Limiting the number of foreign players the EPL

rob316

Anyone watching this on sky sports news today. Coming accross very Xenophobic imo. Foreign players are what made that league great. Even Gerard was throwing out stupid comments aswell something along the lines of " I think its a good idea we limit the amount of foreigners coming into the country".

They are blaming foreigners as to why england's international football is so poor and constantly underachieving. Stupid.

Amirani

It's against EU law, pretty much nothing they can do about it.

rob316

NiallSparky wrote: »

It's against EU law, pretty much nothing they can do about it.

Thats what I thought too, its like any company can't limit how many foreigners working for them.

The guys on Sky were pretty funny. Apparently it's not the really good players they dislike, it's the more middle-of-the-road players who teams only have because they're cheaper than similar English players. If so then the English players need to justify why they should get paid more than a foreigner on a similar level who's willing to relocate to another country.

Fr Tod Umptious

It was tried in the early 90s but did not last due to EU competition law.
Not sure how they can get around it this time unless some hot shot lawyer comes up with a loophole

GTR63

rob316 wrote: »

Anyone watching this on sky sports news today. Coming across very Xenophobic imo. Foreign players are what made that league great. Even Gerard was throwing out stupid comments aswell something along the lines of " I think its a good idea we limit the amount of foreigners coming into the country".

They are blaming foreigners as to why england's international football is so poor and constantly underachieving. Stupid.

Not having ago at you but i`ve always thought that. BBC go out of their way on MOTD too to talk up English players too, a lot more than even last year. Compensating for all that "underachieving" I guess.

rob316

Clubs buy foreign because you can't buy an english player for what they are actually worth. Prices are massively inflated

greendom

The EPL is barely English anymore anyway .Foreign owned with as many foreign managers as English. Foreign supporters far outnumber their English counterparts. I don't necessarily thing this is a bad thing for the English national team as it means the indigenous players who are good enough to get into the top sides are playing with and against some of the best players in the World.

If the Sky money hadn't come into English football in the early 90s, England may have become a complete backwater in World Football. Post Hillsborough, Heysel Bradford, the whole thing could have fallen into a massive decline.

flazio

Heck, the EPL is only 90% English clubs.

thebaz

perhaps English (and Irish and Scottish) players should practice more , and become more proficient in ther trade, and then also re-evaluate ther over inflated value , before moaning about foreigners , taking ther sterling 5 figure weekly jobs , yeah I've feck all sympathy.

Amirani

thebaz wrote: »

perhaps English (and Irish and Scottish) players should practice more , and become more proficient in ther trade, and then also re-evaluate ther over inflated value , before moaning about foreigners , taking ther sterling 5 figure weekly jobs , yeah I've feck all sympathy.

I think the "value" issue is more about transfer fees than wages.

kryogen

rob316 wrote: »

Anyone watching this on sky sports news today. Coming accross very Xenophobic imo. Foreign players are what made that league great. Even Gerard was throwing out stupid comments aswell something along the lines of " I think its a good idea we limit the amount of foreigners coming into the country".

They are blaming foreigners as to why england's international football is so poor and constantly underachieving. Stupid.

Well, they are kind of running out of things to blame for their continual failure

kryogen

NiallSparky wrote: »

I think the "value" issue is more about transfer fees than wages.

Its all encompassing though, the whole package has to be looked at, that includes transfer fee and wage.

It seems to be significantly cheaper to look abroad, both in terms of initial outlay, and subsequent wages.

Dempsey

Extremely short sighted management by the governing bodies coming back to bite them on the ass. The warning signs were there over a decade ago.

The media reaction is embarrassing for English football

NiallSparky

NiallSparky wrote: »

I think the "value" issue is more about transfer fees than wages.

Forgo sign-on bonuses and the like then. The issue is obviously coaching and it's been pointed out for years and keeps getting pointed out without being properly addressed, they prefer to keep on blaming the foreigners.
I don't really buy the fee being a big deal either, the sell-on fee will be higher as well which should cover it.

larchielads

does any other country limit the amount of foreigners allowed in their leagues? Germany Spain Holland Italy? i dont think so! england wanna emulate these other countries set ups to produce young talent maybe they should emulate them by not limiting the foreigners and actually putting the structures in place to produce the talent. spain germany etc have set somethin up and produced the goods without limiting the foreigners.

if young english players arent good enough its no one elses fault only englands for not puttin money time and effort into it!! NOT THE FOREIGNERS FAULT!!!!!!!

titan18

Could do it with non-EU players, but couldn't prevent any rules within the EU unless England withdrew from that.

Richard Hillman

The league can be bad enough to watch as it is at times with the teams on tv quota. It they limited the amount of good players and promoted more players from the championship it would be unwatchable.

dsmythy

titan18 wrote: »

Could do it with non-EU players, but couldn't prevent any rules within the EU unless England withdrew from that.

Would still be a discrimination ruling on it.

DerekDGoldfish

dsmythy wrote: »

Would still be a discrimination ruling on it.

In Italy they are limited to signing 1 non EU player (from outside the league) per year

SherlockWatson

2m in Spain gets you a Michu.

You'd be lucky to get a Cattermole in England for 2m.

titan18

dsmythy wrote: »

Would still be a discrimination ruling on it.

They do it in Italy, Russian league also has a rule where a team can only have 7 foreign players on the pitch at the same time.

Iused2likebusts

This is yet another ridiculous excuse trotted out as to why england dont ever look like winning the big tournaments. What about the early 90s when there was hardly any foreign players in the league. Euro 92 they lost every game and wouldnt have even qualified had we not blown a 2 goal lead in poland late on. Usa 94 they didnt even qualify for the world cup. Back then they were probably saying we need to have a league like Italy with lots of foreigners so our players get used to playing with foreign players with different styles.
I would say the opposite is true the foreign players have improved the league so for an english player to breakthrough they have to raise there standard which can only improve the national team.
They are a deluded football nation and like ourselves dont have the technique to compete at the very top level the way football has evolved over the last 10-15 years.

double GG

FA commission member Danny Mills has told Sky Sports News Radio that the Premier League must limit the amount of foreigners if they want the national team to improve.

Mills, who joined the FA's recently-formed commission to look into the future of the game on Wednesday, spoke of his concerns regarding the lack of home-grown players in the Premier League and has called for restrictions to be put in place if they want to compete in future international tournaments.

He told Sky Sports News Radio: "If you limit the amount of foreign players, then clubs will start seeing a drip-down effect and think 'where are we going to get all these English players from?'

"If teams like Man City and Chelsea want a first-team of top class foreigners - not a problem. For me, it's the foreigners that aren't great and aren't any better than the English players, but they are cheaper and that's why clubs go for them.

"By limiting the amount of foreign players allowed to go into clubs, they will then have to go into local communities and provide better coaching, start providing coaches with better back-up and start educating local coaches better to find the talent.

"By limiting the amount of foreign players allowed to go into clubs, they will then have to go into local communities and provide better coaching, start providing coaches with better back-up and start educating local coaches better to find the talent."
Danny Mills
"There is talent out there but it's not being managed or coached particularly well."

Mills also highlighted the importance of grassroots football and believed that the reason England are falling behind rival nations is due to a lack of progression, which needs to be addressed from the bottom.

"Start at grassroots level and start getting kids to play the right way and it'll grow all the way through the system.

"This will take seven or eight years, at least, before all of this comes to fruition. People are going to have to be patient with it," he added.

"The world has moved on and everyone is better technically and they're now far superior to when I was playing.

"If we continue to stand still, we will fall behind. We have to be progressive and we have an opportunity to make some brave decisions, rip the rule book up and start again."

Mills also chipped into the debate regarding national eligibility, believing that there should be more clarity as to who can and who cannot play for England.

"If you were not in this country before you were five years old, before you went to school and your parents and grandparents are not English, I don't think you should be allowed to play for England," he said.

Mills has also warned that some of the decisions the commission agrees on will not be universally well-received, but insists that they will be made with good intent.

"If you want change for the better, you have to enforce that change and that is going to upset people," he admitted.

"Things are broken. If we carry on, it's only going to get worse. We have to make change and we have to make it now.

"If you want to change something badly enough and you want it to happen, then it will happen."

Did he really say this?

mikeym

And if this limit on foreigners were to apply to premier league clubs how would it apply to Welsh clubs Cardiff City and Swansea City?

The foreigners have made the premier league what it is today.

Dempsey

double GG wrote: »

Did he really say this?

He also taunted Gary Lineker to come out of the MOTD studio and think up with better ideas. He's not exactly giving him a tough task!

PhlegmyMoses

I'm fairness, the logic is sound enough in that being forced to play English players would shift the focus onto coaching and developing youth. As it stands, it is easier to buy Michu for 2m than revamp your whole coaching and youth system. The UK has a big enough population, with football the most popular sport, and enough money to develop excellent coaches and players.

You could argue that the foreign players help with different ideas and young players can learn from them but they're not suggesting to completely eradicate foreign plays from their game. The reason why this proposal is retarded is that it is completely against European worker migration laws so could never be implemented.

Richard Hillman

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

I'm fairness, the logic is sound enough in that being forced to play English players would shift the focus onto coaching and developing youth. As it stands, it is easier to buy Michu for 2m than revamp your whole coaching and youth system. The UK has a big enough population, with football the most popular sport, and enough money to develop excellent coaches and players.

You could argue that the foreign players help with different ideas and young players can learn from them but they're not suggesting to completely eradicate foreign plays from their game. The reason why this proposal is retarded is that it is completely against European worker migration laws so could never be implemented.

Whilst not being an expert on European Worker Migration, could there be a case of saying clubs can employ and play as many foreign players as they want BUT they will not receive 3 points for a win or even altering the points system to award bonus points for teams compliant with a certain % of English players.

Surely the EU cannot dictate the points system of a sporting league. The EPL would probably have to get rid of the bonuses for league positions and distribute cash elsewhere.

simongurnick

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Whilst not being an expert on European Worker Migration, could there be a case of saying clubs can employ and play as many foreign players as they want BUT they will not receive 3 points for a win or even altering the points system to award bonus points for teams compliant with a certain % of English players.

Surely the EU cannot dictate the points system of a sporting league. The EPL would probably have to get rid of the bonuses for league positions and distribute cash elsewhere.

They probably could. Players earn bonuses based off wins and league standings, therefore this would effect compensation and be in contravention of the aforementioned EU ruling.

764dak

larchielads wrote: »

does any other country limit the amount of foreigners allowed in their leagues? Germany Spain Holland Italy? i dont think so! england wanna emulate these other countries set ups to produce young talent maybe they should emulate them by not limiting the foreigners and actually putting the structures in place to produce the talent. spain germany etc have set somethin up and produced the goods without limiting the foreigners.

if young english players arent good enough its no one elses fault only englands for not puttin money time and effort into it!! NOT THE FOREIGNERS FAULT!!!!!!!

Brazilian League limits clubs to 5 foreign players. I think many leagues in Asia restrict the number of foreigners. China limits clubs to 5 foreign players and an extra 2 if

dsmythy wrote: »

Would still be a discrimination ruling on it.

England, Spain and Italy already have discrimination against non-EU players. In England, non-EU players have to play 75% of their national team games over the past 2 years as well as their national team have to be ranked an average of at worst 70 over this period. If the player does not meet the criteria he would have to be judged to be of certain quality that would benefit the development of English/Welsh football.

Spain limits clubs to 3 non-EU/ACP players per season. Italy limits clubs to 3 non-EU/EFTA/Swiss players per season.

PhlegmyMoses

764dak wrote: »

Italy limits clubs to 3 non-EU/EFTA/Swiss players per season.

How do Inter get around this? They have around 10 Argentinians alone, let alone a few Brazilians, the likes of Guarin and Mariga etc. Fast-tracked passports or something? They've only a handful of Italians.

Edit: Or am I reading this right? Can they add 3 more per season, on top of their existing players, or can they only register 3 per season?

764dak

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

How do Inter get around this? They have around 10 Argentinians alone, let alone a few Brazilians, the likes of Guarin and Mariga etc. Fast-tracked passports or something? They've only a handful of Italians.

Edit: Or am I reading this right? Can they add 3 more per season, on top of their existing players, or can they only register 3 per season?

They say around 1/3 of people in Argentina have Italian grandparents so they can get Italian passports. A lot of them lie though. Also, if you play in Spain or Italy for 2 years (I think it's 2 years for footballers) you can apply for citizenship. For example, Ronaldinho gained Spanish citizenship to allow his team to acquire more non-EU players.

titan18

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

How do Inter get around this? They have around 10 Argentinians alone, let alone a few Brazilians, the likes of Guarin and Mariga etc. Fast-tracked passports or something? They've only a handful of Italians.

Edit: Or am I reading this right? Can they add 3 more per season, on top of their existing players, or can they only register 3 per season?

It's confusing. I think it's that if they have less than 3, they can sign to get to 3 from any non-Italian team. If they have more, the only way they can sign someone non-EU is if they sign them from an Italian club. Then with a lot of South Americans being able to claim Spanish or Italian passports, you can give much more than 3 in the side. With co-ownership aswell in Serie A, sides can get around it

Ulysses Gaze

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

This is yet another ridiculous excuse trotted out as to why england dont ever look like winning the big tournaments. What about the early 90s when there was hardly any foreign players in the league. Euro 92 they lost every game and wouldnt have even qualified had we not blown a 2 goal lead in poland late on. Usa 94 they didnt even qualify for the world cup. Back then they were probably saying we need to have a league like Italy with lots of foreigners so our players get used to playing with foreign players with different styles.
I would say the opposite is true the foreign players have improved the league so for an english player to breakthrough they have to raise there standard which can only improve the national team.
They are a deluded football nation and like ourselves dont have the technique to compete at the very top level the way football has evolved over the last 10-15 years.

You can go back even further to the 1970's and 1980's when English clubs were dominant in Europe and the league was certainly not full of foreigners. The English team was still pants then.

Charlie19

It could be argued that its also holding the Irish team back. Theres not too many Irish lads now featuring in the EPL compared to 10 years ago, found this post from just over ten years ago.




Re: Ireland squad
Quote:
Originally posted by KdjaC
Argh thread about irish football !!!!!


4 players in CL
2 in Uefa
10 in Prem
Rest in Div 1 or about to be Div 1.

kdjac
I reckon we have 16 in the Premiership.
Given
Cunningham
Carr
O Shea
O Brien
Harte
Finnan
Dunne
Holland
Reid
Kinsella
Duff
Carsley
Keane
Morrison
Doherty

Thats a healthy amount. Out of those 16 you could only say that Doherty will not get many games this season. The rest I can see playing in over 15 - 20 games
Delap is not there either and he should play most games for Southampthon this season.

ciaranmac

titan18 wrote: »

Could do it with non-EU players, but couldn't prevent any rules within the EU unless England withdrew from that.

They already do this - Non-EU players have to get work permits, which they only give out to players who are regular internationals.

bohsman

Charlie19 wrote: »

It could be argued that its also holding the Irish team back. Theres not too many Irish lads now featuring in the EPL compared to 10 years ago, found this post from just over ten years ago.

Are the Irish for the most part not the middle of the road type players they want to kick out?

Pepe LeFrits

The reason English players are so expensive is because there are so few of them of sufficient ability. They're **** and lowering the quality of the league so that more Englishmen can play won't improve them, it'll only reduce competition and weaken all the players left playing in it.

It's staggering that so much media time is being given to those who actually think flooding the Premiership with Championship players would be a good thing.

Charlie19

bohsman wrote: »

Are the Irish for the most part not the middle of the road type players they want to kick out?

Don't think that the Irish are widely regarded as foreigners, I think its more mainland Europeans in this case.

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

The reason English players are so expensive is because there are so few of them of sufficient ability. They're **** and lowering the quality of the league so that more Englishmen can play won't improve them, it'll only reduce competition and weaken all the players left playing in it.

It's staggering that so much media time is being given to those who actually think flooding the Premiership with Championship players would be a good thing.

I thought it was because of the homegrown rule that added to the price of British players.

rob316

The fa biggest problem will be getting the premier league to play ball. They don't give a toss about the national team there priority is there multi billion pound product.

They need to rehaul the entire philosophy and coaching structure. The English and irish do not produce technical players. That is the way the game has gone and that is why both countries fall so far behind the rest.

I watch my younger cousins play in different teams and all the teams just lump the ball forward. You still hear 'get rid of it' from the sidelines, why not just pass it or run with it?

764dak

Charlie19 wrote: »

It could be argued that its also holding the Irish team back.Theres not too many Irish lads now featuring in the EPL compared to 10 years ago , found this post from just over ten years ago.




Re: Ireland squad
Quote:
Originally posted by KdjaC
Argh thread about irish football !!!!!


4 players in CL
2 in Uefa
10 in Prem
Rest in Div 1 or about to be Div 1.

kdjac
I reckon we have 16 in the Premiership.
Given
Cunningham
Carr
O Shea
O Brien
Harte
Finnan
Dunne
Holland
Reid
Kinsella
Duff
Carsley
Keane
Morrison
Doherty

Thats a healthy amount. Out of those 16 you could only say that Doherty will not get many games this season. The rest I can see playing in over 15 - 20 games
Delap is not there either and he should play most games for Southampthon this season.

I actually said something similar last month.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=86477772&postcount=960

764dak

Charlie19 wrote: »

I thought it was because of the homegrown rule that added to the price of British players.

I saw a comment on an article a few days ago and it caught my attention:

"that's funny considering Rio's expensive transfer made it impossible to buy english players again. so Rio, talk to us about how He joined £30 million was paid for you, which has never before been paid for any player in English football, let alone an injury-prone defender."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2414962/Rio-Ferdinand-There-minimum-number-English-players-Premier-League-teams.html#ixzz2hlWgVAZ2
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Charlie19

764dak wrote: »

I actually said something similar last month.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=86477772&postcount=960

Starting XI tonight only had 5 EPL players, granted there was a couple on the bench and a couple in other "top" leagues but still some contrast from 2003.

Liam O

764dak wrote: »

I saw a comment on an article a few days ago and it caught my attention:

"that's funny considering Rio's expensive transfer made it impossible to buy english players again. so Rio, talk to us about how He joined £30 million was paid for you, which has never before been paid for any player in English football, let alone an injury-prone defender."

So Thiago Silva and Lucas must be making it impossible to buy Brazilian players then? Rio became one of the world's best defenders after that move and it definitely turned out to be value for money. He wasn't all that injury prone either.

rebelomar

Limiting the number of foreign players in the EPL. What would it achieve?

Yes the number of English players playing top flight football would increase but all it would do is give the English national side greater numbers to choose from but it would not lead to any increase in quality imo

It's not like any English kid as with real world class talent is not going to make the breakthrough. Such talent will always get a chance.

It's not like the the next Rooney or Wilshere isn't going to be spotted or given a chance because a club can sign a guy from Zimbabwe for 100k. Any manger will play the more talented player regardless of nationality.

All it would do is increase(talent wise) the number of Joey Bartons and Joleen Lescotts, you would NOT see more Rooneys, Gerrards etc imho

inforfun

It is for the clubs to sort this out.
In Holland, mostly because of financial reasons, a lot of clubs got wise and looked for talented Dutch players first before getting foreigners.

Feyenoord, almost bankrupt at the time, got rid of the expensive guys and dug out an entire new team from her youth academy. Added a loanee or 2 (John Guidetti) and the resurrection started.

Result is that every 2 weeks there is a team on the pitch in a full stadium that people recognise.
Ajax started to do the same 2 yaers ago, PSV this year.

it is the only way for England to get there as well but it is never going to happen as long as a newly promoted team gets £50 million from Sky.
That would be enough for Feyenoord to just run things for 2 full seasons.

Dutch teams pay the rent by having a great youth set up. English dont need to do this and will not waste time and money on it. And if they put some time and money in it, they just grab the young players from foreign teams again.

But lets hope they will never learn. I always like seeing England fail on tournaments.

Skylinehead

rebelomar wrote: »

Limiting the number of foreign players in the EPL. What would it achieve?

A European court case for one. I don't know why they're all coming out with this, when the law won't allow for it.

Fratton Fred

I think people are being short sighted in slating this idea, because it may have escaped your notice, but it's not just the English team that's crap at the moment.

The epl has too much money, so clubs can buy success rather than develop youth. This is affecting all five national teams on these islands because the epl traditionally scouted kids from all the countries.

Limiting the number of foreigners isn't the answer, but it is right the question is being asked.

Maybe limiting the foreign owners is the key, or even the foreign fans who demand that "we" win the league at all costs.

764dak

Liam O wrote: »

So Thiago Silva and Lucas must be making it impossible to buy Brazilian players then? Rio became one of the world's best defenders after that move and it definitely turned out to be value for money. He wasn't all that injury prone either.

Hardly anyone complains of how expensive Brazilian players are.

GTR63

Liam O wrote: »

So Thiago Silva and Lucas must be making it impossible to buy Brazilian players then? Rio became one of the world's best defenders after that move and it definitely turned out to be value for money. He wasn't all that injury prone either.

He cost Milan €10m

Skylinehead

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I think people are being short sighted in slating this idea, because it may have escaped your notice, but it's not just the English team that's crap at the moment.

The epl has too much money, so clubs can buy success rather than develop youth. This is affecting all five national teams on these islands because the epl traditionally scouted kids from all the countries.

Limiting the number of foreigners isn't the answer, but it is right the question is being asked.

Maybe limiting the foreign owners is the key, or even the foreign fans who demand that "we" win the league at all costs.

The reason why there's not enough talent in the English team/England in general isn't because of the foreigners (dey tukk urr jurbs), but because the coaching setup in England is terrible compared to, say, Germany or Spain. They're leagues behind, not only in ability but in number as well. Think it's 2,000 coaches that hold UEFA qualifications in England, compared to 20,000+ for all of Italy, Germany and Spain. Sort that out before going after the foreigners, when you're not even going to be able to stop the (EU) foreigners from coming in anyway.