expansion 2015

stanflt

visited two fantastic set ups today

dar31

Clonmel direction is it stan

May upgrade the wheels on the skate board foe that distance

darragh_haven

Does he actually have 60 units in a line? The cows must be wreaked by the time they get to the front. How many is this man milking at the moment.

jaymla627

dar31 wrote: »

Clonmel direction is it stan

May upgrade the wheels on the skate board foe that distance

A 60 unit herringbone is pure crazy, you'll need three people milking at a minimum plus cow flow will be a nightmare.
Best idea i ever seen for a high output low cost set-up was two 24 unit herringbones built side by side with the same holding yard feeding both parlours, two man operation that was milking 600 cows in around an hour and 40 mins.

dar31

jaymla627 wrote: »

A 60 unit herringbone is pure crazy, you'll need three people milking at a minimum plus cow flow will be a nightmare.
Best idea i ever seen for a high output low cost set-up was two 24 unit herringbones built side by side with the same holding yard feeding both parlours, two man operation that was milking 600 cows in around an hour and 40 mins.

Worked in the exact same set up in nz, 900 cows at the time. It eat up cows, 3 people , 2 milking and 1 fetching/washing down.
We would have over 300 milked before the last cows was locked into the collecting yard

bob charles

Believe a half what you see and a quarter what you hear

Milked out

If there was a rapid exit system put in for that parlour it would speed things up again big time i'd say, would need a fair bit of space at the front alright if there was a single chute for drafting to go thru

yellow50HX

have seen a few of those places and you have to be on yer toes. hears of a fella that kept his old 8 unit parlour for training in the heifers. The hefiers were kept seprate from the main herd for a few weeks until they got used to the parlour. when they were comign up to calving he would bring them through to be feed. heard of anotehr lad that brough everythign through the palour, he had collors on them all so only the milkign ones were milked but a seprate ration could be indiually feed to each cow and heifer

keep going

jaymla627 wrote: »

A 60 unit herringbone is pure crazy, you'll need three people milking at a minimum plus cow flow will be a nightmare.
Best idea i ever seen for a high output low cost set-up was two 24 unit herringbones built side by side with the same holding yard feeding both parlours, two man operation that was milking 600 cows in around an hour and 40 mins.

The more ithink about this idea the more I like it, dont have to spec up everything and thos size parlours can probably be bought cheap enough secondhand in nz.if you are on your own you only switch on one parlour or if something breaks down you can always finish.and dont you knowtheres bound to be a race every milking to see who is finished first

st1979

keep going wrote: »

The more ithink about this idea the more I like it, dont have to spec up everything and thos size parlours can probably be bought cheap enough secondhand in nz.if you are on your own you only switch on one parlour or if something breaks down you can always finish.and dont you knowtheres bound to be a race every milking to see who is finished first

in a 60 unit you have to wait for the first cow to walk 120-150' (depending if it is 2'2 or 2'6) 2 parlours side by side would be so much better. 1 man get sick you are still able to work 100% efficent on 1 parlour. Shorter distance for the cows to walk. If you are having trouble with a cow or heifer on one side it would not have much effect on the milking time.

kevthegaff

would a rotary not make better sense less feeders also???

yellow50HX

kevthegaff wrote: »

would a rotary not make better sense less feeders also???

fella near here has a 60 unit rotoarty milking about 300 with one fella (2 if they are very busy) 2 hrs to get them in milked back out and washed. There is also a 80unit milkign about 400 (going to 500), again 1 lad will do the lot in about 2 hrs

kevthegaff

with the headline, are ye expanding much post 2015. I started with 30 cows 5 yrs ago, im at 90 now. Post 2015 id hope to be milking 120+ one man operation with assistance at spring. I have currently shares for 80k gallons so not much investment there. Im thinking of building a 40 cubicle shed with room to double that in the future. Ill also add 4 extra units to my 12 unit parlour cheaply. What are yer plans?

6480

my plans are to maybe go from 60 to 70 but i think alot of people including myself would be alot better to try and improve everything of what we do and cut costs before jumping numbers

mf240

Would anyone consider a small herd of jersey on an out farm, milked once a day all summer.

Was thinking no frills with a basic palour and milk collected in a mobile tank behind jeep each milking and pumped into main tank at home for cooling?

Timmaay

Following on from Stans dreaming, There are about 200acres of non dairy land in 2 or 3 separate blocks adjoining my current milking platform, if I can rent them all I'll have a milking platform of over 300acres, will aim for 350cows then (if I stocked at Stans 3.75, I'd make that 450cows). Hmm might take more than 7years through, But it would allow me lotsa willywaving about how many cows I milk :P

freedominacup

Timmaay wrote: »

Following on from Stans dreaming, There are about 200acres of non dairy land in 2 or 3 separate blocks adjoining my current milking platform, if I can rent them all I'll have a milking platform of over 300acres, will aim for 350cows then (if I stocked at Stans 3.75, I'd make that 450cows). Hmm might take more than 7years through, But it would allow me lotsa willywaving about how many cows I milk :P

The thing that's going to get people expanding is the quality of replacements. You'll be putting everything in calf to dairy breeds and they won't all be worth having in most cases but you'll have to find out the expensive way whose
worth having. Replacements eat cash and at the same time generate a tax bill something for the IFA to work on in terms of a stock relief. It's govt policy to see dairy expansion afterall.

Milked out

Planning to go to 140 here, from 110, supplying around the 950k litre mark, hopefully more when things settle, all extra milk will be from the spring side on me and half a labour unit. Hope to reduce costs by using more silage less maize, with extra milk coming from grass as much as possible. Will be tight as land purchase enters the equation, renting around me not an option unfortunately, along with existing debt, but once I get the initial phase right it would allow me to grow again if opportunities present itself in to the future,

grazeaway

would ye say teh biggest obstacle to expansion would be access to suitable land next to or close to teh main block?

we were milking up to about 8 years ago, the notion of getting back into it has been rattling around in my head but as it stands the figures dotn add up for me.

home place ran about 45-50 cows, hosuing and sheds are still in place and can be easily used for dairy cows. parlour is in goo conditon but a new machine and tank would need to be bought. Slurry storage and roadways would need to be upgraded, fields are still in paddocks. Anyway it would not make sense for me to pack in the job to go milkign cows and would not be feasible to pay soemone to do teh milkings (would cost about 20k a year).

however there is land next to me that has been in longterm rent for years. had looked to take part of it a few years back but got out bid anyway reckon teh lad taking it at the mo lost a fotune over the last 2 years so i think he might bail out next year. If i can get that on a long term lease it'll add about 20 ac to the farm, and then the figures would change. I can easily add another cubile house which would take my housing to over 70.

would 70 cows be more sustainabe (ie more room for gettign in a milker). if i can to a stage where i can employ some one to do the milking and feeding calves it might just be a runner. That siad i'd be more likely to do it in 4-5 years once things settle down a bit.

Timmaay

Ha don't worry Freedom, as I said thats the dreaming/willywaving idea. Much more realistic is stock the current block to 120cows, even that's a full extra 40 ontop of our current numbers, and of the current batch of cows, I'd only want to breed from about 1/2 of them. Reseeding the rest of the farm and get it growing 12ton+ of grass/yr would be the target before any cow expansion.

jersey101

Go from 80 to 130 in 5 years with my own replacements. Farm will be stocked at 3 2 which i think i could manage. Will prob look for another farm then as im only young have plenty of ambitions

Timmaay

grazeaway wrote: »

would 70 cows be more sustainabe (ie more room for gettign in a milker). if i can to a stage where i can employ some one to do the milking and feeding calves it might just be a runner. That siad i'd be more likely to do it in 4-5 years once things settle down a bit.

Only just in my view, and you'd want 70 very good cows, that say calf down every Feb and provide you as cheaply produced milk as possible. 80 would be more comfortable if the land is good enough to be able to stock it that high?

keep going

Will expand away when opportunities arise but wont go chasing anything and definitely wont milk 2 herds.see a buddy doing 3 herds near me and I hope he is making money but I wont do it.might set up a on a bigger land base and employ someone to milk there for the spring while calving at home and would mean I would only have to go over there to milk for 6 months.but really I just want to milk one herd on the home block and not employ anyone

Farfield

I think expansion and building up a big farm infrastructure based around having to rent a lot of land is a dangerous strategy, even with long term leases.
I have recently seen a 300 cow farm near me (they own 100 acres and rent maybe 400) in deep **** now as a result of not being able to renew the lease on the rented land and none else around suitable to take its place. The previously rented land is now being used by the prior owners son himself. Where does the dairy farm go from here?? Back down to 100 cows with sheds etc for 300 built. Risky.

freedominacup

Farfield wrote: »

I think expansion and building up a big farm infrastructure based around having to rent a lot of land is a dangerous strategy, even with long term leases.
I have recently seen a 300 cow farm near me (they own 100 acres and rent maybe 400) in deep **** now as a result of not being able to renew the lease on the rented land and none else around suitable to take its place. The previously rented land is now being used by the prior owners son himself. Where does the dairy farm go from here?? Back down to 100 cows with sheds etc for 300 built. Risky.

Depends where they are. If there's plenty of tillage around it should be no real problem. Feed in, muck out. Graze as much grass as they can and supplement the shortages.

bbam

Farfield wrote: »

I think expansion and building up a big farm infrastructure based around having to rent a lot of land is a dangerous strategy, even with long term leases.
I have recently seen a 300 cow farm near me (they own 100 acres and rent maybe 400) in deep **** now as a result of not being able to renew the lease on the rented land and none else around suitable to take its place. The previously rented land is now being used by the prior owners son himself. Where does the dairy farm go from here?? Back down to 100 cows with sheds etc for 300 built. Risky.

Indeed..
Same near us.. lad has been pushing expansion for a few years but just lost 40Ha on his doorstep to another fella wanting to expand.. serious problems will ensue as there is no other land blocks available locally... I hear he's chasing a block about 20 miles away but that will be more torture than anything..
Its not just a simple deal of downsizing either... with borrowed money poured into yards, sheds and equipment a downsized herd won't make the repayments and keep bread on the table.. This particular lad could loose all if he cant get sorted..

grazeaway

Timmaay wrote: »

Only just in my view, and you'd want 70 very good cows, that say calf down every Feb and provide you as cheaply produced milk as possible. 80 would be more comfortable if the land is good enough to be able to stock it that high?

the land is good, the ol lad was running 45cows, plus replacemnts and all cavles to authunm on about 60ac of grass.

i could get 80 in alright by using a different house for cubuciles, feeding barrier would be limited to about 6 bays though which would be tight i would say.

kevthegaff

i have 210 acres around the parlour hilly but im improving it every year. i have 45 acres rented for first cut elsewhere. Im toying with the idea of milking 150 rather than 120 in 2 years, all cows in calf to HF and Angus. Buying in 25-30 replacements at 1 year old(i have a field too far away for the milkers). It would be a simple set up that i could operate by myself, rid of the work of calves past 3 weeks old. I know disease is a factor but if i had 2 dairy farmers who i know to buy replacements off. 140 calves x 180 = 25k replacements in April (25 x 800=22k) not the mention more milk, less meal, less housing. do ye think it would work?

Milked out

Any of ye have experience of contract rearing or consider it to free up land for cows going forward??. In my situation would be looking at 40 0-1's and 40 1-2's, so I guess around 30 to 35 acres of grazing if new grass, a bit more if silage would have to be cut for winter feed. Would be complicated if tb breakdown occurred, and results would have to be good to get all replacements ready to roll at 24 mths. I guess positives would be freeing up of ground for milking block and less labour and more time to focus on cows with negatives being possible disease issues (particularly if more than one client on contract rearers), Problems if relationship doesn't hold well/ dispute arises, and possibly cost. The contract would want to be fairly clear for every scenario really

grazeaway

Milked out wrote: »

Any of ye have experience of contract rearing or consider it to free up land for cows going forward??. In my situation would be looking at 40 0-1's and 40 1-2's, so I guess around 30 to 35 acres of grazing if new grass, a bit more if silage would have to be cut for winter feed. Would be complicated if tb breakdown occurred, and results would have to be good to get all replacements ready to roll at 24 mths. I guess positives would be freeing up of ground for milking block and less labour and more time to focus on cows with negatives being possible disease issues (particularly if more than one client on contract rearers), Problems if relationship doesn't hold well/ dispute arises, and possibly cost. The contract would want to be fairly clear for every scenario really

the in-laws do this on the contienent, B+B for cows as they like to say. they taught they would only have maybe 80-100 when they started out a few years ago but last summer had over 200.

teagasc texted about an open day witha fella in mitclestown doing it. could be a option alright, outsource the management and feedign of teh heifers freeing up the home place for milking stock only

awaywithyou

if any of ye lads had the opportunity to set up a second herd of cows.... good sized block of land.. say 100 acres... how many of ye would do it??


Stan,

is 3.75 stocking rate over whole farm including outfarms... or is it jus the milking block??

mahoney_j

Whilst planning on expanding myself ,luckily small outlay needed as cows sheds parlour etc are in place and quota just holding me back .im just wondering are lads looking at tax and if milking 30 40 50% more cows what will the tax burden be like.im giving serious consideration to farming as a limited company.the 12.5% tax is nice but a lot of drawbacks too.

maxxuumman

mahoney_j wrote: »

Whilst planning on expanding myself ,luckily small outlay needed as cows sheds parlour etc are in place and quota just holding me back .im just wondering are lads looking at tax and if milking 30 40 50% more cows what will the tax burden be like.im giving serious consideration to farming as a limited company.the 12.5% tax is nice but a lot of drawbacks too.

Mahoney, looked into this myself. There's a discussion on it here somewhere, there's a few boxes to tick, but there are a lot of pros to it. More than likely Im going to go that way in Jan or July( July is the end of my tax year). My accountant ( not ifac) has been discouraging farmers to go company route, but he said there are cases that it is made for. J
1. Youngish-time to take advantage of it and plan your way out of it.
2. Most of the capex is done-capex right off no good at 12.5%
3. Low drawings - leave the cash in the business taxed at 12.5 for reinvestment
4. There was a fourth but, cant think of it now!

There are disadvantages too, one big one is that a leasor, can't avail of the tax free income on long term leases if the leasee is a company. My biggest worry would be to have a sh1t hot get out plan, if something unexpected happened, ( health, death, etc)

Milked out

mahoney_j wrote: »

Whilst planning on expanding myself ,luckily small outlay needed as cows sheds parlour etc are in place and quota just holding me back .im just wondering are lads looking at tax and if milking 30 40 50% more cows what will the tax burden be like.im giving serious consideration to farming as a limited company.the 12.5% tax is nice but a lot of drawbacks too.

Will be a number of years before I have to worry about tax for the unfortunate reason as I have a fair bit of investment to do and interest will reduce tax liability further, Would look at it otherwise, everything would have to be looked at in detail too tho, including exiting and succession.

kevthegaff

brothers farm is registered as a company, he was hit with big tax bills in the past. id consider it if my profit started to get high

J DEERE

grazeaway wrote: »

the land is good, the ol lad was running 45cows, plus replacemnts and all cavles to authunm on about 60ac of grass.

i could get 80 in alright by using a different house for cubuciles, feeding barrier would be limited to about 6 bays though which would be tight i would say.

Would ya not think 45 or 50 cows would sustain ya full time? Ya could run 40 with a job with a bit of help in the spring

Mulumpy

J DEERE wrote: »

Would ya not think 45 or 50 cows would sustain ya full time? Ya could run 40 with a job with a bit of help in the spring

I'm running 60 with a job. Is manageable but can be stressful. Have good lad doing 40% of milking and part time in spring.

bob charles

would Expansion 2017/18/19 not be a better idea, a sit and wait approach and then kick on if its for you, when everyone is running in one direction, where are the smart boys going ??

J DEERE

Mulumpy wrote: »

I'm running 60 with a job. Is manageable but can be stressful. Have good lad doing 40% of milking and part time in spring.

could you make a living from the 60 cows if ya gave up the job in the morning?

keep going

bob charles wrote: »

would Expansion 2017/18/19 not be a better idea, a sit and wait approach and then kick on if its for you, when everyone is running in one direction, where are the smart boys going ??

Expanded already and hoping to make afew bob selling stock

case 956

hope to go to 80 cows, calving 60 to 65 in spring and remainder mid oct to late november

Mulumpy

J DEERE wrote: »

could you make a living from the 60 cows if ya gave up the job in the morning?

I would if I hadnt a mortgage and two houses to run

Viewtodiefor

bob charles wrote: »

would Expansion 2017/18/19 not be a better idea, a sit and wait approach and then kick on if its for you, when everyone is running in one direction, where are the smart boys going ??

I'd be pushing along but being careful not to expose oneself to any dramatic price falls, keep some cash surplus aside and have some worst case scenario business plan models, keep d borrowing long term and low as possible, no point going spending big n barely keeping ur head afloat , just so u can say u have x number of cows

Milked out

bob charles wrote: »

would Expansion 2017/18/19 not be a better idea, a sit and wait approach and then kick on if its for you, when everyone is running in one direction, where are the smart boys going ??

Would agree to an extent, more gradual growth would suit, and have been doing so, but in my case with regard to land availability it is now or never. Have to take the chance while it's there and I'm still young enough to do it

milkprofit

case 956 wrote: »

hope to go to 80 cows, calving 60 to 65 in spring and remainder mid oct to late november

WHYremainder mid oct to late november

case 956

milkprofit wrote: »

WHYremainder mid oct to late november

to have security of a milk cheque 12 months of the year... the way I look at it is the cows still have to be fed so why not run a few thru as bills still come regardless of cows dry or not and with me and the father at home we can share the milking over the winter and be still getting a rest and oct November calving to make the most from cause reaching peak in shed and on stable winter diet by then..... does anyone know does Lakeland have a winter milk quota?

6480

case 956 wrote: »

to have security of a milk cheque 12 months of the year... the way I look at it is the cows still have to be fed so why not run a few thru as bills still come regardless of cows dry or not and with me and the father at home we can share the milking over the winter and be still getting a rest and oct November calving to make the most from cause reaching peak in shed and on stable winter diet by then..... does anyone know does Lakeland have a winter milk quota?

they do but only for 4 months 4 cents extra

grazeaway

J DEERE wrote: »

Would ya not think 45 or 50 cows would sustain ya full time? Ya could run 40 with a job with a bit of help in the spring

Afraid not. In order to have the cows milked in the morning I would need to start about 5-30 to be finished and ready to go to work for 8. By the time I would be home and ready for the second milking it would be about 5-30 so it would be after 7 by the time I was finished. That leaves very little time to do anything else. So I would need to employ a milker for cows. The dairy cheque would have to be able to cover that much at a minimum before even starting to look at repayments and fiannly a few bob for myself.

grazeaway

bob charles wrote: »

would Expansion 2017/18/19 not be a better idea, a sit and wait approach and then kick on if its for you, when everyone is running in one direction, where are the smart boys going ??

Im Thinking the very same thing.

Viewtodiefor

grazeaway wrote: »

Im Thinking the very same thing.

And probably cheaper too!

delaval

I am almost at full tilt here between buying and leasing quota. I was very lucky with the blocks of land that came up and was able to expand to milk on it all quickly.

I am in a position to put 240 cows on a farm in 2015 as i have a farm and a landlord who is interested. I look at 2015 as the end of quotas but I don't need to rush that year. I have a feeling that with ll running that direction I may just cash in my surplus heifers and stock this farm a few years later when things calm down.

If I go for it I would need to invest 20k to upgrade road, 20k to restart the parlour plus the cost of the heifers that I'd have to keep

I reckon the cute ones will wait and from what I hear there will be several oppertunities because some of the planned conversions have no chance of surviving. I've seem two so far and it's unlikely they'll make it.

My expansion plans are around output and profit as opposed to more cows. I definitly will milk more cows but that will mean going back to contrct rearing which actually worked very well

So far I am ahead of here I had planned to be in 2015 and it's 2020 that's my next target.