Random drug testing for dole system, yea/nae?

bitemybanger

like the title said...RANDOM, not for everyone but there is a chance every time you go to sign on you might be asked to provide a sample so why not introduce random drug testing into the welfare system? there would have to be some exceptions for the likes of people undergoing treatment for addiction and prescribed drugs among others but proof must be provided.
Its as simlple as peeing into a cup and results are instant.
If i needed to sign on in the morning and was asked to provide a sample i wouldn't have any problem providing it, same as if i am asked in my job.
What say ye?

Seachmall

No.

What's in my pee is between me and the guy who unblocks my toilet.

mattjack

bitemybanger wrote: »

like the title said...RANDOM, not for everyone but there is a chance every time you go to sign on you might be asked to provide a sample so why not introduce random drug testing into the welfare system? there would have to be some exceptions for the likes of people undergoing treatment for addiction and prescribed drugs among others but proof must be provided.
Its as simlple as peeing into a cup and results are instant.
If i needed to sign on in the morning and was asked to provide a sample i wouldn't have any problem providing it, same as if i am asked in my job.
What say ye?

Why would you want to test ?
If someone tested positive , would you close their claim ?

sbsquarepants

No.
It's beyond ridiculous.

willmunny1990

Why?

bitemybanger

mattjack wrote: »

Why would you want to test ?
If someone tested positive , would you close their claim ?

Why would you think i would want to test

Esoteric_

I don't touch drugs and I still wouldn't provide a sample if I were on the dole.


Surely the cost of the implementation of a system like that would cost more money than it would generate?

bitemybanger

sbsquarepants wrote: »

No.
It's beyond ridiculous.

Not really unless you have something to hide.... have you;)

Gatling

I'd rather they implemented a finger print/hand scans been brought into use on welfare claims and signing on

lukesmom

No

Seachmall

bitemybanger wrote: »

Not really unless you have something to hide.... have you;)

Yes.

The contents of my pee.

Not for any reason in particular.

I simply prefer to keep my excretions, and their contents, private from the government.

Eight Ball

Those nasty dole people, sure aren't they responsible for the collapse of the banks and greedy property developers vanity projects. Oh and world hunger of course.

Maximus Alexander

Absolutely not.

Crooked Jack

bitemybanger wrote: »

like the title said...RANDOM, not for everyone but there is a chance every time you go to sign on you might be asked to provide a sample so why not introduce random drug testing into the welfare system? there would have to be some exceptions for the likes of people undergoing treatment for addiction and prescribed drugs among others but proof must be provided.
Its as simlple as peeing into a cup and results are instant.
If i needed to sign on in the morning and was asked to provide a sample i wouldn't have any problem providing it, same as if i am asked in my job.
What say ye?

And what happens when someone tests positive?

Jester252

bitemybanger wrote: »

Not really unless you have something to hide.... have you;)

The good old 'if you got nothing to hide than nothing to fear' approach.

pharmaton

I say yay just cause. (I'm not affected by it, that's how these things work right?)

aaakev

Random testing like that of any person on welfare is not fair at all. I dont use drugs but i would refuse to give a sample if i was on the dole just the same as i would if my boss asked me today to give one

wp_rathead

What be the point? Waste of money to drug test, plus very invasive

DamagedTrax

i dont get why?

people on social welfare are as entitled to use whatever substances they want, arent they? as far as i know there is no clean living stipulation to getting social welfare.

Chips Lovell

If I can't get wasted when I'm unemployed, when can I get wasted?

jimgoose

And what Earthly business is it of the DSP's if some punter smokes a bit of hash or something??

DamagedTrax

jimgoose wrote: »

And what Earthly business is it of the DSP's if some punter smokes a bit of hash or something??

exactly but no doubt he's wasting taxpayers (read as OP) money... except taxpayer probably forgot that you can grow your own.

campo

I say yay just as long as companies also get to random test employees and if you fail the test you get sacked

smellslikeshoes

Whenever this comes up on boards (and is has come up a few times) there is never any foresight about what happens when all the many thousands of people who fail the test don't get their money. All it will do is put people on the street and create crime and cost much more than any small saving made.

PeteGill

No. It's a silly idea, what are you supposed to do if they test positive? Cut them off? Arrest them? It criminalises the innocent.

Sir Humphrey Appleby

bitemybanger wrote: »

like the title said...RANDOM, not for everyone but there is a chance every time you go to sign on you might be asked to provide a sample so why not introduce random drug testing into the welfare system? there would have to be some exceptions for the likes of people undergoing treatment for addiction and prescribed drugs among others but proof must be provided.
Its as simlple as peeing into a cup and results are instant.
If i needed to sign on in the morning and was asked to provide a sample i wouldn't have any problem providing it, same as if i am asked in my job.
What say ye?

Why?

jimgoose

PeteGill wrote: »

No. It's a silly idea, what are you supposed to do if they test positive? Cut them off? Arrest them? It criminalises the innocent.

Worse. Much worse. They then become the personal playthings of Joan "Zombie" Burton.

Zombienosh

Yeah make me feel like an even bigger scumbag just because I'm temporarily out of work.

Maximus Alexander

DamagedTrax wrote: »

exactly but no doubt he's wasting taxpayers (read as OP) money... except taxpayer probably forgot that you can grow your own.

Also, how on Earth is smoking weed wasting tax payers' money? Sounds like a great use to me.

Tombi!

Three reasons why not:
I don't smoke, inject or otherwise do any drugs that are deemed illegal. I don't plan on it.
So you giving me a random drug test is akin to saying "well, you didn't do anything wrong and there's never been evidence you have done anything wrong but... we just need to test you, randomly, of course."

The amount of money it wastes. Yes, wastes is downright insane compared to the amount of people it will flag as having actually done illegal drugs in the last X amount of time.
Not to mention there is already a massive amount of backlogs in many areas of the SW. Including my own local officer having refused to answer their phones for a few years. So will I be standing around for another hour or so while someone tells me "here you, fill this and then give it back"

Thirdly: what happens if I do decide to get stoned, get tested and then it flags me? Off the dole? Great idea! I'll just steal food.
Cut the dole? Probably won't kill me too much but for people who can't even scrape a few euro for themselves at the end of the week, it'll make criminals out of them.

So in summary to the idea if it'll be ever be put forward by the government (not to the OP or anyone in this topic that'll be in favour for it): f**k off.

Seachmall

Zombienosh wrote: »

Yeah make me feel like an even bigger scumbag just because I'm temporarily out of work.

"We have nothing but respect for you and appreciate these are tough times. We will, of course, help you out as you find employment in as dignified a way as possible.


Now, please pee in this cup."

bodice ripper

[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica]"You show me a guy sitting at home stroking his penis and watching game shows, and Ill show you someone who isnt causing any in trouble"
[/FONT]

wes

Would be a massive waste of money and time, and I see no reason to stigmatise those on the dole anymore than they already are.

I really do wonder why so many people seem to have an problem with those on the dole. Considering the state of the economy, it is understandably, why a lot of people can't find work.

MonstaMash

Absolutely not...it's bad enough that honest, decent hard-working citizens are reduced to being criminals in the eyes of the law for enjoying the occasional spliff.

Penalizing the ones in society who are more vulnerable ie social welfare recipients etc., is bordering on fascistic...what next, OAP's, long term disability recipients...where does the witch hunt end??

Gatling

How bout the government legalise certain drug class types ,
Then slap a healthy tax on what's legal in return get some return on the handout money thats currently smoked or pissed away

constance tench

What if someone likes eating poppy seed bagels/rolls?...or has toothache and takes a couple of Solpadeine?

Shout Dust

Waste of time and money, awful idea

sbsquarepants

bitemybanger wrote: »

Not really unless you have something to hide.... have you;)

Not at the moment!:D But that's not the point.
It's populist to say you shouldn't buy drink or drugs with dole money, but it's also bullshít. If you give someone money, it's up to them to decide what they do with it - it's their money!
It's the exact same argument to say you shouldn't buy mcdonalds, biscuits or coca cola with dole money. It's just a stupid argument and the implementation would be an enormous infringement on peoples freedom.

jill_valentine

Esoteric_ wrote: »

I don't touch drugs and I still wouldn't provide a sample if I were on the dole.


Surely the cost of the implementation of a system like that would cost more money than it would generate?

That was exactly what happened when they tried it in the States, the cost of testing far, far outweighed the "savings", and that's only the immediate effect before you factor in what all those people left without any income stream and a drugs flag did from there.

Better again, IIRC, the company which got the tender to do the testing turned out to have ties to one of the politicians involved in passing it, which was a neat trick that I'm sure our boyos would love to emulate.

Miprocin

constance tench wrote: »

What if someone likes eating poppy seed bagels/rolls?...or has toothache and takes a couple of Solpadeine?

Good point! There are, in fact, many foods and drugs which can lead to false-positives on immunoassay type urine tests that samples would need to be sent for GC/MS analysis for confirmation before any action could be taken. This would be unworkable and ridiculously expensive.

Huge invasion of privacy too both for users and non-users.

OldNotWIse

willmunny1990 wrote: »

Why?

To humiliate people who have lost their jobs?

lahalane

Id be ok since Im just a dealer. Gimme the cup.

loubeelou

Would it not make more sense for us to actually take the drug problems we have in this country seriously for a change.
We have fcuk all treatment centres and most support comes from volunteer organisations.
I don't think anyone actually chooses to be an addict. They may have made stupid decisions to get there, but is it not time that as a society, we actually acknowleged the issues and take proper steps towards helping those suffering from addiction intead of leaving them and their families drowning in it?

hatrickpatrick

Jester252 wrote: »

The good old 'if you got nothing to hide than nothing to fear' approach.

Working out pretty well for the NSA and various other intelligence agencies who've just been exposed indiscriminately grabbing every bit of digital communication, it's not as if there's any kind of controv... Oh wait.

padd b1975

If it was a deal breaker as to being offered a job or not, I don't think any reasonably minded person would have any worthwhile objections.

I know I certainly wouldn't.


Paranoid stoners on the other hand.......

mattjack

bitemybanger wrote: »

Why would you think i would want to test

I dont know , that's kinda why I asked , what would you do to someone who tests positive ?

You started the thread and are confused after two or three posts .

looking_around

Not in favour.

Mostly because I'm not against the users, .. I'm against the dealers. And some things should simply be legal.

And, also, what difference would it make?

Seachmall

looking_around wrote: »

And, also, what difference would it make?

Absolutely none.

The government have been taking the piss enough as it is.






*Badum* *Dum* *Tish*

Wattle

padd b1975 wrote: »

If it was a deal breaker as to being offered a job or not, I don't think any reasonably minded person would have any worthwhile objections.

I know I certainly wouldn't.


Paranoid stoners on the other hand.......

I could understand certain professions being tested like say an airline pilot. But if I was an office worker and I'd had a joint three days before how does that interfere with my ability to do the job?

Rod Serling

Do many employers in Ireland drug test? Never heard of anyone I know being drug tested.

In regards to OP, one of the stupidest ideas I've seen brought up in AH. I don't touch any illegal substances and have no interest in changing that, but there's no way I'd start pissing in a cup to prove it to the government.

IvySlayer

Forcing people to give evidence whether or not they are drug users?

NAY