Rankings for 2014

Gerry91

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I will not do it now cos I am on the phone but it may be a good idea to do a 2014 ranking thread now and see where people believe their teams and the other teams sit for next year

What Tod said how do ye rank ye're team for next year. The other thread has gone off topic and just descended into talks of this anyway so may aswell start a new one

Me

Id have the Dubs as the favourites again tbh, they've the best all round panel and the younger guys are a year older

I think it's tough to know with Mayo, if they can bring the same hunger and intensity they should make the final

Kerry are a year older, don't seem to have many coming through and O'Se is a huge loss. Play Cork away in Munster too so may need to come through the back door

Cork- impossible to know, depends on who they appoint I guess and if they can pick the right team. Helps that they've a home Munster final. Will they be found wanting tactically again? Will Walsh migrate to hurling and will Sheehan maybe split his time between the two?

Donegal look to have a nice enough draw in Ulster- they've gotten the easier "half" anyway. A lot will depend on whether they can keep everyone fit and how playing in D2 affects them. Can they bounce back after a poor year?

Tyrone- Had a good 2013, don't think they really have the quality to win an AI yet though and the Ulster draw isn't kind.

They're the realistic contenders for me, Dublin as rightfully favourites, I do think once Mayo build up some steam in Connacht they could find their rhythm again and can definitely reach another final. The Ulster winners are unlucky in that if they make a semi it's most likel Dublin in their way.

Think Cork will win Munster but what happens from there is anyone's guess, I certainly wouldn't write them off though...

The more I think about it, it could really be a handy AI in it for the Dubs unless May come back stronger and Cork appoint well and find their best team/tactics

corny

If the Dublin lads approach 2014 as they did 2013 i can't see anyone stopping them tbh. They've still huge scope for improvement. The only question is how they're going to 'winter'. The experience of being second time winners should help but its not a given they'll have the same hunger. If thats lacking they'll lose.

Donegal and Kerry will be next best for me. Actually, i'm keen to see what Donegal team shows up. If Cork get someone the players can rally behind they'll be an obvious danger. Mayo and Tyrone will find one too good again. Meath, Galway, Kildare, etc. will look to make strides but won't be good enough after August.

The one certainty though is that time will change all of that. Ask me in 7 months time.:P

Fr Tod Umptious

Firstly I think 2014 will be a year with very few good teams in it

As for who I would rank 1 and 2 it's between Dublin and Mayo. But it all depends on how they 'winter' as the last poster said.
If Mayo can produce the same level of commitment and work as hard as they did the past two years I would put them top of the pile, but if they do not then I do not expect them to get past a SF at best
As we know from experience defending a title is very hard, but this Dublin team are young and because there is not much out there they may buck the trend in 2014, time will tell.

After that I do not see much
Tyrone could get to a final if they build on 2013 and get scoring more
Cavan could well win Ulster and go one step further in Croke Park this year
Donegal, even though they have a easy route to the Ulster final, are a bit of an unknown
The same is true of Cork
Kerry are not a contender, they may get to s SF but that is all.

So If I were to rank them now, on how the year may pan out I'd go
1 and 2 - Mayo or Dublin
3 -Tyrone
4, 5 and 6 -Cavan or Cork or Kerry
7 - Donegal
etc etc

Gerry91

The league will be important for Mayo

Some of the current team might become disillusioned, some might head off or whatever, so they might be forced to make a few changes in personnel and the league should be used as an opportunity to look at new players. Mayo have serious talent available to them and some great younger players

I think it'll be the same final pairing again, whoever wins Ulster will go down to the Dubs in the semi- Id imagine it'll be a Tyrone/Donegal final. Donegal are in D2, could actually be untested going into Ulster final and don't cope well when main players get injured/lose form. Tyrone dominated Mayo for 15/20 minutes but don't have enough all round quality yet though I think 2014 will see incremental improvement. If they win Ulster it'll be hard fought

Cork are an enigma, is a year enough to buy into a new way of thinking, new tactics etc? I think they'll go down in semi to Mayo but hard one to call

The likes of Cavan as mentioned should be even better, and someone like Meath/Down/Derry could be competitive in a quarter final with a good back door run or whatever.

In all honesty, one of Dublin, Cork or mayo will win AI I'd be amazed if anyone else. I admit it's unlikely Cork will but they have the talent there so writing them off completely isn't all that prudent

Dublin will be rightly favourites and should do it

seligehgit

The bookies rarely get it wrong....Paddy Power Odds
Dublin 13/8
Mayo 4/1
Kerry 5/1
Cork 13/2
Donegal 10/1
Tyrone 18/1

ProudDUB

Maybe it's just me, but this thing about a team wintering well has become a bit of a cliche imo. The days are long gone, when lads spend the whole winter atin' & dhrinkin nothing but chips & gargle. Ger Brennan gave a really good interview at the end of the 2012 season. He said that pretty much the whole squad arrived back at the start of the year in decent shape. They trained even harder in January and February than they did the year before when they won Sam. Their downfall was on the mental end of things & not bringing the same intensity to games that they did the year before. Once they did get it into gear in the semi final against Mayo, it was too late.

I think that that will be the main problem next year too. It won't be whether or not the players had one mince pie and turkey sambo too many in December. It will be whether or not they can replicate the 70 plus minutes of rabid intensity that they brought to each and every game in 2013. If they don't, any one of 5 or 6 teams could catch them on the hop, on any given day. It may even be as many as 7 or 8, as they've all had a full year now to figure Gavin and his systems out.

Gerry91

^^^ That's why I hope Mayo can play at the same level next year. If Dublin's hunger isn't there, an AI could be there for the taking

I think it won't be an issue with ye though, ye've a huge squad

ProudDUB

We do.

But I think that the main thing that may work in our favour in 2014, is that Gavin will be utterly ruthless in his selections. He proved in 2013 that he is no respecter of names or reputations. If he thinks a player is under performing during games or in training, or their heads just aren't right, he will have no hesitation in benching their butts. I don't think that the 2012 squad got that vibe from Pat Gilroy. Although in fairness to Giller, he didn't have quite the embarrassment of riches to choose from that Gavin does, so he didn't have the safety net to fall back on if he did start dropping people.

Stoner

seligehgit wrote: »

The bookies rarely get it wrong....Paddy Power Odds
Dublin 13/8
Mayo 4/1
Kerry 5/1
Cork 13/2
Donegal 10/1
Tyrone 18/1

Donegal might be worth a tenner.

Stoner

seligehgit wrote: »

The bookies rarely get it wrong....Paddy Power Odds
Dublin 13/8
Mayo 4/1
Kerry 5/1
Cork 13/2
Donegal 10/1
Tyrone 18/1

Donegal might be worth a tenner.

aidan24326

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

So If I were to rank them now, on how the year may pan out I'd go
1 and 2 - Mayo or Dublin
3 -Tyrone
4, 5 and 6 -Cavan or Cork or Kerry
7 - Donegal
etc etc

Major lols at Cavan in 4.5. or 6.

Try 14 or 15 and you might be a bit closer. At best.

I watched their game against London in Croke Park and it was awful stuff. They're nowhere near the level you're suggesting.

Gerry91

aidan24326 wrote: »

Major lols at Cavan in 4.5. or 6.

Try 14 or 15 and you might be a bit closer. At best.

I watched their game against London in Croke Park and it was awful stuff. They're nowhere near the level you're suggesting.

I wouldn't have them that high myself but they'd a great year and have such a young panel that another year will make a big difference to them I think

Didn't see that London game now, but I suppose it was a hard one to approach in that everyone had them nailed on for a quarter and essentially they knew all they had to do was really turn up

They were poor v Kerry mind but it kind of reminded me of Mayo in 2011 in that inexperience let them down more than anything, it'll stand to them.

corny

Stoner wrote: »

Donegal might be worth a tenner.

Yeah very interesting to see how they get on.

After 2012 i was certain Dublin would pick up where they left off in 2011, not that they'd necessarily win the AI again just they'd get back to the same performance level.

Given the manner of their complete capitulation you really can't be certain of that with Donegal. If they do 10/1 is a steal. If they don't they'll lose by 30 next year.;)

aidan24326

aidan24326 wrote: »

Major lols at Cavan in 4.5. or 6.

Try 14 or 15 and you might be a bit closer. At best.

I watched their game against London in Croke Park and it was awful stuff. They're nowhere near the level you're suggesting.

It was an improvement for them for sure but rating them as top 5 is fanciful to say the least.

I was there for the London game as I am from Galway and we were playing Cork in the next game. It was dire stuff but in fairness to Cavan they got the job done comfortably enough in the end.

In truth once you go outside the top 5 (Dublin, Mayo, Kerry, Cork, Donegal) there's probably a dozen or so teams that are much of a muchness and could all beat each other on a given day. Cavan would be part of that group.

Gerry91

aidan24326 wrote: »

It was an improvement for them for sure but rating them as top 5 is fanciful to say the least.

I was there for the London game as I am from Galway and we were playing Cork in the next game. It was dire stuff but in fairness to Cavan they got the job done comfortably enough in the end.

In truth once you go outside the top 5 (Dublin, Mayo, Kerry, Cork, Donegal) there's probably a dozen or so teams that are much of a muchness and could all beat each other on a given day. Cavan would be part of that group.

Yeah I'd agree with that!

DDC1990

For me its:

Dublin
(by a good margin)





Mayo
Kerry
(tight Kerry had a better last game, but Mayo had a better season, so Mayo #2)


Tyrone
Donegal
Cork
(either of the these 3 team can beat each other, and pull off a shock against the top 3 as well, but over a season will struggle with the consistancy needed to win the AI)

The rest. (Monaghan, Cavan, Galway, Meath, Kildare leading that group)

Lemlin

aidan24326 wrote: »

Major lols at Cavan in 4.5. or 6.

Try 14 or 15 and you might be a bit closer. At best.

I watched their game against London in Croke Park and it was awful stuff. They're nowhere near the level you're suggesting.

Nerves got the better of them that day vs London and against Kerry Hyland has admitted he got the tactics wrong.

That Cavan team beat Armagh, Derry and ran Monaghan to a point. Could of had a draw had the ref used his whistle at the end like he should have.

The starting 15 only had 3 players over 25 in it. We'll be back next year stronger hopefully.

Fr Tod Umptious

seligehgit wrote: »

The bookies rarely get it wrong....Paddy Power Odds
Dublin 13/8
Mayo 4/1
Kerry 5/1
Cork 13/2
Donegal 10/1
Tyrone 18/1

Early Championship odds can be very misleading
Here are the odds from 28/11/2012 for 2013

Donegal 10/3
Cork - 7/2
Kerry 4/1
Dublin 4/1
Mayo 11/1

There will always be money for the defending champion, even though back to back titles are very rare. And many of us doubted Donegal's ability to do in 2013 what they did in 2012
There will always be money for Dublin based on the population and their high profile
There will always be money for Kerry from the 'sure you can never write off Kerry' folk.

What surprises me so much is how short Mayo are for 2014 compared with how long they were for 2013
4/1 is very short for a team that will be trying to pick up the pieces for back to back All Ireland defeats.

keane2097

Dublin are the clear best squad at the moment. They've also got the biggest potential for improvement of what's there. Their main fear will be being off the pitch of it next year as so predictably happens to All Ireland winners. What may help them is that they have a lot more players to bring through, but it was the old guard that really swept them to victory this year in the heel of the hunt. It wouldn't take much for them to come back to the rest of the pack.

Can't see Mayo not regressing badly this coming year. Their play in 2013 was the very picture of a team becoming greater than the sum of its parts thanks to a good system, great conditioning and super dedication. Even a slight deviation from the sort of manic intensity they showed this year would see them slip back from excellent team to good team. I don't see 2014 being a happy year for them.

Kerry are the team possibly best placed to capitalise if the two above slip a bit. Not really capable of beating Dublin at their very best and an underdog against 2013's Mayo, neither of the two are far enough ahead of Kerry to be able to afford a bad day at the office against them. If the All Ireland were a longer tournament it would be tough to give Kerry much of a chance, but in a set-up where they can look to peak for just a single game, two at most, they are a very live third placed contender.

After that, it's Cork, Donegal and Tyrone in that order. Cork and Donegal are way better than Tyrone if they get their houses in order. Tyrone are very average with few players who would get in any of the other top 6/7 teams. Cork are good enough. Donegal potential Champions when everyone is fit, healthy and tuned in. 2012 Donegal vs 2013 Dublin would have been very interesting.

Gerry91

keane2097 wrote: »

Dublin are the clear best squad at the moment. They've also got the biggest potential for improvement of what's there. Their main fear will be being off the pitch of it next year as so predictably happens to All Ireland winners. What may help them is that they have a lot more players to bring through, but it was the old guard that really swept them to victory this year in the heel of the hunt. It wouldn't take much for them to come back to the rest of the pack.

Can't see Mayo not regressing badly this coming year. Their play in 2013 was the very picture of a team becoming greater than the sum of its parts thanks to a good system, great conditioning and super dedication. Even a slight deviation from the sort of manic intensity they showed this year would see them slip back from excellent team to good team. I don't see 2014 being a happy year for them.

Kerry are the team possibly best placed to capitalise if the two above slip a bit. Not really capable of beating Dublin at their very best and an underdog against 2013's Mayo, neither of the two are far enough ahead of Kerry to be able to afford a bad day at the office against them. If the All Ireland were a longer tournament it would be tough to give Kerry much of a chance, but in a set-up where they can look to peak for just a single game, two at most, they are a very live third placed contender.

After that, it's Cork, Donegal and Tyrone in that order. Cork and Donegal are way better than Tyrone if they get their houses in order. Tyrone are very average with few players who would get in any of the other top 6/7 teams. Cork are good enough. Donegal potential Champions when everyone is fit, healthy and tuned in. 2012 Donegal vs 2013 Dublin would have been very interesting.

But if they lose the Munster final away to Cork (very possible), they could hypothetically have to go through Mayo in a quarter, Cork in a semi and Dublin in a final for example. They'd need to peak for 3 games then surely

Like look at 2012 for example had they beaten Donegal in a quarter, they'd have to beat Cork again in a semi and then Mayo in a final

Even if they win Munster, Donegal or Tyrone will be coming through a back door and possible tricky teams like Down, Kildare, Meath. They couldn't really afford a bad day and if they win they'll have Mayo or Mayo's conquers in a semi and then Dublin after that!

You don't win All Irelands peaking for one game anymore

Gerry91

And also while it's easy to see Mayo not going into 2014 with the same hunger and intensity, they do have the advantage of essentially being assured of winning their province, with all respect to the other teams. The likes of Kerry/Cork, Donegal/Tyrone don't have this

So as it stands it already looks like Mayo will be playing on the august bank holiday weekend and against a back door team at that. If they get lucky like Kerry did this year and got Cavan or someone similar they'd reach an AI semi without too much fuss at all. Then the belief and intensity will surely be in full swing and they could have a right swing at it

They could get Kerry/Cork or Tyrone/Donegal but these teams' morale may well have dropped after losing a (most likely) provincial final. These are the only teams that could trouble Mayo but the turnaround is difficult as Cork and Donegal showed this year.

Put it this way I'd be very surprised to see Mayo not making a semi again next year. From there, it's hard to call

keane2097

Gerry91 wrote: »

But if they lose the Munster final away to Cork (very possible), they could hypothetically have to go through Mayo in a quarter, Cork in a semi and Dublin in a final for example. They'd need to peak for 3 games then surely

Like look at 2012 for example had they beaten Donegal in a quarter, they'd have to beat Cork again in a semi and then Mayo in a final

Even if they win Munster, Donegal or Tyrone will be coming through a back door and possible tricky teams like Down, Kildare, Meath. They couldn't really afford a bad day and if they win they'll have Mayo or Mayo's conquers in a semi and then Dublin after that!

You don't win All Irelands peaking for one game anymore

But sure I didn't say anywhere they will win anything or even that they are likely to. They're a live possibility, depending on how other teams are set up. If Donegal, Dublin, Mayo and Cork are all fighting fit and playing well come August Kerry are long odds against.

The likelihood is that out of that bunch the most likely teams to be in decent shape are Donegal and Dublin in my humble opinion, of which I expect neither to be at the levels they were in winning their AIs.

Realistically, Cork - Kerry in the Munster final will be a glorified league game as it usually is, certainly neither team will peak for it. If it goes as it has done recently, Kerry's off-peak will see them play sublime stuff for half an hour before the fact that they're two months off being well conditioned manifests itself. Cork's natural inclination to be ponderous and lateral will not have been trained out of them properly yet allowing Kerry to make them look amateur before their better conditioning becomes important in the second half. I'll probably sleep through it in any case.

Whichever team wins it doesn't really matter as it just means one extra game. I wouldn't consider Kildare, Down or Meath teams that Kerry would have to peak for much more than Cavan were. Kildare maybe, but Kerry would be three or four point favourites against the other two.

If you draw Donegal and they're playing well you're probably in trouble, but that's how this sort of thing goes. With the right draw and the right circumstances Kerry have a decent chance, if things go against them they probably don't.

Fr Tod Umptious

keane2097 wrote: »

Dublin are the clear best squad at the moment. They've also got the biggest potential for improvement of what's there. Their main fear will be being off the pitch of it next year as so predictably happens to All Ireland winners. What may help them is that they have a lot more players to bring through, but it was the old guard that really swept them to victory this year in the heel of the hunt. It wouldn't take much for them to come back to the rest of the pack.

Can't see Mayo not regressing badly this coming year. Their play in 2013 was the very picture of a team becoming greater than the sum of its parts thanks to a good system, great conditioning and super dedication. Even a slight deviation from the sort of manic intensity they showed this year would see them slip back from excellent team to good team. I don't see 2014 being a happy year for them.

Kerry are the team possibly best placed to capitalise if the two above slip a bit. Not really capable of beating Dublin at their very best and an underdog against 2013's Mayo, neither of the two are far enough ahead of Kerry to be able to afford a bad day at the office against them. If the All Ireland were a longer tournament it would be tough to give Kerry much of a chance, but in a set-up where they can look to peak for just a single game, two at most, they are a very live third placed contender.

After that, it's Cork, Donegal and Tyrone in that order. Cork and Donegal are way better than Tyrone if they get their houses in order. Tyrone are very average with few players who would get in any of the other top 6/7 teams. Cork are good enough. Donegal potential Champions when everyone is fit, healthy and tuned in. 2012 Donegal vs 2013 Dublin would have been very interesting.

I'd agree that Dublin are in the best position of any winner of the last number of years to retain the title, they have the squad, the youth, and they have won it in 2011.

And as for Mayo it will go one of two ways, all depending how they deal with 2013

keane2097

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I'd agree that Dublin are in the best position of any winner of the last number of years to retain the title, they have the squad, the youth, and they have won it in 2011.

And as for Mayo it will go one of two ways, all depending how they deal with 2013

Yeah obviously it's possible that they could come back in 2014 yet again, but as you know yourself re:All Ireland winners, it's very difficult to come back twice in a row, I don't think it's much different/easier for Mayo this year having lost two All Ireland finals in a row. At some point, some players are going to subconsciously mentally check out for a couple of months.

I forgot to account for Dr Crokes going till Patrick's Day in the earlier posts by the way, if that happens it will probably hurt Kerry's chances a bit.

Hammar

Outside Group 1, groups are in no particular order.

Group 1

Dublin, Mayo.

Group 2

Kerry,Tyrone,Donegal,Cork.

Group 3
Monaghan,Meath,Cavan,Kildare,Down,Derry,Laois,Galway.

Group 4
Armagh,Louth,Westmeath,Wexford,Roscommon,Longford,Fermanagh.

Group 5
Wicklow,Antrim,Limerick,Tipp,Sligo,London,Offaly.

Group 6
Clare,Leitrim,Waterford,Carlow.

Group 7
New York.

seligehgit

Going to keep this short and sweet,can't see past Dublin for next year even though at this stage winning a 2 in a row is extremely difficult,nigh impossible.

Cormyy

Hard to see anyone but the dubs or mayo . will dublins hunger still be there after this year and can mayo break this dismal final record. should be another great year in gaa though.

Gerry91

I'm going to rule Cork out completely now myself tbh!

Amprodude

Gerry91 wrote: »

I'm going to rule Cork out completely now myself tbh!

Cork are gone and will be for a long time im sad to say.