Outstanding rent, landlord contacts me a year later

Maria.34

Hello,

I have been renting a room in Dublin, back a year ago in Dublin. When I moved in, I was told to hold off on the rent payment because the property is changing owners at this very moment.
I also asked for a contract, which I have not been given. I never signed anything.

I was told there is no real notice on leaving, all I have to do, is to find a new tenant that takes over my room, just like the guy did before me, and so on.

I stayed there for 60 days, and then I moved out again. Found a new tenant who took over m room.

During the 60 days I stayed there, I have never met the landlord nor heard from him. Never been given a contract, and never been given any bank details from the landlord. All I have been told, was to hold off with the payment.

When I left the other tenants said, they themselves didn't pay any rent for the past 2 months, since all they heard was not to pay because there is a new owner now, and he will contact them.

Exactly 12 months later, after I long left Ireland, I get an email from the supposedly new landlord, saying that he noticed I did not pay any rent during the 60 days I was there.
I told him that this is correct, but we were told by the previous landlord that the new landlord would give us new instructions, contract and everything, thats the reason I didn't pay.
I told him in the email I am happy to pay, but since I never met him, and this has all been 12 months back, I don't really have proof that he is the owner, so I would require a full contract, PPS number, name address of him and his property.

In his reply, he refused to send me a contract, but demands that I pay the outstanding rent (2 x 500EUR) within 30 days, or he will will forward this to his solicitor. Additionally, he will hold the deposit of all tenant currently living there.

If found this quite rude, not to mention that I don't really have proof that he really is who he said he is, and all of this has been 12 months back.
Also I would not be able to just pay a 1000 Euro like that, it would need to be split into several payments.

So what is the legal situation here? I don't want to be an ass here, because I did stay in the apartment for 60 days. However having someone 12 months later out of nowhere sending me an email claiming he is the new owner, and demanding the outstanding rent to be paid in 30 days, and treating with solicitor and also holding the deposit of other tenants although they all (what I assume) have independent contracts with the landlord. (not to mentioned I never signed anything, not been given any contract and now refuses to send me a contract).

sweetie

He's chancing his arm, I wouldn't give him anything. Who is to know if another 'owner' gets in contact in a month asking for their thousand euro. Where would it end?

gaius c

Should have ignored the email and not responded at all so don't respond now.
I entered the thread all set to give you a finger-wagging lecture on why you should pay your bills but it does seem to be a bit of a mess. 12 months...he deserves to lose the rent for being so slovenly with his business affairs.
How did he get your email address? How is he going to get his solicitor after you when you're not even in the country?

the_syco

Maria.34 wrote: »

In his reply, he refused to send me a contract, but demands that I pay the outstanding rent (2 x 500EUR) within 30 days, or he will will forward this to his solicitor. Additionally, he will hold the deposit of all tenant currently living there.

Tell him to contact your previous landlord, as you have no contract with the guy emailing you.

djimi

I would be inclined to let him follow through on his threat to involve a solicitor to be honest. It sounds like an unholy mess of a situation, and I wouldnt even want to guess as to how you would begin to sort it. I seriously doubt that he would follow up legally, especially if you are no longer in the country, but perhaps if a solicitor does get involved then it might result in the situation being clarified. Basically, you owe the money to someone (it was a bit daft living somewhere for two months and making no attempt to settle rent before leaving; it was unlikely just to go away), but at this point the question is who do you owe the money to.

Maria.34

I assume he had contact details of tenants who lived there at the time I lived there as well. Last I heard, several people I got to know that were living there, also left, even left Ireland by now.

He doesn't have my address, nor do I live in Ireland, but in his last reply he asked for it, I quote

Can you forward me your correspondence address as this matter has been forwarded to our Solicitors and papers must be served upon you.

Oh, I kind of realised just now, that he wrote that he already contacted his solicitor. Strange... a few days ago in his email, he wrote I have 30 days to pay.

I am aware that I owe someone 2 months rent. However with these kinds of treats and unfriendlyness, I feel like ignoring it all. Can he actually hold the deposit of other tenants? Even though everyone rents a room for themselves?

Maria.34

the_syco wrote: »

Tell him to contact your previous landlord, as you have no contract with the guy emailing you.

The problem is, I have no contract at all. I never met the old landlord, never met the new landlord. Never seen a lease, never been given bank details.

When I went for the viewing, the current tenant at the time living there showed me the room, and said he moves out, and he is looking for someone to take over his room. He said the landlord will give me a new contract, and whenever I feel like moving out, all I have to do, is to find a new tenant for the room.

Then when I moved in, the other tenants told me to hold off with the payment, since the property is changing ownership.
And during the entire 60 days I was there, non of us ever heard from the landlord, nor was I given a contract.

bucketybuck

I wouldn't worry one second about this. This guy has nothing on you and is clearly just chancing his arm.

djimi

If he wants to deal with you let him find you! Id be ignoring him to be honest.

Can he actually hold the deposit of other tenants? Even though everyone rents a room for themselves?

Im assuming that it was one of those situations where you took over from another tenant, you paid your deposit to them etc?

Those situations are a nonsense in reality and are a mess to deal with. Technically speaking there has only ever been one tenant as far as the landlord is concerned (the first one). By "taking over" from the previous tenant the subsequent tenants inherit any issues that have gone with them. It becomes a dangerous game, and the last one in line is always likely to lose out, as any deductions that have to be made from the deposit for anything that has happened since the first tenant moved in will come from their deposit. So in this case, if there is unpaid rent then yes, its entirely possible that the current tenants will be the ones who lose their deposits to cover it.

hfallada

If he uses a solicitor it will cost him €150-200. Then it will be different to sue a person across the eu. I think he is all talk no action.

Potatoeman

You didnt sign anything and have no lease. I wouldnt worry about it. I thought there was a limit on how long a bill can be backdated. Anyone know?

djimi

Maria.34 wrote: »

Then when I moved in, the other tenants told me to hold off with the payment, since the property is changing ownership.
And during the entire 60 days I was there, non of us ever heard from the landlord, nor was I given a contract.

You really have created this situaiton for yourself to be honest. Its up to you to find out who the landlord is and who you are supposed to be paying rent to. Its not up to the other tenants to tell you to hold off on paying rent; it has to be paid to someone so its up to you to find out the whole story. I think you can count yourself lucky that you are not living in the country as they wont bother looking for you, but the whole tenancy wasnt handled well, by anyone involved.

Potatoeman

djimi wrote: »

You really have created this situaiton for yourself to be honest. Its up to you to find out who the landlord is and who you are supposed to be paying rent to. Its not up to the other tenants to tell you to hold off on paying rent; it has to be paid to someone so its up to you to find out the whole story. I think you can count yourself lucky that you are not living in the country as they wont bother looking for you, but the whole tenancy wasnt handled well, by anyone involved.

Wouldnt it be the landlords responsibility? They have no lease and never had contact with them.

djimi

Potatoeman wrote: »

Wouldnt it be the landlords responsibility? They have no lease and never had contact with them.

Not necessarily. The landlord probably doesnt even know that the OP was living there.

End of the day when you move in somewhere you expect to pay rent. If nobody gives you the details of where to pay, or if you are given some vague story by another tenant, you dont bury your head in the sand and hope that it all goes away; you find out what the story is and who you have to pay money to.

Maria.34

djimi wrote: »

You really have created this situaiton for yourself to be honest. Its up to you to find out who the landlord is and who you are supposed to be paying rent to. Its not up to the other tenants to tell you to hold off on paying rent; it has to be paid to someone so its up to you to find out the whole story. I think you can count yourself lucky that you are not living in the country as they wont bother looking for you, but the whole tenancy wasnt handled well, by anyone involved.

I asked several times for a contract, as well as for the bank details. The girl living their longest, said the current landlord is selling the property, a few days later we received a letter addressed to all tenants, saying to hold off with the payment until the ownership is complete. He will then also hand out new contracts and bank details.
This must have taken them more than 2 months, because by the time I left again, neither me nor any of the other tenants, received a new contracts or bank details.
I definitely didn't try to dodge any payments, since I asked for it several times, however they never came back to us and I left my contact details (phone number, email address with the tenants living there).

Mr. Incognito

He has no contract to ground a claim on so cannot recover legally.

He may not even had title during the period between the sale of the property and uncollected rent would be between him and previous landlord.

He is all bluff. Block his email address and forget about it.

He also has no legal basis to hold other people's deposits. Sounds like a bit of a bully.

drumswan

djimi wrote: »

You really have created this situaiton for yourself to be honest. Its up to you to find out who the landlord is and who you are supposed to be paying rent to.

Nonsense, its the landlords responsibility to manage his business and provide payment details to the tenant. What business would provide a service and not bother to bill the customer? There was no contract here, not even a verbal one.

Potatoeman

djimi wrote: »

Not necessarily. The landlord probably doesnt even know that the OP was living there.

End of the day when you move in somewhere you expect to pay rent. If nobody gives you the details of where to pay, or if you are given some vague story by another tenant, you dont bury your head in the sand and hope that it all goes away; you find out what the story is and who you have to pay money to.

The same goes for the landlord.

Youredeadright

I asked several times for a contract, as well as for the bank details. The girl living their longest, said the current landlord is selling the property, a few days later we received a letter addressed to all tenants, saying to hold off with the payment until the ownership is complete. He will then also hand out new contracts and bank details.
This must have taken them more than 2 months, because by the time I left again, neither me nor any of the other tenants, received a new contracts or bank details.
I definitely didn't try to dodge any payments, since I asked for it several times.

Yeah- I'm with you on this one. It looks as though all this new landlord has about you is your name and e-mail address, which makes sense as you didn't sign any contract/lease. And they're being really hardball about it considering most of this mess up is their own fault.If you don't have a problem with it just leave it go - no contract was signed so legally you don't owe them anything, there's no way I can see they can force you to pay.

metroburgers

Maria.34 wrote: »

Hello,

I have been renting a room in Dublin, back a year ago in Dublin. When I moved in, I was told to hold off on the rent payment because the property is changing owners at this very moment.
I also asked for a contract, which I have not been given. I never signed anything.... etc

While reading your post I incurred electricity/heat/accom charges, please forward me your postal address so my solicitor can pursue these costs.

Landlord has no legal grounds to pursue you, end of.

Ascii

bucketybuck wrote: »

I wouldn't worry one second about this. This guy has nothing on you and is clearly just chancing his arm.

+1. Nothing will come of this. His solicitor will probably tell him to cop the [EMAIL="f*@k"]f*@k[/EMAIL] on

Ray Palmer

You owe the rent pay it.

There is absolutely no need for any contract at the time or now.

drumswan

Ray Palmer wrote: »

You owe the rent pay it.

There is absolutely no need for any contract at the time or now.

Lol, do you send a thousand euro to everyone who emails you asking for it? I now a certain Nigerian prince who might need your help.

Youredeadright

Ray Palmer wrote: »

There is absolutely no need for any contract at the time or now.

This situation is exactly when a contract is needed.

Ray Palmer

Ray Palmer wrote: »

You owe the rent pay it.

There is absolutely no need for any contract at the time or now.

There is always need for a contract.

In fact, every time anything is bought or sold, a contract exists.

However, law stipulates a written contract is needed for property transactions such as the OP's, which was not given.

It is the vendor's responsibility to ask for payment, and the method of doing so. The OP requires proof that the person contacting him is the rightful vendor, which should be forthcoming.

OP, insist on proof of ownership, and if you get this proof, then OU pay. Tone of voice, looking for him to be "nice" has nothing to do with it. The only scenario where you could completely ignore it is if you're sure you'll never enter Irish juristiction again.

bucketybuck

Ray Palmer wrote: »

You owe the rent pay it.

From a legal standpoint, the OP does not in fact owe the rent. There is no contract between the OP and the guy who sent the email, and as such there is no rent to owe.

ted1

Maria.34 wrote: »

Hello,

I have been renting a room in Dublin, back a year ago in Dublin. When I moved in, I was told to hold off on the rent payment because the property is changing owners at this very moment.
I also asked for a contract, which I have not been given. I never signed anything.

I was told there is no real notice on leaving, all I have to do, is to find a new tenant that takes over my room, just like the guy did before me, and so on.

I stayed there for 60 days, and then I moved out again. Found a new tenant who took over m room.

During the 60 days I stayed there, I have never met the landlord nor heard from him. Never been given a contract, and never been given any bank details from the landlord. All I have been told, was to hold off with the payment.

When I left the other tenants said, they themselves didn't pay any rent for the past 2 months, since all they heard was not to pay because there is a new owner now, and he will contact them.

Exactly 12 months later, after I long left Ireland, I get an email from the supposedly new landlord, saying that he noticed I did not pay any rent during the 60 days I was there.
I told him that this is correct, but we were told by the previous landlord that the new landlord would give us new instructions, contract and everything, thats the reason I didn't pay.
I told him in the email I am happy to pay, but since I never met him, and this has all been 12 months back, I don't really have proof that he is the owner, so I would require a full contract, PPS number, name address of him and his property.

In his reply, he refused to send me a contract, but demands that I pay the outstanding rent (2 x 500EUR) within 30 days, or he will will forward this to his solicitor. Additionally, he will hold the deposit of all tenant currently living there.

If found this quite rude, not to mention that I don't really have proof that he really is who he said he is, and all of this has been 12 months back.
Also I would not be able to just pay a 1000 Euro like that, it would need to be split into several payments.

So what is the legal situation here? I don't want to be an ass here, because I did stay in the apartment for 60 days. However having someone 12 months later out of nowhere sending me an email claiming he is the new owner, and demanding the outstanding rent to be paid in 30 days, and treating with solicitor and also holding the deposit of other tenants although they all (what I assume) have independent contracts with the landlord. (not to mentioned I never signed anything, not been given any contract and now refuses to send me a contract).

OK, firstly uo do acknowledge that the rent is owed.

so what you do is look up the property price register and see when the house was sold. ( I am persumming that a new landlord implies it was sold) pay him the pro rata amount owed from the date the house was sold.

metroburgers

ted1 wrote: »

OK, firstly uo do acknowledge that the rent is owed.

so what you do is look up the property price register and see when the house was sold. ( I am persumming that a new landlord implies it was sold) pay him the pro rata amount owed from the date the house was sold.

Nonsense...You have no contract with Landlord, regardless if you emailed him acknowledging you owe rent.

Grumpypants

ted1 wrote: »

OK, firstly uo do acknowledge that the rent is owed.

so what you do is look up the property price register and see when the house was sold. ( I am persumming that a new landlord implies it was sold) pay him the pro rata amount owed from the date the house was sold.

The OP has been trying to pay for a year making numerous attempts to get contracts/bank details from the landlord. All he wants now is proof that this random emailer that appeared out of the blue 12 months later is the new landlord before he sends him a grand. The OP is making a very simple request. a postal address to send the money too and a pps number to cross reference that he is the land lord.

Since the landlord is refusing to give him this info the OP can't pay him.

Ray Palmer

bucketybuck wrote: »

From a legal standpoint, the OP does not in fact owe the rent. There is no contract between the OP and the guy who sent the email, and as such there is no rent to owe.

You don't need a written contract to rent in Ireland. There is a contract just not written.

If he doesn't pay it is exactly the same as theft.

metroburgers

Ray Palmer wrote: »

You don't need a written contract to rent in Ireland. There is a contract just not written.

If he doesn't pay it is exactly the same as theft.

:pac: Actually, you're completely right. OP needs to turn herself in and begin extradition proceedings. How dare she....

superelliptic

djimi wrote: »

You really have created this situaiton for yourself to be honest. Its up to you to find out who the landlord is and who you are supposed to be paying rent to. Its not up to the other tenants to tell you to hold off on paying rent; it has to be paid to someone so its up to you to find out the whole story. I think you can count yourself lucky that you are not living in the country as they wont bother looking for you, but the whole tenancy wasnt handled well, by anyone involved.

Fair enough, but the landlord should be aware of when tennants are coming and going and that all of the relevent documentation is being produced and signed off - eg lease agreements, PTSB documents etc.

Both sides are at fault here imo, but moreso the landlord, and deffo for not responding reasonably to the OP's request for proof of identity and a contract - I mean, who the hell is going to just fork over a grand without batting an eyelid to a total stranger who contacted them by email??? :eek:

bucketybuck

Ray Palmer wrote: »

You don't need a written contract to rent in Ireland. There is a contract just not written.

If he doesn't pay it is exactly the same as theft.

What the supposed landlord is doing is exactly the same as extortion. (See how this works?)

And what if the OP tells him that the agreed rental rate was €1 per month, and that he only owes €2? Who is this supposed landlord to say that it wasn't, he wasn't party to the original agreement.

Ray Palmer

bucketybuck wrote: »

What the supposed landlord is doing is exactly the same as extortion. (See how this works?)

And what if the OP tells him that the agreed rental rate was €1 per month, and that he only owes €2? Who is this supposed landlord to say that it wasn't, he wasn't party to the original agreement.

How is it anyway extortion? The OP did live there and didn't pay. So stole a service. Do you really think anybody would believe it was €1 to stay there?

You are making up stuff and outlandish possibilities.

The OP owes the money and admits it.

Grolschevik

Ray Palmer wrote: »

The OP owes the money and admits it.

But she doesn't know to whom she owes the money. There was a change of ownership during the period, and the person emailing her has refused to provide information to verify their ownership during the relevant period.

Koptain Liverpool

Ray Palmer wrote: »

You don't need a written contract to rent in Ireland. There is a contract just not written.

If he doesn't pay it is exactly the same as theft.

You tell him Ray. Yes OP you're a big thief :p

I love the way Landlord Ray always appears on these threads championing the rights of poor landlords against thieving tenants.

The fact is the landlord was a complete idiot in not ensuring rent was being paid by tenants. He can't come looking for rent a year later. No court in Europe would back him up. Yopu'd be mad in the head to even consider paying this OP.

Potatoeman

Ray Palmer wrote: »

How is it anyway extortion? The OP did live there and didn't pay. So stole a service. Do you really think anybody would believe it was €1 to stay there?

You are making up stuff and outlandish possibilities.

The OP owes the money and admits it.

Over a year is far too long to leave collecting rent especially since they were there for only two months.

Atlas_IRL

Just stop replying. Your in a different country and nothing will happen.

Ray Palmer

Potatoeman wrote: »

Over a year is far too long to leave collecting rent especially since they were there for only two months.

Still not extortion. The length of time they stayed means nothing they still owe. The LL could easily be trying to get the information of the original owner and it could take a year. The fact taxes have to be in soon is the most likely reason it has come up now

drumswan

Are you seriously saying the OP should hand over a grand based on nothing more than an email demanding it? She has no proof that this guy is the landlord.

How does the OP know its not one of the tenants with knowledge of the situation pulling a scam?

You post some embarrassing rubbish on here Ray, if every landlord carried on with your nonsense we'd all have to emigrate. Or worse, buy a house.

Ray Palmer

Grolschevik wrote: »

But she doesn't know to whom she owes the money. There was a change of ownership during the period, and the person emailing her has refused to provide information to verify their ownership during the relevant period.

Establishing the owner is reasonable asking for a contract is not! That is what the OP asked for not proof of ownership.

People here are advocating not paying at all. That is not a morally grey area or questionable issue it is simply wrong and illegal. Amazing how if this was a deposit people would be going on about how the LL should be hung drawn and quartered no matter the length of time.

market_garden

By law the new landlord should have the tenancy registered with the PTRB. It would be worth asking to see this tenancy agreement and check when it commenced. If it began after the OP left the property then the new landlord has no basis to suddenly turn up looking for outstanding rent due.

Koptain Liverpool

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Amazing how if this was a deposit people would be going on about how the LL should be hung drawn and quartered no matter the length of time.

Not if the tenant was such an idiot that they handed over a deposit without asking for a receipt of any kind and only came looking for it back a year after they'd left a property. I think most posters on here would be telling the tenant hard luck in that case.

Potatoeman

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Establishing the owner is reasonable asking for a contract is not! That is what the OP asked for not proof of ownership.

People here are advocating not paying at all. That is not a morally grey area or questionable issue it is simply wrong and illegal. Amazing how if this was a deposit people would be going on about how the LL should be hung drawn and quartered no matter the length of time.

It should have been settled when they moved out. The whole find a replacement is a redflag for the landlords involvement in the property. The person leaving might take anyone if stuck and they want their deposit back.

Ray Palmer

Potatoeman wrote: »

It should have been settled when they moved out. The whole find a replacement is a redflag for the landlords involvement in the property. The person leaving might take anyone if stuck and they want their deposit back.

You did get the bit about the house changing owners at the time. The current LL probably had no idea what was going on as it was meant to be managed by the previous LL who obviously didn't keep things in order

SHANAbert

After 12 months of no contact and him refusing to give you reasonable details and that you are from abroad I would not be handing over 1000 euro.

Lux23

For all the OP knows, this could be a tenant of the house looking to make a quick buck. They have absolutely no proof of who this person is so why hand over any amount of money to someone who won't prove who they are.

If it really is the landlord he should have no issue proving that he owned the property at the time.

My gut instinct is that it is him, but that the property wasn't in his name at the time but that he is hoping the tenants are dumb enough to fall for it.

Potatoeman

Ray Palmer wrote: »

You did get the bit about the house changing owners at the time. The current LL probably had no idea what was going on as it was meant to be managed by the previous LL who obviously didn't keep things in order

So it took him a year to find this out and act. Thats far too long to leave the situation.

Ray Palmer

Potatoeman wrote: »

So it took him a year to find this out and act. Thats far too long to leave the situation.

It could easily have taken a year for the other LL to give him the details is what I am saying. No fault of the current LL at all.

OP still owes the money it doesn't really matter it has taken a year.

Assuming it is actually the LL what reason does the OP to not pay?

Lemming

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Assuming it is actually the LL what reason does the OP to not pay?

If the new LL didn't take over the property until after the OP's tenancy was over; in which case it's a scam. As the OP has written it - and it's a little vague - it would appear that the new LL (running with your assumption) is unwillling to prove they are who they claim, which also doesn't do their credibility any favours.

Potatoeman

Ray Palmer wrote: »

It could easily have taken a year for the other LL to give him the details is what I am saying. No fault of the current LL at all.

OP still owes the money it doesn't really matter it has taken a year.

Assuming it is actually the LL what reason does the OP to not pay?

Sorry but a year is an unacceptable amount of time and this person only lived there for two months.