Notice period

Leogirl

I have a tenant renting a room in my house. He is only there a couple of months but has to move for personal reasons. We hadn't signed a lease but am I still entitled to 28 days notice? Hes only given me a little over a week & I'm unsure of the usual conditions here. Is he entitled to his full deposit back considering he has not given a months notice?

djimi

There are no legal conditions here; he is a licensee and as such none of the usual rules apply. The general consensus seems to be that with a licensee the notice period would equal the rental period (ie if they pay by the week then they give a weeks notice), but there is nothing legal to back this up. In reality, he is entitled to his full deposit back regardless of the notice given; the only real grounds you would have for keeping any of it would be to repair damage or cover unpaid bills.

Leogirl

He pays by the month & we had a verbal agreement on the notice so I'm hoping he'll stick to it. There will be bills to take from the deposit anyway.

Lesson learned, I'll make sure to have a written agreement in place next time :-(

djimi

Im not sure that a written agreement would hold much weight either; as far as rental law goes this sort of arrangement does not exist. The person is little more than a guest in your home, who happens to pay you a few quid for the privilage.

the_syco

Giving a licensee rights will end up biting you in the ass, imo.

Leogirl

Well I can see now that I've been a bit too easy going but I don't want to be nasty & hold the deposit even though hes left me in the lurch a bit. I'll try & find some fair way for both of us.

wonski

Since he has to move for personal reasons, the fair way would be to let him go. Not saying personal reasons are way out of any responsibilities, but week notice should suffice in this case. Agree a reasonable amount to be deducted for final bills and that should be it.

odds_on

djimi wrote: »

Im not sure that a written agreement would hold much weight either; as far as rental law goes this sort of arrangement does not exist. The person is little more than a guest in your home, who happens to pay you a few quid for the privilage.

And why would a legally binding licensee agreement not hold much weight?

djimi

Legally binding in what way? (Im not being smart, I wasnt 100% certain hence he saying I wasnt sure; its not covered by the RTA so what covers it legally?)

The_Morrigan

djimi wrote: »

Legally binding in what way? (Im not being smart, I wasnt 100% certain hence he saying I wasnt sure; its not covered by the RTA so what covers it legally?)

I would assume contract law, but it would have to then be drafted/ reviewed by a solr to ensure it is in accordance with Irish law and not just a worthless piece of paper.

djimi

Fair enough. I didnt think that a contract would have much legal bearing in a licensee situation (Im fairly sure I read a couple of times that it wouldnt), but as I said I wasnt 100% certain.

I presume the home owner could write pretty much whatever conditions they want into such a contract?

The_Morrigan

djimi wrote: »

Fair enough. I didnt think that a contract would have much legal bearing in a licensee situation (Im fairly sure I read a couple of times that it wouldnt), but as I said I wasnt 100% certain.

I presume the home owner could write pretty much whatever conditions they want into such a contract?

You can write anything you wish into a contract, chances of anyone signing it are slim though in this situation.

odds_on

The_Morrigan wrote: »

I would assume contract law, but it would have to then be drafted/ reviewed by a solr to ensure it is in accordance with Irish law and not just a worthless piece of paper.

You can write anything you wish into a contract, chances of anyone signing it are slim though in this situation.

There being no law (that I know of) for licensees, it shouldn't be too difficult, to write a licensee agreement.

However, as Morrigan says, the more the landlord puts into the agreement, the more difficult to find a licensee to sign. One of the principles of the rent a room scheme is that it is a simple process and normally a set of a few house rules should be sufficient.

The "norm", not legislation, with notice for landlords/licensees is that the notice period is based on the rental period, rent paid monthly = one month's notice; rent paid weekly = one weeks notice.

IMHO, the landlord is entitled to retain the deposit should he wish to do so but, again IMO, provided he stated that one month's notice was required on terminating the oral agreement.

In my own case, my landlord stated that one month's notice was required - though he did add that the deposit could be used for the last month's rent. If and when I leave, I will confirm this with him.

djimi

odds_on wrote: »

IMHO, the landlord is entitled to retain the deposit should he wish to do so but, again IMO, provided he stated that one month's notice was required on terminating the oral agreement.

How would a landlord have even a hope of enforcing such an arrangement?

Actually, in this situation, if the lodger has a grievance, who do they take it to? The small claims court is it?

odds_on

djimi wrote: »

How would a landlord have even a hope of enforcing such an arrangement?

Actually, in this situation, if the lodger has a grievance, who do they take it to? The small claims court is it?

An agreement as regards the deposit is basically in the landlord's hands (or in his bank!).

Where there is a financial grievance, the licensee (or landlord) would have to make a claim via the courts. Just as a landlord renting to a tenant would ultimate have to do is he is awarded a claim against a tenant who does not abide by a PRTB decision - so much for the powers of the PRTB (not to mention the speed with which they handle claims).

Where there is no financial claim, I don't know what the licensee could do, other than leave - but who would want to live in a house where they are not wanted? Though, there are some licensees (and tenants) who will put up with a situation because the price is right and they don't want to rock the boat.

One of the main principles of the rent a room scheme or renting a room in the owner's own house is that the owner rules the roost and the licensee is only allowed to stay there as long as the landlord is happy with the way the licensee lives in the house.

Again, in my own situation, the landlord has his own living room - thus, us licensees don't see him and his visitors very much. However, he has "banned me from cooking a certain type of burger because in his opinion, it leaves a terrible smell in the kitchen and circulates to a lesser degree in the rest of the house! OK, his house, his rules and that is one I can accept.

djimi

Yeah no it was a financial grievance that I meant (say the landlord decides to keep the deposit for no reason). Would it be the small claims court, or the local court (or whatever its called)?

odds_on

djimi wrote: »

Yeah no it was a financial grievance that I meant (say the landlord decides to keep the deposit for no reason). Would it be the small claims court, or the local court (or whatever its called)?

Yes, small claims court up to a certain amount - possible 5k, I'm not sure of the exact amount. Higher amounts, higher courts.

HardyEustace

I've had one or two people chance their arm on this.

Ask yourself this-if you wanted to him to vacate the room, how much notice would you give/he expect? I'm pretty sure that the answer would be a month as the rent is paid on a monthly basis.

Thus, I would expect a month's notice. Don't settle for any less.

Next time, just be sure to state this firmly and clearly when you are screening people for the house.

Leogirl

Thanks everyone for the replies.

Ok - as far as we agreed, a months notice would be given as payment is made on a monthly basis. Deposit could be used for final months rent if they wanted. I have had previous renters & this was always the case & they all stood by the agreement - as would I. I get the impression that there is no "set" rules on this, just a common agreement that rental period would equal notice required, from both parties. We do get on quite well & I think we should be able to come to a fair arrangement - maybe 50/50 as he only gave half the agreed notice.

Regarding the written agreement with next person- I was planning to have it checked over by a solicitor. Theres no way I'd be putting in a lot of clauses - once the rent payment date, notice period & the usual about damages were covered - I'd be happy enough. I prefer an easygoing arrangement but I also want to be covered legally/financially.

The_Morrigan

Leogirl wrote: »

Thanks everyone for the replies.

Ok - as far as we agreed, a months notice would be given as payment is made on a monthly basis. Deposit could be used for final months rent if they wanted. I have had previous renters & this was always the case & they all stood by the agreement - as would I. I get the impression that there is no "set" rules on this, just a common agreement that rental period would equal notice required, from both parties. We do get on quite well & I think we should be able to come to a fair arrangement - maybe 50/50 as he only gave half the agreed notice.

Regarding the written agreement with next person- I was planning to have it checked over by a solicitor. Theres no way I'd be putting in a lot of clauses - once the rent payment date, notice period & the usual about damages were covered - I'd be happy enough. I prefer an easygoing arrangement but I also want to be covered legally/financially.

You need to seek legal advice on the contract, unfortunately you can't just throw anything down as there are legal requirements for the proper formation of a contract.
Personally I think a contract for a rent a room scheme is a waste of time as both parties should have equal bargaining power when it comes to the contract, and it's unlikely that any homeowner is going to negotiate a contract with a tenant and incur the costs associated with it.

Leogirl

The_Morrigan wrote: »

You need to seek legal advice on the contract, unfortunately you can't just throw anything down as there are legal requirements for the proper formation of a contract.
Personally I think a contract for a rent a room scheme is a waste of time as both parties should have equal bargaining power when it comes to the contract, and it's unlikely that any homeowner is going to negotiate a contract with a tenant and incur the costs associated with it.

That was kind of what I thought too but I don't like the idea that I have no rights at all really. I was going to get legal advice on it first. I don't have any rules really apart from rent payment date & the notice period and everyone has been happy to stick to a verbal agreement so far. This is the first time I've had to worry about refunds etc. I think we'll be able to come to an agreement & I will look for legal advice before letting to the next person.

The_Morrigan

Leogirl wrote: »

That was kind of what I thought too but I don't like the idea that I have no rights at all really. I was going to get legal advice on it first. I don't have any rules really apart from rent payment date & the notice period and everyone has been happy to stick to a verbal agreement so far. This is the first time I've had to worry about refunds etc. I think we'll be able to come to an agreement & I will look for legal advice before letting to the next person.

Unfortunately you don't really have any rights, neither does the lodger.

odds_on

Leogirl, sending you a PM. check your inbox.

The_Conductor

odds_on wrote: »

Leogirl, sending you a PM. check your inbox.

Please keep communication onthread, insofar as is practicable. Aside from anything else- perhaps it would be educational for other forum users also.

odds_on

The_Conductor wrote: »

Please keep communication onthread, insofar as is practicable. Aside from anything else- perhaps it would be educational for other forum users also.

Just check with the OP if she wanted some further information and as she did, I sent a copy of a Licensee Agreement, some house rules and a letter of introduction setting out certain matters.

odds_on

The_Morrigan wrote: »

Unfortunately you don't really have any rights, neither does the lodger.

I beg to differ. An owner occupier has all the rights in the world. It is the owner's house and home and a licensee is only there at the invitation of the owner. That invitation may be withdrawn at any time. It is the licensee who doesn't really have any rights. An owner new to renting will not be aware of certain implications of having to live with someone who has not grown up with the owner's life style, home keeping (cleaning, loud TV radios etc.) and may have to introduce "rules" for a licensee. Furthermore, a licensee has no exclusive use of any part of the owner's property, no even the licensee's bedroom.

If a licensee abides by the rules as set out by the owner of the home all usually goes well and provided the owner and licensee live a compatible life style.

I have lived with two different owners in the last 18 months and have got on very well with both. My current landlord banned me from cooking a certain type of 6 oz burger (very tasty!) as he said it left a terrible smell in the kitchen area. OK, no problem, it is his house not mine.