DCM strategy

thewolf_ie

So thought it best to have some type of plan. Anyone wants to give it a look over I would be very grateful for any advise.

I have been using P&D 18 week 55-70 week. Half marathon time 1:28. I've been running a year this is my first.

Plan A

Marathon splits

1-5 miles 7:20 pace (36m:40s)
6-10 miles 7:15 pace (36m:15s, 1h:12m:55s)
11-15 miles 7:10 pace (35m:50s, 1h:48m:45s)
16-20 miles 7 pace (35m, 2h:23m:45)
21-26.2 miles 6:40 pace (41m:20s, 3h:5m:05s)

Plan b 3:15

randomCluster

Not sure if there is a right or wrong answer to this. It's more a process of gaining experience and finding out what works for your mind and body. Personally I'd find it difficult to run 20 seconds p/m faster for the last 6 miles, particularly if it's your first marathon. I agree with the conservative start. I plan on keeping it disciplined for the first 13 miles and then, based on feel and heart rate, start increasing my effort until I reach about 90% of my max heart rate.

Tipp man running

Hi Wolf,

In theory you have the breakdown fairly right as in going out handy and aiming for a negative split by gradually upping the pace...but I really fear your been too ambitious in a 3.05. I do hope I'm wrong and that you've improved since that 1.28, or have great speed endurance.

Looking at the last 10 miles or so you'll be running them around your half marathon pace...Tough going. Since its your first marathon maybe the B plan might be more achievable and enjoyable. I've done Dublin the last 6 years and always find with this course once you have something in the tank after 20 miles you can really push on pass people and gain time.

shoottherunner

Hi Wolfie, interested to read this as your stats are quite close to mine (1.29 half/aiming for a 3.10). I'm planning to do a race strategy but i'll probably break it down to mile by mile so that I can take into account the few hills. Reckon i'll set off at about 3.15 pace and increase pace slowly from there. I'll be aiming to get myself to the 20 mile mark with a little left in the tank. Having blown up last year, I know there's nothing worse than being passed out by other runners and the pacers.

TFBubendorfer

From 7:20 to 6:40 is a jump of 40 seconds per mile. :eek: You'd be starting more or less with the 3:20 pacers and finishing faster than the 3 hrs pacers!

I'd recommend a far more even approach. In fact, I'd recommend that you should be on goal pace after 3 miles or so and hold it for the rest of the race. If you're still feeling good after 20 miles there is still time to put the hammer down.

snailsong

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

From 7:20 to 6:40 is a jump of 40 seconds per mile. :eek: You'd be starting more or less with the 3:20 pacers and finishing faster than the 3 hrs pacers!

I'd recommend a far more even approach. In fact, I'd recommend that you should be on goal pace after 3 miles or so and hold it for the rest of the race. If you're still feeling good after 20 miles there is still time to put the hammer down.

+1 to that. Plan A won't work and plan b is a bit conservative. Why not start with the 3:10 pacers and pick it up for the last few miles if you still feel strong. That'll be my plan.

Krusty_Clown

Trying to hold yourself to a regimental plan like that could create additional stress and require additional effort. In principle it's fine (particularly if the overall plan is pretty cautious and you are confident that you can run 3:05), but during a three hour race you will feel stronger at times and not as strong at other times.

Why not just print off a pace band for 3:10, aim to be a little behind up to 5 miles, close to target at half-way, bang on pace at 20 miles, and then you have the opportunity to pick up the pace from 20 miles if you have paced it correctly?

What pace have you trained for? What pace were your PMP runs at? How many 20+ mile runs have you done?

thewolf_ie

Thanks for all the feedback.

thewolf_ie

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Trying to hold yourself to a regimental plan like that could create additional stress and require additional effort. In principle it's fine (particularly if the overall plan is pretty cautious and you are confident that you can run 3:05), but during a three hour race you will feel stronger at times and not as strong at other times.

Why not just print off a pace band for 3:10, aim to be a little behind up to 5 miles, close to target at half-way, bang on pace at 20 miles, and then you have the opportunity to pick up the pace from 20 miles if you have paced it correctly?

What pace have you trained for? What pace were your PMP runs at? How many 20+ mile runs have you done?

Cheers.

I've done 22,21,20,18,18 and a rake of just below the 22 miler was about 7:20 pace and I felt strong. I have done a number of things with PMP miles which are running them faster during half marathons or slower over hills. I was training for sub 3 but on advice was rethinking. When I did run normal PMP they were 6:50ish. I guess 3:12 would be the softer target. I will rework the plan based on above. Coach says I should just get around but I need structure.

RayCun

First marathon, your biggest risk is not being prepared for the distance and blowing up messily.

Start behind the 3.10 pacers, and stay behind them for at least 10 miles.
If that feels easy, pick it up a bit at 10 miles, no more than 10 seconds/mile.
Reassess at 15, still not picking up by more than 10 seconds.
If you have more to give at 20, go for it.

KielyUnusual

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Trying to hold yourself to a regimental plan like that could create additional stress and require additional effort. In principle it's fine (particularly if the overall plan is pretty cautious and you are confident that you can run 3:05), but during a three hour race you will feel stronger at times and not as strong at other times.

Why not just print off a pace band for 3:10, aim to be a little behind up to 5 miles, close to target at half-way, bang on pace at 20 miles, and then you have the opportunity to pick up the pace from 20 miles if you have paced it correctly?

What pace have you trained for? What pace were your PMP runs at? How many 20+ mile runs have you done?

I was going to make an almost identical comment to this. It's difficult to plan beyond halfway. Have a strategy to get you there and then assess how you want to run the rest of the race at that point.

rodneyr1981

shoottherunner wrote: »

Hi Wolfie, interested to read this as your stats are quite close to mine (1.29 half/aiming for a 3.10). I'm planning to do a race strategy but i'll probably break it down to mile by mile so that I can take into account the few hills. Reckon i'll set off at about 3.15 pace and increase pace slowly from there. I'll be aiming to get myself to the 20 mile mark with a little left in the tank. Having blown up last year, I know there's nothing worse than being passed out by other runners and the pacers.

As a first timer with similar times to u (1.30 HM) should I pace off the 3.10 pacer and ease off if I feel too aggressive or go with the safe card and stay with the 3.15 pacer?? Or even safer again at 3.20?? Cheers

Krusty_Clown

rodneyr1981 wrote: »

As a first timer with similar times to u (1.30 HM) should I pace off the 3.10 pacer and ease off if I feel too aggressive or go with the safe card and stay with the 3.15 pacer?? Or even safer again at 3.20?? Cheers

There are no 3:15 pacers, so that's part of your problem solved! Pace groups are in 10 minute intervals. For your first marathon, the cautious approach may be the best. You can pick up the pace later in the race iif you can, but if you go out to fast, it's very hard to recover (death march to the finish line! )

28064212

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

You can pick up the pace later in the race iif you can, but if you go out to fast, it's very hard to recover (death march to the finish line! )

^ This. Would you rather reach 20 miles and realise you've gone out too fast, or that you've gone out too slow? You can fix some of the latter by picking up the pace. You can't do anything with the former

thewolf_ie

Thanks! Two weeks we will already be running!

Clearlier

rodneyr1981 wrote: »

As a first timer with similar times to u (1.30 HM) should I pace off the 3.10 pacer and ease off if I feel too aggressive or go with the safe card and stay with the 3.15 pacer?? Or even safer again at 3.20?? Cheers

I would start ahead of the 3:20 and behind the 3:10 pacers. If, as in previous years they're trailing baloons along behind them you'll be well able to see where they are for quite a long time. Don't try and catch up or stay ahead just go at a pace that feels comfortable. Let the pace come to you - don't go chasing after it. You shouldn't really feel like you're putting in much effort until about the halfway point (13.1). Keep focused for the next several miles (good form, breathing into the bottom of your lungs) and at the real halfway point (20 miles) you can make a decision about how you feel. If you feel great pick it up a little bit but less than you think you could handle. Review your situation again at 22 miles and repeat and again at 24. Cross the line with your arms aloft!

shoottherunner

Clearlier wrote: »

I would start ahead of the 3:20 and behind the 3:10 pacers. If, as in previous years they're trailing baloons along behind them you'll be well able to see where they are for quite a long time. Don't try and catch up or stay ahead just go at a pace that feels comfortable. Let the pace come to you - don't go chasing after it. You shouldn't really feel like you're putting in much effort until about the halfway point (13.1). Keep focused for the next several miles (good form, breathing into the bottom of your lungs) and at the real halfway point (20 miles) you can make a decision about how you feel. If you feel great pick it up a little bit but less than you think you could handle. Review your situation again at 22 miles and repeat and again at 24. Cross the line with your arms aloft!

Sound advice. I'll be trying to focus on this in particular for the first half of the race: 'Let the pace come to you - don't go chasing after it. You shouldn't really feel like you're putting in much effort until about the halfway point (13.1)'

tunguska

thewolf_ie wrote: »

So thought it best to have some type of plan. Anyone wants to give it a look over I would be very grateful for any advise.

I have been using P&D 18 week 55-70 week. Half marathon time 1:28. I've been running a year this is my first.

Plan A

Marathon splits

1-5 miles 7:20 pace (36m:40s)
6-10 miles 7:15 pace (36m:15s, 1h:12m:55s)
11-15 miles 7:10 pace (35m:50s, 1h:48m:45s)
16-20 miles 7 pace (35m, 2h:23m:45)
21-26.2 miles 6:40 pace (41m:20s, 3h:5m:05s)

Plan b 3:15

I think its good to have a plan but yours seems to be a little too idealistic. Have you run DCM before or is this your first go? If its your first time I'd strongly recommend going over the course on a bike to get the lay of the land and a feel for the various drags and hills. I think trying to stick to a plan like the one you have would be a disaster because you'd be trying harder than you should to hold pace on difficult sections like the hill at chapelizod or the long drag up the crumlin road, whereas its best to taake it easy on these sections and make up time on easier ones later in the race. A negative split is the best option for a course like dublin, but running by feel for the first half is something that I think is the best way to go. If you're trying too hard to hit certain paces over that first half it could result in you being cooked by 17 miles. Whereas if you run the first half fairly comfortably you'll be in a position to really give the second half a good whack.

thewolf_ie

tunguska wrote: »

I think its good to have a plan but yours seems to be a little too idealistic. Have you run DCM before or is this your first go? If its your first time I'd strongly recommend going over the course on a bike to get the lay of the land and a feel for the various drags and hills. I think trying to stick to a plan like the one you have would be a disaster because you'd be trying harder than you should to hold pace on difficult sections like the hill at chapelizod or the long drag up the crumlin road, whereas its best to taake it easy on these sections and make up time on easier ones later in the race. A negative split is the best option for a course like dublin, but running by feel for the first half is something that I think is the best way to go. If you're trying too hard to hit certain paces over that first half it could result in you being cooked by 17 miles. Whereas if you run the first half fairly comfortably you'll be in a position to really give the second half a good whack.

I think my best bet based on the advice would be to run by feel. At half way assess and adjust either way. If I have something left I'm racing the last 4 miles!
I want to finish good not be stretchered off.

RayCun

thewolf_ie wrote: »

I think my best bet based on the advice would be to run by feel.

Set yourself a realistic maximum pace for when you're 'running by feel'. The first half always feels relatively easy

thewolf_ie

RayCun wrote: »

Set yourself a realistic maximum pace for when you're 'running by feel'. The first half always feels relatively easy

7:20 average until mile 22.

rodneyr1981

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

There are no 3:15 pacers, so that's part of your problem solved! Pace groups are in 10 minute intervals. For your first marathon, the cautious approach may be the best. You can pick up the pace later in the race iif you can, but if you go out to fast, it's very hard to recover (death march to the finish line! )

Thanks for that not sure why I thought there was a 3.15 pacer?? My biggest problem will be trying not to get too carried away too early. Prob best to stick with 3.20 for first half at least so.