The dangers of being reclusive

P_1

Found this article written in the Indo this evening.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/man-died-from-diet-of-crisps-wine-and-chocolate-inquest-told-29648987.html

I know that being reclusive does have some benefits (not having to put up with the general public being one), but there is the risk of something like this happening once you decide to totally disengage from society. You can't help but feel very sorry for the poor chap's family.

MyPeopleDrankTheSoup

more like the dangers of not feeding yourself. poor chap though, and poor family, sounds like they did their best.

nocoverart

P_1 wrote: »

Found this article written in the Indo this evening.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/man-died-from-diet-of-crisps-wine-and-chocolate-inquest-told-29648987.html

I know that being reclusive does have some benefits (not having to put up with the general public being one), but there is the risk of something like this happening once you decide to totally disengage from society. You can't help but feel very sorry for the poor chap's family.

HaHa, that would definitely be a big positive TBH.

Turtwig

Sounds a lot like the person had mental health issues. He had a passive death wish and didn't get any help. It's unfortunate but I don't think it has anything to do with being reclusive. I think it's more a case of an illness making him become reclusive (among many other things.)

Horrible experience for the family to have to go through.

lertsnim

Poor guy.

canadianwoman

Poor fellow.

Muise...

wine and cheese would be my death-diet of choice. Though I might have to be annoyingly sociable to get my fix at fancy receptions when my own money runs out.

4zn76tysfajdxp

He wasn't reclusive like most people who consider themselves recluses when they stay inside on a Saturday night watching Con Air with a six pack of Dutch Gold before **** the bollocks off themselves to Kylie Minogue videos from the late-90s, he was genuinely mentally ill and starved himself to death. He's not one of your commoner-garden pretend misanthropes.

SpaceTime

That's very sad reading.
RIP

P_1

Jernal wrote: »

Sounds a lot like the person had mental health issues. He had a passive death wish and didn't get any help. It's unfortunate but I don't think it has anything to do with being reclusive. I think it's more a case of an illness making him become reclusive (among many other things.)

Horrible experience for the family to have to go through.

True, horrible experience for the family, especially when it seems that the son just didn't want any help

dd972

RIP, sounds like he was completely consumed by Depression from what I've read about the poor chap.

returnNull

Heart breaking for the family.

vitani

That's sad reading. Poor guy - only 30 years old as well.

SpaceTime

Unfortunately sometimes situations like that can occur and it's absolutely tragic and it sounds like people were doing their best to help and just didn't get through at all.

I just think sometimes lads really need to ensure that they talk to each other too though. There's a lot to be said for being able to chat to your mates who are your peers.

I keep coming across really isolated guys just through work and people I vaguely know and stuff. I think more so than women, guys can sometimes actually completely fail to form strong friendships and I don't know why that is.

Also a lot of male interaction for some guys is really superficial grunting chats about sport or something really meaningless.
I don't know if it's that some guys think that being over friendly is a bit 'gay', they're too macho to let their guard down or they're just lacking social skills entirely but I think we really need to make more effort to actually be friendly to other guys sometimes and actually genuinely take a bit of interest in what's going on in their lives.

I'm not for a moment saying that's what happened here, but I just mean in general I think whether you're male or female, just keep an eye out for the non-talkative guys who can sometimes just need someone to have a chat with them about anything really.

Obviously you can get women in that situation too but I think women are usually better at talking things out.

If there's some lad at college or at work who is really isolated, bring him out for a pint or invite him to stuff.

I was a class rep a few times in college and I always made a huge effort to try and look out for people like that and make sure everyone got an invite out and got mixing and I still try to do that at work too.

You can't always avoid situations like this and some people have serious mental illnesses going on but I think there's no harm in just reaching out a bit and making sure that you occasionally reach out to people who may totally lack the social skills to do it on their own.

suicide_circus

Jovanni Thousands Spyglass wrote: »

He wasn't reclusive like most people who consider themselves recluses when they stay inside on a Saturday night watching Con Air with a six pack of Dutch Gold before **** the bollocks off themselves to Kylie Minogue videos from the late-90s, he was genuinely mentally ill and starved himself to death. He's not one of your commoner-garden pretend misanthropes.

ConAir is a great film.

boobar

Poor guy...rip....god help his family, heartbreaking when someone won't accept help

humbert

I think the dangers of depression would be a far less misleading title.

PizzamanIRL

The Pringles slogan is scarily true here.

Why did the family not intervene if he was visibly malnourished?

[-0-]

Very sad.

No electricity and no heat. What did he do with himself all day? I love to spend time away from the Internet, and I don't have a TV but I occupy myself with books. Was he just sitting there or what like?

hfallada

Sounds like big Edie from grey gardens. She was jackie o a cousin and she lived in a mansion on the beach in the hamptons, NY. When they were filming grey gardens, the camera men constantly found dead animals and animal **** all over the house. No one know little Edie was still alive

She had two marriage proposals from 2 men who were both in top 100 richest people in the world. But yet she lived in a **** filled house

SimonQuinlank

Replace crisps and wine with nature valley bars and bavaria and it's pretty similar direction to how my life is/has/will end up going.

Wattle

You can be reclusive and have a good diet. Also reclusiveness doesn't always = mental health problems.

ONeill2013

wouldn't you gain weight if you lived on junk food and coke? it said he was 8 1/2 stone.

From the article:

At one stage, he was involuntarily admitted to a psychiatric hospital. However, he was released when an independent consultant said no overt features of psychosis or depression could be found.

Classic.

PizzamanIRL

PizzamanIRL wrote: »

The Pringles slogan is scarily true here.

Why did the family not intervene if he was visibly malnourished?

How exactly?

wandatowell

a "lack of motivation to live toward the end of his life"

feckin hell

catallus

It really is scary to think that there are people like this up and down the country who don't meet the criteria of depression or psychosis.

I think it's scary because they voluntarily turn their backs on the world and live in a way which will probably kill them.

Like other posters on here my thoughts are with the family.

P.Walnuts

ONeill2013 wrote: »

wouldn't you gain weight if you lived on junk food and coke? it said he was 8 1/2 stone.

Depends on how much of it he was eating/drinking

I get the impression he had lost all will to even eat ( as can happen the best of us through hard times) and found sugar and snacks the easiest things to ingest...a box a pringles and a bottle of coke a day would soon leave you skin and bones.

PizzamanIRL

PizzamanIRL wrote: »

The Pringles slogan is scarily true here.

Why did the family not intervene if he was visibly malnourished?

Yeah, let's blame the relatives left behind. I'm sure that'll make them feel much better.

He was admitted to hospital (sectioned, basically) and released because he didn't seem depressed. So what were they supposed to have done? You can't force feed an adult.

P_1

PizzamanIRL wrote: »

The Pringles slogan is scarily true here.

Why did the family not intervene if he was visibly malnourished?

If you take the time to read the article you'd see that the deceased purposely avoided his father when he came around to check up on him. Not really much help you can give when the person you're trying to help is avoiding you.

titan18

Jovanni Thousands Spyglass wrote: »

He wasn't reclusive like most people who consider themselves recluses when they stay inside on a Saturday night watching Con Air with a six pack of Dutch Gold before **** the bollocks off themselves to Kylie Minogue videos from the late-90s, he was genuinely mentally ill and starved himself to death. He's not one of your commoner-garden pretend misanthropes.

What idiots think that's what being reclusive is?

Turtwig

PizzamanIRL wrote: »

The Pringles slogan is scarily true here.

Why did the family not intervene if he was visibly malnourished?

The person had seemingly learned to be helpless in those kind of situations it's very tough for a family to do anything. Some mental illnesses are really f**king nasty diseases.

catallus

Jernal wrote: »

The person had seemingly learned to be helpless in those kind of situations it's very tough for a family to do anything. Some mental illnesses are really f**king nasty diseases.

Why are people saying it's a mental illness? Maybe he was just sanely sick of life. I don't mean to be insensitive to the guy or especially his family, but he made the choice to do what he did.

P.Walnuts

catallus wrote: »

Why are people saying it's a mental illness? Maybe he was just sanely sick of life. I don't mean to be insensitive to the guy or especially his family, but he made the choice to do what he did.

Eh Depression is a mental illness?

P_1

catallus wrote: »

Why are people saying it's a mental illness? Maybe he was just sanely sick of life. I don't mean to be insensitive to the guy or especially his family, but he made the choice to do what he did.

P.Walnuts wrote: »

Eh Depression is a mental illness?

It is a tough and sensitive one to figure out alright. I'm not sure if disengaging totally from society is necessarily a mental illness or a symptom of one, feck knows I've had ideas of doing it myself at times to be honest.

Renegade Mechanic

PizzamanIRL wrote: »

The Pringles slogan is scarily true here.

Why did the family not intervene if he was visibly malnourished?

Simple. In this age people will ask you "How youre going", while praying to God you dont actually tell them.
In fact many will completely avoid you if theres an increased risk of you doing so.

catallus

A psychiatrist said "there was no overt sign of psychosis or depression" when he was involuntarily admitted to hospital.

The coroner said there were "psychological reasons" for his self-neglect, but depression wasn't mentioned.

The only one in the report mentioning depression is the journalist.

Turtwig

catallus wrote: »

Why are people saying it's a mental illness? Maybe he was just sanely sick of life. I don't mean to be insensitive to the guy or especially his family, but he made the choice to do what he did.

It's an assumption. He behaved in a way you'd associate a person of having one. Quitting his job. Not accepting help from family or friends. Living off savings to the point of being broke. Avoiding people who are offering to help him if they call round to visit. Rubbish diet. No motivation to change anything. General over all self-neglect.

Put simply, it's highly unlikely a sane person who's sick of life would choose to let themselves wilt away in such a manner. It's possible, of course.

titan18

Jernal wrote: »

It's an assumption. He behaved in a way you'd associate a person of having one. Quitting his job. Not accepting help from family or friends. Living off savings to the point of being broke. Avoiding people who are offering to help him if they call round to visit. Rubbish diet. No motivation to change anything. General over all self-neglect.

Put simply, it's highly unlikely a sane person who's sick of life would choose to let themselves wilt away in such a manner. It's possible, of course.

Maybe he was sane though. What's the point of living, working etc when all you do is earn to pay taxes and bills? Actually going through with killing yourself is hard, wasting away is a much easier, albeit slower death.

catallus

Jernal wrote: »

It's an assumption. He behaved in a way you'd associate a person of having one. Quitting his job. Not accepting help from family or friends. Living off savings to the point of being broke. Avoiding people who are offering to help him if they call round to visit. Rubbish diet. No motivation to change anything. General over all self-neglect.

Put simply, it's highly unlikely a sane person who's sick of life would choose to let themselves wilt away in such a manner. It's possible, of course.

It is a very irrational assumption to make, wouldn't you agree?

I think we see sane people do it every day, if we don't wilfully blind ourselves to it. There are so many people languishing in horrific circumstances, maybe the easiest way to deal with it is to tell each other that it is incomprehensible that someone would allow themselves to die in such a nihilistic manner.

Femme_Fatale

SpaceTime wrote: »

I just think sometimes lads really need to ensure that they talk to each other too though.

Yeh I noticed on the other thread about dealing with really tough situations that so many people (mostly guys) are filled with dread at the idea of counselling and spilling all to a stranger.
To me, that is a frightening obstacle. I've been for counselling and found it absolutely brilliant - didn't have a bother letting it all out as I know these are professionals who are sensitive and do not judge and you are in a safe, confidential environment.
I couldn't imagine not being able to go for that kind of help...

GreeBo

SpaceTime wrote: »

I just think sometimes lads really need to ensure that they talk to each other too though. There's a lot to be said for being able to chat to your mates who are your peers.

I think part of the problem is, much like an alcoholic, people who are not willing or able to ask for help are quite good at living an outwardly normal life. They may be all craic in the office and then go home and cry on their own.

Jernal wrote: »

It's an assumption. He behaved in a way you'd associate a person of having one. Quitting his job. Not accepting help from family or friends. Living off savings to the point of being broke. Avoiding people who are offering to help him if they call round to visit. Rubbish diet. No motivation to change anything. General over all self-neglect.

Put simply, it's highly unlikely a sane person who's sick of life would choose to let themselves wilt away in such a manner. It's possible, of course.

Being depressed doesnt make you insane. Its insane to not realise that a life like this will kill you; its not insane to just not care.

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Yeh I noticed on the other thread about dealing with really tough situations that so many people (mostly guys) are filled with dread at the idea of counselling and spilling all to a stranger.
To me, that is a frightening obstacle. I've been for counselling and found it absolutely brilliant - didn't have a bother letting it all out as I know these are professionals who are sensitive and do not judge and you are in a safe, confidential environment.
I couldn't imagine not being able to go for that kind of help...

I think for a lot of guys it came with the penis tbh.

titan18

Poor self esteem, bullying in childhood and adolescence often plays a part in being a recluse (at least it does for me). People will go, just go out and do something, you have to make an attempt but years of being put down, saying you're not good enough and people not making an effort back, at some point you just get fed up and give up. I'd love if people would contact me, but other than my parents and brothers, I'd be surprised if people knew I still existed. It might not be what the guy went through, but I wouldn't be surprised. Most people just don't care enough to bother.

I understand the article saying he gave up but didn't want to commit suicide. I mean I've attempted, but killing yourself is such a hard thing to do and you really have to be at your lowest, whereas being passive and eating yourself dead is easier, if slower.

Being reclusive and depression probably go hand in hand in a lot of cases,although are they both distinct or is one caused by the other is arguable. For me, I've always been quiet, but then the long periods of no social contact probably plays into the depression (think it's about been 3 and a half months since I've talked to someone other than family or a doctor). It's probably not healthy, but when you're at the point where your razor blades are your comfort and the last time someone contacted you to hang out was 8 months ago, you're pretty much past making an effort with people. It'd be great to be one of the people who can make friends with everyone and have great self-confidence, but not everyone can be that.

Turtwig

GreeBo wrote: »

Being depressed doesnt make you insane. Its insane to not realise that a life like this will kill you; its not insane to just not care.

Just to clarify this. I used sane in the context the poster I was replying to used it - not of sound mind i.e poor mental health. Just a basic assumption of a being under a perception 'fog' associated with depression or something similar. Absolutely somebody with a mental illness isn't necessarily insane, especially if one thinks of insane as the colloquial Homer Simpson Shining meaning of the word.

PhlegmyMoses

Jernal wrote: »

It's an assumption. He behaved in a way you'd associate a person of having one. Quitting his job. Not accepting help from family or friends. Living off savings to the point of being broke. Avoiding people who are offering to help him if they call round to visit. Rubbish diet. No motivation to change anything. General over all self-neglect.

Put simply, it's highly unlikely a sane person who's sick of life would choose to let themselves wilt away in such a manner. It's possible, of course.

I'd say he was depressed but I'm not sure that he knew he was killing himself. He probably didn't realise what he was doing to his body.

catallus

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Yeh I noticed on the other thread about dealing with really tough situations that so many people (mostly guys) are filled with dread at the idea of counselling and spilling all to a stranger.
To me, that is a frightening obstacle. I've been for counselling and found it absolutely brilliant - didn't have a bother letting it all out as I know these are professionals who are sensitive and do not judge and you are in a safe, confidential environment.
I couldn't imagine not being able to go for that kind of help...

A lot of people couldn't imagine going for that kind of help; an obvious advantage of spilling to professionals is that they can talk you through your problems. But try and imagine not wanting to talk about it because you realise it's not advice on your situation you need, but just a change of situation.

At the end of the day talk is just that: talk. It solves nothing.

We massage the truth in the language of therapy, ignoring the horrible unchangeable truth of the one truly unforgivable sin, despair.

It's not an explanation I would expect to have much traction here, but if the question is: why would someone kill themselves if they were not depressed or otherwise mentally unwell; well, there are other things going on in the world other than one's brain chemistry; it might well be despair, a totally untouchable capitulation to the darkness.

Femme_Fatale

catallus wrote: »

At the end of the day talk is just that: talk. It solves nothing.

We massage the truth in the language of therapy, ignoring the horrible unchangeable truth of the one truly unforgivable sin, despair.

Talk actually does help people solve things. It might not always, but that doesn't mean it never does. It teaches people coping skills, to change their way of thinking to a more beneficial one. It's not simply dressed up in the language of therapy - it is valuable advice.

It's not an explanation I would expect to have much traction here, but if the question is: why would someone kill themselves if they were not depressed or otherwise mentally unwell; well, there are other things going on in the world other than one's brain chemistry; it might well be despair, a totally untouchable capitulation to the darkness.

I don't know that anyone would kill themselves without being depressed. I don't know for certain, but if someone wants to surrender to the darkness that engulfs them, that smacks of depression to me. I think you are saying people shouldn't always slap a label of mental illness on anything like this, and while it's fair enough to bring this to the table, some of us are not trying to simplify it or just stick on a label, we just firmly believe resorting to such drastic measures is the result of depression.

jackthetrader

People can be reclusive for a variety of reasons. Some people thrive on solitude. Others the need to have people around. People who are not reclusive suffer from depression too. Each to their own

catallus

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Talk actually does help people solve things. It might not always, but that doesn't mean it never does. It teaches people coping skills, to change their way of thinking to a more beneficial one. It's not simply dressed up in the language of therapy - it is valuable advice.

I don't know that anyone would kill themselves without being depressed. I don't know for certain, but if someone wants to surrender to the darkness that engulfs them, that smacks of depression to me. I think you are saying people shouldn't always slap a label of mental illness on anything like this, and while it's fair enough to bring this to the table, some of us are not trying to simplify it or just stick on a label, we just firmly believe resorting to such drastic measures is the result of depression.

Lots of sane people kill themselves every day.

Recent media coverage of Belgium gives stats if you want them. Over 1200 people opt for state-sanctioned death, for physical and psychical reasons.

I get that having a comfort-blanket of professionally sanctioned "depression" as being a hold-all that solves all the inescapable problems that can beset a person can be helpful to a lot of people. But it isn't the truth.

titan18

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Talk actually does help people solve things. It might not always, but that doesn't mean it never does. It teaches people coping skills, to change their way of thinking to a more beneficial one. It's not simply dressed up in the language of therapy - it is valuable advice.

I don't know that anyone would kill themselves without being depressed. I don't know for certain, but if someone wants to surrender to the darkness that engulfs them, that smacks of depression to me. I think you are saying people shouldn't always slap a label of mental illness on anything like this, and while it's fair enough to bring this to the table, some of us are not trying to simplify it or just stick on a label, we just firmly believe resorting to such drastic measures is the result of depression.

I asked my doctors particularly about that last February when this current bout started, and I wanted to believe it wasn't depression, that I just didn't belong in the world anymore, and had no reason to live. It can happen that people just want to die, feel no use in going on anymore and it's not related to a mental illness. Would probably be a minority, but can happen that's it's a rational logical decision that life just isn't worth it. Main example, and doesn't seem to be in this case, would be intense physical pain that couldn't be cured, only medicated.

Femme_Fatale

catallus wrote: »

Lots of sane people kill themselves every day.

Recent media coverage of Belgium gives stats if you want them. Over 1200 people opt for state-sanctioned death, for physical and psychical reasons.

Well voluntary euthanasia for physical illness is comparable but it's separate to suicide for psychological reasons. Would "psychical" not fit under the psychological/mental umbrella?

I get that having a comfort-blanket of professionally sanctioned "depression" as being a hold-all that solves all the inescapable problems that can beset a person can be helpful to a lot of people. But it isn't the truth.

I just find the "comfort blanket" assertion to be quite dismissive. It's not a comfort blanket, there's nothing comforting about the reality of devastating mental illness. Not everyone with a mental illness gets well - I'm under no delusions that they all do.