Herman Tortoise not eating

Chris Arch

Hi,

We bought 2 Herman Tortoise on Tuesday. We were told that they were 8 months but it is said on the certificate that they hatched in 2010, so they are likely to be 3 years rather than 8 months. We were also told that they were born in the UK, but on the certificate it is said that they were imported from Macedonia. The document is from May 2013, so I guess that this is the date of import...

Whatever, we are happy with them they are cute... But we have a problem, since they arrived Tuesday evening they do not eat.

I think that we have a good set up about 30degC under the basking lamp and about 22deg in the cooler part of the enclosure.

One of them is very active, trying to get out (it is a 1.2mx0.6m enclosure) the other one is more sleepy, but there may have been an alternate between the one active and the one sleepy seen yesterday... I am not sure.

The fact is that they do not eat. We tried lettuce the first day and they did not eat it. The second day we tried Rocket leaves with some tortoise shop food from where we bought them, but they did not touch it. The third day I added coriander in a small pot and they did not touch it. Only this morning, I added rose petals (insecticide free) and one of the tortoise hate one of the petal so far...

The shop told us to bring them back if they did not eat by the weekend. Do you have any tip to stimulate them eating? Are they definitely sick? Shall I wait for Monday before bringing them back?

Duvetdays

Our tortoise hibernates so can't comment on tempature with lamps etc. But have you tried sitting them in a little drop of water to get a drink and also this is when ours mostly goes to the toilet.

Eating wise ours likes bananas, apples, strawberries, lettuce, watermelon and dog food. She's extremely fussy and only eats a certain type of lettuce and apples so my advice would be to keep trying until you find something they like to eat.

The dealer doesn't seem to have been very honest with where they came from so there is a possibility that they're hiding something from you so perhaps a trip to the vet is needed next week if they're still not eating.

Oh and post a pic!

Chris Arch

Thanks for your reply Duvetdays...

I read everywhere and the dealer confirmed that fruits are not good for them... I was told only once a month, especially no bananas...

We gave them bath every 2 days for 5 minutes with warm water level just above the tale... But they do not seem to urinate, no poo neither... They do not appear to drink, but I am not sure.

Regarding, the dealer, I think they did not know. They imported them from the UK for us...

Shiminay

Sounds like we got tortoises from the same batch - mine's October 2010 and Macedonian origins too

I'm a brand new owner too, but based on my reading they don't need to eat every day but possibly were getting fed daily in the shop. I plan on putting some food out for my guy this evening to see how he gets on with it and will keep you posted.

Duvetdays

We've had ours over 20years (the vet reckons she's close to 80) we've always fed her fruit never had any problems. I suppose peoples opinions differ on what to feed them. I suggest that if you bring them to a vet pick one that has experience with them. Ours was at the vet last year she was very lethargic and not eating or pooing she turned out to be quite sick, thankfully she fully recovered. The vet that she went to is Bairbre O'Malley in Bray she's the lady on tv3's animal a&e that deals with reptiles. Perhaps a call to the vet would be a good idea and they could advise you whether to bring them in our leave it a few days.

Ours also can go days without eating particularly if she's only woken up from hibernation.

Chris Arch

We have 2 of them... It is initially for our kids (7 & 11 years old), but we supervise everything with them... I don't know why the shop told us to bring them back if they don't it... They may have a vet that they know...

I will call the shop on Sunday to see what they say. If their answer is not satisfactory I will call the vet in Bray. I am concerned to move them around as I understand that they do not like to be transported from a place to another.

Chris Arch

These are photos

Duvetdays

They're fab! They're tiny are they eastern or western Hermanns? I think the eastern grow bigger. I'm open to correction on that not 100% sure.
These little guys will be around for a very long time enjoy them!

Chris Arch

Duvetdays wrote: »

They're fab! They're tiny are they eastern or western Hermanns?

I don't know, the shop don't know neither. It is not written on their certificates. Macedonia is Eastern Europe and it is where they were born...

tallus

Chris Arch wrote: »

Hi,

We bought 2 Herman Tortoise on Tuesday. We were told that they were 8 months but it is said on the certificate that they hatched in 2010, so they are likely to be 3 years rather than 8 months. We were also told that they were born in the UK, but on the certificate it is said that they were imported from Macedonia. The document is from May 2013, so I guess that this is the date of import...

Whatever, we are happy with them they are cute... But we have a problem, since they arrived Tuesday evening they do not eat.

I think that we have a good set up about 30degC under the basking lamp and about 22deg in the cooler part of the enclosure.

One of them is very active, trying to get out (it is a 1.2mx0.6m enclosure) the other one is more sleepy, but there may have been an alternate between the one active and the one sleepy seen yesterday... I am not sure.

The fact is that they do not eat. We tried lettuce the first day and they did not eat it. The second day we tried Rocket leaves with some tortoise shop food from where we bought them, but they did not touch it. The third day I added coriander in a small pot and they did not touch it. Only this morning, I added rose petals (insecticide free) and one of the tortoise hate one of the petal so far...

Edit.monitor their weight, at least you will be able to keep track of weight loss, and also find out

The shop told us to bring them back if they did not eat by the weekend. Do you have any tip to stimulate them eating? Are they definitely sick? Shall I wait for Monday before bringing them back?

Your torts probably aren't eating because it's close to hibernation time.

Try feeding them dandelions they are probably the best source of food for tortoises. Secondly, as someone has also suggested, make sure they are getting plenty of water, I used to put mine into the sink and give them a good soaking.
They should be getting ready for hibernation and slowing down around this time of year and may have reduced appetite because of that.
You could probably do a web search and check what their weight to size ratio should be.
I'd also find out what the pet shop owner was feeding them, dandelions are by far the best food source, especially the flowers. Most lettuce is nutritionally deficient so I wouldn't even bother feeding it.
I think a good rule when feeding a tortoise is this: will my tortoise encounter this food in the wild, and if the answer is no, then do not feed it to the tortoise.

Chris Arch

Thanks for your advice...

They started slowly eating since Friday, roses petals and dandelions... I am still to check their weight to size ratio, but we are relieved that they started eating. The shop kept them for 1 day only as they were imported from the UK, so they have not fed them.

tallus

Chris Arch wrote: »

Thanks for your advice...

They started slowly eating since Friday, roses petals and dandelions... I am still to check their weight to size ratio, but we are relieved that they started eating. The shop kept them for 1 day only as they were imported from the UK, so they have not fed them.

You setup looks right on and you're feeding them the correct food. At least you took the trouble to do your research before buying, so kudos.
I'd definitely be looking to hibernate them if I was you because it's part of their natural life cycle. I used one of those small refrigerators to hibernate mine . The 5c temperature is the ideal hibernation temp.
There are more knowledgable users than I on here who will steer you in the right direction if you need help.

tallus

Glad to hear they are,eating by the way :-)

Chris Arch

tallus wrote: »

You setup looks right on and you're feeding them the correct food. At least you took the trouble to do your research before buying, so kudos.
I'd definitely be looking to hibernate them if I was you because it's part of their natural life cycle. I used one of those small refrigerators to hibernate mine . The 5c temperature is the ideal hibernation temp.
There are more knowledgable users than I on here who will steer you in the right direction if you need help.

Yes we have made some researches and the answers that we found are sometimes contradicting each others... On the issue of hibernation for example it seems that it is 50% defending the necessity of it for the tortoise health and 50% defending that it is unnecessary...

We chose not to hibernate them (at least this year), first because it appears that there is a risk, second because they can be healthy without, third because we are not organised for it, and fourth because our kids don't want to keep their pets in a fridge sleeping during 3 months.

This year it will be definitely no hibernation, we have time to think about it for next year.

I am not sure if we can hibernate them one year out of two for example or if it has to be regular every year.

tallus

Chris Arch wrote: »

Yes we have made some researches and the answers that we found are sometimes contradicting each others... On the issue of hibernation for example it seems that it is 50% defending the necessity of it for the tortoise health and 50% defending that it is unnecessary...

We chose not to hibernate them (at least this year), first because it appears that there is a risk, second because they can be healthy without, third because we are not organised for it, and fourth because our kids don't want to keep their pets in a fridge sleeping during 3 months.

This year it will be definitely no hibernation, we have time to think about it for next year.

I am not sure if we hibernate them one year out of two for example or if ti has to be regular every year.

If you do it correctly, there is no risk whatsoever in hibernation. They hibernate in the wild and it does them no harm.
Secondly, hibernation slows down growth, and this is really really important. The slower the tortoises grow, the better because it promotes smooth shell growth and helps prevent deformities.
I didn't hibernate mine the first year I had them and I regretted it as one of them did start to grow faster than was good for him.
I'm not trying to tell you what to do as they are your pets, but I would strongly recommend that you hibernate them. Anyone who tells you they do not need to be hibernated is steering you in the wrong direction.
You should take a look on the tortoise trust website, it's a fantastic resource for all things related to chelonians.

Chris Arch

I am aware of this website, and there is a conversation about hibernation... One guy lives near Mexico, and his Herman Tortoise are kept outdoor and when the winter is not cold they do not hibernate as they adapt to the environment...

I am not sure enough of their health and body fat as we just got them and they just started eating, so I really think that this year we will not hibernate them... If it is really unhealthy for them not to hibernate so next year we will...

I think that this is the best for the first year, but we still have a few weeks to change our mind. My understanding is that they need to ascertain that they are healthy, then start to starve them for 2 to 3 weeks, then to store them in a ventilated box with temperature between 4 to 7 deg. Celsius ideally...

tallus

Yes you are correct in relation to hibernation procedure.
I can only tell you what I think is the right thing to do based on my experience. As far as I know they hibernate in the wild at about five months old.
Best of luck with them no matter what you decide to do.

Shiminay

Hey, Chris, how're your pair doing now?

My lad was slow to start eating, but I had some heating issues in the flat which I've resolved and whilst he was a bit fussy to start with (only Dandelion would get eaten), he's started trying other stuff now too and he's a lot more active and loves exploring his table. I wanna get a few bits of decoration he can climb all over as he seems to love getting vertical on the outside walls of the table

Chris Arch

Shiminay wrote: »

Hey, Chris, how're your pair doing now?

My lad was slow to start eating, but I had some heating issues in the flat which I've resolved and whilst he was a bit fussy to start with (only Dandelion would get eaten), he's started trying other stuff now too and he's a lot more active and loves exploring his table. I wanna get a few bits of decoration he can climb all over as he seems to love getting vertical on the outside walls of the table

Hi Shimney,

Thanks for asking... We have 2 of them. They started eating Dandelion as well as petal roses then were ok with lettuces. However, the smallest one still eat very little and rarely. He is also barely active. I think it is the male.

The female is not eating too much, but I am not sure how much they should be eating. However she eats every day and she is very active climbing on pebbles and trying to get out of the enclosure.

The male seems to try to dig himself in the ground maybe preparing for hibernation. He is eating little and rarely, so we are concerned about him. Today I am buying a scale to weight and measure them for comparison with Jackson Ratio... http://www.tortoise-protection-group.org.uk/site/171.asp

Chris Arch

I have just checked our Herman tortoises size and weight, according to the Jackson ratio they are ok.

Coolio size is 75mm for 90g weight - Jackson Ratio is 0.213
Sea Shell size is 78mm for 102g weight - Jackson Ratio is 0.215

Genghiscol

Hi guys.

http://tortoiseforum.org/index.php

Cant recommend this forum enough, loads of experts and long time keepers.

Sounds like your torts are going through a bitta brumation or seasonal slowing, kinda like hibernation but not fully. there very sensitive to the weather changes so they brumate or estivate to save energy. Mine are doing the same thing now.

Also "Duvetdays" ?? you mentioned a vet you take yours to, where and who is this ? always good to know another vet. =D

Colin

Shiminay

My lad has really gone off his food in the last while and has become very sluggish, I'm guessing it's this brumation you're mentioning Genghis. The temp in the flat has dropped about 5 degrees in the last few days and I replaced his Aspen substrate with a sand/soil mix which has made a significant impact on the temp of his table, so I'm awaiting some parts to get some ceramic IR heat going (I'm on a pretty tight budget this month, so had to resort to eBay instead of just heading down to Reptile Haven).

Chris Arch

Hi Shimnay... Our 2 tortoises have been eating well. In fact as per the Jackson Ratio they are now overweight...

If I was you I would weight the tortoise and measure it, and then assess the Jackson Ratio. It will tell you if your tortoise is OK or not. If it is underweight and not eating you may want to see a VET I presume. If it is not underweight, I guess that you should not worry, probably it is brumation... I did not see any UVB light in your setting. Do you have one?

(SORRY JUST SEEN YOUR UVB ON THE PHOTO NOW)

Shiminay

Jackson is giving me .19 which it says is "normal and safe to hibernate."

I used some tin foil to bring his temperature up as he slept last night and it seems to have done wonders for him as he was out for a brisk constitutional this morning when I was heading off to work.