Excessive condensation on windows

NicoleL88

Hi all,

In the last few weeks but especially this week, the condensation on the windows in our flat in the evenings/nights/mornings is insane.

I am currently sitting (and freezing) with all the windows open trying to get rid of it but it doesn't seem to be helping.

We don't have heating on ever in our apartment, and even after wiping off the condensation and leaving the windows open it just builds up within a half hour. It's even started to cause mould and mildew on the windows, ledges and even our walls and shoes.

The windows aren't very well sealed as far as I can tell, when they're closed a draught still comes in and coming into winter now I'm dreading how cold it's going to get (we moved in in April).

What can we do? Do the windows need to be replaced? We rent the apartment and have to go through the letting agency if there's an issue and they take bloody ages to sort anything out so would really appreciate advice on how to sort this quickly.

One shot on kill

Do you dry cloths on your rads.
Are there room vents in your rooms.

NicoleL88

One shot on kill wrote: »

Do you dry cloths on your rads.
Are there room vents in your rooms.

No, the radiators are never turned on. We have one clothes horse (small) which is left under an open window to dry.

There are no vents except in the bathroom.

Billy Bunting

You need a dehumidifier.

One shot on kill

Maybe try turning on the rads to dry the place out a bit.

fergal.b

Do you have a fish tank or a lot of indoor plants, are the windows aluminium?.






.

NicoleL88

Billy Bunting wrote: »

You need a dehumidifier.

I've had the condensation/mold/mildew issue in apartments before, a dehumidifier didn't do anything except increase our ESB bill!

One shot on kill wrote: »

Maybe try turning on the rads to dry the place out a bit.

Wouldn't this make the issue worse?

fergal.b wrote: »

Do you have a fish tank or a lot of indoor plants, are the windows aluminium?

No fish tank and zero plants. No idea if the windows are aluminium or not.

Here's some pics. Please note that the windows were clean when going to bed the night before, in the morning (less than 8 hours later) they looked like this:





Took these two just now

fergal.b

I could be wrong but they look like aluminium making them a good conductor of hot and cold, you could try a dehumidifier like said above but other than that I can't offer a solution.
Sorry.



.

Call me Al

I would have thought warm air would hold more water vapour in it, hence it wouldn't cool sufficiently to condense on a cold surface.

dpofloinn

The best way to reduce condensation on the internal face of the window is to collect the water vapour at source,for example when you are cooking in the kitchen make sure to turn on the extractor fan,if you use a tumble dryer open a window when its running or when you are showering make sure that the bathroom extractor is working it may sound like its working but the vent pipe can often be blocked or water loged if its installed wrong. It is also advisable to heat and ventilate the premises adequately ie: keep the rooms warm but allow some of the heat to dissipate by leaving some room doors open as you don't appear to have room vents

NicoleL88

dpofloinn wrote: »

The best way to reduce condensation on the internal face of the window is to collect the water vapour at source,for example when you are cooking in the kitchen make sure to turn on the extractor fan,if you use a tumble dryer open a window when its running or when you are showering make sure that the bathroom extractor is working it may sound like its working but the vent pipe can often be blocked or water loged if its installed wrong. It is also advisable to heat and ventilate the premises adequately ie: keep the rooms warm but allow some of the heat to dissipate by leaving some room doors open as you don't appear to have room vents

Extractor fan is always turned on whenever we use the hobs/grill/oven.

Bathroom window is always open (our washer dryer is located there too)

Room doors are always left open in our apartment.

dpofloinn

Ok so next questions would be are you 100% sure that the extractor vents are clear. Do you have mechanical ventilation in the bathroom ie a fan.Is this problem localised to one room or is it in every room,and how close is the bathroom to the room(s) that are showing condensation

NicoleL88

We only have three rooms in the apartment, bathroom, bedroom and kitchen/living room.

Surprisingly enough, the bathroom is the best out of the lot! No damp, no mould or mildew.

Bathroom is in the middle of the apartment, bedroom to the left, kitchen and living room to the right.

dpofloinn

ok so then when the shower is in use does a large volume of steam build up before it can be ventilated

NicoleL88

Nope, the window is always left open (and the vent is by the window too) when the shower is in use so it goes straight out.

evolving_doors

Put a lunch box half filled with salt under the window..if it's not too excessive it should absorb the condensation..but then again it mightnt work if the air gaps are bad in the windows....worth a try!

NicoleL88

Thanks Armelodie, I'll give it a go right now!

gctest50

Could you get your clothes dried somewhere nearby until you get it sorted ?

NicoleL88

gctest50 wrote: »

Could you get your clothes dried somewhere nearby until you get it sorted ?

Thanks but that's really not a practical solution for myself or my partner.

dpofloinn

walls, furniture, carpets and so on will have absorbed moisture while the house was unheated, especially if the weather was damp. For few days, try to keep windows open as much as possible while raising the internal temperature . Keep bathroom doors closed when showering run the cooker extractor fan for longer than you normaly would it will all help to remove moisture from the appatment and things should improve for you after that

MicktheMan

dpofloinn wrote: »

walls, furniture, carpets and so on will have absorbed moisture while the house was unheated, especially if the weather was damp. For few days, try to keep windows open as much as possible while raising the internal temperature . Keep bathroom doors closed when showering run the cooker extractor fan for longer than you normaly would it will all help to remove moisture from the appatment and things should improve for you after that

^^^^That's good advice.
Basically you need to:
1. Reduce the moisture load
2. Improve the ventilation
3. Increase the heating

Here is a leaflet with bit more info:

NicoleL88

Thanks a million everyone. I really thought that increasing the heating would make the problem worse!

ravendude

We have a similar problem, - we've managed to keep the heating off until now (trying to hold off giving the utility companies their blood money), and have a lot of condensation at the moment as a result. I expect it will not be quite so bad when the heating goes on. We have a few heavy roman blinds and always get condensation behind these, - as the air is obviously colder behind the blinds.
I recently started using one of these to get the condensation off the windows, - doesn't solve the problem of course, - but its better than soaking 2 or 3 towels.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/K%C3%A4rcher-WV60-Window-Vac-Cleaning/dp/B009PN0WCO
It sucks the condensation straight off the windows, - great yoke altogether.... You'd be suprised how much water comes off, - you're talking a good litre or two - at least this way its not evaporating back into the air. Airing/Venitaltion and heating is the key though.

If you want to spend the money for the long term look at getting a single room HRV unit.

teelady

All the last few bits of advice are excellent but do make sure that your cooker extractor fan is actually connected to the outside ie the moisture leaves the flat. A lot of places have the useless recirculating ones, where, unfortunately, you think you're expelling the moisture and you are only redistributing it around the flat.

You can check by getting up and looking at the top of the cabinets and checking a pipe is going out an external wall.

Also. a dehumidifier will, as it takes the moisture out of the air, increase the air temp in the flat, so it's up to you to work out - which is cheaper - it or heating.

Hope it all gets sorted,
All the best,
Tee

vanman99

I have similar problems, NicoleL88 did you ever get this under control? I live in a very old small cottage built pre 1940 and renovated on a shoe string 15 years ago. All rooms in the house at one point had an open fire, i say all rooms, there are 4 original rooms with a kitchen and bathroom added later. The fireplaces have been closed off and room vents put in but these are useless. We have puddles of water on a daily basis at the front of the house, on the windows and the very corners of the room seem to get the worst, with black mould growing on the carpet with condensation dripping off the wall, these must be the coldest spots, also on the front door, you could fill a kettle every morning with the water on it. The dryer is in the shed, we have 3 very good humidifiers on the go 24-7 and an extractor fan in the kitchen at the back of the house which is also left on as much as possible...you can imagine the ESB bills..The rooms have very high ceilings and black mould appears in the corners continuously, like Nicole the best room is probably the bathroom. After almost 10 years of living here i have had it with condensation and need a solution, we've changed the windows over insulated the loft, changed the doors, have a wood burning stove in the middle of the house keeping the place warm, of course this level of condensation only occurs in the winter months when it's cold outside and we have the heating on and the fire but with the high ceilings it is near impossible to maintain a constant temperature. Any solution anyone can offer, i'm following all the usual advice, extractor fans, drying clothes, humidifiers but not making a dent. I have a very young baby, can't leave the heat off. Also have fears for the babies health and my own with that amount of moisture in the air. Any one know a good company that will conduct a survey of some sort to try and determine the best solution?? Or anyone know if the Heat Recovery Ventilation systems are worth the money?? Thanks.

NicoleL88

Hi VanMan!

Well we have the storage heater turned on overnight so that it pumps out heat all the next day. Zero condensation because of that until you use the hobs, then a crazy amount of it builds up in a matter of minutes!

The bedroom is a disaster zone, two of the walls are leaking and growing black mould. Someone is coming up tomorrow to sort it out. Knocking down the wall was mentioned, but not sure what will happen. Basically, rain was seeping into the walls from outside. We were almost going to move out this weekend but we're going to wait and see what happens.

I hope you find a solution to your problem VM.

MicktheMan

vanman99 wrote: »

1.Any one know a good company that will conduct a survey of some sort to try and determine the best solution??
2.Or anyone know if the Heat Recovery Ventilation systems are worth the money??

1. PM sent
2. In the right situation, yes

vanman99

Sweet Jebus, that sounds very serious Nicole, hope you get a solution..

vanman99

Thanks Mick, Pm received, will take a look. Was about to buy some trickle vents as a start, any thoughts??

MicktheMan

vanman99 wrote: »

Thanks Mick, Pm received, will take a look. Was about to buy some trickle vents as a start, any thoughts??

Depends really on the size / scope of the problem. They won't do any harm! The following need to be understood to properly address:
Moisture load,
Thermal bridging, insulation effectiveness
Thermal mass
Heating cycle / regime
Ventilation strategy
Occupant behaviour
Occupant knowledge and understanding (in my experience, very often the most important):)

jack of all

This has been well covered in the good answers you've already received, but I'll give my tuppence worth. When I worked in construction for a developer years ago we would often get call-outs from disgruntled new apartment and house owners who thought they were living in substandard dwellings because of issues with condensation. In most cases any issues with excessive condensation were entirely related to the way the occupants lived in their dwelling- trickle or passive room vents were closed or blocked off, clothes were aired indoors with windows closed and in many instances windows were never opened during the day as people were at work. Often times extract fans were of the recirculation type with carbon filters (fine for removing grease and odours but water vapour remains in the kitchen/ dining space) and people would sleep with windows closed at night. Invariably heating was inadequate and this coupled with poor or no ventilation would quickly result in condensation and mould problems. Consider this- if you sit in your car on a cold day with the windows closed, the engine cold with no heating on the windows will quickly fog up! The solution to the OPs problem is to improve the heating and ventilation and pay particular attention to ventilation when cooking, showering or doing the laundry. Condensation and mould issues were less of a concern in houses built 25 or thirty years ago as construction standards of the time dictated that there was always plenty of passive ventilation in dwellings from draughty windows and doors, open fire place and gaps in building fabric and very little insulation if any. Lifestyles and living patterns have changed also, all adding to the mix.

mad m

@jackofall.

Text book answer which was great btw. But my experience with tenants etc was after telling them exactly what you said plus give them a homebond booklet on it. I was getting the rabbit in headlights stare, then "yeah but what about the mould" " I don't put washing on radiators" I turn around and washing is on radiators " oh that's my first time to do it, it's raining outside" the bottom of radiator is rusting from clothes over a long period of time....:rolleyes:

@ NicoleL88

that's a serious amount of condensation on those windows...The area space of those windows seems huge to me, it's like an outside wall but instead of a block wall it's glass and aluminium. Have you knocked into any of your neighbours to see if they have same problem?

cerastes

NicoleL88 wrote: »

No, the radiators are never turned on. We have one clothes horse (small) which is left under an open window to dry.

There are no vents except in the bathroom.

problem here

NicoleL88 wrote: »

Extractor fan is always turned on whenever we use the hobs/grill/oven.

Bathroom window is always open (our washer dryer is located there too)

Room doors are always left open in our apartment.

Id close the internal doors

NicoleL88 wrote: »

Thanks a million everyone. I really thought that increasing the heating would make the problem worse!

Not heating the place means the cooler air cannot absorb as much moisture, the water vapour is then condensing on cold surfaces.
For the sake of your own health, clean those windows.
Since the cold weather, I have found there is condensation on the windows of rooms in use in the morning, ie bedroom, even though the blinds are down and curtains are closed. In the morning, I use a cheap window cleaner with a rubber strip and wipe off the excess moisture, and soak it up with a towel thats going for the wash, but I turn on the heat a few times a day for 30 mins to keep the warmth in the place, plus, drying clothes in an unventilated or badly ventilated room without heating isnt going to work/help this problem.

deandean

Hi OP,

I am fairly sure I know what is causing all the condensation. I have a similar set of windows myself which were installed several years ago while an extension was being added to my house.

Those window frames are of aluminium. There is no thermal break between the inside of the frame and the outside of the frame. What is happening is that the inside surfaces of the frames are becoming almost as cold at night as the outside surfaces and therefore condensation is developing.

To stop condensation developing on the inside of your window frames you have two options:
(1) reduce the relative humidity of the air inside your house/apartment. This is well covered in previous posts, e.g. good ventilation, avoiding drying towels on radiators etc; and/or

(2) increase the temperature of the inside surface of the window frames. you can do this by one of two methods - either (2a) replace the windows with a better product which has a thermal break, or (2b) insulate the inside of the frames.

Option (2b) is worth a go, in particular with your bedroom window where you spend a lot of time. So go to Woodies or B&Q and purchase rolls of 50 mm wide bubble wrap foil insulation. This looks like two outer layers of aluminium foil with a layer of bubble wrap in between. Get the self adhesive version if you can, else buy double-sided adhesive tape or spray mount. Clean the window frames on the inside and just stick this insulation onto the inside surfaces of the window frames. End of condensation.

An alternative, which I have used, is to add secondary internal glazing. This involves adding another pane of glass (I used polycarbonate) inside your window frame. It completely excludes all drafts and completely stops condensation problems on your existing Windows. However it is best suited to windows that are not regularly opened, as it is a pain in the behind to be regularly removing the secondary glazing to open the window. Google it for more details.

Best of luck!

Dean

Heataholic

You don't say whether the windows are single glazed or double glazed! If they are of single pane only - then the heat (if any is being used) is being generated in the room/s and will go to the coldest point and this is (in your case) most likely the window/s - hence the build up of condensation!

You may need to consider double glazing the windows or Secondary glazing them if they are single glazed. Are the walls insulated? If not then there may be moisture build on the walls and this is showing on the windows! Walls should be insulated by means of Cavity Insulation External Insulation or Dry Lining internally.

Meantime, as a short term measure, you may have to consider a Dehumidifier to extract some of the moisture out of the air: as continuing in this atmosphere may not be good for your health or for the room/s themselves as moisture lodges in carpets, drawers, clothes etc unnoticed leaving a foul smell.

mad m

^^ by the picture it looks like 24mm double glazed.

Heataholic

Has to do with ventilation so by the looks of things.

kevgaa

Hi Folks,

I'm having a similar problem with Mould in bedrooms. After a bit of investigation I see the wardrobes are blocking the bedroom vent and I cant seem to find a vent in the Kitchen.

Anyone know anyone in the Dublin area I can get to look at the issue and see if my assumptions are correct, treat the moss and maybe help rectify the issue by installing a few vents for me?

Thanks
Kev.

MicktheMan

pm sent

2011

NicoleL88 wrote: »

There are no vents except in the bathroom

No vents? This is your problem! This is also why your bathroom (despite the shower) is not a problem. It is also why building regulations require room vents.

You say that you dry clothes in the apartment. Where do you think the water from the clothes goes?


Edit: I have just seen that this has been better answered by Jack of all above.

kevgaa

Thanks,

On further investigation I found vents but when i looked at the kitchen vent outside it is blocked by cement. The other room with an issue is the bedroom and when i look at the vent inside its fine beside the wardrobe but it doesn't line up with the outside about a foot apart by my calculations. Is that a big issue if its a cavity wall?

Anyone I can use to get rid of the mould nothing I try seems to work. Before you say it I know the source needs to be treated first.

Thanks
Kev.