of the hormones that they used in production. And that can be done by road.

When did the EU start allowing hormone produced meat to enter? They didn't. So unless Canada start producing certified traceable hormone free meat, it won't threaten EU beef producers. Certified, traceable hormone free meat costs 15 to 25% more to produce. Can they do it and compete on price? Brazil can't, Argentina can't. Why do people believe that Canada can?

An excellant point Rellig... but do you think the Canadians agreed to being sold a pup??
I seriously doubt they would have signed a deal that only had prospects to beifet the EU and not themselves...
I dislike the notion of them having two national herds running parallel and shipping only the hormone free beef here... our own industury couldnt even resist the temptation to substitute in from another spices to drive prices down. A market is a market and they will find a way to utilise it.

reilig

bbam wrote: »

An excellant point Rellig... but do you think the Canadians agreed to being sold a pup??
I seriously doubt they would have signed a deal that only had prospects to beifet the EU and not themselves...
I dislike the notion of them having two national herds running parallel and shipping only the hormone free beef here... our own industury couldnt even resist the temptation to substitute in from another spices to drive prices down. A market is a market and they will find a way to utilise it.

Agreed,

But we gotta keep finding a way to market our meat as green, healthy and traceable. As said before, we have natural advantage with our grass. We beat the South Americans, we can beat the Canadians!!

bbam

reilig wrote: »

Agreed,

But we gotta keep finding a way to market our meat as green, healthy and traceable. As said before, we have natural advantage with our grass. We beat the South Americans, we can beat the Canadians!!

Key to that is keeping our industry clean..
I think farmers more than play their part in producing good quality stock... Recent events tell us that when they leave the farms things get loose...

rancher

reilig wrote: »

The text in bold is important to remember.
USA have had beef shortages in recent years and weren't prepared to import beef from Canada because of the hormones that they used in production. And that can be done by road.

When did the EU start allowing hormone produced meat to enter? They didn't. So unless Canada start producing certified traceable hormone free meat, it won't threaten EU beef producers. Certified, traceable hormone free meat costs 15 to 25% more to produce. Can they do it and compete on price? Brazil can't, Argentina can't. Why do people believe that Canada can?

I wish I was as optimistic as you, but USA expects to get a deal to put in ten times the amount that Canada puts into Europe, now that the gates are open.
Canadian beef farmers expect to have no problem supplying Europe friendly beef. Brazil and argentinas' beef production has dropped in favour of grain, but output is rising again, so might be on the scene shortly again.
As for limiting it to 40,000 tons, who's going to monitor that.....impossible

Dampintheattic

reilig wrote: »

Agreed,

But we gotta keep finding a way to market our meat as green, healthy and traceable. As said before, we have natural advantage with our grass. We beat the South Americans, we can beat the Canadians!!

We are beating the S American's by taking the lowest price in Europe for our beef!! In reality, we the producers of "green, wholesome, traceable beef", are getting royally screwed over by the industry here.
And remember it's the processing side of our industry which got up to the dodgy horse meat scaandal, not the farmers.

bob charles

Im coining the phrase "Reduction 2015"

RaggyDays

I think its one more Nail in the suckler beef coffin here. Along with Covneys €60 - €25 DNA Scheme this has been terrible news

Conmaicne Mara

reilig wrote: »

Agreed,

But we gotta keep finding a way to market our meat as green, healthy and traceable. As said before, we have natural advantage with our grass. We beat the South Americans, we can beat the Canadians!!

LG was good at that if memory serves

Muckit

Calm down, calm down we can rely on Bord Bia to sell our green and clean image... :rolleyes:

tim04750

http://www.globalmeatnews.com/Regions/Europe/Ireland/EC-rejects-full-country-of-origin-labelling-for-meat-products

Its a step in the right direction but is it really too cumbersome to print on a label ??
In terms of total european production just how much is 70k tons of beef ?

Covneys €60 - €25 DNA Scheme

freedominacup

bob charles wrote: »

Im coining the phrase "Reduction 2015"

You might be onto something bob, maybe push the date out a bit. This might say we'll be recounting the halcyon days of the teenies and twenties to our
grandkids as they struggle with declining markets and diminishing returns if they're mad enough to keep at what we're all commited to.

http://blogs.reuters.com/james-saft/2013/09/11/investing-for-peak-population/

Might be time to fully commit to clean and green. Less might well be more in the future.

blue5000

Showing my age here now, but I met a Canadian girl in 1989, and she was bitching about how Irish cow beef was flooding into Canada back then. I suppose what goes around comes around. The only reason we have a beef price of around 4.00yoyo / kg now is because we managed to keep S. american beef out.

Another thing, whatever tonnage the canadians can export to EU it will all be high value cuts of fillet and steaks, there won't be any mince or fores coming in. This will have an even bigger effect on our market.

It won't be too simple for an IFA delegation to go to canada and take a few photos of cowboys butchering a cow under a tree, like they did in S. America. These guys have their homework done, ffs they probably read this forum:o

Can we convince consumers that grass fed beef is better than maize and M&M fed beef?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_pLy7Gjlwwhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_pLy7Gjlww

mf240

What's the story with food miles and sh1t could we work that angle.

Where were the IFA when all this was going on?

Oh ya they were at the zoo!

And as for board bia and our squeaky clean image, well I think that horse (sorry) has bolted.

bob charles

freedominacup wrote: »

You might be onto something bob, maybe push the date out a bit. This might say we'll be recounting the halcyon days of the teenies and twenties to our
grandkids as they struggle with declining markets and diminishing returns if they're mad enough to keep at what we're all commited to.

http://blogs.reuters.com/james-saft/2013/09/11/investing-for-peak-population/

Might be time to fully commit to clean and green. Less might well be more in the future.

Peak is a word, some amount of bullsh$t is talked about by so called experts

tabby aspreme

Farm organizations / Bord Bia spokespersons from now on should mention hormones / antibiotics /gm in every sentence concerning these imports to get it embedded in peoples heads that Irish meat is better, this is now a PR battle

Maudi

RaggyDays wrote: »

This is bad news for farmers here. Looks like we`ve been sold out by big business to get into Canada.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/stephen-harper-signs-eu-trade-deal-in-brussels-1.2101685

http://www.thestar.com/business/2013/10/17/eu_pact_could_affect_canadian_beef_cheese_drugs.html

If its anything like here they will substitute it for moose.

Maudi

RaggyDays wrote: »

This is bad news for farmers here. Looks like we`ve been sold out by big business to get into Canada.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/stephen-harper-signs-eu-trade-deal-in-brussels-1.2101685

http://www.thestar.com/business/2013/10/17/eu_pact_could_affect_canadian_beef_cheese_drugs.html

If its anything like here they will substitute it for moose.

Maudi

RaggyDays wrote: »

This is bad news for farmers here. Looks like we`ve been sold out by big business to get into Canada.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/stephen-harper-signs-eu-trade-deal-in-brussels-1.2101685

http://www.thestar.com/business/2013/10/17/eu_pact_could_affect_canadian_beef_cheese_drugs.html

If its anything like here they will substitute it for moose.

Suckler

tabby aspreme wrote: »

Farm organizations / Bord Bia spokespersons from now on should mention hormones / antibiotics /gm in every sentence concerning these imports to get it embedded in peoples heads that Irish meat is better, this is now a PR battle

I spoke with a bord bia rep on this forum about that very point.

It's a fine line when you enter that sort of PR game both sides can end up losing heavily; People could very easily associate all beef with hormones/antibiotics etc. All you could end up doing is embedding the idea that all beef is bad.

onyerbikepat

Suckler wrote: »

I spoke with a bord bia rep on this forum about that very point.

It's a fine line when you enter that sort of PR game both sides can end up losing heavily; People could very easily associate all beef with hormones/antibiotics etc. All you could end up doing is embedding the idea that all beef is bad.

Exactly, as I heard a retired polition say recently, no such thing as bad publicity. Opposite is true when it comes to food. Consumers are lazy. At the supermarket isles, Just as easy pick up a bit of chicken than a bit of beef.

rancher

blue5000 wrote: »

Showing my age here now, but I met a Canadian girl in 1989, and she was bitching about how Irish cow beef was flooding into Canada back then. I suppose what goes around comes around. The only reason we have a beef price of around 4.00yoyo / kg now is because we managed to keep S. american beef out.

Another thing, whatever tonnage the canadians can export to EU it will all be high value cuts of fillet and steaks, there won't be any mince or fores coming in. This will have an even bigger effect on our market.

It won't be too simple for an IFA delegation to go to canada and take a few photos of cowboys butchering a cow under a tree, like they did in S. America. These guys have their homework done, ffs they probably read this forum:o

Can we convince consumers that grass fed beef is better than maize and M&M fed beef?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_pLy7Gjlwwhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_pLy7Gjlww[/QUOTE]


Great beef farmers out there, growing the best of maize and soya, will be very hard to compete with.
The eating quality of the steaks over there is on a par with the best here.
Germany is paying the piper now and it seems that the beef industry is going to be sacrificed for them to get markets for german industry.

onyerbikepat

Here's the reason. Some serious lobbying done at the top European table I'd say.
http://www.producer.com/2013/04/feedlot-sector-in-trouble-in-western-canada/

tabby aspreme

onyerbikepat wrote: »

Here's the reason. Some serious lobbying done at the top European table I'd say.
http://www.producer.com/2013/04/feedlot-sector-in-trouble-in-western-canada/

interesting comments on that article, high price of grain not helping feedlots either

blue5000

tabby aspreme wrote: »

interesting comments on that article, high price of grain not helping feedlots either

Ya and cattle seem to be a bit scarce due to poor prices the last 2 years. I wonder wtf is going on, is someone softening us up for imports from S. America again? Only thing in their favour is a weakish canadian dollar, but that won't help Germany sell bmw's and mercs to Canada.

It seems these negotiations were going on for 4 and a half years, well done simple simon, what were you doing for the 6months earlier this year when Ireland had EU presidency, sorting out fekkin fish quotas with Iceland?
http://www.farms.com/news/eu-deal-big-deal-for-beef-68579.aspxhttp://www.farms.com/news/eu-deal-big-deal-for-beef-68579.aspx

bob charles

we should lobbying for a level playing, access to using the latest technology GM , Hormones, live strains beneficial yeasts, feed efficiency products that arent licenced here, equitable prices for drugs, I could go on

The man in red and black

Having grown up on a farm in Ireland, (originally dairy with some suckler, now all suckler) and now working as a vet in Ontario I can tell you the welfare standards on Irish farms are much better. How long is it since you could tie up a dairy cow in Ireland and leave her tied in her cubicle for a year to just pump out milk? Don't get me wrong there are great farms out here but you can't argue tie-stall farms are as welfare friendly as the Irish system.

The second problem I see is the inferior traceablility of beef here. Over here alot of farmers only tag animals once they are leaving the herd, similar to identifying pigs in Ireland I believe. I see this as something that will have to change if they are going to try assure the european consumer that they never put hormones into particular animals! In comparison to the Irish tagging system within 21 days of birth that looks stone-aged!

So I struggle to see how they'll make this a level playing field

Muckit

Animal welfare and husbandry will pay second fiddle in the voting 'steaks' to eating quality and value for money.

If Canadian meat tastes as good as that produced in Europe and if the price is better, then we're fecked!! It's all in the consumers hands at the end of the day and they'I vote by what they put in their basket or trolley at the supermarket.

The man in red and black

Muckit wrote: »

Animal welfare and husbandry will pay second fiddle in the voting 'steaks' to eating quality and value for money.

If Canadian meat tastes as good as that produced in Europe and if the price is better, then we're fecked!! It's all in the consumers hands at the end of the day and they'I vote by what they put in their basket or trolley at the supermarket.

To be fair my experience has been that the beef here in Ontario is nearly twice the price of Ireland. Same goes for anything dairy related. So it may not be as much of an issue as we might fear!

rancher

The man in red and black wrote: »

To be fair my experience has been that the beef here in Ontario is nearly twice the price of Ireland. Same goes for anything dairy related. So it may not be as much of an issue as we might fear!

Prices quoted earlier in a link on this forum for 2014 for finished Canadian animals appeared to be less than €1/lb or €2/kg liveweight or my maths is arseways.
Might be dearer in the shops alright

The man in red and black

rancher wrote: »

Prices quoted earlier in a link on this forum for 2014 for finished Canadian animals appeared to be less than €1/lb or €2/kg liveweight or my maths is arseways.
Might be dearer in the shops alright

Someone is making serious money in between so because the supermarkets charge a fortune for it meat. Though every second week they'll have various cuts on sale for 30-50% off so it pays to shop in bulk. Must ask some of the beef guys what they're getting paid for finished stock, we do mostly dairy work.

oldsmokey

mf240 wrote: »

What's the story with food miles and sh1t could we work that angle.

Where were the IFA when all this was going on?

Oh ya they were at the zoo!

And as for board bia and our squeaky clean image, well I think that horse (sorry) has bolted.

The IFA?? don't make me laugh...if i hear that numb-skull Henry Burns bleating once more about ' the factories depressing price and undermining confidence' I'll bate him...the same old rubbish week in, week out...what have they done for the beef guy...F. all.....the moneyed milking-man is their preferred choice...

freedominacup

oldsmokey wrote: »

The IFA?? don't make me laugh...if i hear that numb-skull Henry Burns bleating once more about ' the factories depressing price and undermining confidence' I'll bate him...the same old rubbish week in, week out...what have they done for the beef guy...F. all.....the moneyed milking-man is their preferred choice...

Who tf is the monied milking-man and what is the IFA supposed to have done for him?

RaggyDays

Or Monied Woman
I.E Whelan :D

Viewtodiefor

oldsmokey wrote: »

The IFA?? don't make me laugh...if i hear that numb-skull Henry Burns bleating once more about ' the factories depressing price and undermining confidence' I'll bate him...the same old rubbish week in, week out...what have they done for the beef guy...F. all.....the moneyed milking-man is their preferred choice...

Your dead right they couldn't give a monkeys ****e about the small guy! (Not just dairying by the way) In fact there focus on anything of substance has been totally lost, their only concern is holding onto the big sfp that their large farmer members/delegates receive everything else they talk is just spoof! I know plenty guys have not renewed their membership. They are a joke