Need advice about partner giving money to family member

LegacyUser

As I said, I need advice about my wife giving money to her family member
There is a lot to this so I want to not reveal some details for fear of revealing to someone who we are, although if she reads it she will know, not that Im ashamed, but for concern of inciting her.

Am I right or am I wrong and what can I do about it?
I recently discovered my wife gave a significant sum as far as Im concerned to a relative,
This immediate relative has always been bleeding my wife for money,
And over a year ago the person was given a significant amount more to help set them up and the idea was they would pay back in installments, later I heard they would never be able to pay it back, we dont have the money ourselves, its on overdraft and on credit cards and we are never able to get on our feet as by the time we do, this person is looking for money, we cant even make a dent in our credit cards despite paying the minimum amount. We live from month to month and my wife wont countenance any form of budgeting, I want rid of sky even though we barely watch it as we could get rid of the tv even for a while and save on not having to pay sky subscription and tv licence, but we need to make other huge cuts anywhere we can.

The recent amount I only discovered weeks after it happened, before I knew about it, I spoke with my wife and said that after being paid a few weeks ago our balance in our joint account were low and we needed to be careful for the next few weeks as we have need to start doing something about our credit card debts.
I asked her to log into her seperate bank account where we get the childrens allowance for our one child to see how much was there as a small amount comes out for a personal loan (of hers), at first she was refusing me access saying she didnt have the code, but I know she knows it, I insisted and this is where I discovered not only is she spending from that account when there is no money,its way overdrawn, but also that she took out large sums and gave them to a relative. She told me the person was desperate, but we are desperate, I was furious but stayed relatively calm and she said this is the reason she didnt tell me. We had a serious argument about this last year and agreed I would look after the finances and she would not keep secrets about debts, at the time it was she refusing to tell me about credit card debts and how much they were.

While the childrens allowance is used to help fund our overall costs, that is in part some of our costs are, which come from our joint account. Im specifically annoyed money from it has been taken as really, our childs allowance from the state isnt to fund her relatives inability to manage their finances, I can see where my wife has not learned is the same as her relative. Money, budgetting, just doesnt seem to be important to her, she just doesnt care.
This argument also occured previously not long before we were married and we agreed I would manage the finances and look after our child and as my wife has a good paying job she would bring home the pay. My wifes idea of paying credit card debt is to just pay the minimum off.
I forsee my whole future and my childs in debt and I regret marrying her now as I feel decieved, like I am in a relationship with someone thats on heroin or some form of addiction.
I have tried looking for work before but as Im the fulltime carer for our very young child it was agreed any job would only cover childcare and so not worth it, I dont have much time to look for a job or do anything now. I have suggested renting a spare room but my wife says she will walk out with our child if I do that, yet she wont consider any form of cutting back.
I just dont get it????
I contacted the relative by text as other forms of contact were refused, Her relative says it is none of my business as they loaned the money off the wife, and its nothing to do with me as its not my money, I owned my home before meeting her and she says the mortgages are nothing to do with her now, although she pays for them now and that was the agreement we made prior to being wed, and also with me staying at home to care for our child.
I think my wife does not want to appear to lose face, but we cannot afford to continually support another person, and while at sometimes this person is in dire need, they were helped to get on their feet, not only to support themselves but so they could help another family member who was also being supported, that person is also helped from time to time and Im not so concerned about that, but I am worried money is being secretly given.

Its going to reach the stage where we are in perpetual debt as my wife refuses to talk about finances ever, if its an evening after work shes tired, if its her day off she wont discuss it then and the weekend is for other things, so its never allowed, I suggested some form of counselling for us but she refuses saying she doesnt need it and will never attend such a thing. I feel this will be the end of things, the house will be lost and I will have limited access to see my child grow up or worse maybe none, she will pay to rent someone elses hom and maybe for a carer and at the end still have nothing? I dont understand, is there something I am missing, because it feels intentional.

Im afraid for my child that he will be in debt or a victim of it, that she will take away from me my child, that I will be unable to find work and be forced to sell our home possibly at the worst time to try repay debts and then not have anything.

I feel she is being irresponsible, what the hell can I do? can I really be wrong? It seems like she is doing this on purpose, we arent even married that long.

Honey-ec

Your relationship sounds like it's very close to being up sh*t creek, to be extremely blunt.

The issue here isn't your wife lending money to her relative; it's her attitude to money in general. Hiding debts from you, spending money without your knowledge, refusing to accept that you guys are in financial difficulty - these are all MASSIVE concerns.

The comment about your mortgage really concerns me - she pays it, but says it has nothing to do with her? You guys are MARRIED - in the eyes of the law, you hitched your financial wagons together the day you signed the marriage certificate. What's yours is hers, and what's hers is yours, including any debt she's running up.

Agreement on money issues is a fundamental tenet of any relationship, and should be thrashed out and agreed upon long before marriage, much the same way you'd talk about having children. A lot of couples tend to gloss over this, but the reality is that financial secrecy can do more damage to a relationship than infidelity. It sounds to me like you and your wife never really bothered having a frank discussion about your attitudes to money before you married. Ok, fine, no point crying over spilled milk. But you need to sit her down and have an extremely serious talk about the current situation now.

Don't let her evade it. Don't take any excuses. Make sure it's done at a time when nobody has any drink on board, and write a list of all the topics you want to cover so you can't be sidetracked at any stage.

Good luck with it, but I think you have some very difficult decisions ahead of you.

LegacyUser

I did try to talk to her numerous times prior to getting married,
I was aware she had some debt, but she always fobbed be off or said I was trying to control her, I am the idiot for continuing on, I didnt see it then. I didnt want to press her too hard, I felt I was in love still but even then it seemed like I would just be mean and like Im considering only money not long before our wedding.

It was only when she left some credit card bills laying around that I discovered how much and that was only one of the cards, she has 3 plus some other debit cards.
This was when I put her on the spot and for a few weeks she held out until I said I didnt think I could go through with things when she promised I would be the one to manage finances and that any requests for money I would be informed, she would work and I would mind our child.

I want to know, how much legal standing do I have if she diverts her wages and doesnt pay the mortgage, is she actually legally obligated to pay? or is it just an accepted practice?
She has threatened to walk out, would she still be obligated if she took our child?
We dont have money for me to a solicitor, is there legal aid, technically her pay is good, I couldnt qualify for any benefit previously based on us cohabitating, but our bills are so high, worst of all numerous credit card interest debt.

The main thing is, she point blank refuses to discuss it or anything related to money, she actually refuses to make plans regarding anything, still wants a new kitchen and thinks this is realistic (never going to happen), I dont know at what point its all going to bust before it dawns on her we are in the ****, and if I press the issue she says Im argumentative and thats why she says she wont talk about anything, I have become frustrated but never even outright annoyed.

Personally, I dont think there is any love on her part, am I wrong in thinking perpetual borrowing of money from her relative is taking the piss, its obvious isnt it??? I am told I dont care about my family when I say I wouldnt help in the same way because I cant, if I had the money fine, but perpetually?

Im thinking of seeking advice but dont know where to go, Im really annoyed about the childrens allowance being used for that purpose and wonder do I have any grounds on that basis.

There is never drink involved, I want to try and sit down and talk, but she refuses outright, We hardly drink at all and dont go out to drink, never really anything in the house to drink anyway.
I feel like Im married to someone that has a secret gambling addiction where money is just being thrown away. If we could get on top of the credit crads we could be ok in maybe 2-3 years but it will be 2-3 years of frugal budgetting, she wants to live life at any cost, I want us out of debt, maybe allow a little treat along the way.

wirelessdude01

inacorner wrote: »

She has threatened to walk out,

For what reason? Is it because you don't ye as a couple to be crippled by debt?

jdsk2006

Change your approach. Make an appointment wit mabs and insist she comes with you......sittin on that seat in frontvof the mabs advisor could leave pennies droppin all sides in her head.

May i also suggest you get yourself out there for a job.....your leaving yourself in a vunerable position as things are

LegacyUser

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

For what reason? Is it because you don't ye as a couple to be crippled by debt?

Not sure what you mean, if you mean we would appear cripplked by debt, then she probably doesnt want people to know, or she just doesnt care, she refuses to speak about it

When I brought it up, says she doesnt want anyone else living here, she gives other reasons too, she says she uses one of the back rooms herself for her things, the other is our sons room but he sleeps in our room anyway,
When we were going out and her living here, despite me needing the money, she declined to have other people live in the house, now she also says if she is paying the mortgage she wont have anyone here? or she will leave, and I presume thats a threat to not pay the mortgage.

She doesnt want to live with other people either, I think it would be known we are in a bad way and need or are stuck for money but I dont know because she just says she doesnt want to really..


cant do a multiquote so @jdsk2006
I think a MABS appointment will be a good idea, Im going to look into that, but I dont think she will attend if I tell her, I might have to set it up and turn up with her not letting her know what it is, but we aren't really speaking, Ive given up on her after doing the same as she did before, lying about debts,

She is on good pay, but its all gone on debts and interest on debts, she has suggested I would be worse off if she left but at this stage I hope she does.

I will try again for a job, but I dont think theres much out there, we'd be worse off with childcare, but I am going to start looking, difficult, our child is young and very demanding and needs fulltime attention.

Calhoun

Op, you have allot of restraint, walking out lol I don't know how you haven't kicked her out.

What she is doing is down right selfish plain and simple there are no if ands or bits about it.

You have a number of issues here that needs to be addressed, finances , communication and really working as a team. I would be pretty pissed if a member of my wife's family thought that loans to them from my wife was none of my business.

Don't take any excuses or threats to walk away, it should be you waking away not her.

I would suggest going to mabs ect like above but also maybe some counselling as the relationship is not to healthy.

LegacyUser

Calhoun wrote: »

Op, you have allot of restraint, walking out lol I don't know how you haven't kicked her out.

What she is doing is down right selfish plain and simple there are no if ands or bits about it.

You have a number of issues here that needs to be addressed, finances , communication and really working as a team. I would be pretty pissed if a member of my wife's family thought that loans to them from my wife was none of my business.

Don't take any excuses or threats to walk away, it should be you waking away not her.

I would suggest going to mabs ect like above but also maybe some counselling as the relationship is not to healthy.

Thanks for the response, Im relieved to hear someone thinks that a family member saying a loan has nothing to do with me is something they would see as a problem too but, I didnt want to kick her out, she said she would leave if I let the two back rooms, while Id like to resolve the problems, this has made me take a hard look at what her priorities seem to be, I thought it was our family then if we could help others but we arent in a position to help anyone.
I am annoyed at the threats to leave, her family member saying its none of my business and that Im the one with the problem,and the idea that this will never be fixed due to refusal to face up to it.
I have looked up MABs it will be monday before they are open again.

I have a feeling she will not be available to go, or will try say the mortgages arent hers, even the debt on my credit cards was to pay for items I was reluctant to think we needed, and our wedding as she had no available credit left on her cards,and I suspect her own credit rating is poor that getting a loan is not possible, she was declined by a credit union for missing payments on the existing personal loan, which is what pays out of the childrens allowance account.
I know Im an idiot, I allowed myself to be blinded by suggested good intentions for the future only for things to get worse. I should never have married this person and now, really I feel I want out, I dont think she will change, I suspect this is the real person.

Calhoun

inacorner wrote: »

Thanks for the response, Im relieved to hear someone thinks that a family member saying a loan has nothing to do with me is something they would see as a problem too but, I didnt want to kick her out, she said she would leave if I let the two back rooms, while Id like to resolve the problems, this has made me take a hard look at what her priorities seem to be, I thought it was our family then if we could help others but we arent in a position to help anyone.
I am annoyed at the threats to leave, her family member saying its none of my business and that Im the one with the problem,and the idea that this will never be fixed due to refusal to face up to it.
I have looked up MABs it will be monday before they are open again.

I have a feeling she will not be available to go, or will try say the mortgages arent hers, even the debt on my credit cards was to pay for items I was reluctant to think we needed, and our wedding as she had no available credit left on her cards,and I suspect her own credit rating is poor that getting a loan is not possible, she was declined by a credit union for missing payments on the existing personal loan, which is what pays out of the childrens allowance account.
I know Im an idiot, I allowed myself to be blinded by suggested good intentions for the future only for things to get worse. I should never have married this person and now, really I feel I want out, I dont think she will change, I suspect this is the real person.

Well the reason i said it is when you got married and even before that you guys to an extent became tied financially. If your both working and in the black its different, you pay the bills, do some stuff together and may put some money aside and then whats left you can spend on whatever. However if your in the red and only one of you is working you guys need to use the money pot to make sure your surviving and have a security for the future, all big monetary spends need to be discussed as one.

If one of you is making decisions no matter how honorable it seems to be to the detriment of your family it really needs to be questioned. I assume this is a brother or sister? She needs to understand they are still her family but now they are secondary, you and the child should be coming first.

She has the right to object to the two back rooms being rented, this is both of your home. However if she is acknowledging the house is her home i don't see why she is trying to say the mortgage isn't hers? Unless she would have you ask her for rent? What would then happen if you guys divorce and assets need to be split? i assume she will not want any part of the house?

As for the threats to leave, you have a right to be annoyed it looks like to me a classic emotional blackmail tactic, If you don't let me have my way ill leave. I would ignore this for now but also i would ask the question why is she saying this to me, could you be putting on so much pressure she has no where left to go but saying this? I am not excusing her behavior but is this normal for her?

One piece of advise OP, there is no doomsday scenario here. As bad as you think things could or will be in the future they are much worse scenarios or things that could happen. Your not an idiot for loving your wife and i would hope that you can take a step back to understand that your problem to an extent isn't the money, its more her and your own priorities. Some things to remember moving forward;

1. You both need to open up lines of communications a bit better so you don't get to this level of stand off;
2. She needs to understand that you and your baby are her primary responsibility, her family are secondary;
3. You both need to make decisions on large spends or even something as simple as the child benefit, you need to include her in this process. Excluding her probably isnt helping you. If i busted my ass all day working for our family income and wasn't trusted to spend it i might rebel also.
4. Finances are split down the middle, the mortgage, the credit cards are both of your debt. Don't spend time arguing over what the debt was for its there now you need to work on it
5. The house is your family home, you cannot just make decisions on moving people in even if it is in the best intentions at the same time she needs to understand shes not paying the mortgage for you as she owns the home also;
6. In a way the family member you spoke to was right, it was none of your business when speaking with them it should have been herself you had the discussion with.
7. Can you get a job? it would give you more control of the situation and take some pressure off of her.
8. Finally, don't be so hard on her. Are things that bad that you want to walk away from it? You have to remember you aren't working right now, so all the financial responsibility is on her. You both need to appreciate the value of you not working or you need to get a job to help ease the situation.

Hope this helps, a long answer but trying to open up and expand some of the topics you mentioned.

LegacyUser

Your partner is behaving like a selfish brat. However, it doesn't sound like you've ever properly communicated your views on her attitude to money, and you've gone from 0 to 60 in a very short space of time.

Her attitude to money is awful, and stupid. You three are the priority - any extended family are very much secondary. I can't believe that she's jeopardising your future in order to help/save face with an extended family member.

However OP, it seems to me that you've let her think that her behaviour is acceptable for years - and now youve done an about-turn, and you're coming down on her like a tonne of bricks. Of course she is behaving as she always has: 'justifying' it to you / fobbing you off / lying to you. The only difference is that this time, you're having none of it. I absolutely agree with you - but you've laid it on the line for the first time ever; and she's behaving as she always has - come out with the bull****, and ultimately get away with it.

Money is a big problem for you; but communication is a far bigger issue for you. You need to get to MABS / counselling, or else you are over. You are both very wrong in this scenario, in different ways.

LegacyUser

Set up a joint account, get the children's allowance paid into it, your mortgage coming out of it - and everything concerning your household going thru the joint account. This will at least give you more visibility of your joint finances.

Is she throwing her toys out of the pram because she feels like the sole breadwinner? Does she not understand that you've made a sacrifice to look after your child? Would she lodge money to your joint bills account to 'pay for' you being full time child minder?

She sounds awfully immature. And failing to realise that it's not 'her money', it's 'your money'. And that relative - I'd be putting them on my personal blacklist.

LegacyUser

Calhoun wrote: »

Well the reason i said it is when you got married and even before that you guys to an extent became tied financially. If your both working and in the black its different, you pay the bills, do some stuff together and may put some money aside and then whats left you can spend on whatever. However if your in the red and only one of you is working you guys need to use the money pot to make sure your surviving and have a security for the future, all big monetary spends need to be discussed as one.

If one of you is making decisions no matter how honorable it seems to be to the detriment of your family it really needs to be questioned. I assume this is a brother or sister? She needs to understand they are still her family but now they are secondary, you and the child should be coming first.

She has the right to object to the two back rooms being rented, this is both of your home. However if she is acknowledging the house is her home i don't see why she is trying to say the mortgage isn't hers? Unless she would have you ask her for rent? What would then happen if you guys divorce and assets need to be split? i assume she will not want any part of the house?

As for the threats to leave, you have a right to be annoyed it looks like to me a classic emotional blackmail tactic, If you don't let me have my way ill leave. I would ignore this for now but also i would ask the question why is she saying this to me, could you be putting on so much pressure she has no where left to go but saying this? I am not excusing her behavior but is this normal for her?

One piece of advise OP, there is no doomsday scenario here. As bad as you think things could or will be in the future they are much worse scenarios or things that could happen. Your not an idiot for loving your wife and i would hope that you can take a step back to understand that your problem to an extent isn't the money, its more her and your own priorities. Some things to remember moving forward;

1. You both need to open up lines of communications a bit better so you don't get to this level of stand off;
2. She needs to understand that you and your baby are her primary responsibility, her family are secondary;
3. You both need to make decisions on large spends or even something as simple as the child benefit, you need to include her in this process. Excluding her probably isnt helping you. If i busted my ass all day working for our family income and wasn't trusted to spend it i might rebel also.
4. Finances are split down the middle, the mortgage, the credit cards are both of your debt. Don't spend time arguing over what the debt was for its there now you need to work on it
5. The house is your family home, you cannot just make decisions on moving people in even if it is in the best intentions at the same time she needs to understand shes not paying the mortgage for you as she owns the home also;
6. In a way the family member you spoke to was right, it was none of your business when speaking with them it should have been herself you had the discussion with.
7. Can you get a job? it would give you more control of the situation and take some pressure off of her.
8. Finally, don't be so hard on her. Are things that bad that you want to walk away from it? You have to remember you aren't working right now, so all the financial responsibility is on her. You both need to appreciate the value of you not working or you need to get a job to help ease the situation.

Hope this helps, a long answer but trying to open up and expand some of the topics you mentioned.

I should have seen her coming, it was only after we moved in and were serious, when I started to find these debts out, she had a number of debts but refused to reveal how much they were, always she refused to discuss anything, I didnt want to walk away because I didnt feel it was about money or all about money, but her insistant refusal to let me know her situation, Ive asked and always had to let it go or it would get into her being annoyed with me.
Im annoyed at her, she has been very mean, saying horrible things really, just because I have put my foot down and asked the hard questions, she has told me today, I dont allow her to spend her own money, but I dont spend anything on myself either, she said she wanted new shoes? she has work shoes and loads of unused shoes in closets and boxes.
The plan was get married and then knuckle down and pay our bills, she's wanted a replacement kitchen, a new baby, a dog.
I know she works long and hard, I appreciate that but I thought we were on a joint plan not to remain in debt forever and this relative constantly making demands when the last demand for money was supposed to be the last one just makes me feel we are shortchanging our childs future. She agreed last year I would manage the budget as I said if she didnt reveal to me what her debts were before the marriage I couldnt go through with it, she was very upset and eventually told me, so she has agreed to it, I had already told her what my mortgage is and asked did she really want to be married as she would be the sole earner, if she didnt come on board, Id have had to rent out the house, but would have been ok with that. She said its what she wanted and we worked up some bills for our wedding and now she seems to be reneging on that, the plan was to pay off our debt, not pay the minimum and remain forever in debt.
She also says as technically the large sum of money went to her sister before we were married, then its none of my business even though we were engaged for a few years and only months from being married.

You have made good points, I dont want anyone in our family home really either, yet she fails to curtail serious money wastage, it will be difficult for me to get a job, let alone one with pay good enough to cover our childs care, she doesnt even want our child in care, she wants me to do the care.
She says I dont have the same connection with my siblings, I think thats unfair, they would not put me in a difficult position to ask for help, especially if I could not afford it. If they asked and it was something they werent always doing, then I would do my best, but if I knew it was another request in a long sequence of asking for money, then I would consult my wife and I would be wary to give it away when I actually didnt have it myself or it could affect my family, I certainly wouldnt be secretive about it.
Im annoyed I am being made to be the bad person, when I was horrified when I found her sister and my wife was willing to do this behind my back, I dissagre its not my business as we are up s hit creek already, she has been given enough help. My wife says, she knows what you are like now and is afraid to ask for more, I hope its true she wont ask, but my wife should have put her foot down and its unfair to suggest Im horrible when I havent been deceitful. I feel secondary to her family, its clear I am at the end of a long list of her priorities.
I dont want to be hard on her, I married her because I felt I loved her, this is a person I had to help with her finances as she was receiving letters about unpaid personal loans, I got her on track, no money, just organised her, she drove her car for months, nearly half a year I think, this was a few years back without insurance because the insurance company cancelled the policy because she didnt make sure she had enough money in her account and ignore their letters, I only found this out when making an enquiry and as we were engaged, I wanted to get a discount with the same company, only to be told they didnt insure her, after I pressed them for details they told me why even though they arent supposed to as I insisted she was insured with them.
She is a smart person, in a good job and on good money but money does not seem important to her and the consequneces of that I think can be serious, I grew up in a situation where we had very little partly due to the attitude of one person, and I dont want my child to be in the same situation because of a lack of concern, or as someone think its not important as it can have a serious knock on effect down the years.

Im sorry my replies arent brief, I really need to get this off my chest, she wont listen, I think we need counselling, she either refuses to go or says she will say Im a horrible person, she said something else another time I asked her to go to counselling, which would make me fear going myself, I need a job, and even though I want one and will start looking I know we will be worse off financially as what I saw was available before would never cover childcare.

LegacyUser

Abx wrote: »

However OP, it seems to me that you've let her think that her behaviour is acceptable for years - and now youve done an about-turn, and you're coming down on her like a tonne of bricks. Of course she is behaving as she always has: 'justifying' it to you / fobbing you off / lying to you. The only difference is that this time, you're having none of it. I absolutely agree with you - but you've laid it on the line for the first time ever; and she's behaving as she always has - come out with the bull****, and ultimately get away with it.

Money is a big problem for you; but communication is a far bigger issue for you. You need to get to MABS / counselling, or else you are over. You are both very wrong in this scenario, in different ways.

I want to reply to people, you have taken the time to respond and I appreciate the replies as I feel destroyed at the moment, when I try ask her stuff she smiles at our child who doesnt even understand just in the last few days says, you wont grow up like him, I will tell you all about him when you are older, or just raise her middle finger and smile at our child saying stuff like, no one likes you, directed at me. She refused to go to counselling. Just a few weeks ago before I even knew this was happening, she was saying she wanted another child?? I said how could we afford another? now she says she despises me and says she doesnt even want me to touch her? its completely contradictory.

@joint account
I had huge difficulty getting the joint account already earlier this year and there was arguments even though she agreed to it before, but we said, the childrens allowance going into the other account was for her personal loan and paying for a few small things for our son and her work lunches and if anything else was needed we'd top it up.
She keeps saying its her money and my house and mortgage, if I was working and she was caring for our child, I feel I would be ridiculed if I kept that as my position as we both agreed to get married.

LegacyUser

Joint account wrote: »

Set up a joint account, get the children's allowance paid into it, your mortgage coming out of it - and everything concerning your household going thru the joint account. This will at least give you more visibility of your joint finances.

I just thought of something, Earlier in the year when I was trying to sort out accounts and finances I contacted the child benefit section, I was responding to a letter we received, they flat out refused to speak to me even though I am marked on my childs birth cert as the father, they just told me it is always in the mothers name and they only speak to the mother, I dont know how that can be, I then had to persist to get my wife to answer the letter before they cut off child benefit?
I dont think she will transfer it over to the joint account and there will be a big argument and a long drawn out fobbing off before I am accused of being controlling.

wirelessdude01

You know what it sounds like he wants to control you. By having you at home doing the 'care' work she can always throw it back in your face about not having money. It is a marriage and as such you are meant to work together as a team.

Calhoun

inacorner wrote: »

I should have seen her coming, it was only after we moved in and were serious, when I started to find these debts out, she had a number of debts but refused to reveal how much they were, always she refused to discuss anything, I didnt want to walk away because I didnt feel it was about money or all about money, but her insistant refusal to let me know her situation, Ive asked and always had to let it go or it would get into her being annoyed with me.
Im annoyed at her, she has been very mean, saying horrible things really, just because I have put my foot down and asked the hard questions, she has told me today, I dont allow her to spend her own money, but I dont spend anything on myself either, she said she wanted new shoes? she has work shoes and loads of unused shoes in closets and boxes.
The plan was get married and then knuckle down and pay our bills, she's wanted a replacement kitchen, a new baby, a dog.
I know she works long and hard, I appreciate that but I thought we were on a joint plan not to remain in debt forever and this relative constantly making demands when the last demand for money was supposed to be the last one just makes me feel we are shortchanging our childs future. She agreed last year I would manage the budget as I said if she didnt reveal to me what her debts were before the marriage I couldnt go through with it, she was very upset and eventually told me, so she has agreed to it, I had already told her what my mortgage is and asked did she really want to be married as she would be the sole earner, if she didnt come on board, Id have had to rent out the house, but would have been ok with that. She said its what she wanted and we worked up some bills for our wedding and now she seems to be reneging on that, the plan was to pay off our debt, not pay the minimum and remain forever in debt.
She also says as technically the large sum of money went to her sister before we were married, then its none of my business even though we were engaged for a few years and only months from being married.

You have made good points, I dont want anyone in our family home really either, yet she fails to curtail serious money wastage, it will be difficult for me to get a job, let alone one with pay good enough to cover our childs care, she doesnt even want our child in care, she wants me to do the care.
She says I dont have the same connection with my siblings, I think thats unfair, they would not put me in a difficult position to ask for help, especially if I could not afford it. If they asked and it was something they werent always doing, then I would do my best, but if I knew it was another request in a long sequence of asking for money, then I would consult my wife and I would be wary to give it away when I actually didnt have it myself or it could affect my family, I certainly wouldnt be secretive about it.
Im annoyed I am being made to be the bad person, when I was horrified when I found her sister and my wife was willing to do this behind my back, I dissagre its not my business as we are up s hit creek already, she has been given enough help. My wife says, she knows what you are like now and is afraid to ask for more, I hope its true she wont ask, but my wife should have put her foot down and its unfair to suggest Im horrible when I havent been deceitful. I feel secondary to her family, its clear I am at the end of a long list of her priorities.
I dont want to be hard on her, I married her because I felt I loved her, this is a person I had to help with her finances as she was receiving letters about unpaid personal loans, I got her on track, no money, just organised her, she drove her car for months, nearly half a year I think, this was a few years back without insurance because the insurance company cancelled the policy because she didnt make sure she had enough money in her account and ignore their letters, I only found this out when making an enquiry and as we were engaged, I wanted to get a discount with the same company, only to be told they didnt insure her, after I pressed them for details they told me why even though they arent supposed to as I insisted she was insured with them.
She is a smart person, in a good job and on good money but money does not seem important to her and the consequneces of that I think can be serious, I grew up in a situation where we had very little partly due to the attitude of one person, and I dont want my child to be in the same situation because of a lack of concern, or as someone think its not important as it can have a serious knock on effect down the years.

Im sorry my replies arent brief, I really need to get this off my chest, she wont listen, I think we need counselling, she either refuses to go or says she will say Im a horrible person, she said something else another time I asked her to go to counselling, which would make me fear going myself, I need a job, and even though I want one and will start looking I know we will be worse off financially as what I saw was available before would never cover childcare.

I feel and hear your frustration, i hope you don't mind me offering a counter point to some of what you are saying. I would hate for you to come away from this and make a hasty decision.

The big question is do you want to and do you think you can move past this? If this is a yes you need to put all of what happened in the past behind you guys. In one way she is right as allot of the loaning was done before you were married it was none of your business but at the same time she has some neck that you paid for your wedding on credit because she gave out loans. However you did enable her to do this and the debt for the wedding is yours also.

From her comments and some of what you have shown on thread, you do come across as a little bit controlling. This maybe part of where your problem is coming from, as i said in my last post if i was sole earner and didn't feel i had some control over the household spend i would be very unhappy. Adding on top of this you contacting her sister directly you are digging yourself a hole.

I do appreciate how you were brought up probably has given you some insight into not what to do but do you think it could be driving you to be really extreme with her?

So where to from here? I would first explain what you have said above to us on this thread about your concern for the future and i would apologies to her and maybe to her sister about the loan. Yes you have a right to be mad but going to her sister directly was a bad move.

Secondly from what you have said its clear that 1. she doesn't want to give up control of the purse strings in the relationship and 2. you both are probably better off if you be a stay at home dad. Could you agree a set some to be paid to you on a monthly basis or when she gets paid that would cover the household expenses, the mortgage ( if its your mortgage then your renting the house to her at the price of the mortgage value ), your loans and a little something for yourself? the rest then goes to her to do with what she likes.

Third explain to her that as she wants to be in control of the finances that what ever she does going forward she will need to get the credit in her name or save, you can help her save it but you will not facilitate with more credit.

I know the above goes against what you believe in but i think you are holding on way to hard to this one, this is gone beyond the money and is now a control thing. If she wants to be in control of it then let her but there are stuff she needs to pay for first each month and you need to provide her with a number of what she needs to hand over to run your household.

dipdip

inacorner wrote: »

I want to reply to people, you have taken the time to respond and I appreciate the replies as I feel destroyed at the moment, when I try ask her stuff she smiles at our child who doesnt even understand just in the last few days says, you wont grow up like him, I will tell you all about him when you are older, or just raise her middle finger and smile at our child saying stuff like, no one likes you, directed at me. She refused to go to counselling. Just a few weeks ago before I even knew this was happening, she was saying she wanted another child?? I said how could we afford another? now she says she despises me and says she doesnt even want me to touch her? its completely contradictory.

It sounds like you are in an abusive relationship. Emotional, verbal and economic abuse.

At first I didn't understand why you wanted legal advice but actually now I think a solicitor should be your first stop. You need to find out where you stand legally, and you need to consider whether or not you can stay married to someone who is abusing you.

She has refused counselling so I don't know what other choices you have.

My heart goes out to you. Maybe have a look at http://amen.ie/ and speak to them for some advice. Take care and good luck.

dipdip

Read this article too. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_violence#Emotional

LegacyUser

@Calhoun
I dont think I am controlling, she has allowed her own debts to rack up, most of them long before I met her, and failed to meet the commitment to pay those and kept that a secret from the time we were engaged, even though we lived together before that, I helped her organise her finances and direct debits and ensure the correct amount was set aside, she drove around for months because she had her car insurance cancelled due to not paying it, then had to fork out the full amount in one go because of that, some insurers wouldnt even offer insurance as she had insurance cancelled for that reason.
I then found out about more debts prior to getting married, she cant or wont explain where thousands of euro of her pay went before we got married yet still has debts?, when I found out before our wedding, I nearly hit the roof, we had at that stage payed out on credit already for a wedding and she had left me in the dark about serious debt and I dont know when she was or if she was ever going to tell me, she did this at the worst time as my savings had run out and I could no longer contribute anything, but she promised me then, that she would not lie about debt again and had said she had told me about all debts, now about a year later, she is doing it all again.
Now despite her quite good pay, we can barely maintain our commitment to pay what we owe, giving money away just isnt possible, we cant help people if it puts us under, already getting letters about the mortgage being late.
I asked her after we put the initial deposit down for the wedding, was this what she wanted, the wedding and being married, even though it was a small and compared to what I have heard other people have spent, less expensive wedding with small numbers attending, she confirmed this was what she wanted, that she would be the sole breadwinner paying for the mortgage and my savings would be gone and Id be at home caring for our child,this was prior to spending the main amount, she said it was, it was only after spending a lot more on the wedding I found out she still had other serious debt, I knew she had some but thought it was nearly gone as any request to see it was declined, when I found out about the debt but didnt know the full figures, I said I wouldnt be able to continue unless she revealed everything and that if she was compeltely honest with me, it took over week for her to realise I was prepared to throw in the towel and ended in her being all teary saying she thought I would not marry her if I knew, she has also claimed at a number of times by not telling me, she wasnt lying as she never said anything, my opinion on any deception based on ommiting a serious fact is a lie.
I was upset and down yesterday, Im angry today, I feel deceived, she has tried to throw this back in my face by saying I am controlling and worse things but her ability to manage her (now our) finances are out of control (no control), I dont just have myself to think about, but our son. Its the lies more than the amount this time, and that it has happened again after she promised it was all revealed and would not happen again, if it wasnt for my son, I think I could only start making moves to ending this relationship, and I still feel I might have to, even though it is not something I ever wanted, she is a good person a lot of the time, but what she is doing tells me she doesnt really care or consider the consequences of what she is doing.
She has said some pretty horrible things to me too and I feel this is to divert attention away from what she has done wrong, she has told me now this will not happen again, she said that last year too, Im asking her for things to turn around in 3 months, I have to hold on until things are sorted for the sake of my son, I fear how his life will be if she is left in charge of managing the grubby but necessary financial side of planning for his life to give him the best opportunity, and in all this, her sister thinks it is not my business, I believe she knows the gravy train has ended and is feeding my wife with whatever horribleness to try and restart it, but if that happens again we will be over for certain.
In all this she continues to refuse my request again to go to counselling, why?? because there is printed proof of her failings at managing money, she thinks its unimportant, Im not happy it has to be, but burying our collective head in the sand about it only postpones a terrible inevitable, we have had a great opportunity with her good wages to provide the life for our son, that other people would be jealous of, but she is throwing that away by being secretive, lying and then failing to recognise or admit the problem.
Mismanaging money and her sister demanding handouts while having lived quite comfortably on help in the past herself.

thanks to other people that have replied too,
I am going to contact amen, I see they have counselling in their list of services, not sure if that is for both partners, I think we need it, in advance of the three month time I am trying to turn things around I am going to find out about marriage counselling too, if anyone has a link on that, please feel free to submit it, even anonomously.

dipdip

We are not allowed to recommend individual counsellors here, but Accord are an affordable and helpful marriage counselling organisation by all accounts.

LegacyUser

Calhoun wrote: »

I feel and hear your frustration, i hope you don't mind me offering a counter point to some of what you are saying. I would hate for you to come away from this and make a hasty decision.

In one way she is right as allot of the loaning was done before you were married it was none of your business but at the same time she has some neck that you paid for your wedding on credit because she gave out loans. However you did enable her to do this and the debt for the wedding is yours also.

Third explain to her that as she wants to be in control of the finances that what ever she does going forward she will need to get the credit in her name or save, you can help her save it but you will not facilitate with more credit.

I know the above goes against what you believe in but i think you are holding on way to hard to this one, this is gone beyond the money and is now a control thing.

I am glad you replied, I just dont agree with some of what you have said, but you have taken the time to respond, so I appreciate that, I dont want you to think I dont because it may appear Im dissagreeing with you, but her refusal to talk led me here, so I released some tension here, its not directed at you or anyone here.

The loans were from before we were married, but she never revealed them to me when we were engaged which was for a few years and even told me she would only tell me after we were married, that was too much to ask, thats when I said I wouldnt be able to go ahead with things, she made a promise to not do the same again, and now she has broken that promise.

She cant extend her credit as her history is so bad, we tried but she couldnt get a loan as she has no savings and I hope she cant as it will just end up worse, we cant save now as the debt is so bad, mostly the unsecured debt.

Its not a matter of control for me, she has proven she cant manage finances, if she cant, I have to or god knows where it will end.

LegacyUser

dipdip wrote: »

We are not allowed to recommend individual counsellors here, but Accord are an affordable and helpful marriage counselling organisation by all accounts.

Thats what Im looking for, I wasnt aware of them, I will look them up, if she wont go, I think I will go myself if thats allowed.
I think I have vented something here and its been a release valve, I need to go and see if this can be fixed.

Calhoun

inacorner wrote: »

I am glad you replied, I just dont agree with some of what you have said, but you have taken the time to respond, so I appreciate that, I dont want you to think I dont because it may appear Im dissagreeing with you, but her refusal to talk led me here, so I released some tension here, its not directed at you or anyone here.

The loans were from before we were married, but she never revealed them to me when we were engaged which was for a few years and even told me she would only tell me after we were married, that was too much to ask, thats when I said I wouldnt be able to go ahead with things, she made a promise to not do the same again, and now she has broken that promise.

She cant extend her credit as her history is so bad, we tried but she couldnt get a loan as she has no savings and I hope she cant as it will just end up worse, we cant save now as the debt is so bad, mostly the unsecured debt.

Its not a matter of control for me, she has proven she cant manage finances, if she cant, I have to or god knows where it will end.

No issues at all as I said I was trying to tease it out with you a bit so you can get your thoughts aligned, additionally I was trying to see if there were other means you could solve this rather than a split . At least from this discussion and other advise you have a plan going forward.

On the last point there are many ways to skin a cat and when I said put her in control I also said that you charge her a set amount each month like a creditor if ya get me to get things paid . She can be in charge all she wants but you have a set amount that needs to be secure going forward, maybe you could start with one of your credit cards and move it forward from there .

I hope this works out for you buddy, good look with the counselling .