Whats the point of abolishing the Seanad?

loseyourself · 03-10-2013 8:23pm #1

Whats the point of abolishing the Seanad to save 20,000,000 a year when more than 20,000,000,000 is spent a year on Welfare. Anyone just find this whole Seanad thing just a big massive joke!

biko · 03-10-2013 8:24pm

It seems you are both for and against the Seanad?

guinnessdrinker · 03-10-2013 8:27pm

biko wrote: »

It seems you are both for and against the Seanad?

A bit like some of the actual Senators themselves.

policarp · 03-10-2013 8:28pm

The Seanad is more educated than the Dail. IMO.

irish bloke · 03-10-2013 8:30pm

What is the Seanad?

_Redzer_ · 03-10-2013 8:30pm

The Seanad is an expensive waste of space and oxygen. Bulldoze it.

We have a crazy amount of politicians for such a tiny little country

loseyourself · 03-10-2013 8:32pm

I'm not quite sure really whether to abolish it or not but why the heck have a referendum for it. Means test the dole and reduce welfare. A 25 year old living with Mammy and Daddy does not need 188 week to survive.
How are people affording cars and holidays abroad on the dole.
Are our government really that thick. If a young one gets pregnant and doesn't use proper protection why does she get a free house and a ton of benefits. Its quite daft if you ask me. No wonder young ones are getting pregnant on purpose these days. Free house and tons of money. What could be better!

You get arrested for been drunk and disorderly, a young one gets a ton of money and a free house from having a one night stand.

galwayrush · 03-10-2013 8:32pm

Germany and the bankers have more power here than the Dail and Seanad, why do we need 4 different groups to run the place?

irish bloke · 03-10-2013 8:32pm

_Redzer_ wrote: »

The Seanad is an expensive waste of space and oxygen. Bulldoze it.

We have a crazy amount of politicians for such a tiny little country

Are they like the stonecutters?

MadYaker · 03-10-2013 8:32pm

Its costs 20 mil a year and has essentially been neutered by the Dail anyway. Its original purpose was good, it was supposed to be a second house filled with people from all different backgrounds who were experts in different fields so when legislation was being passed they could examine it and suggest ammendments. Originally I think it was supposed to apolitical, ie its members were not full time politicians or a member of any party.

Instead its a creche for retired politicians or politicians who failed to get elected to the Dail. It serves no real purpose and since there's no hope of reform it should be abolished for the financial savings since we're flat broke.

Days 298 · 03-10-2013 8:33pm

galwayrush wrote: »

Germany and the bankers have more power here than the Dail and Seanad, why do we need 4 different groups to run the place?

Decentralisation :pac:

Kev. · 03-10-2013 8:34pm

loseyourself wrote: »

Our are government really that thick

You mean-Are our government really that thick?

_Redzer_ · 03-10-2013 8:35pm

irish bloke wrote: »

Are they like the stonecutters?

If the Simpsons has taught me anything it's that they're nothing like the stonecutters, unfortunately.

galwayrush · 03-10-2013 8:35pm

Kev. wrote: »

You mean-Are our government really that thick?

'Are' and the '?'

hansfrei · 03-10-2013 8:35pm

Something about the dole
Something about teachers
Something borrowed
Something blue

03-10-2013 8:36pm

We should not make a decision on anything to do with constitutional changes based on money. So that money argument never washed with me.

03-10-2013 8:36pm

policarp wrote: »

The Seanad is more educated than the Dail. IMO.

Some real insight can be found there alright.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypBGI2_YXeo

BrianHal · 03-10-2013 8:36pm

loseyourself wrote: »

I'm not quite sure really whether to abolish it or not but why the heck have a referendum for it. Means test the dole and reduce welfare. A 25 year old living with Mammy and Daddy does not need 188 week to survive.
How are people affording cars and holidays abroad on the dole.
Are our government really that thick. If a young one gets pregnant and doesn't use proper protection why does she get a free house and a ton of benefits. Its quite daft if you ask me. No wonder young ones are getting pregnant on purpose these days. Free house and tons of money. What could be better!

You get arrested for been drunk and disorderly, a young one gets a ton of money and a free house from having a one night stand.

Foreign hols and cars are paid for by working off-the-books.

irish bloke · 03-10-2013 8:38pm

Kev. wrote: »

You mean-Are our government really that thick?

We know what he ment. Jeasus.....

armchair fusilier · 03-10-2013 8:39pm

It's useless in it's current form and no Government is willingly going to dilute it's own power - which it would have to do if the Seanad was to be relevant.

BrianHal · 03-10-2013 8:41pm

armchair fusilier wrote: »

It's useless in it's current form and no Government is willingly going to dilute it's own power - which it would have to do if the Seanad was to be relevant.

Isn't that what people really want though? Less power in the Dail, and at most 100 TDs?

MadYaker · 03-10-2013 8:41pm

Plus its full of morons like David Norris and Fidelma Healy Eames. I can't wait to see them turfed out on their arses.

tayto lover · 03-10-2013 8:44pm

I would like the following --

1. Reform the Seanad and allow us to vote Senators in.

2. Reduce the Dail by 60 T.D.'s

Win / win for the electorate.

loseyourself · 03-10-2013 8:44pm

I'm sure they could save 3 billion on welfare easily, instead what will happen they will increase VAT, income tax, petrol, car tax which will raise pennies. Why not cut people over 25 who are living with Mammy and Daddy down to 100 euro. Welfare is far too generous, A girl gets pregnant and gets a free house and tons of benefits. Its quite mind boggling really.

loseyourself · 03-10-2013 8:45pm

tayto lover wrote: »

I would like the following --

1. Reform the Seanad and allow us to vote Senators in.

2. Reduce the Dail by 60 T.D.'s

Win / win for the electorate.

It will only save pennies. Look at the welfare budget this needs to be badly reformed!

kneemos · 03-10-2013 8:45pm

loseyourself wrote: »

I'm not quite sure really whether to abolish it or not but why the heck have a referendum for it. Means test the dole and reduce welfare. A 25 year old living with Mammy and Daddy does not need 188 week to survive.
How are people affording cars and holidays abroad on the dole.
Are our government really that thick. If a young one gets pregnant and doesn't use proper protection why does she get a free house and a ton of benefits. Its quite daft if you ask me. No wonder young ones are getting pregnant on purpose these days. Free house and tons of money. What could be better!

You get arrested for been drunk and disorderly, a young one gets a ton of money and a free house from having a one night stand.

The extra benefits are for the child's welfare.

BillyMitchel · 03-10-2013 8:45pm

Fock you depute Stag, fock you!

armchair fusilier · 03-10-2013 8:47pm

BrianHal wrote: »

Isn't that what people really want though? Less power in the Dail, and at most 100 TDs?

Yes, but you will never get td's to vote for that, it would be against their self-interest.

policarp · 03-10-2013 8:48pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Some real insight can be found there alright.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypBGI2_YXeo

The exception proves the rule?

loseyourself · 03-10-2013 8:48pm

kneemos wrote: »

The extra benefits are for the child's welfare.

And the house? and its a lot of extra benefits. I know people with flat screen tvs, decent cars and go on foreign holidays. They get way more than a few extra benefits.

Why should I pay my mortgage when a young one gets pregnant and gets a house for nothing. They seem to be much better off than me and my family anyway.

THE THING THAT IS CRIPPLING OUR COUNTRY IS WELFARE

Zebra3 · 03-10-2013 8:54pm

loseyourself wrote: »

I'm sure they could save 3 billion on welfare easily, instead what will happen they will increase VAT, income tax, petrol, car tax which will raise pennies. Why not cut people over 25 who are living with Mammy and Daddy down to 100 euro. Welfare is far too generous, A girl gets pregnant and gets a free house and tons of benefits. Its quite mind boggling really.

Of course the government could always cut welfare for bankers and their gambling buddies.

But they'd rather f*ck over the people than do that.

Mike 1972 · 03-10-2013 9:00pm

Is this thread about the senate or just a welfare-bashing-rabble-rabble thread ?

loseyourself · 03-10-2013 9:06pm

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Is this thread about the senate or just a welfare-bashing-rabble-rabble thread ?

Its more about the government been clueless.

BillyMitchel · 03-10-2013 9:08pm

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Is this thread about the senate or just a welfare-bashing-rabble-rabble thread ?

The usual AH crap. Escalated to the dole and single mothers rubbish. Rabble rabble rabble jews rabble rabble rabble tracksuit rabble rabble rabble budwesiser rabble rabble rabble high horses rabble rabble rabble dole rabble rabble rabble the country is focked because of the dole rabble rabble rabble Sinn Fein rabble rabble rabble skangers...

tayto lover · 03-10-2013 9:13pm

loseyourself wrote: »

It will only save pennies. Look at the welfare budget this needs to be badly reformed!

Do you honestly believe that you or I will benefit from any savings made by abolishing the Seanad? They will divert the savings into the Dail as they have said.
We gain nothing.

zenno · 03-10-2013 9:16pm

loseyourself wrote: »

I'm not quite sure really whether to abolish it or not but why the heck have a referendum for it. Means test the dole and reduce welfare. A 25 year old living with Mammy and Daddy does not need 188 week to survive.
How are people affording cars and holidays abroad on the dole.
Are our government really that thick. If a young one gets pregnant and doesn't use proper protection why does she get a free house and a ton of benefits. Its quite daft if you ask me. No wonder young ones are getting pregnant on purpose these days. Free house and tons of money. What could be better!

You get arrested for been drunk and disorderly, a young one gets a ton of money and a free house from having a one night stand.

Is this a dole thread or an on topic thread about the seanad ?

Bullseye1 · 03-10-2013 9:17pm

The hypocrisy of the current government stating that it cannot be reformed. I really don't know how Enda can hold a straight face. If he cannot reform a relatively simple institution as The Seanad how is he to reform the Dail as promised. He states its a waste of 20 million yet nominate his cronies to the place when they fail to get elected. We can have a referendum on this but not on the bank bailout or pensions for overpaid ministers and TDs.

But let's have on for Judges pay.

loseyourself · 03-10-2013 9:18pm

BillyMitchel wrote: »

The usual AH crap. Escalated to the dole and single mothers rubbish. Rabble rabble rabble jews rabble rabble rabble tracksuit rabble rabble rabble budwesiser rabble rabble rabble high horses rabble rabble rabble dole rabble rabble rabble the country is focked because of the dole rabble rabble rabble Sinn Fein rabble rabble rabble skangers...

zenno · 03-10-2013 9:19pm

Everyone should vote NO, because like all other referenda in Ireland... we will be asked to vote on it again, but next time we will get the option to force-reform it.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience · 03-10-2013 9:21pm

_Redzer_ wrote: »

The Seanad is an expensive waste of space and oxygen. Bulldoze it.

We have a crazy amount of politicians for such a tiny little country

In the grand scheme of things it's not expensive at all

That said we don't need it and it has very little power so may as well get rid

Funnily enough the cost of running this referendum is more or less the same as it costs to run the seanad for a year

loseyourself · 03-10-2013 9:22pm

zenno wrote: »

Is this a dole thread or an on topic thread about the seanad ?

Point of thread is abolishing the Seanad will save nothing when welfare is at 20 billion.

iwantmydinner · 03-10-2013 9:27pm

loseyourself wrote: »

Its more about the government been clueless.

You're doing a *really* good job of making it look like a single mother bashing thread, though

tayto lover · 03-10-2013 9:32pm

zenno wrote: »

Everyone should vote NO, because like all other referenda in Ireland... we will be asked to vote on it again, but next time we will get the option to force-reform it.

The whole point of this Referendum is to indulge Enda in another little power trip.

loseyourself · 03-10-2013 9:33pm

iwantmydinner wrote: »

You're doing a *really* good job of making it look like a single mother bashing thread, though

Well its the truth. My family would be better off if I walked out and left financially.

Savoir.Faire · 03-10-2013 9:35pm

It will be a shame to see the abolishment of a chamber that has had amongst its contributors: William Butler Yeats, T. K. Whitaker, Edward Pakenham and Douglas Hyde.

earlyevening · 03-10-2013 9:38pm

Looks like we'll abolish the Seanad in the referendum and save a few quid, then blow it all (and more) setting up an Appeals court in the other referendum.

Fewer politicans and more judges!

Its a zero sum game.

zenno · 03-10-2013 9:39pm

tayto lover wrote: »

The whole point of this Referendum is to indulge Enda in another little power trip.

Well if Enda really wants it abolished, then i am sure if everyone votes NO, he will bring it back for voting a year later with the missing part called Reform.

tayto lover · 03-10-2013 9:39pm

Savoir.Faire wrote: »

It will be a shame to see the abolishment of a chamber that has had amongst its contributors: William Butler Yeats, T. K. Whitaker, Edward Pakenham and Douglas Hyde.

Correct.It should be reformed, numbers halved, reduced hours thus reduced wages, anything BUT should be retained.
This is not about saving money and people should ask themselves why Enda wants it closed.

iwantmydinner · 03-10-2013 9:43pm

loseyourself wrote: »

Well its the truth. My family would be better off if I walked out and left financially.

But what's that got to do with the Referendum?

loseyourself · 03-10-2013 9:55pm

iwantmydinner wrote: »

But what's that got to do with the Referendum?

If you read my first opening post you would see the point I am trying to make is that the its pointless abolishing the Seanad as it will only save pennies when welfare is at 20 billion and this needs to be addressed. I must not have making myself clear. Overpaying on welfare is destroying the country. If proper proceedings were introduced the 20 billion could be cut down quite a lot.

Savoir.Faire · 03-10-2013 10:02pm

tayto lover wrote: »

Correct.It should be reformed, numbers halved, reduced hours thus reduced wages, anything BUT should be retained.
This is not about saving money and people should ask themselves why Enda wants it closed.

It clearly hasn't been fit for purpose. It would be ideal to have a second house that deals with some of the more cerebral issues and agendas that are relevant to the State. A place where the broader cultural and artistic merits of this country are debated using the principles of ethos, logos and, to a much lesser extent, pathos.

Whats the point of abolishing the Seanad?

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