Notice Period - No Lease Agreement

kencoo

Hi All,

Quick one. I moved into a house 3 years ago and signed a 1 year lease. It stipulated a 28day notice period was required if we were to move out. This agreement wasnt renewed annually but i continued to pay the rent by direct debit.

Landlord is looking for rent increase so im going to move out. Landlord has informed me i need to be out in 28 days.

PRTB states 56 days.

Landlord has argued that as i dont have a valid lease he only needs to give a months notice. Who is correct?

Marcusm

kencoo wrote: »

Hi All,

Quick one. I moved into a house 3 years ago and signed a 1 year lease. It stipulated a 28day notice period was required if we were to move out. This agreement wasnt renewed annually but i continued to pay the rent by direct debit.

Landlord is looking for rent increase so im going to move out. Landlord has informed me i need to be out in 28 days.

PRTB states 56 days.

Landlord has argued that as i dont have a valid lease he only needs to give a months notice. Who is correct?

Point him towards Part 4 of the Residential Tenancies Act 2004 or point him here ( http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/types_of_tenancy.html ). The absence of a written agreement is irrelevant in these circumstances. If you are there more than 3 years, you would theoretcially need to give 84 days but it is hard to see him holding you to this. He needs to give you 28 days notice of a proposed rent increase in any event.

Koptain Liverpool

Having lived there for more than 6 months you are covered by Part 4 Tenancy Legislation. This applies regardless of whether or not you have a lease. The notice periods to be given by both the tenant and the landlord under this act are: 28 days, 35 days, 42, 56, 84 and 112 days.

http://www.daft.ie/content/residential_tenancies_act_2004.daft

So your landlord must give you 56 days notice if you have lived there between 2 and 3 years or 84 days notice if between 3 and 4 years.

This is the law.

D3PO

whilst both the above posters are correct they are missing one crucial point.

The LL is entitled to increase the rent in 28 days time, so yes you can stay beyond that if you wish but for the rest of those 56 days you are obligated to pay that increased rent.

Whilst the PRTB laws setout the notice periods attached to the RTA 2004 quoting the law isn't always the answer. Common sense also needs to prevail.

If you don't want to pay the increase then you will need to leave before the increase kicks in. If you don't your libel for the increase. As the LL cannot give you notice due to refusal to accept a rent increase they have to evict you on the basis of non payment of rent beginning with 14 days notice of arrears followed by an eviction notice.

So whilst you can stay longer than the 28 days, your going to have a chunk of your deposit taken to cover rent owed and your going to get a crappy reference if you need one. What is the point ?

djimi

Technically you are the one who is supposed to be giving the notice as you are the one who is breaking the tenancy by not agreeing to the rent increase. You would need to give 84 days notice (if you are there more than 3 years) and he cannot insist that you vacate sooner.

djimi

D3PO wrote: »

The LL is entitled to increase the rent in 28 days time, so yes you can stay beyond that if you wish but for the rest of those 56 days you are obligated to pay that increased rent.

Im not sure that this is the case to be honest. It is my understanding that if the tenant does not agree to the rent increase then they give notice and vacate, but I dont think they are obliged to pay the increased rent during the notice period?

wonski

kencoo wrote: »

Landlord has argued that as i dont have a valid lease he only needs to give a months notice. Who is correct?

We should have a quote of the week thread in this forum.

84 days if over 3 years, but not sure about the rent increase - is there any specific minimum notice for rent increases? All tenancies I had were reviewed annually, with new lease documents every year.

D3PO

djimi wrote: »

Im not sure that this is the case to be honest. It is my understanding that if the tenant does not agree to the rent increase then they give notice and vacate, but I dont think they are obliged to pay the increased rent during the notice period?

That's actually not correct. The RTA is very clear that a LL has to give 28 days notice of a rent increase. There is no mention that this doesn't apply if a tenant refuses the increase and decides to move out.

Its been something floating around boards a lot. No idea where it started from but its not correct.

So a tenant refusing it means one of a few things will happen

a) The LL and tenant will mutually agree to end the tenancy in 28 days (as is here) as its common sense for this to happen

b) The tenant will refuse and give notice to vacate. Legally they would have to pay the increased rent beyond the 28 days however again common sense from most parties would mean the rent is left as is (what your referring to Djimi but not legally the case)

c) The tenant will refuse and take a PRTB case regarding the rent increase citing it to be above market rent. Will pay the current rate until the hearing and then the PRTB will determine if it was legitimate or not. In the case of siding with the LL the tenant will then owe all that rent to the LL aswell as having to pay that new rate going forward.

d) The tenant will refuse and do nothing most likely because they aren't aware of how this situation should be handled. The LL will then after 28 days have passed upon the next rent due date (assuming the new rent amount isn't paid) have to issue a letter of arrears and start eviction procedings on the basis of the tenant being in rent arrears.

They are the 4 possible outcomes, commons sense applied a) or b) should be used and as the LL is advocating a) I think it would be at least wise for the OP to consider it even though legally it has no basis.

djimi

D3PO wrote: »

That's actually not correct. The RTA is very clear that a LL has to give 28 days notice of a rent increase. There is no mention that this doesn't apply if a tenant refuses the increase and decides to move out

You are correct; I went through the RTA after posting and there is no mention of what happens if the tenant refuses the rent increase. I guess I must have been thinking of a) or b) above.

kencoo

This is purely a notice period question. We didn’t have a falling out. The landlord just texted me and stated that the market rate was x% higher than we were paying and therefore needed an increase. We did a bit of bargaining to meet half way and agree however there were a few other maintenance issues which he wouldn’t rectify (said I could pay if I wanted them fixed). They could be expensive and it’s not really worth it so I said id move out.
I’m happy to move though and I’m not trying to be difficult however ill will be away for 2 weeks from next so it’s awkward rather than anything else. I have agreed to pay increase until then.

D3PO

djimi wrote: »

You are correct; I went through the RTA after posting and there is no mention of what happens if the tenant refuses the rent increase. I guess I must have been thinking of a) or b) above.

na you were just going with what's been posted on here tens of times tbh. I have no idea where it started from its just one of those things that gets mentioned latched onto and then people take it as fact.

Chris_5339762

however there were a few other maintenance issues which he wouldn’t rectify (said I could pay if I wanted them fixed).

Lord above. What maintenance did he want you to do for goodness sake?

QuiteInterestin

kencoo wrote: »

This is purely a notice period question. We didn’t have a falling out. The landlord just texted me and stated that the market rate was x% higher than we were paying and therefore needed an increase. We did a bit of bargaining to meet half way and agree however there were a few other maintenance issues which he wouldn’t rectify (said I could pay if I wanted them fixed). They could be expensive and it’s not really worth it so I said id move out.
I’m happy to move though and I’m not trying to be difficult however ill will be away for 2 weeks from next so it’s awkward rather than anything else. I have agreed to pay increase until then.

I'm open to correction here, but my understanding regarding rent increases was that they had to be put in writing (i.e. a letter posted to you at your rental address) giving 28 days notice of the increase in rent of said property. Would a text be considered proper notice? If not, you still have 28 days from once you receive the letter informing you of the increase in rent before it starts and you must give 56/84 days notice depending on how long you've been living there (unless you and landlord can agree on a shorter period, but you cannot be forced to leave earlier then this but must pay increased rent once 28 days have elapsed).

kencoo

Thanks for the replys. i suppose in summary the landlord was disappointed that we are leaving and is just flexing their muscle a bit. The maintenance issue was trivial enough on my part (the shower leaked upstairs and damaged a small part of plaster on the ceiling and in general it just needs a paint). The landlord was great until the notice period issue.

wonski

Since you agreed to pay increased rent until you leave I can't understand your landlord action - sounds a bit silly. You leaving later than in 28 days gives him an advantage of having more time to find another tenant.

D3PO

QuiteInterestin wrote: »

I'm open to correction here, but my understanding regarding rent increases was that they had to be put in writing (i.e. a letter posted to you at your rental address) giving 28 days notice of the increase in rent of said property. Would a text be considered proper notice? .

according to threshold a text is considered a reasonable method of notice.