St. Stephen's Green traffic - even worse than it should be?

Boulevardier

Some changes were made a couple of weeks ago to traffic arrangements at the corner of Stephen's Green / Merrion Row to facilitate Luas works.

For the first week or 2, the traffic did not seem significantly worse than usual.

This week however, there has been total gridlock in that area all morning, with huge volumes entering the Green from Hume Street going toward the Shelbourne and Dawson St, and another huge stream coming from Cuffe St / Stephens Green South.

My question is: Can the gridlock be entrirely explained by the predicted Luas works, or is there something else going on as well?

ballooba

Winter Retardation.

AlekSmart

Boulevardier wrote: »

Some changes were made a couple of weeks ago to traffic arrangements at the corner of Stephen's Green / Merrion Row to facilitate Luas works.

For the first week or 2, the traffic did not seem significantly worse than usual.

This week however, there has been total gridlock in that area all morning, with huge volumes entering the Green from Hume Street going toward the Shelbourne and Dawson St, and another huge stream coming from Cuffe St / Stephens Green South.

My question is: Can the gridlock be entrirely explained by the predicted Luas works, or is there something else going on as well?

A total shambles,caused largely by DCC's usual reluctance to sacrifice a handful of On Street Car Parking spaces,which sees parked cars on SSG East directly alongside the Site Fence reducing the traffic flow from 4 Lanes down to 1 (occasionally).

The entire Pantomine is repeated at the top of Dawson Street where Bus Eireann,Aircoach and Glendalough are forced to continue business as normal in competition with brewers drays and the rest directly opposite another Work Site Perimiter.

The best that can be said about the situation is that DCC are maintaining a proud tradition of absolute and total ignorance of what is occuring in their own City.

beauf

They have another bottleneck on cuffee street to St Stephens green. They have a bus wide cycle lane for no real reason, but as a result have the all the traffic coming on to stephens green restricted to one lane for about 300m. Huge delays for no reason. Most cars look at the cycle lane and think its a car lane because its so wide and ignore it. So the cycle lane achieves nothing for cyclists.


The only conclusion I came to the people coming up with this, either don't driver or cycle, or don't care. Of course a wet winter school day makes everything worse.

Boulevardier

This morning (Thurs) was almost back to its normal self - my 140 flew through in no time. Traffic volume was definitely lower today than it was on Tuesday, which makes me think some sort of diversion was in force the other days, though AA roadwatch never mentioned it.

Dawson St is not being kept clear of deliveries before 9am as it should be.

LXFlyer

On Tuesday Kildare Street was closed to traffic by the gardai due to the budget protests.

pclive

Molesworth street closed on Tuesday ahead of the budget protests. It was reported all AM on AA roadwatch reports. Kildare street remained open.

Also bear in mind that the new traffic management plan has not been completed. The right turn from SSG East to Merrion Row will not be possible for another number of weeks.

Scofflaw

lxflyer wrote: »

On Tuesday Kildare Street was closed to traffic by the gardai due to the budget protests.

Well, due to theoretical Budget protests, really, given nothing really happened.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Riskymove

It's also worth noting that a significant change occurred this week as the top of Kildare St./Green Junction was reduced to one lane

I think that is significantly delaying traffic getting through that Junction

AlekSmart

Boulevardier wrote: »

This morning (Thurs) was almost back to its normal self - my 140 flew through in no time. Traffic volume was definitely lower today than it was on Tuesday, which makes me think some sort of diversion was in force the other days, though AA roadwatch never mentioned it.

Dawson St is not being kept clear of deliveries before 9am as it should be.

Hear Hear to that Boulevardier !!

It is worth pointing out that the Centre City Delivery window extends from 0600 :eek: to 1100.....

The daily reality is of a steady flow of deliveries from around 0830,rising to a mad scramble of every known type of Commercial Vehicle from 1015 onwards.....:rolleyes:

Of course it is an equally valid point that,since neither Bus Atha Cliath or the NTA appear to see any benefit in a 24 hour trunk Route Bus Service,few of the businesses can get Staff in early enough to have the storerooms open for deliveries AT 0600....Food for thought ?

Boulevardier

The area was grossly over-policed on Tuesday. The Garda overtime bill for the day probably took 3% off GDP.

The Corpo don't seem to know what they are doing about the area on weekday mornings. No plans seem to have been made to minimise the effect on traffic flow of the Luas measures.

The same goes for Dublin Bus. The obvious thing to do, at least for the time being, would seem to be to route more buses from Rathmines via Camden St, but there is no sign that any temporary route changes are in prospect.

Perhaps their plan is that the 10% new year fare hike will mean everyone walking or cycling in?

pclive

There is a plan:
http://www.dublincity.ie/RoadsandTraffic/MajorTransportProjects/Pages/ProposedTrafficManagementworksonStStephensGreenEastandStStephensGreenNorth,Dublin2tofacilitateLUASBroombridge.aspx

LXFlyer

Boulevardier wrote: »

The area was grossly over-policed on Tuesday. The Garda overtime bill for the day probably took 3% off GDP.

The Corpo don't seem to know what they are doing about the area on weekday mornings. No plans seem to have been made to minimise the effect on traffic flow of the Luas measures.

The same goes for Dublin Bus. The obvious thing to do, at least for the time being, would seem to be to route more buses from Rathmines via Camden St, but there is no sign that any temporary route changes are in prospect.

Perhaps their plan is that the 10% new year fare hike will mean everyone walking or cycling in?

Camden Street is bad enough as it is without more buses being added to it.

Boulevardier

I don't agree LX. In the morning, I always prefer an 83 or 65B to a 14 or 15 when I see one. It may not be the same later in the day, but in the morning rush, Camden St is definitely a quicker way into town.

LXFlyer

Boulevardier wrote: »

I don't agree LX. In the morning, I always prefer an 83 or 65B to a 14 or 15 when I see one. It may not be the same later in the day, but in the morning rush, Camden St is definitely a quicker way into town.

Yes but you don't plan bus routes on the basis of one time of the day - they tend to be planned on the basis of where people wish to go to, which for many people is the St Stephen's Green area and the CBD.

The George's Street and Camden Street route is a nightmare later in the day - in both directions.

AlekSmart

lxflyer wrote: »

Yes but you don't plan bus routes on the basis of one time of the day - they tend to be planned on the basis of where people wish to go to, which for many people is the St Stephen's Green area and the CBD.

The George's Street and Camden Street route is a nightmare later in the day - in both directions.

All valid points,but the issue in this specific case is why DCC and the Gardai appear to believe that City-Centre Luas BXD works can be carried out whilst maintaining a facade of normality ?

This is a HUGE Civil Engineering project now encroaching into the narrowest and least traffic friendly sections of the City.

I suggest that not a shovel should have been turned in advance of a MAJOR Traffic Management programme being implimented from Day 1,with appropriate extra Public Transport provision to cater for displaced car users in the Central Area.

At the very least the Council require to delete ALL on-street parking spaces on the approaches to openings and other caged off areas.

The focus should be on maintaining the flow of existing Public Transport Options and then adding extra capacity as required.

Currently,DCC's position appears to be one of maintaining things as close as possible to "Normal" for as long as they can get away with it,supported by a Garda policy of semi-invisibility and non-intervention (Budget Day excepted).

Indeed,I would also question the methodology involved in the actual BXD construction process,as it appears to be the standard,erect the barriers,deliver engineering equipment and then allow to settle for a prolonged period before beginning actual work on a Monday-Friday Office-Hours basis.

The exhortations of Senor Manuel Melis,overseer to the construction of the Madrid Metro,appear to have been well and truly ignored as being foreign to our national traditions.

"Agree a plan before starting,Keep that plan simple,and once commenced keep the process engaged 24/7/365 until complete"

Very sound and competent advice methinks,but our professionals obviously exist at alevel far above Senor Melis ?

LXFlyer

I totally agree Alek - the full plan in terms of both temporary and permanent bus route changes should have been required to form part of the planning process so that people could properly judge the project on the impact on their daily commute.

ArmaniJeanss

Baggot St/Stephens Green East junction.

I know its currently 'mid-phase' at the moment, but I think it's currently a dangerous junction for pedestrians the way they have it.
Large amounts of people are getting off various buses at the first stop in Baggot St/MerrionRow just past the Shelbourne as they've always done, and immediately look to cross the road.

In order to do this 'legally' you now have to wait for two sets of unlinked pedestrians lights, the first brings you from the Merrion Row side to a little island, the second brings you from the island to Stephens Green East. Its a journey of about 4 metres as the crow flies yet the unlinked lights turn it into a timesink.

Many people just cut across as before ignoring the rules, however previously there was only slowmoving traffic (generally buses) coming from Kildare Street, now however there is fast moving cars and vans coming around the turn from Stephens Green East.
I think the current setup is a serious pedestrian accident waiting to happen.

(Can blame the pedestrians for jaywalking obviously, but yet we unfairly imo seem to be the ones who have lost most by the new layout).

Solution imo is simply to move the pedestrian lights a few metres eastward so pedestrians only have to cross one set of lights to cross a 4 metre road.
(Or else get rid of the busstops at this junction altogether).

stop

Also, why has the right turn from ssg north to ssg east not been reinstated yet? Nothing seems to have happened here for a while..

Scofflaw

stop wrote: »

Also, why has the right turn from ssg north to ssg east not been reinstated yet? Nothing seems to have happened here for a while..

There's a variety of things not yet done, like moving the city bikes onto Hume Street. I see their base camp on Hume Street got some deliveries this morning, so maybe there's another big push coming, and it'll all be over by Christmas.

cordially,
Scofflaw

LXFlyer

They had to install new signals at the Hume Street/SSG East Junction, and remove the pedestrian signals further along SSG East.

They are now working on the traffic island on SSG North at Kildare Street, and have to move the Dublinbikes station from SSG East onto Hume Street and then finally widen the contra-flow bus lane south of Hume Street to two lanes.

After all that is done, I'd expect the short contra-flow lane between SSG North and Hume Street to finally come into use, and the detour via Merrion Row, Ely Place and Hume Street to finish.

VG31

Does anyone know when the bus diversions will be finished?

Boulevardier

On a related point, is there any mechanism by which we citizenry can send suggestions or requests to DCC's traffic department on things like traffic light timings or positions?

LXFlyer

VG31 wrote: »

Does anyone know when the bus diversions will be finished?

Read my post again - when all that work is completed.


We don't know when that will be as yet!

LXFlyer

Boulevardier wrote: »

On a related point, is there any mechanism by which we citizenry can send suggestions or requests to DCC's traffic department on things like traffic light timings or positions?

Presumably to the address below (from the DCC website):


Dublin City Council
Roads and Traffic Department
Floor 6, Block 2
Civic Offices
Wood Quay
Dublin 8


Tel: (01) 222 2257
Fax: (01) 222 2190
Email: traffic@dublincity.ie

kryptonmight

I hate the way the bus has to take Baggot St and Hume St now. I took the 46a the other night and it took something like 15-20 minutes to get from D'Olier st to the top of Leeson St. Although I guess that is more due to all the traffic lights and bus stops every 100m.

stop

lxflyer wrote: »

After all that is done, I'd expect the short contra-flow lane between SSG North and Hume Street to finally come into use, and the detour via Merrion Row, Ely Place and Hume Street to finish.

Looking at it today, there is very little work to be done to open up the turn from SSG North to SSG East, very strange it has been left this long.

stop

The right turn from ssg north to ssg east finally opened up over the last few weeks.

Badly needs a(n enforced!) yellow box though to keep traffic turning from ssg east to merrion row out of the way of buses!

Scofflaw

Not sure why the pedestrian light across the top of Hume Street is non-functional, but it doesn't seem to be. Lit alright, but never goes to green man.

cordially,
Scofflaw

cython

stop wrote: »

The right turn from ssg north to ssg east finally opened up over the last few weeks.

Badly needs a(n enforced!) yellow box though to keep traffic turning from ssg east to merrion row out of the way of buses!

Yellow box will do very little when the drivers on SSG east already plough past the stop line on a red light anyway (indicating an ignorance of and/or disregard for road markings in general - overshooting the line is a penalty point offence IIRC). Traffic coming from SSG east will, by the nature of the junction, be turning right to exit the junction and so would be entitled to enter the box if they have a green light. Most of the disruption I have seen there comes from drivers not stopping in the correct location (i.e. overshooting the car stop line, and sometimes even the bicycle advance stop area!), and thus reducing the space available to buses to complete their turn.

Scofflaw wrote: »

Not sure why the pedestrian light across the top of Hume Street is non-functional, but it doesn't seem to be. Lit alright, but never goes to green man.

cordially,
Scofflaw

I beg to differ, as I have walked across Hume Street with a green man showing at that very crossing several times in the last few weeks, since it's on my way to Pearse Station from work.

beauf

This used to my one of my frequent routes, I've kinda stopped using due to the delay here as traffic backs up constantly.

Scofflaw

cython wrote: »

I beg to differ, as I have walked across Hume Street with a green man showing at that very crossing several times in the last few weeks, since it's on my way to Pearse Station from work.

That's interesting - I go that way several times a day, and haven't seen the green man showing for at least the last couple of weeks. The one across the Green itself is working fine.

I'll be passing it again in the next half an hour...[EDIT]yep, no green man.[/EDIT]

cordially,
Scofflaw

cloud493

Even without the diversion, its still taking a while. I got the 140 to rathmines from D'olier street, took 35 minutes. Could have walked it faster.

AlekSmart

What is perhaps most notable about the Luas BXD,SSG-O Connell St corridor is the strong sense that the City "Authorities" have NO actual Traffic Management plan in place to accompany the work.

The situation along Dawson Street is,at best,dangerous during an ordinary working day.

However in the evenings and at week-end I contend that these streets well exceed any reasonable persons definition of a Safe Environment.

The lack of ANY dedicated Garda or Traffic Warden presence along the corridor,coupled with the refusal of the RPA/DCC to pro-actively segregate pedestrian and vehicular traffic along the most dangerous stretch (SSG North-Molesworth St) should be resulting,IMO,in enforcement action by the RSA or the Health & Safety Authority against the City Manager and the CEO of the RPA (As the authority with Liability for the actual work).

It is highly noteworthy that,for the Trinity Ball,significant Pavement Edge barriers were erected at critical points,to good effect...The actual infrastructure looked as if it had been though through and applied by somebody with professional levels of understanding and commonsense,rather than the "enthusiastic amateur" appearance which currently envelops the BXD project operations.

The BXD "gang" appear to be proceeding on the basis that "if we stick at it,we can get it finished before somebody gets killed".

The can be no excuse for the dogged insistance on maintaining the Status-Quo in the face of such massive disruption,when best-practice and commonsense screams otherwise.

pclive

Try pressing the button Scofflaw

LXFlyer

cloud493 wrote: »

Even without the diversion, its still taking a while. I got the 140 to rathmines from D'olier street, took 35 minutes. Could have walked it faster.

Well it would help if you put that statement into context by at least stating what time of the day it was and what part of Rathmines (it's a big place!).

cloud493

11 in the morning isn, maybe 10.55. And the 140 doesn't go that far into rathmines so :P the stop outside aldi, don't know the number of it.

Scofflaw

pclive wrote: »

Try pressing the button Scofflaw

Strangely enough, I have tried that.

cordially,
Scofflaw

LXFlyer

cloud493 wrote: »

11 in the morning isn, maybe 10.55. And the 140 doesn't go that far into rathmines so :P the stop outside aldi, don't know the number of it.

That is very unusual - in my experience it never takes that long.

There must have been a serious traffic jam somewhere en route to cause that sort of delay.

Boulevardier

The 8.05 140 from Rathmines used to appear like clockwork. In the last 2 weeks it has become completely unreliable.

The lady on the DB phone line says that this is a knock-on of earlier traffic delays.

cython

Scofflaw wrote: »

That's interesting - I go that way several times a day, and haven't seen the green man showing for at least the last couple of weeks. The one across the Green itself is working fine.

I'll be passing it again in the next half an hour...[EDIT]yep, no green man.[/EDIT]

cordially,
Scofflaw

Green man sighted on Monday evening at 17:57. Pretty sure I would have seen it sooner had I not been off work and away for the intervening week.

AlekSmart

Significant Traffic Management issues now developing at this location.
Drivers heading for SSG North/Dawson Street are increasingly reluctant to merge into the correct (single) left turn lane.

Instead they head(at speed) down the two right-turn lanes,all the way to the last possible merge point before forcing their way across onto the left lane.

The fact that a SOLID WHITE LINE is in place after the Hume Street Junction appears irrelevant to these people,but since the authorities appear oblivious to the situation theybhave created,why worry ??

I would see an urgent requirement for a series of "Floppy Bollards" as were used successfully at the top of Kildare Street,and which,had somebody bothered to study Driver Behavioural patterns,would have prevented the nonsense which we currently have to endure.

The incredible faith which Irish Roads and Traffic professionals place in Solid Bordered Hatched Resevations is IMO seriously misplaced and needs reviewing ASAP.

Anybody who has ever attempted a bit of "Drovering" will know that animals in transit require strong and definite guidance in terms of sideboards,creels and barriers to ensure a safe journey.......we humans tend to have similar requirements

Scofflaw

cython wrote: »

Green man sighted on Monday evening at 17:57. Pretty sure I would have seen it sooner had I not been off work and away for the intervening week.

Yeah, it's back now alright. Wasn't for a while - maybe a week or fortnight.

cordially,
Scofflaw

punisher5112

The works been carried out on Dawson St. are dangerous and took over 15 minutes the other night to clear there was 4 lanes made to get into the single lane to enter Dawson St. and then had people falling off the path and just walking out in front the road is so narrow and then the taxis were just acting like there were no works and that there rank was still there.

12 at night and never have I seen traffic like that even at the worst time of the day.

AlekSmart

punisher5112 wrote: »

The works been carried out on Dawson St. are dangerous and took over 15 minutes the other night to clear there was 4 lanes made to get into the single lane to enter Dawson St. and then had people falling off the path and just walking out in front the road is so narrow and then the taxis were just acting like there were no works and that there rank was still there.

12 at night and never have I seen traffic like that even at the worst time of the day.

+1 !

The manner in which the City Council,Gardai,RPA and RSA have been allowed to wash their hands of this travesty cannot go unaddressed.

These agencies appear to believe that their responsibility for Public Safety exists only during the hours of work on the BXD site.

I most certainly does not end there....the manner in which the Dawson Street works have been carried out,in terms of Public Safety,is I would suggest worth the Heath & Safety Authority taking a few Executive Engineering types to court on...However this,I concede,would be unthinkable for an Irish Administrative Body.

The Admiral Nelson eyepatch approach is just far simpler in the long run....unless somebody gets killed in the meantime,whereupon the usual witchunt would be put in place to find a suitable minion to blame !