Issues With New Tenants - Advice?

Tokyo

Backstory - I own a property in the West of Ireland, but as I spent most of my time abroad, I've recently rented it out to a family here. My parents invested quite a bit of money in renovations even though it's mine, and as a result we agreed that they would claim whatever rent is generated by the property until I return permanently, which is more than fine with me, however they have never leased property before, so it's fallen back on me to take care of dealing with the tenants, etc, no big deal.

The family that my parents agreed to lease the property seem pretty decent, and as people I like them, however I've noticed a few things over the past week that don't sit well with me, and I need some impartial advice.

1. They have cats. That they failed to mention that they had pets when looking at the house, and I only found out accidentally about after they moved in when I saw two cat baskets and a litter box inside the house. Everything in the house is new including the timber floors, and I'd have liked the opportunity to at least consider whether I wanted to let my house out to a family with pets.

2. They are installing a satellite dish next week and plan on drilling holes to mount the dish and through window frames to run cables. Again I only found out about this by accident today, otherwise I wouldn't have known until I saw the dish on the wall.

3. There have been a few requests/demands that so far I have catered to because (a) I've worked in various trades and it's not difficult for me to fulfil most requests myself, and (b) I don't mind, to a point, making additions that are in my best interests in the future, e.g they asked for a garden shed which I installed today, the missus requested a splashback behind the cooker top which I'll put in next week, and I'll put a vent in the laundry room wall for a dryer for them because chances are, it'll be used again in the future. But now I hear mention of "a list" of things that need to be done, which doesn't bode well.

Now I've had terrible landlords in the past and I don't want to be one myself, and I understand that a tenant has to be able to live in the property and to be able to make it their home without my interference, and that I can't mollycoddle it as MY house while they are in there. Putting in picture hooks and whatever isn't a problem as I can easily plaster them afterwards, however I think that it's reasonable to expect a phone call from a tenant if they plan on drilling holes in the building to mount a dish, or drilling holes in PVC window frames to run internet and satellite cables as they aren't simple things to undo afterwards, particularly the window frames. When I rented property, I wouldn't have considered doing anything to the property, but unfortunately the arrangement between the family and my parents is more... informal... in terms of an official lease with terms and conditions.

Seeing as my parents are clueless about all of this and it's kind of been dumped in my lap, I plan on discussing this with the tenant myself. I'm just curious as to what other members here think or how they would deal with it - both tenants and landlords alike. Am I being too protective of my property or asking too much above? Should I be dealing with this differently??? Any opinions will be appreciated.

Marcusm

You are very reasonable. The pets are annoying but some people (esp outside cities) don't see them as something to discuss - they're just a natural feature. Drilling holes for the satellite dish or to run cables absolutely should require your permission which I would only give if it was being professionally installed and certainly not through a PVC window frame. Personally, I'd prefer a dish to be chimney mounted and without any drilling through the exteriror surface (whether brick or render) but using the strapping method. Running the cables through the roof space (alongside existing aerial cables?) would also be more sensible.

Regarding the dryer - recommend that they get a dryer which condenses the water but vents into the house - why on earth waste the energy heating up the air then sending it outside while running a heating system as well.

the world wonders

mike_ie wrote: »

1. They have cats. That they failed to mention that they had pets when looking at the house, and I only found out accidentally about after they moved in when I saw two cat baskets and a litter box inside the house. Everything in the house is new including the timber floors, and I'd have liked the opportunity to at least consider whether I wanted to let my house out to a family with pets.

If they've been there for less than six months and they have not signed a fixed term lease then you can terminate the tenancy with 28 days notice. Otherwise there is nothing you can do about the cats at this stage.

Drilling holes in the walls is a different matter entirely and you should make it clear to them that the landlord's approval is required for any structural alterations.

JOSman

Be careful with the cats. They can leave a smell that will never leave. Personally, I wouldn't have cats in my house.

To each their own.

Tokyo

Marcusm wrote:

The pets are annoying but some people (esp outside cities) don't see them as something to discuss - they're just a natural feature.

I agree to a point - I live in the countryside and have animals myself, as does most people I know. Which is why this point alone hasn't been a make-or-break for me. And yes, while my parents should have specifically said "no pets" if that was the hard line they were going to take, I don't feel that renting with pets falls under the guise of "don't ask, don't tell" - if you are looking to rent, and you have pets, you ask the property owner. However, I've let them know that I know that they have cats, and that it's their responsibility to ensure that they don't cause damage, and to repair/replace it if they do.

the world wonders wrote: »

If they've been there for less than six months and they have not signed a fixed term lease then you can terminate the tenancy with 28 days notice. Otherwise there is nothing you can do about the cats at this stage.

They just moved in a week ago - the reason I've found out about this stuff is that there were still a few things to finish in the house (its a *new* renovation) and they agreed that I and other tradespeople could come around to finish off the few outstanding jobs that remain. Which is becoming a bit of an issue in itself, as they are coming up with things for the contractor to do as if it were their own property.

Drilling holes in the walls is a different matter entirely and you should make it clear to them that the landlord's approval is required for any structural alterations.

That would be my thought too - it's common courtesy if nothing else.

foggy_lad

You need to sort out these issues before you let these people move in fully. As for the cats, I hate cats and wouldn't have them in the house but some people don't mind them, but as said above they will leave a smell that never goes away.

Tell them that you will only allow a dish to be installed professionally and with you present so that they can't try to pull any more stunts. Sky installers usually look for existing cable connections and if none are available they will drill through the wall but the hole is really small, just large enough for the cable to pass through. Do not allow them drill holes in your window frames as holes in masonry is easier to plug than PVC window frames

Don't make holes in walls for vents as this will turn that part of the house into a draughty fridge! Any more requests like putting vents through walls etc and just tell them that the house is obviously not not ideally suited to them and allow them to leave without paying out the remainder of the lease.

The_Conductor

It would appear you've been too amenable to their every need- and they see you as a bit of a pushover. Pets- should always be mentioned- period. Most country people keep a cat, yes, but almost never an indoor cat- there would be a bed for the cat along with a warm blanket or whatever, in an out house. Good luck to you with your new wooden floor- and indeed the furniture- I can only imagine what the cat(s) decide to use as a scratching post (they do love to scratch- I've seen domestic cats totally ring and kill apple trees). You mentioned 2 cat baskets- this means there are at least 2 and possibly more cats.

As for the satellite dish- under no circumstances should they have been allowed do this without your express permission.

Re: the contractor on site- he answers to you, and no-one else. He'll be there until doomsday with the most bizarre of wishlists- if you don't hit this on the head immediately.

You have been seen as a soft touch and because they got away with a few bits and bods- the list is only going to grow and may indeed never be completed.

Ps- the cats alone would be reason enough for most landlords to ask them to leave immediately.

dharma200

Maybe just let it settle for a while, do mention you need good notice and for them to request permission for any structural work such as hole drilling.

I think there is always a sort of snag period with new tenants, it will settle.

I don't mind cats personally, they smell much less than dogs. It is an unsettled period for both parties, you say there is unfinished work on both parties behalf, perhaps they are just wishing to get it all done at the start and that's it.

I would rather a tenant with a list if things to be done within reason than a tenant who doesn't give a flying hoot about the property. Tell the, you will do what you can, when you can within reason. I think giving a shed was decent of you, a splash back shows to me they are clean people.

I honestly think just give it a few weeks, and see does it all settle, apart from the drilling of holes, I am sure once it is explained to them that works such as structural works need to be done properly. Unfortunately I think it is not unreasonable for tenants now to expect good satellite and Internet cables etc and you might find this works in the future either for yourself, new tenants or for buyer.

Also, bear in mind nowadays there is no such thing as an informal agreement, once the tenant has been there for a period the rights are granted, informal or whatever doesn't come into it... Get everyone in the know on current legislation, get contracts and agreements in place, and save yourself a lot of formality in the future. If the tenants don't settle I suggest you stop leasing to them before six months is up... Good luck

banbhaaifric

Posting as someone who rented for years, they are completely taking advantage of your good nature, and also of the fact that work is being done.

I would NEVER have assumed pets were ok. The opposite tbh, and I've rented both in cities and the countryside. They wreck the place. The place I'm in now you can see evidence of the previous tenants animal everywhere, wooden floors are all scratched and even the French doors to the garden are all scratched.

Also, like you said, putting up pictures etc I would think was ok, but nothing that could be classed as interfering with the structure of the property ( and who the hell drills into upvc anyway...?)

Plus 1 to what the other posters have said, you need to put a stop to the way things are going. As I say, as a renter I think they are taking the p1ss...

Out of curiosity have they signed a written lease? Most standard ones have clauses about pets, alterations etc.

athtrasna

Personally I would give them notice to quit. It's a slippery slope. Insist that they cancel the satellite installation and if they proceed tell them you will pursue them for costs of restoring the property to it's prior condition.

Tokyo

The_Conductor wrote: »

It would appear you've been too amenable to their every need- and they see you as a bit of a pushover. Pets- should always be mentioned- period. Most country people keep a cat, yes, but almost never an indoor cat- there would be a bed for the cat along with a warm blanket or whatever, in an out house. Good luck to you with your new wooden floor- and indeed the furniture- I can only imagine what the cat(s) decide to use as a scratching post (they do love to scratch- I've seen domestic cats totally ring and kill apple trees). You mentioned 2 cat baskets- this means there are at least 2 and possibly more cats.

I should have mentioned that the house came unfurnished and it's their own furniture now in the house. If it were my own then it wouldn't even be a question - no pets, period, unless it lives in a bowl or in a cage. But I won't lie, I am concerned about the possibility of damage to the flooring and the possibility of catpiss soaking into the underlay.

I don't believe enough time has passed for me to be a pushover - although I didn't *have* to comply with their requests, I did because it suits me to make the changes that they requested and tried to make that as transparent as possible. But yeah, I can see that they might see my parents as being not clued in on the whole being a landlord thing and may be pushing the envelope to see what they can get.[/quote]

Re: the contractor on site- he answers to you, and no-one else. He'll be there until doomsday with the most bizarre of wishlists- if you don't hit this on the head immediately.

Already has been - he's a friend and gave me a heads up immediately.

dharma200 wrote: »

Maybe just let it settle for a while, do mention you need good notice and for them to request permission for any structural work such as hole drilling.

I think there is always a sort of snag period with new tenants, it will settle.

I'm hoping that this is the case. As I said, I think that they are decent people, and I understand that they are excited at moving into a new home, particularly one thats a "home" and not just someones investment property if that make sense. And it's easy to lose the run of yourself in a situation like that. But I'm concerned that I may be wrong and that there may be repurcussions.

I would rather a tenant with a list if things to be done within reason than a tenant who doesn't give a flying hoot about the property. Tell the, you will do what you can, when you can within reason. I think giving a shed was decent of you, a splash back shows to me they are clean people.

I completely agree, and have had friends with absolute horror stories because of tenants that couldn't give a toss - which is why I'm trying to meet reasonable requests. That being said, I think that they have slipped into the "this is my new home and I get to pick all the tiles and paint colours and trimmings mode" and need to take a step back.

I honestly think just give it a few weeks, and see does it all settle, apart from the drilling of holes, I am sure once it is explained to them that works such as structural works need to be done properly. Unfortunately I think it is not unreasonable for tenants now to expect good satellite and Internet cables etc and you might find this works in the future either for yourself, new tenants or for buyer.

I don't think it's unreasonable either, I'm fine with them getting in the services that they want, but I think that it's reasonable to ask me beforehand, and to ask me where I'd be happy with these fixtures being installed and how - i.e. not the cheapest option of drilling an unrepairable hole through my window frames and running a cable through. It's their home, but it's my property, and ultimately I'm the one that will have to fix these problems in the end. I've been a tenant for many years, as have many of my friends - and I'd never consider drilling holes without consent first.

Also, bear in mind nowadays there is no such thing as an informal agreement, once the tenant has been there for a period the rights are granted, informal or whatever doesn't come into it... Get everyone in the know on current legislation, get contracts and agreements in place, and save yourself a lot of formality in the future. If the tenants don't settle I suggest you stop leasing to them before six months is up... Good luck

Yeah, I know.... but unfortunately this was dropped in my lap after the fact, and I'm trying to do the best with what I've been given. I've done my homework on what my rights are and the tenants rights, part 4 tenancies after six months etc, I just hope that it's information I never have to use and that everything settles down to running smoothly.

I appreciate the responses.

the_syco

mike_ie wrote: »

They have cats.

If you had "no pets" listed in your lease, tell them it's them or the cats. If you didn't say "no pets", well, most people would assume that it'd mean "pets allowed".

mike_ie wrote: »

as they are coming up with things for the contractor to do as if it were their own property.

I'd be of the opinion that your contractor works for you, and not them, and they should be told this.

mike_ie wrote: »

plan on drilling holes to mount the dish and through window frames to run cables.

They're starting to take the piss here.

mike_ie wrote: »

I should have mentioned that the house came unfurnished and it's their own furniture now in the house.

Yeah. Maybe check if they have a kitty scratching pole, to avoid the door getting the kitties attention.

mike_ie wrote: »

They just moved in a week ago

mike_ie wrote: »

I don't believe enough time has passed for me to be a pushover

Well, they've been there a week, and you have pretty much done anything they've asked, so they may see you as an easy target.

djimi

the_syco wrote: »

If you had "no pets" listed in your lease, tell them it's them or the cats. If you didn't say "no pets", well, most people would assume that it'd mean "pets allowed".

I think that would be a pretty naive assumption to make in fairness. Perhaps the landlord should clarify the situation, but as a tenant if you want to bring pets into the property, especially cats or dogs, then you really should clarify with the landlord. Especially where no signed lease is in place and you have zero protection, so if the landlord decides that they dont want the pets there they have six months to ask you to leave and there is nothing that you can do about it.

OP if you dont want the cats there then inform the tenants that you will exercise your right to terminate the tenancy as you were not informed about the pets prior to the commencement of the tenancy. The drilling for the dish is also massively taking the piss; nobody in their right mind would think that this is okay without consulting their landlord first.

Kristopherus

Marcusm wrote: »

You are very reasonable. The pets are annoying but some people (esp outside cities) don't see them as something to discuss - they're just a natural feature. Drilling holes for the satellite dish or to run cables absolutely should require your permission which I would only give if it was being professionally installed and certainly not through a PVC window frame. Personally, I'd prefer a dish to be chimney mounted and without any drilling through the exteriror surface (whether brick or render) but using the strapping method. Running the cables through the roof space (alongside existing aerial cables?) would also be more sensible.

Regarding the dryer - recommend that they get a dryer which condenses the water but vents into the house - why on earth waste the energy heating up the air then sending it outside while running a heating system as well.

Sky installers will not now go up to chimney height. On H & S grounds. An independent installer may be prepared to do it.

pow wow

djimi wrote: »

I think that would be a pretty naive assumption to make in fairness

Naive on behalf of the landlord, yes, absolutely. Landlords are usually incredibly specific in their advertising of their properties (no pets, no smokers, no rent allowance etc.) so if the landlord neglected to say anything about pets and I had a kitty then I would take it that that was fine with them. If the tenants had been looking for a while they would also have seen these kind of exclusions and it's not unreasonable for them to think that because you didn't specifically mention having a problem with pets that it was ok to bring them.

First rentals are always a huge learning curve, and if they're decent people as you seem to think OP then the main lessons you will learn from this are valuable ones (as opposed to expensive ones). In relation to the dish, make sure it's professionaly installed. Our cable installers dug up half the block paved drive in my last place to run cables from the street to the house - my landlord was fine with it and they did a very professional job, and it saves the next tenant from worrying how they're going to get tv/internet etc.

Also, this thing about cats leaving a fragrance that never goes away is a little OTT. If there's a group of them who are hideously incontinent, never go outside or whose owners just think cat urine adds character so don't clean it up, then maybe. The odd house moggie or two on a 12 month lease, I really wouldn't be worried about. Just make sure you put it in the advert/lease next time!

djimi

pow wow wrote: »

Naive on behalf of the landlord, yes, absolutely. Landlords are usually incredibly specific in their advertising of their properties (no pets, no smokers, no rent allowance etc.) so if the landlord neglected to say anything about pets and I had a kitty then I would take it that that was fine with them. If the tenants had been looking for a while they would also have seen these kind of exclusions and it's not unreasonable for them to think that because you didn't specifically mention having a problem with pets that it was ok to bring them.

If there was a signed lease (that didnt specify anything about pets) then I might be more inclined to agree with you. However, in this case there is no signed lease, and therefore the tenant can be asked to leave for any reason in the first six months. In this instance its up to the tenant to ensure that there is no reason for the landlord to seek to terminate the tenancy. The tenants were extremely foolish/naive to just assume that pets would be okay when in a lot of tenancies they are not. If you want to rent with pets such as cats or dogs and its not specified about pets then you should always check in advance.

pow wow

djimi wrote: »

The tenants were extremely foolish/naive to just assume that pets would be okay when in a lot of tenancies they are not. If you want to rent with pets such as cats or dogs and its not specified about pets then you should always check in advance.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one then. Pets aren't ok for a lot of landlords and that's fine, and in a perfect world the perfect tenant may ask for permission. An ordinary tenant who is used to landlords being very clear about anything that will cause a problem is not being unreasonable in thinking that if the landlord didn't say they had a problem with pets...then they don't have a problem with pets.

If the OP wants to use the cat issue as a stick to beat the tenants with then that is the OP's choice.

djimi

Agree to disagree if you want, but making naive assumptions when you dont have the safety net of a fixed term lease is a dangerous game. Anyone who has tried to rent with a pet will know that it is far from the norm for pets to be allowed in a tenancy.

Marcusm

djimi wrote: »

Agree to disagree if you want, but making naive assumptions when you dont have the safety net of a fixed term lease is a dangerous game. Anyone who has tried to rent with a pet will know that it is far from the norm for pets to be allowed in a tenancy.

In the real world, a tenant with an unwritten lease has whatever security of tenure he desires as, without resorting to the heavy mob, the landlord would not be able to secure an order for eviction within a reasonable period. As regards pets, I think you are absolutely correct in an urban context or in relation to a flat/apartment. For rural houses, unless pets are excluded I'd think that they would be commonly accepted - they'd also be less likely allowed indoors than in an urban context, ie for walking not curling up on the couch.

djimi

Marcusm wrote: »

In the real world, a tenant with an unwritten lease has whatever security of tenure he desires as, without resorting to the heavy mob, the landlord would not be able to secure an order for eviction within a reasonable period.

I know what can happen in reality, but that doesnt change the legal position. It might be a slow process if you get a tenant who wants to dig their heals in, but at some point after the legal 28 days notice of termination has been issued they will be vacating the property whether they like it or not, as opposed to where a fixed term lease is in place where they could be there for four years before the landlord could even issue a notice of termination for a matter like this. Thats not security, thats just buying themselves more time.

SpaceTime

I think if you're going to let the house you should probably look into installing satellite cabling to your own spec.

Sky installers generally do the quickest installation possible and it can be a bit ugly.

Drilling window frames is generally not a good idea with modern PVC or aluminium frames.

However, most people you rent to will want satellite television and if it's in a rural area external antennae for fixed wireless broadband may be needed too.

I think perhaps the best approach is to work with them to install them properly.
They're regarded as essential services by most people these days.

Rosier

(Almost) speechless at some of the posts... a cat litter tray means the cats are house trained and most of us do not exile a cat outside. Cats are clean critters. and there are anyways products that remove smells if they occur.

Why no holes in PVC frames eludes me; any modern house has these frames. I also got permission for a cat flap in a PVC door here.

This all seems typical first time amateur landlord stuff

Yes in some cases here the tenant is in the wrong but that does not justify eviction. They should have a lease to protect THEM from this.

I have always ensured that pets are allowed and always made sure the LL knows what I have; in a rural setting he needed to be sure my dogs are under my control as he has stock here and I needed to make sure his fences were in good condition to protect my dogs. My cats live in and out; they keep the place rodent free.

And any work needed is with his permission; I now do painting etc myself as he will supply materials.

This is a 50-50 situation. It really is. The ll laid himself open and has no one to blame but himself.

As any legal tenancy expect will hopefully agree.

Over and out from me on this thread! Unbelievable really.

djimi

Rosier wrote: »

Yes in some cases here the tenant is in the wrong but that does not justify eviction. They should have a lease to protect THEM from this.

The problem here is that the tenant doesnt have a lease to protect them (as much their fault as the landlords; the tenant should know the potential pitfalls of renting without a fixed term lease). You can argue that it is unfair to terminate the tenancy over a matter such as cats (and perhaps you would be right), but ultimately fair or not doesnt come into it, as the landlord is fully entitled to terminate the tenancy for any reason in the first six months, and they only need give 28 days written notice. If they deem the issue of the cats to be sufficient to end the tenancy then that is their legal right.

For what its worth, while I agree with you that cats are generally grand and wont usually cause too much of an issue, I have also seen situations where people keeping housecats has left the property in an absolute state, and given that a landlord has no idea what kind of pet owner their tenant is, I can fully understand why they wouldnt want to take the chance.

Tokyo

Marcusm wrote: »

In the real world, a tenant with an unwritten lease has whatever security of tenure he desires as, without resorting to the heavy mob, the landlord would not be able to secure an order for eviction within a reasonable period. As regards pets, I think you are absolutely correct in an urban context or in relation to a flat/apartment. For rural houses, unless pets are excluded I'd think that they would be commonly accepted - they'd also be less likely allowed indoors than in an urban context, ie for walking not curling up on the couch.

I don't think that would be an issue as I have taken the time to speak to a few people who know the family in question, including a previous landlord and nobody has anything really bad to say about them. I also live in the kind of village where your life would be a living hell trying to shop for groceries, have a pint in the pub, etc if you screwed over someone from the area - that's nothing of my doing, it's just the way some country areas are.

Regarding the issue of pets, the house itself is in the middle of a village, not a country cottage on an acre of land, so quite honestly, having been a tenant myself for nearly 20 years, I'd never make the assumption that I could just move in with pets without informing the landlord; it's one of those questions that any tenant in his right mind would ask before moving into a new place. However, I think that I'm being extremely fair in conceding the point as my parents, in their own naivety, didn't specifically say "no pets" regardless of whether it was asked or not. I've already spoken to the tenant about this and he says that the cats will be staying outside, that they just have them indoors for a day or two to get used to the new area, so I understand that. Whether they continue to keep them indoors we shall see.

SpaceTime wrote: »

However, most people you rent to will want satellite television and if it's in a rural area external antennae for fixed wireless broadband may be needed too.

I think perhaps the best approach is to work with them to install them properly.
They're regarded as essential services by most people these days.

As I've said, I have no issue with them getting broadband, cable, sky, phone line, direct line to the Lord Jesus or whatever service they see fit while they live there. As the owner I hope that they enjoy living there and are able to find the services that they need. However, as the owner I want to be consulted before cables are run through window frames rather than taking a more difficult but repairable route, or mounting a satellite dish on the front facade of the house when it could be quite easily mounted on the chimney, or on the back like every other house on the street.

pow wow

djimi wrote: »

Agree to disagree if you want, but making naive assumptions when you dont have the safety net of a fixed term lease is a dangerous game. Anyone who has tried to rent with a pet will know that it is far from the norm for pets to be allowed in a tenancy.

I'm not disputing the power the landlord holds in the OP's situation and that the tenants are in a precarious position in terms of what the landlord can do in the absence of a fixed term lease. So, I'm not disagreeing with you there.

At the same time the tenants may not be as versed as yourself in the legalities and realities of renting - they have had a reasonably informal arrangement to date with the OP's parents which has suited both parties, they have an amicable relationship, and no-one said that a cat or two would be a problem. Don't assume others meet the same standard as you do in terms of what information you would or would not volunteer when viewing a property.

My point to the OP is to make your requirements crystal clear to potential tenants the next time around. The family in situ aren't the only people who would think having a pet is fine if the landlord didn't say it wasn't! If the OP wants to keep the home pet-free, ensure it forms part of the negotiation AND written lease (and there's nothing to say the OP would have specified a position in relation to pets in a lease). If the cat issue had come to light after the lease had been signed, the landlord would find himself in an equally precarious position in relation to the practicalities of removing the tenants.

dumbyearbook

Ask them to leave they are going to be a nightmare.

Tokyo

Rosier wrote: »

(Almost) speechless at some of the posts... a cat litter tray means the cats are house trained and most of us do not exile a cat outside. Cats are clean critters. and there are anyways products that remove smells if they occur.

There aren't products that can get the smell of catpiss out of floor underlay though, *if* they aren't well trained animals and do decide to mark their territory. I'm not an animal hater - that's just fact.

And judging by your below comment, you ASKED any landlord before bringing animals into the home. I didn't say that I would have excluded the tenants on these grounds, but I certainly would have liked to have considered the situation for myself before making a decision.

Why no holes in PVC frames eludes me; any modern house has these frames. I also got permission for a cat flap in a PVC door here.

Holes in the brick wall can be concreted in again easily, holes in plaster can be patched back to its original condition, holes in window frames however can't be undone other than plugging them with silicone sealant and smearing enough on to seal it up. Not to mention that the cable can be run in under the roof and down to the existing TV point - it just means more work for the installer. And I think that you had an extremely laid back landlord if he allowed you to install a catflap in a PVC door - I certainly wouldn't unless you'd planned to replace the door before you moved on, and would ask for additional security to cover that.

This all seems typical first time amateur landlord stuff

Just dealing with what was dropped in my lap. If I had my way there would be an iron clad contract with an explicit list of do's and don't's, and have certainly been handed the **** end of the stick, but that's another story....

Yes in some cases here the tenant is in the wrong but that does not justify eviction. They should have a lease to protect THEM from this.

I don't plan on chucking them out onto the street over this, although friends of mine that also let property have told me that I should let them know that this is an option if they take it upon themselves to do whatever they want without informing me first. For me right now, I just don't like the precedent that its setting, and wonder am I going to pass the house some evening and see "oh look, they installed bay windows!!" - I'm being sarcastic but you get the point.

The family in question aren't first time renters, they have rented in the city and out in the countryside, so these aren't the "Oh-I-didn't-realise-I-had-to-ask-first" naive types. My opinion for what it's worth is that they're going down the path of better to beg forgiveness than ask permission, and I'm not happy with that. And when I rented property it's something that I wouldn't have done myself, nor any other renter that I know of.

Ultimately I know how any landlord of mine would have handled it if I were doing the same things on his property, but I felt that it was a good idea to get some other viewpoints here on the forums too, from both sides of the equation.

tomdempsey200

Marcusm wrote: »

Personally, I'd prefer a dish to be chimney mounted and without any drilling through the exteriror surface (whether brick or render) but using the strapping method. Running the cables through the roof space (alongside existing aerial cables?) would also be more sensible.
/QUOTE]

for the record.....dishes should not be chimney mounted

it's not recommended

SpaceTime

Small dishes most certainly can be mounted on a chimney. The wind load is less that an aerial especially with perforated mesh dishes like sky use.

You can do a lot to disguise dishes too with a bit of thought and care.

Sky won't install them there for health and safety and mostly for time reasons.

They want to have the dish as low and close to the TV as they can get away with to reduce installation costs.

An independent installer can do a lot more.
Sky installers are under big pressure to complete jobs as quickly and cheaply as possible.

The_Conductor

SpaceTime wrote: »

Sky won't install them there for health and safety and mostly for time reasons.

They want to have the dish as low and close to the TV as they can get away with to reduce installation costs.

An independent installer can do a lot more

Sky won't normally install dishes on chimneys- because they used do in the past- but as its the most exposed part of the house, many of them were getting offset and they required a ridiculous number of return visits to realign them. On top of this- some dishes caused structural issues with chimneys. All-in-all, its not a good idea to put them on a chimney.

Tokyo

The_Conductor wrote: »

Sky won't normally install dishes on chimneys- because they used do in the past- but as its the most exposed part of the house, many of them were getting offset and they required a ridiculous number of return visits to realign them. On top of this- some dishes caused structural issues with chimneys. All-in-all, its not a good idea to put them on a chimney.

It's a moot point in this case - the orientation of the house means that the line of sight from the back is just as good as from the front. It's just a longer run of cable.

The_Conductor

mike_ie wrote: »

It's a moot point in this case - the orientation of the house means that the line of sight from the back is just as good as from the front. It's just a longer run of cable.

If you're using good quality cable- anything up to 25m or so, should be perfectly fine. If its not so good- the sat inline boosters work perfectly fine.

Tokyo

The_Conductor wrote: »

If you're using good quality cable- anything up to 25m or so, should be perfectly fine. If its not so good- the sat inline boosters work perfectly fine.

Yep, I know. And had they asked, I've already run cable up inside the walls to the attic, and a second empty cable duct alongside it - there's a coil of co-ax sitting up there ready to be tapped into. Not going to tell them that until we've had a chat about do's and don't's first though...

foggy_lad

Is it too late for you to present them with a lease to sign with all the proper conditions etc? Basically you can ask them to leave at the moment without reason which would only encourage them to sign the lease.

athtrasna

You have two choice now, lay down the law in a lease (stating no pets and no alterations to the property without written consent), or wait and have these tenants walk all over you and leave your property in a state. Read the posts on here, plenty of horror stories. They are already taking liberties, God only know what they'll do when they get the security that Part IV brings.

Tokyo

athtrasna wrote: »

You have two choice now, lay down the law in a lease (stating no pets and no alterations to the property without written consent), or wait and have these tenants walk all over you and leave your property in a state. Read the posts on here, plenty of horror stories. They are already taking liberties, God only know what they'll do when they get the security that Part IV brings.

That's pretty much my line of thinking, to draw up a written lease with the do's and don't's on the property, and present it to them seeing as they appear to be taking a few liberties too many IMHO, and I'm glad to see that I have the backing of so many people here - i.e. I'm not being a ****ty overbearing landlord.

Part 4 isn't such a problem, as it doesn't apply in the event that I or a family member move into the property, which was always my intention once I decided to settle down and that was made that clear to the tenants from the get go.

foggy_lad

mike_ie wrote: »

That's pretty much my line of thinking, to draw up a written lease with the do's and don't's on the property, and present it to them seeing as they appear to be taking a few liberties too many IMHO, and I'm glad to see that I have the backing of so many people here - i.e. I'm not being a ****ty overbearing landlord.

Part 4 isn't such a problem, as it doesn't apply in the event that I or a family member move into the property, which was always my intention once I decided to settle down and that was made that clear to the tenants from the get go.

At the end of the day you own the property not the tenants!

You need and are entitled to protect your property as any other home/property owner would.

ABajaninCork

JOSman wrote: »

Be careful with the cats. They can leave a smell that will never leave. Personally, I wouldn't have cats in my house.

To each their own.

I have to pick you up here! I had three cats in total (in my own property in London). You would have to see the cats to know I had them. Yes, I had a tray for them which they used night times and wet days, but it was regularly cleared and regularly disinfected with bleach and Jeyes Fluid.

And NO. There was never a smell in my house. If you clean and disinfect trays, and keep the house clean in general, then there should be no smell and no issue. The only problem I had was trying to stop the little darlings shredding the house!

djimi

ABajaninCork wrote: »

I have to pick you up here! I had three cats in total (in my own property in London). You would have to see the cats to know I had them. Yes, I had a tray for them which they used night times and wet days, but it was regularly cleared and regularly disinfected with bleach and Jeyes Fluid.

And NO. There was never a smell in my house. If you clean and disinfect trays, and keep the house clean in general, then there should be no smell and no issue. The only problem I had was trying to stop the little darlings shredding the house!

Unfortunately not every cat owner is like you. I know of one house that I literally cannot set foot in because it has been destroyed by cats. Every piece of furniture is basically fit for the skip and the place stinks. As a landlord it is this house that would put me off allowing pets, no matter how many stories like yours I heard.

ABajaninCork

djimi wrote: »

Unfortunately not every cat owner is like you. I know of one house that I literally cannot set foot in because it has been destroyed by cats. Every piece of furniture is basically fit for the skip and the place stinks. As a landlord it is this house that would put me off allowing pets, no matter how many stories like yours I heard.

True. I myself have been in houses where I've literally gagged with the smell of pets. Unwashed dogs, and cat trays not cleaned. And I've just turned tail and left. There's no need for it!

We're renting and have a dog. LL did give permission, and we're very careful that the dog and the house are kept super clean (I'm a bit of a clean freak anyway), as the property is not ours. There has been no damage done with the dog, but we'd check and rectify anyway before we left in the event we had to move.

If I were a LL, I would rent to people with pets, but would ask for at least two months rent (or even ten weeks) rent upfront as a pet deposit. And I would make it very clear any damage would have to be rectified to my satisfaction BEFORE I even thought about releasing the deposit.

Might that be the way to go, OP? Or is it too late??

the_syco

mike_ie wrote: »

I don't plan on chucking them out onto the street over this, although friends of mine that also let property have told me that I should let them know that this is an option if they take it upon themselves to do whatever they want without informing me first. For me right now, I just don't like the precedent that its setting, and wonder am I going to pass the house some evening and see "oh look, they installed bay windows!!" - I'm being sarcastic but you get the point.

The family in question aren't first time renters, they have rented in the city and out in the countryside, so these aren't the "Oh-I-didn't-realise-I-had-to-ask-first" naive types. My opinion for what it's worth is that they're going down the path of better to beg forgiveness than ask permission, and I'm not happy with that. And when I rented property it's something that I wouldn't have done myself, nor any other renter that I know of.

The first bolded bit; they're taking advantage - there's no other way to put it!

The second bolded bit; the proof that they're taking advantage.

Write a strict lease, as I think these are trouble, esp if they're like this a week into their stay!

Brewie

mike_ie wrote: »

Backstory - I own a property in the West of Ireland, but as I spent most of my time abroad, I've recently rented it out to a family here. My parents invested quite a bit of money in renovations even though it's mine, and as a result we agreed that they would claim whatever rent is generated by the property until I return permanently, which is more than fine with me,

I'm presuming it is a property with your name on the deeds, you might have to be careful with tax on the revenue generated from the property's rental.

Would it be recognised as your rental income or your parents.

The_Conductor

Brewie wrote: »

I'm presuming it is a property with your name on the deeds, you might have to be careful with tax on the revenue generated from the property's rental.

Would it be recognised as your rental income or your parents.

Owner pays tax on the rental income- less allowable deductions.
Renovations are not (in general) allowable deductions.
OP's parents- if they are receiving the rent in lieu of the OP who is abroad- should be setup as 'agents' to receive the rent, and be normalising the tax on it.

This is however offtopic to the discussion currently under way.

LooksLikeRain

A lease is always the fairest way to go for all parties. It may all seem straight forward now but when they come to move out both parties will probabaly have forgotten most of what was agreed upon.
You need to ensure that the lease is mentioned in the PRTB registration as otherwise it will be not be enforcable on your behalf, you have thirty days from the commenment of the tanacy to register the tenacy with the PRTB so you should be ok.
It may appear like big demands now but once they have settled in you will hopefully have a happy rent paying tenant.

Tokyo

Time for an update.

Paid a visit to the house today, and installed a splashback for the cooker as requested on Saturday. Half days work of tiling, but it saves me trying to clean soaked in grease from the walls later, and it's a reasonable request from the tenants.

Spoke to the husband this evening regarding satellite dish, and altering the structure in general, drilling holes in window frames, walls, etc. and that these things all need to be run by me first. To the mans credit, he did apologise for not going about it the right way by running it by me first and assured me that it wouldn't happen again. He also invited me to call in tomorrow then Sky is being installed, and tell the installer myself where to put the dish and run cables, as it's not something he's familiar with himself, and would have just let the installer do whatever he wanted to. He also asked me all the right questions regarding hanging pictures etc once they have moved in properly, which is somewhat reassuring. Cats will also be living outdoors in the next few days, once they've become acclimatised to their new location.

ABajaninCork

I'm glad you got it all sorted in the end, OP. Did you ask about a pet deposit?

Tokyo

ABajaninCork wrote: »

I'm glad you got it all sorted in the end, OP. Did you ask about a pet deposit?

I wouldn't say that it is sorted per se, but now nobody is in doubt as to whats allowed and whats not, so we shall have to see. I'm also drawing this all up in contract form, which he will be signing. I will say that no alarm bells are going off in my head though, and I got the feeling yesterday that he realised that he'd pushed his luck way too far, so that's good at least.

I didn't ask for a pet deposit, as I feel that my parents were a little remiss in not explicitly banning pets, but any damage to the property by them will be repaired in full, and they will be kept outside in the next couple of days, something that I'll know to be true or not pretty quickly.

djimi

Make sure that the pet situation is clarified in the lease, and arrange for an inspection of the property after say three months to check that it is being adhered to. Something in my head says not to be too quick to believe them when they say that the cats will be going outside...

ABajaninCork

I agree. Unless your tenants are renting a smallholding or a farm, I don't believe the cats will be kept outdoors all the time. I'd be calling round for an inspection every three months or so.