Just wonder if anyone cares anymore....

Missyelliot2

My father-in-law (aged 80) just spent 32 hours on a hospital trolley (along with many more). He 'was lucky' to get a bed - (Having worked his entire life) That's considered luck?

Just your thoughts on what the f*** is going on and what I can do help it change?
Sorry ....just upset:(

HalloweenJack

I live in Spain. Recently, a friend of mine who just moved here to start work, with no social insurance or private health insurance, had appendicitis and had to have it removed. Not a bother. Her only problem was they had noone to explain it to her in English.

In Finland, a country much more expensive than Ireland, a friend of mine got treated (nine stitches in his head after a drunken fall) in A&E for a fiver.

I'm not generally one to wade in on the populist debates but this is defo one. Irish health system is a joke.

IvaBigWun

Unfortunately more and more people are leaving the likes of VHI so they can pay their mortgage.

You have my sympathy OP

PickledLime

Demand outstrips supply, bugger all we can do about it I'm afraid.

Most people know someone who has endured a farcical wait in the corridor at this stage

Karl Stein

Everyone wants world class services but nobody wants to pay.

I can't understand why we don't just look at another similarly sized country/population and clone it.

Manach

Likely in the next budget more increases to the USC and a corresponding "cut" in services.

Missyelliot2

HalloweenJack wrote: »

I live in Spain. Recently, a friend of mine who just moved here to start work, with no social insurance or private health insurance, had appendicitis and had to have it removed. Not a bother. Her only problem was they had noone to explain it to her in English.

In Finland, a country much more expensive than Ireland, a friend of mine got treated (nine stitches in his head after a drunken fall) in A&E for a fiver.

I'm not generally one to wade in on the populist debates but this is defo one. Irish health system is a joke.

Thanks so much - thought it was just me. Have moved back here from the Netherlands - unbelievable healthcare.

Was in UK too, and on my (free) doctors visit, was asked to contribute £2.00 to cost of prescription at the chemist.

Just reeling that a man in his 80s is left there - I did read about this, but really believe it could be that bad - and it is.
It's just sad

cigar_chomper

maybe if wealthy pensioners didn't have free medical cards , their would be more money to spend on essentials

an uncle of mine who is a retired guard with two investment properties also has a medica card



goverments spend money where they want to

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Charlie Rock wrote: »

Everyone wants world class services but nobody wants to pay.

I can't understand why we don't just look at another similarly sized country/population and clone it.

You answered your own question.

You dont pay a fiver in Finalnd to be treated in A&E - you pay a hell of a lot more in taxes, but you mention this to the Irish taxpayer...? Nah!

Unfortauntely, necessities like mortgages and second cars are more important than the luxaries like health it would seem.

Karl Stein

Missyelliot2 wrote: »

Was in UK too, and on my (free) doctors visit

It's not free. The cost is socialised. Someone pays somewhere, somehow.

Hilly Bill

What needs to be done is the HSE getting tough on the bed blockers. There are far too many taking up a hospital bed just because they are old and nowhere to go. Hospital beds should be for the sick, if someone is well enough to hang around the main door smoking all day then they don't need the bed.

OP, what was wrong with your father in law?

Cody Pomeray

Charlie Rock wrote: »

Everyone wants world class services but nobody wants to pay.

I can't understand why we don't just look at another similarly sized country/population and clone it.

Never understood this either.

It's like we're a nation of artists. We admire other nations' great works, but we couldn't possibly just trace and copy. No, we have to do it 'our way' and be original about it. Why???

Why can we not just look at the swedish or spanish or dutch models and say RIGHT that works, everyone stop what you're doing, this is the plan from now on? Maybe this is naive, I genuinely don't understand why this is not possible.

Femme_Fatale

Hilly Bill wrote: »

What needs to be done is the HSE getting tough on the bed blockers. There are far too many taking up a hospital bed just because they are old and nowhere to go.

Well when my nana was dying in 1996 she had to be moved from the hospital to a nursing home, in order to free up a hospital bed.

if someone is well enough to hang around the main door smoking all day then they don't need the bed.

Who the **** like that gets a hospital bed?

irish bloke

Hilly Bill wrote: »

OP, what was wrong with your father in law?

In all fairness, what's that got to do with it???

Mint Aero

cigar_chomper wrote: »

maybe if wealthy pensioners didn't have free medical cards , their would be more money to spend on essentials

an uncle of mine who is a retired guard with two investment properties also has a medica card

goverments spend money where they want to

Great point I vote you to be the next Mary Harney.

Karl Stein

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

RIGHT that works, everyone stop what you're doing, this is the plan from now on?

Or even 'right lads, we'll be implementing this tried and tested system, that works well, in 5 years time, if you don't want to be part of it then you've time to make other arrangements'.

It would allow time for contracts to run out and all that stuff.

Dozen Wicked Words

So sorry OP, hope your father in law gets well. Yep, it is that bad, getting worse. Long stay beds are getting closed in district hospitals left right and centre. Some patients are just too difficult to manage so the nursing homes don't take them. Carer or home help hours are slashed so families can't take them. So they block beds in acute hospitals, for months on end. Wards get closed, so bed capacity drops. In the ten years I have worked in a general hospital, the equivalent of 2 wards have been closed. There have been patients on trolleys, in ward corridors on and off, all year this year, wait until winter. That is when things get really f7cked up.

StewartGriffin

Sincere sympathy OP. I know how it feels. Been there with both parents.

It takes a hell of a lot of political courage to reform it. The first mention of change and everyone from Consultants to Canteen staff dig in their heels and talk strike. But unfortunately the only way to fix it is a radical reform. Public service reform.

Who has the guts to do it? The best minister for health can't do it unless they have the complete backing of the rest of the cabinet to carry it ALL the way through.
Not Going to Happen.

Missyelliot2

Charlie Rock wrote: »

It's not free. The cost is socialised. Someone pays somewhere, somehow.

I know everybody pays.....I did through my taxes from work - I was lucky not to use the doc too much - I really do not mind paying into a system whereby if you need it - you will be looked after.

Here.....it's a complete f up.
I remember always been told re America (80s teen)- you were always fine- as long as you didn't get sick!!

Struggling to find the difference here- and it's in no way the fault of the doctors/nurses

Hilly Bill

irish bloke wrote: »

In all fairness, what's that got to do with it???

A lot. It all depends on the nature of the complaint as to the allocation of a bed and if there are people with more serious complaints ahead of you. Age should have nothing to do with it.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Missyelliot2 wrote: »

I know everybody pays.....I did through my taxes from work - I was lucky not to use the doc too much - I really do not mind paying into a system whereby if you need it - you will be looked after.

Here.....it's a complete f up.
I remember always been told re America (80s teen)- you were always fine- as long as you didn't get sick!!

Struggling to find the difference here- and it's in no way the fault of the doctors/nurses

We spent out health fund bailing out the banks and the euro debt. We had the money and the finiances to put something good into place, we wasted it.

Hilly Bill

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Well when my nana was dying in 1996 she had to be moved from the hospital to a nursing home, in order to free up a hospital bed.

Who the **** like that gets a hospital bed?

Look at the front of every hospital.

Turtwig

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Who the **** like that gets a hospital bed?

People awaiting a surgery. People awaiting to be discharged. Basically people who are freely mobile but may require medications, services or monitoring that is only available in the hospital. Just because someone appear in good shape this moment doesn't mean that in the next couple of hours they won't become gravely ill. Lots of maladies are invisible to the everyday observer too.

Edit : just realised you meant this in totally different manner.

Femme_Fatale

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Look at the front of every hospital.

Visitors? People awaiting an operation? Women in labour? (I don't agree with smoking then but they need a bed). People who are well do not get a hospital bed - saying silly stuff is not helpful to the OP.

The Backwards Man

I care. I'd be a multi-millionaire by now if I didn't waste all my money trying to do things with my business for the benefit of others. There are hundreds of thousands more like me.

But there are many more that don't give a fcuk. That's where the problems lie, greed and apathy all too prevalent in all western societies.

Jesus I sound like a hippy

Missyelliot2

Hilly Bill wrote: »

A lot. It all depends on the nature of the complaint as to the allocation of a bed and if there are people with more serious complaints ahead of you. Age should have nothing to do with it.

A clot in his lungs. Serious enough

longshanks

But the JamesReilly is going to eradicate homelessness and cigarettes.

He hasn't got time to deal with people on trolleys, 36 hour shifts for junior doctors, or for actual problems. He's going to make-believe solve the unsolvable.

And ignore the real problems. He's definitely not a cunt.

wazky

longshanks wrote: »

But the JamesReilly is going to eradicate homelessness and cigarettes.

In fairness the job of re-sizing the warning labels on packs of fags is earth shattering stuff...:rolleyes:

Overheal

HalloweenJack wrote: »

I live in Spain. Recently, a friend of mine who just moved here to start work, with no social insurance or private health insurance, had appendicitis and had to have it removed. Not a bother. Her only problem was they had noone to explain it to her in English.

In Finland, a country much more expensive than Ireland, a friend of mine got treated (nine stitches in his head after a drunken fall) in A&E for a fiver.

I'm not generally one to wade in on the populist debates but this is defo one. Irish health system is a joke.

And it was touted as an Ideal system to the american public during the 2009 healthcare debates.

I still shudder at the thought. Is Mary still running the show from behind a bag of chips?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

The Backwards Man wrote: »

I care. I'd be a multi-millionaire by now if I didn't waste all my money trying to do things with my business for the benefit of others. There are hundreds of thousands more like me.

But there are many more that don't give a fcuk. That's where the problems lie, greed and apathy all too prevalent in all western societies.

Jesus I sound like a hippy

Nah, someone just unplugged you from the Matrix

People do care. Unfortunautely, none of them are in power and the whole system is designed to stop them from getting into power.

Charlie Rock

Charlie Rock wrote: »

Everyone wants world class services but nobody wants to pay.

I can't understand why we don't just look at another similarly sized country/population and clone it.

Last time I checked we paid the same per capita for the HSE as the NHS. We're not far paying enough.

StewartGriffin

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

We spent out health fund bailing out the banks and the euro debt. We had the money and the finiances to put something good into place, we wasted it.

I think the health fund that could have made a difference was blown in Charlie McGreevy's budgets. Giveaways for a popular vote rather than investing in a reliable health system. It was too late by the time the banks went bust.

Missyelliot2

longshanks wrote: »

But the JamesReilly is going to eradicate homelessness and cigarettes.

He hasn't got time to deal with people on trolleys, 36 hour shifts for junior doctors, or for actual problems. He's going to make-believe solve the unsolvable.

And ignore the real problems. He's definitely not a cunt.

You are so right ....big man stamping out cigarettes! But......what can I/We do? haven't a notion of voting any of those political cretins into power (ALL PARTIES INCLUDED!) -
Would love something to change......feels a tad like pseudo -China!
'Redemption Song' on Todayfm! NOW!

Hilly Bill

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Visitors? People awaiting an operation? Women in labour? (I don't agree with smoking then but they need a bed). People who are well do not get a hospital bed - saying silly stuff is not helpful to the OP.

This is Ireland it happens.

longhalloween

IvaBigWun wrote: »

Unfortunately more and more people are leaving the likes of VHI so they can pay their mortgage.

You have my sympathy OP

More and more are leaving because the younger generation aren't joining up, so there's less of a pool of healthy people to prop up the elderly who have expensive treatments.

So the price keeps increasing, up and up until the elderly (who need it the most) can no longer afford to have insurance.

Remember when risk sharing was such a big debate, when insurance providers with a younger client base were asked to give money to providers with an older client base?

Stheno

Overheal wrote: »

And it was touted as an Ideal system to the american public during the 2009 healthcare debates.

I still shudder at the thought. Is Mary still running the show from behind a bag of chips?

Nah, she's not even a TD anymore.

She got reelected as a male FFer with an even bigger gut, a dodgy ginger beard and various fingers in various pies.

Overheal

Stheno wrote: »

Nah, she's not even a TD anymore.

She got reelected as a male FFer with an even bigger gut, a dodgy ginger beard and various fingers in various pies.

fun. its good to see the electorate shows evidence of learning through past mistakes

deadeye187

If i`m not mistaken the more urgent is seen first!..

So if your seen fast its not good!....

I was waiting 9hrs for a xray once.....9hrs!

Missyelliot2

But...as the people WHAT can we do?

Incompetent muppets running and ruining our healthcare education etc.
Really brought it home to me this week - how vulnerable we all are -especially when sick and needing care.

deadeye187

Missyelliot2 wrote: »

But...as the people WHAT can we do?

Incompetent muppets running and ruining our healthcare education etc.
Really brought it home to me this week - how vulnerable we all are -especially when sick and needing care.

Well it goes without saying that we are in a bad situation, the only way to change things is with out feet....but you need numbers and people who are passionate about what they are fighting for!

People like to talk a good fight, but when it come down to it they to lazy to get up and get together and do something about it!....

Lola18

I was in hospital for 2 nights while pregnant they thought I had a lung clot. after a day and a half of tests they wanted to keep me in another night waiting on results. I insisted on discharging myself so they made a phone call got the results everything was ok just bruised ribs causing the pain and they sent me home.
Freeing up a bed which I probably would have been in until the next evening if I just waited for them to get results in there own time. My point here is that people who are well do take up beds with no need!

triage, simple as that

deadeye187

Deleted User wrote: »

triage, simple as that

This is what happens to a degree here!


Most urgent are seen first, no matter if you are waiting 2hrs if someone comes with a condition that is life threatening they will be seen before everyone, and rightly so.

SusieBlue

My friend's 82yr old grandmother is currently on a trolley on a corridor in A+E in the CUH. She's been there 2 days now. Dislocated shoulder, broken hip and a suspected heart attack. Poor woman is delirious and has no idea what's going on.

Staff and patients are walking up and down the corridor all night and the lights aren't turned off or anything. Family aren't allowed sit with her through the night.

This fall will realistically kill her and she isn't even comfortable or being looked after properly. No dignity at all. Its sickening.

Missyelliot2

Missyelliot2 wrote: »

But...as the people WHAT can we do?

Incompetent muppets running and ruining our healthcare education etc.
Really brought it home to me this week - how vulnerable we all are -especially when sick and needing care.

well, Missy, writing to Dr Reilly, is not something you should do.

Take it from me, he would only send an automated response from his receptionist who will tell you hes looking onto the matter and will be back to you in due course.
This of course will not happen. Ive been waiting three years now. I stopped holding my breath a long time ago. He is an useful as an ashtray on a motorbike.

Hope your Father in law makes a quick recovery .

deadeye187

WhiteRoses wrote: »

My friend's 82yr old grandmother is currently on a trolley on a corridor in A+E in the CUH. She's been there 2 days now. Dislocated shoulder, broken hip and a suspected heart attack. Poor woman is delirious and has no idea what's going on.

Staff and patients are walking up and down the corridor all night and the lights aren't turned off or anything. Family aren't allowed sit with her through the night.

This fall will realistically kill her and she isn't even comfortable or being looked after properly. No dignity at all. Its sickening.

I`d say at her age its a life threatening condition, when older people fall, this is a very serious situation and should be looked after quick. And yes when older people have a serious fall death is a lightly outcome, or it can come days to weeks later.


Ps. Sorry to hear about all your misfortune, and I hope it goes well for all of you.

Hilly Bill

Missyelliot2 wrote: »

But...as the people WHAT can we do?

Incompetent muppets running and ruining our healthcare education etc.
Really brought it home to me this week - how vulnerable we all are -especially when sick and needing care.

Not a lot apart from going private if that would make a difference.

It all depends on the hospital and how busy it is when you arrive, there are only so much spare beds available at any one time.
Ive waited to see the triage nurse ( spelling?) for a couple or hours or so in agony and once assessed and saw that i was in agony i was taken straight through and seen by a doctor, given a pain killer and hooked up to a drip and left sat on a plastic chair in agony because there was no trollies and then sent home a few hours later after an x-ray because of no beds. Fair enough i thought at the time as i was given tablets to take home. It turned out that they had diagnosed me wrong and i ended back in A&E a week later still in pain.
This time once i was seen by the doctor i was put on a trolley in a cubicle and after some tests i was brought up to a ward within a few hours of arriving in A&E twice this happened both late at night.

Stheno

THere is fundamental reform needed in our HSE.

Why is it that many years after the Health Boards were abolished, we still have localised "boards/regions" rather than centralised administration of the systems?

Why is it that we have no end to end system in place so that once I go for an x ray, my doctor gets emailed the analysi.s via a patient management system?

I believe its partly due to unions, partly due to an unwillingness to change, and sheer inefficiency.

I still remember the HR manager in the HSE and their infamous comment about there being a couple of thousand too many staff in HR.

Wtf type of organisation full stop needs a couple of thousand HR staff? I doubt even IBM or HP or the likes have that?

Hilly Bill

deadeye187 wrote: »

This is what happens to a degree here!


Most urgent are seen first, no matter if you are waiting 2hrs if someone comes with a condition that is life threatening they will be seen before everyone, and rightly so.

What also is happening is people on medical cards clogging up A&E after the pubs close for some silly reason like a graze from falling whilst drunk .
People would be seen quicker if people used some cop on before going to A&E and not be going there for some trivial reason just because they are on the medical card.

brokenarms

I broke my ankle and fingers last year after a fall.
I was on a trolley for a few hours in Naas but the level of care I got was exceptional.
Staff where very caring and did their very best to comfort me. They are under staffed. I'm better now so it does work

I lived in NYC and it was worse

I also lived in England for a time. Same as here . All under staffed.

Go private.

deadeye187

brokenarms wrote: »

I broke my ankle and fingers last year after a fall.
I was on a trolley for a few hours in Naas but the level of care I got was exceptional.
Staff where very caring and did their very best to comfort me. They are under staffed. I'm better now so it does work

I lived in NYC and it was worse

I also lived in England for a time. Same as here . All under staffed.

Go private.

with a name like yours i`d say your no stranger to A+E!:D