The right wing truth bubble

20Cent

There is a very interesting Ted talk by Eli Pariser called beware of online filter bubbles. His contention is that personalisation of content we view online is creating a filter that results in us just seeing what we want to see. Algorithms used by google, yahoo, facebook etc filter out opinions contrary to our own, an unintended consequence of this is that it doesn't challenge or broaden our worldview.

There seems to be a similar thing happening with conservative media outlets which are telling their viewers what they want to hear instead of giving them the information needed to make informed decisions.

Some examples of this off the top of my head but there are many more:

Obama is a Muslim, Socialist, the whole birth cert debacle.
The "you didn't do that" comment, it is perfectly clear what Obama was saying yet it was taken as meaning something totally different. There was even a day of the republican conference where that was a theme. A comment taken out of context and made mean what they wanted it to mean.
Obama's win came as a shock to conservatives but in reality any objective viewer could have seen Obama was due to win. Conservative polls all had Romney to win yet Nate Silvers who predicted every state correctly was constantly slagged off by conservatives because he wasn't saying what they wanted to hear.
Benghazi was some big issue in the right wing media particularly that Obama didn't call it terrorism. There is video of Obama in the Rose garden calling it terrorism hours later but this is not to be believed. The talking point v's reality.
Conservative "think tanks" push out the view that there is no man made global warming despite peer reviewed actual science that says the opposite.
The American public are blaming Obama for the shutdown when every poll is showing approval ratings for republicans going down and Obamas going up.

Liberals and democrats have the same bubbles but the problem for conservatives imo is compounded by two issues, the "everyone is against us" issue and the lack of self criticism.

The conservative view is that the media, entertainment and universities are all against them so nothing they say can be trusted. They come at issues from a defensive position. Instead of acknowledging facts or scientific consensus they think it is a conspiracy against them. They just keep repeating their own facts until it is believed to be true but fortunately reality doesn't work that way.

What is called the left in the US will criticise their own side all the time. This is a healthy thing to do. Obama's first debate was seen as a disaster and he was rightly criticised for it and he upped his game for the next two. On the other hand no matter what wacky comment is made by a conservative they refuse to criticise it. Romneys 47% comment, the rape comments, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck. They are doing themselves a disservice by doing this as it means that changes won't be made and it turns off the swing voter. Whenever something goes wrong for conservatives they blame someone else or take a defensive position.

Instead of acknowledging issues republicans are retreating further into their bubble rejecting object reality. There is no incentive to say stop we are alienating a lot of possible voters here. The tea party fringe have safe seats so can shout whatever they want and be sure of getting large donations from benefactors like the Koch brothers. Changing attitudes and demographics are ignored, unpopular talking points are kept. This is preventing them to adapting to change. But come elections in the future the moderate republicans or those in not so safe seats will be dragged down by that element unless they do something about it quickly.

There seems to be two possible outcomes the extreme element keep getting more extreme alienating voters and losing elections for the republicans. The other is a backlash against the extreme elements currently calling the shots and a more traditional republican party coming to the fore.

As a liberal I'm loving watching them tear themselves apart and continuing to marginalise themselves but as a believer in democracy I see this as a very bad thing in the long run.

What do ye think?

tl:dr
The right wing media are doing their audience a disservice by presenting the view of reality they want to hear instead of the truth and facts this will return to bite them in the ass.

InTheTrees

The american news media doesn't like the follow up question. Especially the hallowed "White House Press Corps" who consider themselves the elite of political reporting. Unfortunatly their jobs depend on the cooperation of the members of congress.

Traditionally Sunday mornings are when Political Talk shows air on TV and you'll witness their bowing down to the politicians at its peak during those shows; The reporters just facilitate politicians to make any statement they like without fear of being questioned.

There's nobody like Jeremy Paxman on US tv.

And so it was pretty easy for an organisation like Fox News to jump in with a highly partisan republican message.

InTheTrees

20Cent wrote: »

The right wing media are doing their audience a disservice by presenting the view of reality they want to hear instead of the truth and facts this will return to bite them in the ass.

When they're ahead it serves them well because they can portray the Democrats as liars.

When they're behind (like now) it gets more interesting because they cant admit it. Like Bachmann and Cruz still going out and telling their supporters they're going to win the ACA battle.

Each time they lie and spin their loss as a win they lose a little support, but its a slow degradation.

Manach

That might be true, but (coming from my own conservative) POV that reality distortion field would operate on the liberal side as well. A few recent books on the brain and social perception (ie Haidt's Righteous Mind) show that people coalesce around social groups, us and them. I'm sure that the OP has a whole series of beliefs which are to that person truthful and crediable and does not serious question or seek to dispute them - instead (as is likely for the vast majority) seeks an ascertation of them - the confirmation bias.
It is neither a right or left wing bubble but a series of hermaticly sealed rooms where we are voluntarily incarcerated.

Manic Moran

Manach wrote: »

That might be true, but (coming from my own conservative) POV that reality distortion field would operate on the liberal side as well. A few recent books on the brain and social perception (ie Haidt's Righteous Mind) show that people coalesce around social groups, us and them. I'm sure that the OP has a whole series of beliefs which are to that person truthful and crediable and does not serious question or seek to dispute them - instead (as is likely for the vast majority) seeks an ascertation of them - the confirmation bias.
It is neither a right or left wing bubble but a series of hermaticly sealed rooms where we are voluntarily incarcerated.

This.

I believe it's also called the "Echo chamber" effect, and it is in no way confined to personnel on the right.

There's a wonderful example on my Sirius radio. Channel 125 is the conservative radio talk shot channel, 127 (there is no 126) is the liberal one. If you listen to either, all you will hear is how much 'their own' side is correct, and how deluded and idiotic the people are on who are on the next channel over. People listening to either channel will only get what their side believes to be true. Frankly, they're both wastes of bandwith.

20Cent

Manach wrote: »

That might be true, but (coming from my own conservative) POV that reality distortion field would operate on the liberal side as well. A few recent books on the brain and social perception (ie Haidt's Righteous Mind) show that people coalesce around social groups, us and them. I'm sure that the OP has a whole series of beliefs which are to that person truthful and crediable and does not serious question or seek to dispute them - instead (as is likely for the vast majority) seeks an ascertation of them - the confirmation bias.
It is neither a right or left wing bubble but a series of hermaticly sealed rooms where we are voluntarily incarcerated.

This is true to an extent and has always happened but I think we are seeing a new phenomenon where actual facts and figures which have been proven are ignored because they don't fit the agenda. I don't recall a time like this before.

Jonny7

There's an extreme on both sides. Whether the internet is driving this polarisation or simply highlighting a chasm that was always there remains to be seen.

Anyway the GOP must either come creaking into the 21st century or get "left" behind... woah political pun

Manach

At least on Boards, there is a co-existence in that one has to interact with world views that are different. Other sites operate in a more group-think fashion.

Overheal

Thats what I think keeps me logging in every day.

20Cent

Good example is the American "shock jock" George Hook has on sometimes to wind up the audience today.
When asked about government shutdown he said the polls were bad for the republicans but that didn't matter because he spent the weekend watching sports with his buddies and they thought the whole thing was funny so its ok.
He then went on to the real issue which was that some "liberals" were not accepting the traditional truth about Christopher Columbus and were saying that he was an invader and killed loads of Indians or something instead of celebrating the official version of the story .

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

20Cent

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Just saying its reached a new level, people have access to the information and facts more than ever before yet these guys still live in a fantasy land.

Said Dems and Libs do it too in the op just not to the same extent. You will hear self criticism amongst both those groups, also they don't claim "everyone is against them".

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

TwoGallants

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Sorry, but this is completely bizarre. The Republicans have agreed on a budget but refuse to agree on a mechanism to finance the budget. What they are doing is by definition insane. No amount of sophistry is going to change that!

InTheTrees

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I'm afraid that's how it looks right now. The Republicans are unable to control themselves and were going to see what defaulting on our debt looks like because they wont allow a vote.

"Fantasy bubble" is pretty close if you've ever heard Ted Cruz speak.

20Cent

Democracy has been thrown out the window. The Republicans changed the standing rules of the House so that only the Republican Speaker of the House could bring up the topic of reopening the government, rather than any member of the House which is normally the case. Apparently there are enough republicans to pass the budget but they can't do it because of this rule change. Pretty obscene,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Jd-iaYLO1A

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

InTheTrees

20Cent wrote: »

Democracy has been thrown out the window.

Ted Cruz and Sarah palin have somehow engineered control over the republican party. A rookie Congressman and a failed govenor.

Lunacy. But well see what a default on the debt does. Maybe Ted cruz is right and its all just scare tactics?

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

TwoGallants

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Yes, yes, yes, the US system of checks and balances was intended to create internal bickering and infighting. It was not, however, intended to make the country bankrupt. The US government can easily raise the money to pay the bills it has already agreed to and already passed by congress. A law which was passed by congress, ratified by the Supreme Court and which saw the President re-elected on the back of it... The Republicans want to overturn this despite the fact it IS A LAW! If they don't like the law, they can go to the people, garner votes and overturn it. Thats how a democratic Republic works. Essentially what is happening right now is that a barn (containing 300 million people) is on fire. One group of farmers are holding the hose waiting to put it out, the other group of farmers are maliciously and PSYCHOTICALLY!!! refusing to turn on the water. I'm sorry, but to think that any educated person could possibly defend the actions of the Republican party at this time defies all reason or belief.

It is also a well established fact that anywhere between 40-60 percent of Americans are retarded. Most Americans don't understand what the debt ceiling actually is.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

InTheTrees

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Maybe you're not watching tv. McConnell is talking to Reid and Pelosi and they cant get boehner to allow a vote because he'll probably lose his job without the support of the (only) 20 republican house members who wont vote on the budget.

The ted cruz wing of the republican party.

InTheTrees

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Sure. Republicans have argued against ObamaCare for three years. Lost an election it too.

So now they;re trying to use the (perfectly constitutional) back door ploy of attempting to defund the entire country to get past the fact that they lost.

Thinking Democrats should give an inch to them is lunatic. This is where the battle is. Its a political game of wills. Just saying "its constitutional" and thinking that's a reason Democrats should concede to them is nuts. A Fantasy Bubble.

InTheTrees

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Oddly enough, cruz and most of his far right cronies come from districts in republican states that have been redrawn to produce "safe" seats. Its particularly prevalent in texas, one of the more corrupt us states, but thers too.

In the US its called "gerrymandering":

"In the process of setting electoral districts, gerrymandering is a practice that attempts to establish a political advantage for a particular party or group by manipulating district boundaries to create partisan advantaged districts."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerrymandering

Apparently the 20 or so Republican members of the house who are refusing to vote on the budget represent less then 10% of the population.

InTheTrees

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Its is fascinating to see the "leader" of house republicans unable to lead the house republicans.

:pac:

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

InTheTrees

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Because the will of the people has been done and the republicans are trying a seldom used back door method of thwarting that will.

So there's no need to.

Lets play this game out and default.

InTheTrees

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

False equivalence. Republicans threaten Democrats and whine about them not cooperating if they dont give in. Its bully tactics.

Orwellian really. And gets us neatly back on topic:

The Right Wing Truth Bubble.

RichardoKhan

The quicker these Hypocritical Ayn Rand loving Nut jobs are finally bombed out of the polls the better for all............

Karl Stein

Rep/Dem politics is little more than a Punch and Judy show for those who actually think think that two factions of the business party give two ****s about what the people really want.

As for the debt ceiling, well:

235 world-renowned economists called on federal policymakers to immediately raise the federal debt ceiling without making drastic cuts to federal spending.

http://www.epi.org/publication/economist_sign-on_letter_on_the_debt_limit/

It seems that this long line of economists were laid end-to-end and actually reached a conclusion.

InTheTrees

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

The one after the 2010 election that you keep quoting.

Romney and Ryan ran on promises to repeal Obamacare. And lost in a landslide.

Who can forget Ryan's healthcare plan he jotted out on a napkin the night before the debates.

And yes, you're right it was a Presidential Election, as well as the House of Reps and part of the senate. But as a referendum on Presedential Policies I would say it trumps the senate and house elections.

clairefontaine

I really think they ought to make incoming immigrants and high school students read The Federalist Papers and the POINT of having three branches of government.

This is the point.

To make change slow, to increase debate, to not let the executive branch get carried away. Congress is the will of the people too.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

InTheTrees

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I would say in the spirit of the thread title, that you should provide some links to all these polls.

InTheTrees

InTheTrees wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Permabear wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

The most recent election is the most relevant instead of fixating on an election almost four years ago now.

If you had read your constitution you'd know that member's of the house of representatives are elected every two years so the entire house was elected in 2012. Plus half(?) of the Senate. In addition to the President.

Time to move on from the republican glory days of 2010.

InTheTrees

clairefontaine wrote: »

I really think they ought to make incoming immigrants and high school students read The Federalist Papers and the POINT of having three branches of government.

This is the point.

To make change slow, to increase debate, to not let the executive branch get carried away. Congress is the will of the people too.

You realize the founding fathers didnt invent the concept of checks and balances right?

"The separation of powers, often imprecisely used interchangeably with the trias politica principle,[1] is a model for the governance of a state (or who controls the state). The model was first developed in Ancient Greece and Rome. Under this model, the state is divided into branches, each with separate and independent powers and areas of responsibility so that no branch has more power than the other branches. The normal division of branches is into a legislature, an executive, and a judiciary."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_powers

clairefontaine

InTheTrees wrote: »

You realize the founding fathers didnt invent the concept of checks and balances right?

"The separation of powers, often imprecisely used interchangeably with the trias politica principle,[1] is a model for the governance of a state (or who controls the state). The model was first developed in Ancient Greece and Rome. Under this model, the state is divided into branches, each with separate and independent powers and areas of responsibility so that no branch has more power than the other branches. The normal division of branches is into a legislature, an executive, and a judiciary."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_powers

What's your point? I know where it comes from.

InTheTrees

...just checking.

20Cent

Even republicans think republicans aren't facing reality.

Rep. Jaime Herrera Beutler (R-Wash.)
"Nothing positive will be achieved by prolonging this shutdown any longer, or crossing the debt limit threshold," Herrera Beutler said in a statement. "It’s time for my colleagues to face reality."

HansHolzel

Democracy is like organized sports. You lose a free vote or a fair game, you get over it. You don't take the ball and run home in a sulk. If you already have eleven aircraft carriers, you don't fund a twelfth, unless you fear an attack from, say, Antarctica. You spend more money on civilized things like health care. Such is the view from Yurp.

Jonny7

HansHolzel wrote: »

Democracy is like organized sports. You lose a free vote or a fair game, you get over it. You don't take the ball and run home in a sulk. If you already have eleven aircraft carriers, you don't fund a twelfth, unless you fear an attack from, say, Antarctica. You spend more money on civilized things like health care. Such is the view from Yurp.

Perhaps the US isn't ready for free healthcare in the same way Russia isn't ready for gay marriage.

Bigger and richer doesn't necessarily mean progressive.

TwoGallants

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Do you think that Republicans should bankrupt the country in order to get what they want? How about they campaign on it in an election... oh right... they did that and it didn't work out.

Republican politicians are doing exactly what they were elected to do, which is represent the will of their constituents. You may not like the outcome of that — but this is the U.S. government working much as its founders intended. Okay, maybe they didn't anticipate the 16-trillion-dollar national debt part (George Washington argued that the United States should use public credit "as sparingly as possible") but that only shows how astronomical government spending and borrowing has itself become a threat to democracy.

The US debt is undoubtedly a bad thing, but there are elections that can be won or lost on this issue. What I don't understand is why anyone would think it an even remotely sane idea to even threaten default just because a law that most Americans have voted to maintain is going to be put in force.

That's always a good place to start in politics — label between 120 million and 180 million Americans as retarded because they don't share your views.

Frankly most people are retarded. Including those who share my views. Have you never seen facebook?

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

nagilum2

HansHolzel wrote: »

The House of Representatives is gerrymandered. Hence the redneck majority in it.

1. derogatory name calling is neither constructive nor insightful.
2. The gerrymandering is on both sides whenever either party has power at the state level, and is designed to make districts safe for incumbents with very few true tossup districts, hence creating to greater polarization because the safe districts lean more extreme in the primary process.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

clairefontaine

Right. And the vast majority of Americans are "retarded." I wonder if its this same "majority" who want Obamacare.