Can eircom block other providers using their line?

BillJ

Recently moved apartment that is wired for sky tv and eircom broadband. Wanted to get sky tv and broadband as part of a bundle. It says you need eircom connection so happy days.

Rang sky and they come out and they say Eircom has disconnected the line so that only eircom can be received through the line? is this possible or does it even make sense?

phog

BillJ wrote: »

Recently moved apartment that is wired for sky tv and eircom broadband. Wanted to get sky tv and broadband as part of a bundle. It says you need eircom connection so happy days.

Rang sky and they come out and they say Eircom has disconnected the line so that only eircom can be received through the line? is this possible or does it even make sense?

Are you getting Sky via a dish?

There was a time Sky insisted that your Sky box had to be connected to a landline, is that what they want you to do here?

BillJ

The tv is through a shared dish with the apartment block and there is no issue with the tv.

It's the internet connection is the problem, they use eircom lines but this one has been blocked or disconnected by eircom or something. I didnt think eircom did that.

ED E

They'll take over a line if its in place, but maybe they wont take it if the line was dropped completely at the exchange.

If you connect a phone do you get a dial tone?

BillJ

Don't have a phone to check the dial tone unfortunately.

If the line was dropped completely at the exchange does that mean eircom are our only option?

phog

BillJ wrote: »

The tv is through a shared dish with the apartment block and there is no issue with the tv.

It's the internet connection is the problem, they use eircom lines but this one has been blocked or disconnected by eircom or something. I didnt think eircom did that.

The lines are owned by Eircom. Is the line a working line it a line that once worked but now ceased by you or previous renter.

If it's ceased then any operator can request eircom to connect it.

I don't know if Sky order lines as well as providing broadband or have you to order the line then request the broadband on the line then.

dub45

As I understand it there was a new procedure introduced some time ago whereby you order your line through the ISP that you want to go with.
Some ISPs do not seem to either understand this or don't want the bother.
If you order through Eircom you will be in a contract with them. I am sure a quick call to Comreg should clarify the procedure.

Yawns

Order through Sky and get them to activate the line. If you get someone in sky who hasn't a clue they will tell you to have Eircom activate the line. DO NOT DO THIS. This ties you into a 12 month contract. Eircom will tell you only they can activate the line and you must take a 12 month contract with them. This is untrue, but they still insist on it being true.

3 - 4 years ago I took out services with Vodafone. Didn't bother getting in touch with Eircom in anyway, shape or form. All was good. Had it disconnected after 2 years as I was away a lot and didn't use it. Came back a few months ago and re-activated it. Had the usual above from Sky telling me to go to Eircom and Eircom saying they had a new policy and you must take it through them. I just insisted Sky go ahead with it and it all worked fine without me being tied to any contract with Eircom.

bealtine

Yawns wrote: »

Order through Sky and get them to activate the line. If you get someone in sky who hasn't a clue they will tell you to have Eircom activate the line. DO NOT DO THIS. This ties you into a 12 month contract. Eircom will tell you only they can activate the line and you must take a 12 month contract with them. This is untrue, but they still insist on it being true.

Sky won't do the activation...it says so on their website. Comreg don't give a proverbial about it either

phog

Yawns wrote: »

Order through Sky and get them to activate the line. If you get someone in sky who hasn't a clue they will tell you to have Eircom activate the line. DO NOT DO THIS.

As far as I know if Sky is using the eircom network to deliver their broadband to your premises then only eircom can activate the line, Sky might be able to order the activation on your behalf but only eircom can activate it.

Edit to clarify - all your dealings should be with Sky if that's what you want. For the life of me I don't know why Sky are asking their customers to order from eircom.

Yawns

yup just to clarify. After a year or so of no active line in my place, after a few phone calls I ended up in the normal situation of Sky doing all the work and requesting Eircom to activate my line. Having Sky do the request, I was not tied into a 12 month contract with Eircom for line rental. It's madness that they can lie about customers needing to do this when if they sign up to another provider, the customer pays that provider a line rental charge.

The problem some people are having phog is that they are being told that they must activate their own line with Eircom before another ISP can provide them with service. It doesn't help that Eircom also insist that this is the case and that when you activate it, you are stuck with a 12 month contract for line rental.

So if you have Eircom activate, you pay line rental for 12 months. Then you decide you want bb so you ring sky or vodafone. You will need to pay them for the bb service and a line rental fee.

Yawns

bealtine wrote: »

Sky won't do the activation...it says so on their website. Comreg don't give a proverbial about it either

That's correct. Sky can request activation of your line via Eircom tho. This negates you as the customer being tied into a 12 month contract for line rental. Try ringing Eircom and asking can you have another ISP do this for you.

phog

Yawns wrote: »

yup just to clarify. After a year or so of no active line in my place, after a few phone calls I ended up in the normal situation of Sky doing all the work and requesting Eircom to activate my line. Having Sky do the request, I was not tied into a 12 month contract with Eircom for line rental. It's madness that they can lie about customers needing to do this when if they sign up to another provider, the customer pays that provider a line rental charge.

The problem some people are having phog is that they are being told that they must activate their own line with Eircom before another ISP can provide them with service. It doesn't help that Eircom also insist that this is the case and that when you activate it, you are stuck with a 12 month contract for line rental.

So if you have Eircom activate, you pay line rental for 12 months. Then you decide you want bb so you ring sky or vodafone. You will need to pay them for the bb service and a line rental fee.

If the ISP don't know that they can order the line from eircom that's their problem and not really eircom's, all of this sort of stuff is agreed with Comreg and with the various providers.

If an individual orders the activation from eircom then they're eircom's customers.

If an ISP orders the activation from eircom the ISP is eircom's customer and not the householder/user.

Yawns

I am aware of that phog, but Eircom are telling people that other ISPs cannot order the activation of a line through them. According to Eircom, you must take out a line rental contract with them for 12 months BEFORE you can sign up with another ISP.

phog

Yawns wrote: »

I am aware of that phog, but Eircom are telling people that other ISPs cannot order the activation of a line through them. According to Eircom, you must take out a line rental contract with them for 12 months BEFORE you can sign up with another ISP.

In the mean that simply isn't true. I'm not saying it doesn't happen but equally I doubt it's as widespread as you claim. The other operators would be down on them like a ton of bricks if what you claim happened with any frequency.

They may not be telling the caller that they can order from elsewhere but that's another matter.

dub45

phog wrote: »

In the mean that simply isn't true. I'm not saying it doesn't happen but equally I doubt it's as widespread as you claim. The other operators would be down on them like a ton of bricks if what you claim happened with any frequency.

They may not be telling the caller that they can order from elsewhere but that's another matter.

There seems to have been a lot of confusion around the introduction of the new arrangements and there certainly have been quite a few posts here stating that isps were refusing to take orders for new lines and referring people to Eircom. Again iirc for example Magnet's Rory had to get involved as Magnet staff were not aware of the new arrangements.

BillJ

Thanks for all the replies guys. I am going to get onto sky this week and persist to see if they will activate the line. Will report back if I have any success.

SpaceTime

I find this a bit bizarre too as I had similar experiences with Sky and gave up and went with another ISP.

Basically eircom is theoretically split in two: Eircom Retail and Eircom Wholesale.

*ALL* telephone and DSL providers should be able to request eircom Wholesale activates a line for them, even if one has never been installed at the premises.
For whatever reason, Sky is not doing this.

I had no issue whatsoever getting Vodafone to do this for me.

You can't call eircom retail and ask them to activate a line and then move it to another retail provider like Sky. Eircom Retail will lock you into a 12-month contract if you do and you won't be able to move for that period. They're just a retail provider, much like Sky is. They've no longer got any special arrangement where by they have some kind of extra access to the eircom wholesale network, which is supposed to be open to all providers on an equal basis.

Sky should be able to complete the order entirely without any need to refer to eircom at all.

If you can get your hands on a phone, plug it into the socket and check for a dial tone.
If there is a dial tone, dial 199 000 and it will read back the number assigned by the exchange to the line. This is a free, automated service.
Give that to Sky, it might help.
(It will call the number out without the leading zero. So, 021 99X XXXX will be read out as 21 99X XXXX)

If you pick up the phone and wait a few seconds, or try to dial anything else you will get a recording telling you "If you wish to activate service on this line, please contact your PREFERRED TELECOMMUNICATIONS PROVIDER"

...

If there's no dial tone they should be able to activate the line just with your full address.

I don't know why Sky's confused about this. I've read loads of people having the same issue.

I think in the UK, customers may still have to order the line from BT first. That's not the case in Ireland. I've also seen threads where Sky customer service have given people service codes to dial that were for BT lines in the UK and didn't do anything here or may have even activated incorrect services.

Perhaps sales / customer service staff are just confusing the UK and Irish markets? I don't honestly know what's going on but it's not very sensible.

It's pretty stupid of them to be referring customers to eircom retail (their direct competitor) where they're going to be sold a product and lost to Sky.

In the Irish setup, all providers have equal access to the network so anyone can set you up. Eircom Retail, Vodafone, UTV, Digiweb, Sky (if they knew how to work it), and anyone else.

In almost all cases, a minimum contract or activation fee will apply if no line's active.

If the providers are unaware of this, I don't really know what they're doing in the telecommunications market as it's pretty fundamental to their business model! It would be like a supermarket not being aware of the price of milk or something.

Yawns

phog wrote: »

In the mean that simply isn't true. I'm not saying it doesn't happen but equally I doubt it's as widespread as you claim. The other operators would be down on them like a ton of bricks if what you claim happened with any frequency.

They may not be telling the caller that they can order from elsewhere but that's another matter.

Yet another person who is told that Eircom alone have to re-activate the line and another ISP cannot.

http://www.boards.ie/ttfthread/2057056859

He has other issues aswell but the activation line sticks out. So many of these posts pop up an awful lot. Imagine the amount of people who got the same spiel but don't post about it online.

SpaceTime

Well if they want to donate sales to eircom retail having fought for years to get a fully open market, that's pretty dumb!

They're literally turning away new business!

Someone needs to email Sky marketing!

Yawns

It's not just Sky, but they have a huge problem with it. It's also more concerning that at the very least Eircom are not divulging that other ISP's can sign them up. In some cases, Eircom are saying that only they can organise the activation and that a customer must take it out with them only.

SpaceTime

The only explanation I could possibly think of is that Sky and a few others don't want the business because a line setup fee has to be paid by the company taking the order. Perhaps they're cherry-picking and only want 'switchers' ?

Normally most ISPs (including eircom retail) will lock you into a contract for X months to cover those setup charges.
Installing a completely new line usually comes with a fee too, so that'll normally be charged to you up front. Activating one that's already in place is much cheaper as there are no engineering works to be carried out.

I can't see why Sky won't just pass on that charge if the line's not setup.

Sky are not obliged to take all orders but if they're just turning them down because call centre staff have wrong information or sales systems aren't setup correctly it would be pretty silly of them.

Eircom on the other hand is obliged to take all orders as it has a universal service obligation.

Eircom Retail are just a retail provider. They've nothing to do with Eircom Whoelsale anymore. So, ringing them up and asking them about connecting you so you can use Sky Broadband is a bit like ringing up Sky to ask them about UPC. They're not going to tell you anything.

There's no question of eircom not divulging anything to other ISPs. ComReg makes how this whole process works very clear and eircom wholesale have tons of information about it on their websites and an API available that allows other companies to plug into Eircom Wholesale in pretty much the same way as Eircom Retail does.

So, when you order a product from Vodafone, Sky, UTV or anyone else, they should be able to order it without any issue whatsoever.

They should simply be able to key in your details into their sales system and it goes back through an API to eircom wholesale who process the order in exactly the same way as if it came from Eircom Retail.

There's a whole load of rules in place ensuring eircom Wholesale does not discriminate against other providers and treats Eircom Retail exactly the same way as it treats Sky or anyone else.

ED E

They're called RAPs(Regulated Access Products) and its super strict. Eircom retail staff can get in major trouble for just chatting with somebody in wholesale about something thats confidential to wholesale at the time. And vice versa.


This sounds very much like sky not wanting to pay the line provisioning fee, theyd rather wait and grab current eircom customers further down the line.

SpaceTime

I think ComReg should require other operators to be quite clear to customers as to why they're turning them down if that is the case.

I'm no fan of eircom, but it's unfair of other ISPs agents to blame them on something that's nothing to do with them.

It's creating customer relations issues for eircom that have nothing to do with them at all.

I've ordered lines from Vodafone without any problem at all. So, it's not every ISP that's doing this it's just certain companies.

cannibalix

phog wrote: »

In the mean that simply isn't true. I'm not saying it doesn't happen but equally I doubt it's as widespread as you claim. The other operators would be down on them like a ton of bricks if what you claim happened with any frequency.

They may not be telling the caller that they can order from elsewhere but that's another matter.

Well, this is what they told me on live chat an hour ago:

Niall: Welcome to the eircom-sales webchat, my name is Niall how can I help you today?
XXX: Hi Niall,
XXX: I was an eircom customer previously but cancelled my account. I'm currently deciding between eircom and sky for broadband/phone packages
XXX: a couple of qustions:
Niall: Great XXX no problem at all and how can i help?
XXX: 1. when you advertise free national calls in your phone packages, does that include calls to Northern ireland?
Niall: No XXX all of our calls are only to the ROI.
XXX: 2. if i choose sky, do they take care of reactivating the phone line, line rental etc?
XXX: is 1. a change to previous packages? i seem to recall at some point that national calls included NI?
Niall: Only eircom can reactivate lines and we only do this if a customer takes a plan with us.
Niall: You can call the North free if they are 070 number no others.
XXX: so, not 048?
Niall: My apologies yes you can also call 048 free.
XXX: if i dial 004428 instead of 048 is it still charged as local rate?
Niall: You have to drop the first 0 to not be charged.
XXX: and on 2., just to clarify, if i wanted to take a sky broadband package, are you saying that i would firstly have to take an eircom subscription for 12 months first?
Niall: Yes as they cannot activate lines.
XXX: and you don't provide line activation only?
XXX: NO we cannot.
XXX: so, in this country ADSL broadband is ONLY available to current eircom customers?
Niall: Yes this is correct.
XXX: now i remember why i left eircom. thanks for your assistance.
Niall: No problem, thanks for chatting!

SpaceTime

That's weird. I've had Vodafone activate lines for me without any issues at all!

lawred2

I've had sky tell me that they will not install a new line that eircom are the only company that can do that. So to get sky broadband I have to enter an 18 month contract with eircom first.

Sound right?

dub45

Read some of the posts above and you will quickly see this is not correct. In particular have a look at SpaceTime's posts of 8/10/2013 and 9/10/2013.