Football Rankings 2013

blackbelt

Surprised that there is no thread on this yet.
So another year done and lets see how the teams would rank.

1.Dublin
2.Mayo
3.Kerry
4.Cork
5.Tyrone
6.Donegal
7.Monaghan
8.Meath
9.Kildare
10.Derry
11.Down
12.Galway
13.Laois
14.Cavan
15.Armagh
16.Westmeath
17.Wexford
18.Louth
19.Limerick
20.Sligo
21.Antrim
22.Offaly
23.Clare
24.Wicklow
25.Tipperary
26.Waterford
27.Longford
28.London
29.Fermanagh
30.Carlow
31.Leitrim
32.New York

Don't think anybody can argue with the number one spot after a clean sweep of league, Leinster and All Ireland. Mayo come in at number 2 after making the final two years in a row and continuing the feat of beating the previous years All Ireland Champions. Kerry at 3 as they survived division 1blooding new players, winning Munster and showing that on a big day such as an all Ireland semi final, they have the second best forward line in the country.

Placed Cork at 4 due to their consistency over the past few years but one could argue Tyrone are fourth. Cork won the league consistently barring this year and it will be interesting to see if Tyrone will be challenging next August or September.

Donegal slip as far as 6th. A very poor league, relegation and the losses to Monaghan and Mayo show that Donegal are back on a rapid decline. Fatigue, injuries and a management that is in disarray is a huge setback.No new talent has really been found to step in for the injured players.

Monaghan placed at 7th.They are a team on the up and were impressive in division 2 and Ulster Final. I would tip them to get promoted again next year.
Meath similarly are on the up again with new manager Mick O Dowd cutting out the deadwood and bringing Meath back to division 2.Very impressive displays in the Leinster Final against Dublin and unlucky against Tyrone.

Kildare slip to 9th.A false dawn from January to March until they received a hammering from Dublin in the league. The team never really recuperated there after and their season took a nose dive.A new manager and second season for the younger players look promising however.

Derry are 10th with impressive league run and win over Down.A loss to Cavan was a surprise but Derry were quite consistent all year until then.Down are a team on the decline and have lost their top 8 billing. Galway seem to have improved slightly after a disasterous start to the championship.They are interchangeable with Laois who would be in similar circumstances.

Cavan rise to 14.Promotion to Division 2 and scalps against Armagh, Fermanagh and Derry.Martin Dunne and Eugene Keating exceptional this year.

ProudDUB

I'd put Tyrone higher up the list, certainly above Cork. Cork did eff all this year. Don't think their winning leagues in 2011 or 2012 is remotely relevant to 2013, or what will happen in 2014.

Tyrone made it to this years league final, losing to Dublin by only a couple of points. They are also the only team to beat Dublin all year. Tyrone made it to the AI semifinals this year & they really put it up to Mayo in the first half of their semifinal until they ran out of gas. And they did that after having endured all 4 arduous rounds of the qualifiers. I think they could have gone further, if they didn't have such a tough road to the knock out stages.

blackbelt

ProudDUB wrote: »

I'd put Tyrone higher up the list, certainly above Cork. Cork did eff all this year. Don't think their winning leagues in 2011 or 2012 is remotely relevant to 2013, or what will happen in 2014.

Tyrone made it to this years league final, losing to Dublin by only a couple of points. They are also the only team to beat Dublin all year. Tyrone made it to the AI semifinals this year & they really put it up to Mayo in the first half of their semifinal until they ran out of gas. And they did that after having endured all 4 arduous rounds of the qualifiers. I think they could have gone further, if they didn't have such a tough road to the knock out stages.

Probably right. Do you think they would have beaten Cork in the championship this year?

ironkiwi

When did Roscommon stop playing football?

Always_Running

blackbelt wrote: »

Surprised that there is no thread on this yet.
So another year done and lets see how the teams would rank.

1.Dublin
2.Mayo
3.Kerry
4.Cork
5.Tyrone
6.Donegal
7.Monaghan
8.Meath
9.Kildare
10.Derry
11.Down
12.Galway
13.Laois
14.Cavan
15.Armagh
16.Westmeath
17.Wexford
18.Louth
19.Limerick
20.Sligo
21.Antrim
22.Offaly
23.Clare
24.Wicklow
25.Tipperary
26.Waterford
27.Longford
28.London
29.Fermanagh
30.Carlow
31.Leitrim
32.New York

Don't think anybody can argue with the number one spot after a clean sweep of league, Leinster and All Ireland. Mayo come in at number 2 after making the final two years in a row and continuing the feat of beating the previous years All Ireland Champions. Kerry at 3 as they survived division 1blooding new players, winning Munster and showing that on a big day such as an all Ireland semi final, they have the second best forward line in the country.

Placed Cork at 4 due to their consistency over the past few years but one could argue Tyrone are fourth. Cork won the league consistently barring this year and it will be interesting to see if Tyrone will be challenging next August or September.

Donegal slip as far as 6th. A very poor league, relegation and the losses to Monaghan and Mayo show that Donegal are back on a rapid decline. Fatigue, injuries and a management that is in disarray is a huge setback.No new talent has really been found to step in for the injured players.

Monaghan placed at 7th.They are a team on the up and were impressive in division 2 and Ulster Final. I would tip them to get promoted again next year.
Meath similarly are on the up again with new manager Mick O Dowd cutting out the deadwood and bringing Meath back to division 2.Very impressive displays in the Leinster Final against Dublin and unlucky against Tyrone.

Kildare slip to 9th.A false dawn from January to March until they received a hammering from Dublin in the league. The team never really recuperated there after and their season took a nose dive.A new manager and second season for the younger players look promising however.

Derry are 10th with impressive league run and win over Down.A loss to Cavan was a surprise but Derry were quite consistent all year until then.Down are a team on the decline and have lost their top 8 billing. Galway seem to have improved slightly after a disasterous start to the championship.They are interchangeable with Laois who would be in similar circumstances.

Cavan rise to 14.Promotion to Division 2 and scalps against Armagh, Fermanagh and Derry.Martin Dunne and Eugene Keating exceptional this year.

Left out poor auld Roscommon but included New york :pac:

Cavan didn't get promotion to Division 2 that was Meath,Monaghan

ironkiwi

I think the Rossies deserve the 18 spot on that list!

ProudDUB

blackbelt wrote: »

Probably right. Do you think they would have beaten Cork in the championship this year?

Do I think that Tyrone would have beaten Cork? Oh hell yeah !

manofwisdom

ProudDUB wrote: »

I'd put Tyrone higher up the list, certainly above Cork. Cork did eff all this year. Don't think their winning leagues in 2011 or 2012 is remotely relevant to 2013, or what will happen in 2014.

Tyrone made it to this years league final, losing to Dublin by only a couple of points. They are also the only team to beat Dublin all year. Tyrone made it to the AI semifinals this year & they really put it up to Mayo in the first half of their semifinal until they ran out of gas. And they did that after having endured all 4 arduous rounds of the qualifiers. I think they could have gone further, if they didn't have such a tough road to the knock out stages.

Only two points wins against Monaghan,Meath,Roscommon all who played out of div 3 last spring and i think that win over Dublin came at a time when the Dubs had already secured a semi final spot. IMO if Tyrone had played Cork,Kerry they would have been beaten just like they were v Donegal and Mayo.

corny

ProudDUB wrote: »

I'd put Tyrone higher up the list, certainly above Cork. Cork did eff all this year. Don't think their winning leagues in 2011 or 2012 is remotely relevant to 2013, or what will happen in 2014.

Tyrone made it to this years league final, losing to Dublin by only a couple of points. They are also the only team to beat Dublin all year. Tyrone made it to the AI semifinals this year & they really put it up to Mayo in the first half of their semifinal until they ran out of gas. And they did that after having endured all 4 arduous rounds of the qualifiers. I think they could have gone further, if they didn't have such a tough road to the knock out stages.

No we lost to the mighty Wicklow in January in the O' Byrne Cup.

Surely Wicklow deserve higher than 24th for that blackbelt.;)

BNMC

1.Mayo
2.Tyrone
3.Kerry
4.Dublin
5.Cork
6.Donegal
7.Kildare
8.Monaghan
9.Meath
10.Derry
11.Down
12.Galway
13.Westmeath
14.Cavan
15.Armagh
16.Laois
17.Wexford
18.Louth
19.Limerick
20.Sligo
21.Antrim
22.Offaly
23.Clare
24.Wicklow
25.Tipperary
26.Waterford
27.Longford
28.London
29.Fermanagh
30.Leitrim
31.Carlow
32.New York

Mayo top for me. they froze in the AI final but they were the best team throughout the championship. Dublin play every championship game at home so they aren't as good as people might think. Good year for Cavan and London while Westmeath had an excellent league campaign. Meath and Monaghan also made huge progress this year.

Disappointing year for Kildare seniors but Leinster titles for their minors and u21s insure they will have a bright future if they get the right man. Longford, Limerick and Armagh seem to be going backwards.

Stoner

manofwisdom wrote: »

Only two points wins against Monaghan,Meath,Roscommon all who played out of div 3 last spring and i think that win over Dublin came at a time when the Dubs had already secured a semi final spot. IMO if Tyrone had played Cork,Kerry they would have been beaten just like they were v Donegal and Mayo.

That's true, it was the weakest Dublin team in the league.
But it was a decent strength team Tyrone ran close in the final.

All that said Cork were muck this year, I'm certain Tyrone would have beaten them, I don't know what went wrong with the Cork lads this year, two three years ago they looked so strong.

ProudDUB

corny wrote: »

No we lost to the mighty Wicklow in January in the O' Byrne Cup.

Surely Wicklow deserve higher than 24th for that blackbelt.;)

Jesus, and I was actually at that game. Talk about embarrassing !

corny

ProudDUB wrote: »

Jesus, and I was actually at that game. Talk about embarrassing !

I made the same mistake until a friend corrected me All Ireland day. I was also at that match.:D

Stoner wrote: »

That's true, it was the weakest Dublin team in the league.
But it was a decent strength team Tyrone ran close in the final.

All that said Cork were muck this year, I'm certain Tyrone would have beaten them, I don't know what went wrong with the Cork lads this year, two three years ago they looked so strong.

A bit disillusioned with Counihan i think. They'll be a force again in 2014 for my money.

ProudDUB

I'm not so sure about Cork in 2014. My spies in the Cork camp tell me that one of Counihan's selectors (Cuthbert I think) is getting the Cork job. As he is from the same "old school" style of managers as Counihan is, they are not expecting much change in the way that the team trains and in game day tactics. You get left behind very rapidly these days, if you can not adapt to changes in the game.

corny wrote: »

I made the same mistake until a friend corrected me All Ireland day. I was also at that match.:D

Well, my excuse is that my toes and other extremities (such as my brain) only began to warm up some time in mid April. What's yours?

Stoner

ProudDUB wrote: »

Jesus, and I was actually at that game. Talk about embarrassing !

So was I, that team sheet they charged a euro for and kept for the whole competition without updating it. That was embarrassing. I bought three of them, that was worse

keeponhurling

Clare have been rooted in Division 4 for quite a while, so from that point of view 23rd seems a little high.

Hard to justify us being better than Tipp, Fermanagh or Wicklow to be honest.
Also, I wouldn't be overly confident of beating Waterford (who beat us this year)

largepants

corny wrote: »

No we lost to the mighty Wicklow in January in the O' Byrne Cup.

Surely Wicklow deserve higher than 24th for that blackbelt.;)

Ehh did Kildare not beat Dublin in OByrne Cup final?

Gerry91

Will be really interesting to see how Cork do next year.

They could well be a force- bring in good manager, who picks the right team, and the young lads on the panel improve- or it could be more disappointment- bring in a poor manager, fail to pick the right 15 and even lose Walsh/Cahalane to hurling and maybe even Sheahan :eek:

I think Dublin and Mayo are quite well out ahead and are easily the two stand out favourites for 2014, though IF Cork get the right guy and can pick the right team they'll be right up there. Big IF. It's too soon for Tyrone I think. Donegal have a nice looking path in Ulster to the provincial final but even if they win it they'll be coming up against the Dubs if they make a semi and I only see one winner there

O'Se will be a huge loss to Kerry and the likes of Galvin, Donaghy, Declan O'Sullivan are getting no younger.

Fr Tod Umptious

BNMC wrote: »

1.Mayo
2.Tyrone
3.Kerry
4.Dublin
......

You cannot rank the team that won the double in 4th.

Gerry91

ProudDUB wrote: »

I'd put Tyrone higher up the list, certainly above Cork. Cork did eff all this year. Don't think their winning leagues in 2011 or 2012 is remotely relevant to 2013, or what will happen in 2014.

Tyrone made it to this years league final, losing to Dublin by only a couple of points. They are also the only team to beat Dublin all year. Tyrone made it to the AI semifinals this year & they really put it up to Mayo in the first half of their semifinal until they ran out of gas. And they did that after having endured all 4 arduous rounds of the qualifiers. I think they could have gone further, if they didn't have such a tough road to the knock out stages.

Mayo didn't turn up in the first half though. Granted Tyrone did a great job in limiting them early on but Mayo wasted a lot and when they found their rhythm they ran away with it. They had a three week break for that game Tyrone, tough road or not. They don't have the quality yet plain and simple.

It wasn't that tough a route either they only beat Roscommon by about 2 points who Mayo hammered and Kildare were woeful against them. The Meath and Monaghan wins were good professional jobs but they didn't convince me all that much.

Is that piece in bold suggesting they'd have beaten Mayo but for a "tough" road? Absolutely zero chance

Moneymaker

BNMC wrote: »

1.Mayo
2.Tyrone
3.Kerry
4.Dublin
5.Cork
6.Donegal
7.Kildare
8.Monaghan
9.Meath
10.Derry
11.Down
12.Galway
13.Westmeath
14.Cavan
15.Armagh
16.Laois
17.Wexford
18.Louth
19.Limerick
20.Sligo
21.Antrim
22.Offaly
23.Clare
24.Wicklow
25.Tipperary
26.Waterford
27.Longford
28.London
29.Fermanagh
30.Leitrim
31.Carlow
32.New York

Mayo top for me. they froze in the AI final but they were the best team throughout the championship. Dublin play every championship game at home so they aren't as good as people might think. Good year for Cavan and London while Westmeath had an excellent league campaign. Meath and Monaghan also made huge progress this year.

Disappointing year for Kildare seniors but Leinster titles for their minors and u21s insure they will have a bright future if they get the right man. Longford, Limerick and Armagh seem to be going backwards.

So 3 teams who Dublin all beat MULTIPLE times are ranked higher then them?

Whaaaaaat?

Gerry91

Moneymaker wrote: »

So 3 teams who Dublin all beat MULTIPLE times are ranked higher then them?

Whaaaaaat?

Tyrone ahead of Kerry is bad enough. Dublin 4th is insane, they're clearly the best team in the country

Unless it's ranking the chances ahead of next season but even then Dublin are still top 2 anyway surely on everyone's list?

klairondavis

Dublin

gap

Kerry/Mayo

gap

Cork/Donegal/Tyrone

gap

Meath/Kildare/Monaghan/Derry/Galway/Cavan

Gerry91

klairondavis wrote: »

Dublin

gap

Kerry/Mayo

gap

Cork/Donegal/Tyrone

gap

Meath/Kildare/Monaghan/Derry/Galway/Cavan

There's not much of a gap between mayo and Dublin at all and this Mayo side is better than Kerry IMO

klairondavis

Gerry91 wrote: »

There's not much of a gap between mayo and Dublin at all and this Mayo side is better than Kerry IMO

I can't agree. Dublin have more scope to improve than Mayo. They have a younger team and there is more depth to their panel. Kerry are about equal with Mayo at the moment. Mayo have a better back line and midfield but Kerry have far more individual talent in their forward line who are still on top of their game as they showed in the semi final. Despite what the scorelines might say, I think they pushed Dublin a lot harder than Mayo did.

Gerry91

klairondavis wrote: »

I can't agree. Dublin have more scope to improve than Mayo. They have a younger team and there is more depth to their panel. Kerry are about equal with Mayo at the moment. Mayo have a better back line and midfield but Kerry have far more individual talent in their forward line who are still on top of their game as they showed in the semi final. Despite what the scorelines might say, I think they pushed Dublin a lot harder than Mayo did.

That was Kerry playing at their maximum though and Mayo were below par in the final that's obvious. I think Dublin are better but not by much, if they were to play again I really couldn't call it. Everyone has scope to improve hypothetically but that's what it is hypothetical. In the present not much separates them

You could say Mayo's forward wouldn't do the damage Dublin's ones would but Mayo's backs would be tighter most likely to better cope with Kerry's forwards

Mayo reached a league and AI final in 2012, a league semi and AI final in 2013.

Kerry reached a league semi and AI QF in 2012 and were brutal in the league and made an AI semi beating Cavan unconvincingly to get there. They played very well v Dublin but it was a strange old game too had that chance fallen to anyone but MDMA in the first minute it could have been the platform for a demolition job who knows. On the other scale had Declan O'S kicked that over the bar before that kickout lead to the goal it could have been different too

If Mayo played Kerry though, I'd be very confident they'd beat them and it's clear they've been better over the past 2 years

EDIT- of course the best way of measuring is actual matches between the two but only one took place this year which Mayo won handy. They played last year in league too, which Mayo won (semi) don't remember how group game went but that's a year and a half ago now anyway in fairness

ProudDUB

Gerry91 wrote: »

Mayo didn't turn up in the first half though. Granted Tyrone did a great job in limiting them early on but Mayo wasted a lot and when they found their rhythm they ran away with it. They had a three week break for that game Tyrone, tough road or not. They don't have the quality yet plain and simple.

It wasn't that tough a route either they only beat Roscommon by about 2 points who Mayo hammered and Kildare were woeful against them. The Meath and Monaghan wins were good professional jobs but they didn't convince me all that much.

Is that piece in bold suggesting they'd have beaten Mayo but for a "tough" road? Absolutely zero chance

We won't ever know what would have happened if Tyrone did not have to go through the qualifiers. We won't ever know what would have happened if when they played Mayo, they had both played the same number of games. What we do know is that Tyrone got very, very far into the All Ireland series and at half time in their semi final, they looked like a realistic contender for a spot in another All Ireland final. And they did all that by starting their year very early in May & playing a lot more games than Mayo did.

I'm not saying that they would have won the All Ireland if they did not have the long hard road to the semi final that they had. I'm saying that they accomplished far more than Cork did this year and they did it in more difficult circumstances, so they deserve to be ranked higher than them. Add in that they have of the canniest managers around and Cork don't have anyone at all the helm & it becomes even more apparent imo.

largepants wrote: »

Ehh did Kildare not beat Dublin in OByrne Cup final?

I think most people are basing their rankings on how counties did in the League and AI champo. Pre season tournaments like the O'Byrne Cup have too many regulars missing, and feature too many young players who won't get within an arses roar of a jersey come the summer time, to be taken seriously. Unless you live in Wickla or Kildare that is. :P

klairondavis

Gerry91 wrote: »

That was Kerry playing at their maximum though and Mayo were below par in the final that's obvious. I think Dublin are better but not by much, if they were to play again I really couldn't call it. Everyone has scope to improve hypothetically but that's what it is hypothetical. In the present not much separates them

You could say Mayo's forward wouldn't do the damage Dublin's ones would but Mayo's backs would be tighter most likely to better cope with Kerry's forwards

Mayo reached a league and AI final in 2012, a league semi and AI final in 2013.

Kerry reached a league semi and AI QF in 2012 and were brutal in the league and made an AI semi beating Cavan unconvincingly to get there. They played very well v Dublin but it was a strange old game too had that chance fallen to anyone but MDMA in the first minute it could have been the platform for a demolition job who knows. On the other scale had Declan O'S kicked that over the bar before that kickout lead to the goal it could have been different too

If Mayo played Kerry though, I'd be very confident they'd beat them and it's clear they've been better over the past 2 years

EDIT- of course the best way of measuring is actual matches between the two but only one took place this year which Mayo won handy. They played last year in league too, which Mayo won (semi) don't remember how group game went but that's a year and a half ago now anyway in fairness

I would not base anything on league form. It's worthless.

I think any hypothetical match between Kerry and Mayo would be 50/50 hence why I have rated them together. Even with their rising age profile and a few retirements Kerry still have a number of key players who raise their game for the big occasion. With the exception of Higgins, Mayo's key players retreated into their shell on All Ireland Final day when the game was there for the taking.

Gerry91

ProudDUB wrote: »

We won't ever know what would have happened if Tyrone did not have to go through the qualifiers. We won't ever know what would have happened if when they played Mayo, they had both played the same number of games. What we do know is that Tyrone got very, very far into the All Ireland series and at half time in their semi final, they looked like a realistic contender for a spot in another All Ireland final. And they did all that by starting their year very early in May & playing a lot more games than Mayo did.

I'm not saying that they would have won the All Ireland if they did not have the long hard road to the semi final that they had. I'm saying that they accomplished far more than Cork did this year and they did it in more difficult circumstances, so they deserve to be ranked higher than them. Add in that they have of the canniest managers around and Cork don't have anyone at all the helm & it becomes even more apparent imo.

Tyrone had a better 2013 than Cork- definitely

Mayo are a better team than tyrone though plain and simple. Had Mayo brought Donegal form into the first half it could have been a massacre. When they actually found their feet they showed how much of a class above they are

I couldn't say Tyrone were looking good at all at HT, fine they were leading but had been camped in their half for a good bit at that stage, they were hanging on. Not one of the RTE pundits fancied them at that point and all over twitter/here was about how Mayo would punish them as they weren't more ahead

So I don't think you could genuinely say Tyrone would have beaten Mayo had they played less games simply because they're aren't as good as them. Of course we'll never know what would have happened but it's very likely Mayo would have won any day of the week

I think Tyrone are immensely over-rated they struggled through a lot of games and were terrible v Donegal and bar a good opening 15 minutes were outclassed by Mayo. They'd a good league in fairness though alright

Gerry91

klairondavis wrote: »

I would not base anything on league form. It's worthless.

I think any hypothetical match between Kerry and Mayo would be 50/50 hence why I have rated them together. Even with their rising age profile and a few retirements Kerry still have a number of key players who raise their game for the big occasion. With the exception of Higgins, Mayo's key players retreated into their shell on All Ireland Final day when the game was there for the taking.

Not necessarily. 3 of the league semi-finalists turned into AI semi-finalists. The league's importance is underrated for me

The two relegated teams had a championship to forget

I'd be more inclined to use the league as a basis than cliches like Kerry are Kerry, and Kerry turn up on the big day etc

klairondavis

Gerry91 wrote: »

Not necessarily. 3 of the league semi-finalists turned into AI semi-finalists. The league's importance is underrated for me

The two relegated teams had a championship to forget

I'd be more inclined to use the league as a basis than cliches like Kerry are Kerry, and Kerry turn up on the big day etc

What's cliched about it? Apart from a small handful of exceptions over the past 16 years or so it has generally rang true and this year was no exception. The forward display that Kerry produced against Dublin was superb. If Mayo had even one of those forwards in their line up they would be a formidable proposition for any team.

Gerry91

klairondavis wrote: »

What's cliched about it? Apart from a small handful of exceptions over the past 16 years or so it has generally rang true and this year was no exception. The forward display that Kerry produced against Dublin was superb. If Mayo had even one of those forwards in their line up they would be a formidable proposition for any team.

Because there is no comparison between this ageing Kerry side and the one that blew everyone away in the 00's (or last 16 years as you put it, whenever)

I agree the forward display was impressive and Gooch is the best forward in the country IMO. I thought they played well v Dub Im not denying it. I just don't think they're as good as Mayo, plain and simple

Don't agree with the last sentence necessarily, they reached an AI final with a score difference of 68 points if that doesn't make them a formidable prospect I don't know

I know the response will be, why couldn't they do it in the final then, well to answer in the most simplistic of ways, it just didn't happen on the day
EDIT- The "Marquee forward" discussion was done in the Mayo GAA thread and was interesting

ProudDUB

I think that the league is becoming more and more important, and more a reflection of how well you will do in the summer. The likes of Kerry are an exception rather than the rule. They can use the league merely to blood new players. If they lose more games than they win, they are still happy enough, as long as they avoid relegation. They know that they have what it takes to right the ship come August. Very few other counties have that luxury.

Gerry91 wrote: »

Tyrone had a better 2013 than Cork- definitely

Mayo are a better team than tyrone though plain and simple. Had Mayo brought Donegal form into the first half it could have been a massacre. When they actually found their feet they showed how much of a class above they are

I couldn't say Tyrone were looking good at all at HT, fine they were leading but had been camped in their half for a good bit at that stage, they were hanging on. Not one of the RTE pundits fancied them at that point and all over twitter/here was about how Mayo would punish them as they weren't more ahead

So I don't think you could genuinely say Tyrone would have beaten Mayo had they played less games simply because they're aren't as good as them. Of course we'll never know what would have happened but it's very likely Mayo would have won any day of the week

I think Tyrone are immensely over-rated they struggled through a lot of games and were terrible v Donegal and bar a good opening 15 minutes were outclassed by Mayo. They'd a good league in fairness though alright

I agree with all this, but while form during games is one thing, getting results and how far you progress in a tournament are more important in ranking a team imo. They are indisputable facts. The ebbs and flows of various games are always open to debate. Tyrone made it to the league final, they are the only county to defeat Dublin (with all due respects to the O'Byrne Cup winners ) this year and, they made it to the All Ireland semifinal. Cork came no where close to doing any of that, which is what my original points about Tyrone were about.

Fr Tod Umptious

How far Kerry got in 2013 is no surprise

They were always likely to play Cork in the Munster final and win that because it was always going to be on in Killarney
This meant that they would play a qualifier in the QF, which could have been anyone, in this case it was Cavan
And then they were due to come up against Dublin in the SF which is where they would get beaten, and they did

They will have a sightly tougher time in 2014 as they will have to play Cork in Cork
But in 2014 they will be no more contenders than 2013 so a SF is about a far as they will get.

Gerry91

They benefit hugely from the fact they're essentially guaranteed to be in the last 12 at least before a ball is kicked^^

premierstone

Gerry91 wrote: »

They benefit hugely from the fact they're essentially guaranteed to be in the last 12 at least before a ball is kicked^^

As are Mayo tbf and Dublin and Cork for that matter.

Fowler87

One thing for certain from a few of the lists, London deserve a higher rating than 28! Remember they did reach a Connacht Final and only for running out of steam, gave a Cavan a tough game in the last 12. 14 or 15 for me.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

1.Dublin
2.Mayo
3.Kerry
4.Cork
5.Tyrone
6.Donegal
7.Meath
8.Down
9.Kildare
10.Monaghan
11.Derry
12.Galway
13.Laois
14.Cavan
15.Armagh
16.Westmeath
17.Wexford
18.Louth
19.Roscommon
20.Limerick
21.Sligo
22.Fermanagh
23.Antrim
24.Offaly
25.Clare
26.Wicklow
27.London
28.Tipperary
29.Waterford
30.Longford
31.Carlow
32.Leitrim
33.New York

Didn't change around much, just thought that denying that we exist was a little harsh on Roscommon. We gave Tyrone a bit of a fright but lost heavily to Mayo but I reckon we're better than any of the teams I have below us there, and have the capacity to beat any of the teams from 10 down on the day.

The only reason I have Galway anywhere above 20 is the game they gave Cork, could and should have beaten them that day imo, but I still think they are a team in serious transition, apart from that they were spanked by Mayo, staggered past Waterford and Tipp and beat an Armagh team who were poor on the day. They have some good young players though and will be back challenging for Connacht soon.

corny

klairondavis wrote: »

I can't agree. Dublin have more scope to improve than Mayo. They have a younger team and there is more depth to their panel. Kerry are about equal with Mayo at the moment. Mayo have a better back line and midfield but Kerry have far more individual talent in their forward line who are still on top of their game as they showed in the semi final. Despite what the scorelines might say, I think they pushed Dublin a lot harder than Mayo did.

I agree. I never got the sense Mayo were gonna be able to score enough to beat Dublin, despite being competitive in open play. I actually think, again despite scoreline, Dublin have a bit in hand of Mayo. They played awful, finished with 13 men, finished ridiculously the wrong side of the free count but still won handy. The result wouldn't change if they played again imo.

Kerry on the other hand? Had Anthony Maher not crashed into Tomas O' Shea Kerry would have won clean possession in midfield, McManamon wouldn't have scored his goal and perhaps Kerry would have prevailed. That was the margin. I don't buy that that was their 'maximum' either. They made mistakes just like Dublin that day. The difference between them and Mayo is that they're infinitely more threatening in attack.

Gerry91

premierstone wrote: »

As are Mayo tbf and Dublin and Cork for that matter.

Gee I wish! Just beacuse we annihilated all round us in Connacht this year doesn't mean we're guaranteed a last 12 place all the time now. Sure last year we only beat Sligo by a point or two. Many tipped us to lose to Galway in the first round this year.

As recently as 2010 we didn't make it

Now that Munster is seeded Kerry and Cork are nailed on, when seriously was the last time Kerry lost to waterford/Clare/Lk/Tipp?

Gerry91

corny wrote: »

I agree. I never got the sense Mayo were gonna be able to score enough to beat Dublin, despite being competitive in open play. I actually think, again despite scoreline, Dublin have a bit in hand of Mayo. They played awful, finished with 13 men, finished ridiculously the wrong side of the free count but still won handy. The result wouldn't change if they played again imo.

Kerry on the other hand? Had Anthony Maher not crashed into Tomas O' Shea Kerry would have won clean possession in midfield, McManamon wouldn't have scored his goal and perhaps Kerry would have prevailed. That was the margin. I don't buy that that was their 'maximum' either. They made mistakes just like Dublin that day. The difference between them and Mayo is that they're infinitely more threatening in attack.

You can't seriously say Kerry are better than mayo based on how both performed against one team on two different occasions. So many variables at play

Firstly you'd need to make sure the "control" Dublin would be constant (basically the Dublin performance is identical on both days) which is impossible. Different days, occasions, weather conditions, flow of the game and opposition will ensure this is an impossibility

By that logic I could say Sligo were a better team than Dublin in 2012 as they gave Mayo an all round tougher game in my opinion

Actually I'll go one better and say that Sligo (who maybe should have beaten Kerry) in 09 were the second best team in the country as they gave them the tightest match all year. It's silly logic with all respect

Tyrone gave Mayo a tougher game this year than Donegal, yet Donegal beat Tyrone.

As I say the best way is to measure the match up between the teams, and only one happened. The earlier poster, understandably I guess, discounted that as meaningless, however we don't have anything else to go on, just opinion from seeing the two all year. IMO Mayo were way ahead based on performances throughout the season. I'd imagine most would agree

Gerry91

deccurley wrote: »

Didn't change around much, just thought that denying that we exist was a little harsh on Roscommon. We gave Tyrone a bit of a fright but lost heavily to Mayo but I reckon we're better than any of the teams I have below us there, and have the capacity to beat any of the teams from 10 down on the day.

The only reason I have Galway anywhere above 20 is the game they gave Cork, could and should have beaten them that day imo, but I still think they are a team in serious transition, apart from that they were spanked by Mayo, staggered past Waterford and Tipp and beat an Armagh team who were poor on the day. They have some good young players though and will be back challenging for Connacht soon.

I'm sure he just forgot in fairness easy enough to do

aveytare

Gerry91 wrote: »

Because there is no comparison between this ageing Kerry side and the one that blew everyone away in the 00's (or last 16 years as you put it, whenever)

Tyrone?

Gerry91

aveytare wrote: »

Tyrone?

That blew *most teams away, dearest apologies

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

Gerry91 wrote: »

I'm sure he just forgot in fairness easy enough to do

I know, was exaggerating

largepants

ProudDUB wrote: »

We won't ever know what would have happened if Tyrone did not have to go through the qualifiers. We won't ever know what would have happened if when they played Mayo, they had both played the same number of games. What we do know is that Tyrone got very, very far into the All Ireland series and at half time in their semi final, they looked like a realistic contender for a spot in another All Ireland final. And they did all that by starting their year very early in May & playing a lot more games than Mayo did.

I'm not saying that they would have won the All Ireland if they did not have the long hard road to the semi final that they had. I'm saying that they accomplished far more than Cork did this year and they did it in more difficult circumstances, so they deserve to be ranked higher than them. Add in that they have of the canniest managers around and Cork don't have anyone at all the helm & it becomes even more apparent imo.



I think most people are basing their rankings on how counties did in the League and AI champo. Pre season tournaments like the O'Byrne Cup have too many regulars missing, and feature too many young players who won't get within an arses roar of a jersey come the summer time, to be taken seriously. Unless you live in Wickla or Kildare that is. :P

I was only correcting someone who said Tyrone and Wicklow were the only teams to beat team.

harpsman

Gerry91 wrote: »

There's not much of a gap between mayo and Dublin at all and this Mayo side is better than Kerry IMO

I dont agree. I wouldnt put any of the mayo forwards in the top 15 in the country whereas id probably put all of dublins 6 starters. If the sides were to meet next week id take dublin by at least 4 points

raher1

Moneymaker wrote: »

So 3 teams who Dublin all beat MULTIPLE times are ranked higher then them?

Whaaaaaat?

Galway are a bit high, one swallow doesn't make a summer!

keane2097

klairondavis wrote: »

Dublin

gap

Kerry/Mayo

gap

Cork/Donegal/Tyrone

gap

Meath/Kildare/Monaghan/Derry/Galway/Cavan

Saved me typing exactly this, ty!

keane2097

Gerry91 wrote: »

Gee I wish! Just beacuse we annihilated all round us in Connacht this year doesn't mean we're guaranteed a last 12 place all the time now. Sure last year we only beat Sligo by a point or two. Many tipped us to lose to Galway in the first round this year.

As recently as 2010 we didn't make it

Now that Munster is seeded Kerry and Cork are nailed on, when seriously was the last time Kerry lost to waterford/Clare/Lk/Tipp?

There's not much of a difference between the other four in Munster and the other five in Connacht.

tritium

BNMC wrote: »

1.Mayo
2.Tyrone
3.Kerry
4.Dublin
5.Cork
6.Donegal
7.Kildare
8.Monaghan
9.Meath
10.Derry
11.Down
12.Galway
13.Westmeath
14.Cavan
15.Armagh
16.Laois
17.Wexford
18.Louth
19.Limerick
20.Sligo
21.Antrim
22.Offaly
23.Clare
24.Wicklow
25.Tipperary
26.Waterford
27.Longford
28.London
29.Fermanagh
30.Leitrim
31.Carlow
32.New York

Mayo top for me. they froze in the AI final but they were the best team throughout the championship. Dublin play every championship game at home so they aren't as good as people might think. Good year for Cavan and London while Westmeath had an excellent league campaign. Meath and Monaghan also made huge progress this year.

Disappointing year for Kildare seniors but Leinster titles for their minors and u21s insure they will have a bright future if they get the right man. Longford, Limerick and Armagh seem to be going backwards.

Hahahahahahahahahahaha


Gas man!

Oh!......

You're serious...........
(Long silence.........)


Hahahahahahahahahahahaha...