First communion versus One Direction

Akrasia

This a great story
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/one-direction-in-unholy-row-over-communion-date-clash-29648977.html

Obviously, any children who have been told that they're going to see One Direction next year would be extremely disappointed if they couldn't go because it clashes with their first Holy Communion.

The parents of 3 children asked to have the date changed because they had already bought tickets to the sold out concert. Other parents objected because it represents a lack of respect for the sacrament so it's coming down to a vote.

Here we have 3 parents who want their kids to have the Holy communion but also don't want their kids to be bitterly disappointed by missing the concert

And we have a few parents who care more about respect for the 'sacrament' of Communion and don't seem to care if they would disappoint little children.

"A lot of parents, who had no problem with the date, contacted the school subsequently to express their outrage at the (perceived) disrespect shown to the blessed sacrament,"

Nowhere in the article does it mention that the alternative date would represent a difficulty for any of the other children.

I'm the father of 3 unbaptised children and none of them will be having a holy communion so it would never affect me, but what really struck me was the strident objection by the high horse brigade because the reason for moving the date is not 'good enough'.

They'd rather see 3 children (and maybe others, relatives and friends of these kids) be bitterly disappointed, than accommodate their request at no cost to themselves.

robindch

Akrasia wrote: »

They'd rather see 3 children (and maybe others, relatives and friends of these kids) be bitterly disappointed, than accommodate their request at no cost to themselves.

On the plus side, I see three families suddenly learning what religion does to people.

DamagedTrax

in fairness both options are a sickening waste of time and money

pauldla

DamagedTrax wrote: »

in fairness both options are a sickening waste of time and money

Indeed. A satanic choice worthy of the Evil One himself.

aisr1ofk43dpy5

I don't see the problem here in my experience first holy communion services are over by lunch time at the latest and you can drive from Limerick to Dublin in a couple of hours. Im guessing the concert starts around eight so plenty time to fit both in.

Akrasia

DamagedTrax wrote: »

in fairness both options are a sickening waste of time and money

One direction are the new beatles

Not G.R

Akrasia wrote: »

One direction are the new beatles

Except without the musical talent...

I Heart Internet

There shouldn't have been a problem here. In principle, there's nothing wrong with chosing (or moving) a date to suit as many people as possible.

The most important point, of course, is the one that is missed by the paper - just do BOTH THINGS on the same day!! There should be ample time for it.

The issue, I suspect, is that First Holy Communions are seen by some as all-day affairs where dinner, drinks and bouncy castles are fundamental to the "experience". They are not.

Receive the sacrament, smile for pictures, go home, change, get in the car, go to the concert, have a nice time. Simples.

Cabaal

Suggesting that One Direction is more important then the blessed sacrament, oh man if thats not blasphemy I don't know what is

Pherekydes

I Heart Internet wrote: »

The most important point, of course, is the one that is missed by the paper - just do BOTH THINGS on the same day!! There should be ample time for it.

The issue, I suspect, is that First Holy Communions are seen by some as all-day affairs where dinner, drinks and bouncy castles are fundamental to the "experience". They are not.

Receive the sacrament, smile for pictures, go home, change, get in the car, go to the concert, have a nice time. Simples.

Agree wholeheartedly.

But why is this an issue for A&A? Surely it's an issue for t'udder forum?

Sarky

Akrasia wrote: »

One direction are the new beatles

Blasphemy!

*Sends legal email to Dav* >_>

I Heart Internet

Pherekydes wrote: »

Agree wholeheartedly.

But why is this an issue for A&A? Surely it's an issue for t'udder forum?

Dunno, someone posted it here. Sure everyone loves a crack at the catholics! It was bounced out of After Hours too.

In fairness.......pretty much a non-story.

kylith

I Heart Internet wrote: »

There shouldn't have been a problem here. In principle, there's nothing wrong with chosing (or moving) a date to suit as many people as possible.

The most important point, of course, is the one that is missed by the paper - just do BOTH THINGS on the same day!! There should be ample time for it.

The issue, I suspect, is that First Holy Communions are seen by some as all-day affairs where dinner, drinks and bouncy castles are fundamental to the "experience". They are not.

Receive the sacrament, smile for pictures, go home, change, get in the car, go to the concert, have a nice time. Simples.

But then you wouldn't be able to have all the family and neighbours around to give ye loads of money, I mean, to join in the celebration of this joyous occasion.

Cabaal

I guess its related to A&A as it shows yet again that so many half arsed catholics exist in this country of ours.

They claim to be catholic and follow this and that, but in reality when it puts in on their actual lives then don't want a part of it.

In my view they aren't catholic, you can't be if you don't see the importance of the church rituals. Its just these people haven't copped that yet

I Heart Internet

kylith wrote: »

But then you wouldn't be able to have all the family and neighbours around to give ye loads of money, I mean, to join in the celebration of this joyous occasion.

That can only be a good thing. That carry on does not sit well with me. It's nice to celebrate the event. It's a joyous occasion, but the excuse to eat, drink and collect money turns my stomach. I would prefer that my kids get a treat from their parents (such as One Direction tickets.....my wife can bring them:D) rather than presents or money. I feel very strongly on this one tbh.

120_Minutes

Be interesting to see if hypothetically, communions were in september instead, would an all-ireland replay also not be a "good enough reason" to switch dates?


you could bet it'd be a ****ing great reason.

I Heart Internet

When I reflect on this a little bit, it just seems all the more rediculous.

Grown adults kicking up a fuss becasue they have a clash in their diaries over two entirely voluntary events.

Caliden

I've a feeling it's the parents of the children with tickets that are having the issue as they can't have the little party for themselves that comes with a holy communion.


The concert itself is on at 5pm so even if they lived in Belmullet they'd still be able make it after the ceremony.

Penn

I Heart Internet wrote: »

When I reflect on this a little bit, it just seems all the more rediculous.

Grown adults kicking up a fuss becasue they have a clash in their diaries over two entirely voluntary events.

That's the thing though, if you're a Catholic, Communion isn't really voluntary. It's one of the sacraments, and is supposed to be one of the most important days in the life of a Catholic child. Sure how often have we heard about how the State should still be paying extra money to children whose parents are on benefits because it's unfair that children shouldn't get to enjoy this incredibly important day...

Unless it clashes with a One Direction concert, because it might be like, next year before they ever come back to Ireland for another concert. Hell the parents could sell their tickets for more than they paid for them and give their children an even more special Communion Day. Because the Communion day isn't just the sacrament, it's the meal and party afterwards, getting cards from relatives packed with cash. Can't expect their child to have to choose between one of the important sacraments of their religion (party included) and a One Direction concert.

I'm guessing that's the main issue tbh. They could probably get the Communion done in time and still make it up to the concert, but then they miss out on the meal and afterparty of the occasion.

Either way, it's just indicative of the attitudes a lot of Catholics have towards their religion. They want all the benefits with as little sacrifice for it as possible.

aisr1ofk43dpy5

Caliden wrote: »

I've a feeling it's the parents of the children with tickets that are having the issue as they can't have the little party for themselves that comes with a holy communion.


The concert itself is on at 5pm so even if they lived in Belmullet they'd still be able make it after the ceremony.

In which case its not a decision between first holy communion and one direction. Its a decision between celebrating the day with a meal drinks bouncy castle etc with family and friends or going to the concert.

There is no clash plenty of time to attend both so no need for the school or church to be changing dates or having ballots. Just my opinion

Penn

Penn wrote: »

Unless it clashes with a One Direction concert, because it might be like, next year before they ever come back to Ireland for another concert.

Yeah but then the kids will be all of 8 or 9 years of age, far too old to appreciate a massive concert in Croke Park.

Missyelliot2

Just heard that the proposal to change the date was date (by an overwhelming majority!)

I Heart Internet

Penn wrote: »

That's the thing though, if you're a Catholic, Communion isn't really voluntary. It's one of the sacraments, and is supposed to be one of the most important days in the life of a Catholic child.

Very true. I personally see it in this light. But it is essentially a voluntary thing for parents. If one sees it in the light you describe above then there would be no issue - flog the tickets, Holy Communion is more important. I think that's why some other parents have made a big fuss of NOT changing the date to accomodate them. Understandable but a little uncharitable.

Penn wrote: »

Sure how often have we heard about how the State should still be paying extra money to children whose parents are on benefits because it's unfair that children shouldn't get to enjoy this incredibly important day....

Not that often anymore. Though the idea still persist that you must spend money to make a valid First Holy Communion. I genuinely hate the link between the sacrament and money/presents/fashion.

Penn wrote: »

I'm guessing that's the main issue tbh. They could probably get the Communion done in time and still make it up to the concert, but then they miss out on the meal and afterparty of the occasion.

Agree 100%.

Penn wrote: »

Either way, it's just indicative of the attitudes a lot of Catholics have towards their religion. They want all the benefits with as little sacrifice for it as possible.

Yes. Unfortunetly you're correct...in some cases anyway.

kylith

I Heart Internet wrote: »

That can only be a good thing. That carry on does not sit well with me. It's nice to celebrate the event. It's a joyous occasion, but the excuse to eat, drink and collect money turns my stomach. I would prefer that my kids get a treat from their parents (such as One Direction tickets.....my wife can bring them:D) rather than presents or money. I feel very strongly on this one tbh.

I would be the same but that would be because religion (or lack thereof) is something you and I take seriously and have put thought into. For the average a la carte Catholic; you have a communion and you have a party afterward, if you don't have a party where they get loads of money then your child will be Left Out, and you can't have that. Never mind that most of the kids in the class would gladly not do their communion to go to a concert.

kylith

Missyelliot2 wrote: »

Just heard that the proposal to change the date was date (by an overwhelming majority!)

You're going to have to clarify that for me.

Missyelliot2

kylith wrote: »

You're going to have to clarify that for me.

The parents voted in favour of having the Communion on the proposed date (May 24th).
Newstalk has reported that it was supported by an overwhelming majority.

Looks like there'll be lots of 'swops' going on!

Kidchameleon

People here giving out that the parents are terrible catholics are forgetting one thing. The kids themselves are probably having hissyfits wanting to do both things. Im sure the parents dont care weather they see 1d or not. Anyone who voted against moving the date could well have had function rooms booked etc etc

Sarky

Kidchameleon wrote: »

People here giving out that the parents are terrible catholics are forgetting one thing. The kids themselves are probably having hissyfits wanting to do both things.

Uh...

Akrasia

Cabaal wrote: »

I guess its related to A&A as it shows yet again that so many half arsed catholics exist in this country of ours.

They claim to be catholic and follow this and that, but in reality when it puts in on their actual lives then don't want a part of it.

In my view they aren't catholic, you can't be if you don't see the importance of the church rituals. Its just these people haven't copped that yet

The parents are the ones who are showing themselves up. The kids are just innocent, they are stuck in the middle of this. if the pious parents vote not to move the ceremony, then they're doing something that will hurt the children out of spite to prove a point against the parents of those children.

Let the kids have their party if they want. They'll make up their mind about religion when they're older.

I'm far happier having holy communion focus on the materialistic aspects than the alternative where the main focus is on the religion. (my little cousin took the whole thing too seriously and was genuinely worried about offending god by not being holy enough on the big day)

Missyelliot2

Kidchameleon wrote: »

People here giving out that the parents are terrible catholics are forgetting one thing. The kids themselves are probably having hissyfits wanting to do both things. Im sure the parents dont care weather they see 1d or not. Anyone who voted against moving the date could well have had function rooms booked etc etc

Hissyfits?

Poor loves....now's probably a good time to sit down with their darlings and explain that sometimes you can't have it all!

Penn

Kidchameleon wrote: »

The kids themselves are probably having hissyfits wanting to do both things.

But that's the uncomfortable truth that many don't want to face. If it came down to a choice between the two for the children in question, which do you think they'd choose?

For children, communion is only important so long as there isn't something else they want to do instead

Cabaal

http://www.thejournal.ie/one-direction-communion-raheen-school-1122801-Oct2013/

Parents vote to keep Communion date despite clash with One Direction gig

Really that says it all, the very fact they bothered to put it to a vote shows how much they don't take the whole communion thing seriously. This pick and choose catholic nonsense once again.

Instead of doing it because its the "done thing" can they just stop doing it and bring the kids to the concert or whatever else they want to do.

Cienciano

Cabaal wrote: »

I guess its related to A&A as it shows yet again that so many half arsed catholics exist in this country of ours.

They claim to be catholic and follow this and that, but in reality when it puts in on their actual lives then don't want a part of it.

In my view they aren't catholic, you can't be if you don't see the importance of the church rituals. Its just these people haven't copped that yet

And that's the reason religion in schools is important. (i know, I'm preaching to the converted).
Imagine how few people would go to communion/confession/confirmation if the responsibility was on the parents to organise it?

Cabaal

Cienciano wrote: »

And that's the reason religion in schools is important. (i know, I'm preaching to the converted).
Imagine how few people would go to communion/confession/confirmation if the responsibility was on the parents to organise it?

Next to nobody,
Wouldn't it be great?

The push for getting religion out of schools must really scare the ****e out of the catholic church,

Sarky

One is a staged pantomime with terrible script, awful music and nonsensical rituals directed by people you wouldn't leave your kids in a room with, and the other is... Oh.

endacl

I've been absent from this forum for a while now. This does seem an appropriate thread to return with a resounding HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

lazygal

Kidchameleon wrote: »

People here giving out that the parents are terrible catholics are forgetting one thing. The kids themselves are probably having hissyfits wanting to do both things. Im sure the parents dont care weather they see 1d or not. Anyone who voted against moving the date could well have had function rooms booked etc etc

Saying no and making children realise things don't always go their way is part and parcel of parenting, along with not giving into hissyfits.

P_1

Interestingly, that date is also when the Heineken Cup final is on, seeing as the school in question is in Limerick I can see it kicking up more potential issues depending on the fortunes of the men who wear the red jerseys...

lazygal

P_1 wrote: »

Interestingly, that date is also when the Heineken Cup final is on, seeing as the school in question is in Limerick I can see it kicking up more potential issues depending on the fortunes of the men who wear the red jerseys...

But sure the kids will be in the pub 'celebrating' anyways, they'll be able to watch the match.

P_1

lazygal wrote: »

But sure the kids will be in the pub 'celebrating' anyways, they'll be able to watch the match.

True, but it would also mean that the parents wouldn't be able to go to Cardiff to display their pashun :P

PopePalpatine

It'd be more interesting if it was a clash between First Communion/Confirmation and a Green Day concert.

Kidchameleon

lazygal wrote: »

Saying no and making children realise things don't always go their way is part and parcel of parenting, along with not giving into hissyfits.

Parent myself and I totally agree with you.

Sarky wrote: »

One is a staged pantomime with terrible script, awful music and nonsensical rituals directed by people you wouldn't leave your kids in a room with, and the other is... Oh.

We may not be religious, but kids put their hearts and souls into the music for the day. Not nice of you to refer to it as awful.

Penn wrote: »

But that's the uncomfortable truth that many don't want to face. If it came down to a choice between the two for the children in question, which do you think they'd choose?

The kids? Id imagine some would choose the concert and some would choose the communion. I'd say a higher proportion would choose the communion if they spent the best part of the year preparing for it.

Penn wrote: »

For children, communion is only important so long as there isn't something else they want to do instead

True for some but not for all id imagine.

Penn

Kidchameleon wrote: »

The kids? Id imagine some would choose the concert and some would choose the communion. I'd say a higher proportion would choose the communion if they spent the best part of the year preparing for it.

True for some but not for all id imagine.

No, but for those who obviously want to go to the concert enough that they got tickets for it, I'd say most (not all, but most) would choose the concert rather than a special Mass with a meal afterwards and having to pose for loads of pictures all day.

I know if my nephew had the choice (solely his own choice) between Communion and going to see The Avengers 2, he might ask to wear his Communion suit to the cinema but that'd be about it.

ScumLord

I don't see why this is such a problem, it's next year they're talking about it wouldn't put the church out to move the date by a week seeing as it's so far off.

It seems the main objectors would rather force everyone to choose one over the other rather than accommodate their neighbours. I think the parents were entitled to ask for a date change and pretty sickened by the fundamental reaction of the other parents.

Maybe one direction can pull off a publicity stunt by doing a small gig for those kids.

Missyelliot2

ScumLord wrote: »

I don't see why this is such a problem, it's next year they're talking about it wouldn't put the church out to move the date by a week seeing as it's so far off.

It seems the main objectors would rather force everyone to choose one over the other rather than accommodate their neighbours. I think the parents were entitled to ask for a date change and pretty sickened by the fundamental reaction of the other parents.

Maybe one direction can pull off a publicity stunt by doing a small gig for those kids.

It sets a precedence - who's to stop people demanding a change if date every year? It's never going to suit everybody, but I honestly believe they need to just suck it up!

Am sure the 1-D parents will look back on this (as their goth teen grunts at them), and feel a tad silly!

Call Me Jimmy

The only thing that made me bother replying is that ye know these parents who say it is ruining the sacrament or whatever bullsh!t phrase they use are half-assed, hypocritical sin-bathers like the rest of us.

Agricola

I honestly don't know which group of parents are worse. The hypocrites who are banging on about disrespecting the sacrament, many of whom probably only "rediscovered" religious life this year now that they have a kid due for communion, or the other bunch who give so little of a toss about their faith that they believe their child's first communion is less important than a pop concert!
(lets not be distasteful by mentioning that the real issue is the kids missing out on cash stuffed envelopes!)

21st century Irish catholicism, you couldnt make this shít up.

was.deevey

I don't see the problem here in my experience first holy communion services are over by lunch time at the latest and you can drive from Limerick to Dublin in a couple of hours. Im guessing the concert starts around eight so plenty time to fit both in.

But they'd lose out on going around to all the relatives "showing off" their communion clothes in exchange for big wads of cash.

Anyone who voted against moving the date could well have had function rooms booked etc etc

Function rooms for a communion ! WTF

Missyelliot2

I'd say a lot of parents just don't want to be dictated to by a select few.....

Feel sorry for the school - they've enough to be dealing with, without this S***!

Missyelliot2

Missyelliot2 wrote: »

I'd say a lot of parents just don't want to be dictated to by a select few.....

Feel sorry for the school - they've enough to be dealing with, without this S***!

The school had to employ a PR firm to issue a statement :eek:

robindch

Agricola wrote: »

21st century Irish catholicism, you couldnt make this shít up.

I think the general belief hereabouts is that a lot of people did make this shit up.