audax gps advice please.

feck sake lads

sorry cant find the Audax thread as i'm crap on these computers.
ok so ive sold all my touring gear bike included moment of madness but been doing things like that all my life never fooking learn.:mad:

Anyway i was think if i get my raleigh sorted for audax i will do a few next year, i just ordered new mudguards and new light everything else i have except one thing a good not to expensive simple to use GPS.
i know you audax lads use these,it would be dead handy for me as map reading is not one of my skills:o
(got lost in a car park one time.):D
any help greatly appreciated.

Surveyor11

Only dipped my toes into Audax, the Mick Byrne 200, and that put me off for life....:pac:

I use a Garmin Edge 500 - they can be picked reasonable at the moment - still expensive though! Lidl had GPS bike yokes a few weeks ago for €50 that were basic but seemed to do the job.

You can upload a course to them, it can be a bit fiddly. When I say upload a course - it's not like a car sat nav in terms of detail, but will guide you through you route and buzz when you go off course i.e.. if you come to a y junction and take the wrong fork.

rflynnr

I literally wouldn't do an Audax event without one, though plenty of others do. Their major advantage is that they're not reliant on printed course note distances matching that displayed by your speedo. A top of the range Garmin Edge 800 (which basically holds you by the hand and guides you with you infinite precision) will cost north of €300. I use (or used till it disappeared the day before the Six Megaliths) an Edge 705 which you may well find a second hand version of for sale at half the cost of a new Edge 800.

The only disadvantage is that you're limited to events shorter than the battery life of the Garmin. The borrowed unit I used on the Six Megaliths ran out literally as I rolled into the last checkpoint (i.e. it lasted for 15 and a half hours) so if you think you're going to be out for longer than that, it may be worth practicing your map-reading skills...

Inquitus

An Edge 500 will get you round with its breadcrumb trail. An Edge 800 is much better due to the maps etc. but will struggle to last a full 300km, but fine for 200km. The Audax pros tend to use the 800's but have a Hub Dynamo to keep them charged.

The course notes aren't as bad as people say, on the recent 6 Megaliths 300 my Garmin was struggling with the weather and losing its lock, I found the course notes to do a fine job, ideally you want them visible and strapped to your handlebars or handlebar bag if fitted otherwise it really slows you down stopping to read them.

CramCycle

Course notes and following for a sheep for the beginning. If you get lost, pull out as smart phone, turn it on, get a gps lock and figure out if you are near or are on course and use google maps directions to get you back on course.

That's what I do, google maps with directions do the job nicely and is far cheaper, just remember to leave the phone off until you get lost so it will have enough power to help you find your way back when needed.

Inquitus

I did my first few with just the directions and a smartphone, it depends on the complexity of the route, but I found it slowed me down alot and got me lost a good bit, especially on the multitude of crisscrossing lanes in the Wicklow mountains, also data coverage can be patchy at times so the auld smartphone can't solve all your woes! The addition of a breadcrumb trail and an edge 500 made a huge difference lessening the amount of extra bonus km's per Audax and time spent figuring out which fécking way to go!

Alek

The only disadvantage is that you're limited to events shorter than the battery life of the Garmin.

You can trickle-charge Garmin 800 from a battery pack like this:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lightning-Sensation-Blackberry-connectors-customized/dp/B0063AAIRG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1380741418&sr=8-1&keywords=anker+10000mah


Should last long enough for RAAM :-D

I am not sure about other models, though.

Inquitus

alkos wrote: »

snip

I have one of them, only problem is you can't use them in truly inclement weather for obvious reasons!

CramCycle

Inquitus wrote: »

made a huge difference lessening the amount of extra bonus km's per Audax

AFAIK, the organisers never charge for the extra few kilometers :pac:

Dermot Illogical

OP, you should be able to pick up a used Garmin 705 for under €100.
Battery life is around 17 hours I think.

Alek

I have one of them, only problem is you can't use them in truly inclement weather for obvious reasons!

Out of the box - true, but you still have 12h of cycling in any kind of rain on the built-in battery :-)

If you're into DIY, you can make it fairly weatherproof with some Sugru or silicone sealant, though.

cdaly_

alkos wrote: »

You can trickle-charge Garmin 800 from a battery pack like this:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lightning-Sensation-Blackberry-connectors-customized/dp/B0063AAIRG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1380741418&sr=8-1&keywords=anker+10000mah

That looks like a pretty good price! Is it usually that cheap?

I use a 4x AA cell charger to keep my smartphone alive. Works well enough and you can buy a set of batteries anywhere when the rechargeables run out.

That said, I use the smartphone to track where I am/have been, not to navigate. I use the routesheet and a printed (google) map with the route marked as my navigation aids. This may, in part, be due to the fact that I can barely see the map on the phone 'cos the eyes ain't what they used to be...

Alek

I have exactly this one - it is really well made / solid and holds the advertised charge. Note that 10000 mAh @ 3.7V (lithium cells inside) turn into ~7500mAh at the USB output (5V), but it is still 4+ charges of a typical smartphone or 6+ of Garmin 800.

feck sake lads

alkos wrote: »

I have exactly this one - it is really well made / solid and holds the advertised charge. Note that 10000 mAh @ 3.7V (lithium cells inside) turn into ~7500mAh at the USB output (5V), but it is still 4+ charges of a typical smartphone or 6+ of Garmin 800.

eh sorry what was that:eek:

Alek

Sorry, too technical I guess ;-)

To cut the long story short, you can get 6 or 7 full charges of Garmin 800 from this particular battery pack. Or keep it going for ~90 hours non-stop.

smacl

I've a clunky old GPSmap 76c, which takes 2xAA batteries, which gives me breadcrumb trail and simple maps. I get about 16 hours on two new batteries, if the backlight and other sensors are off, but carry spare batteries. Problem is the GPS interferes with the wireless cateye, so it's either/or.

feck sake lads

what about the etrek vista or legend units will they work.i had the legend on my tourer didnt really ge on with it .

smacl

The lad I was cycling with on the dying cow last year had an old vista AFAIR (though might have been a etrex), which gave him the breadcrumb trail, but don't know much about other units outside of that. I picked up a mount from MySatNave.ie, so I'd say if its designed for the wet, you can download a route, and mount the unit, you're good to go.

feck sake lads

the garmin 705 seems popular might try for one second hand.
thanks everyone seems that any gps would work just need a idiot proof one for yours truly.

cheers.
fsl.

xbox gamer

I have used the Garmin 200 for the Kings Mountain and like the 500 it gives a breadcrumb trail. Its the basic model and did me just fine. I just had to find out how to load the route to it and i was set. I forget if it rotates between the screens (to speed/distance/time) or whether you can have the route on it full time (its been a while since i used it this way). Again it says it will last 14 hours so some charge may be needed for over 200km. Picked it up in halfords for €120 at the time, although you might get it cheaper elsewhere.

This is how the route is displayed. It doesn't show any other roads just the one you're meant to take.

feck sake lads

just been messing with the gps on my smartphone jasus what a load of bother to get a map:eek:
i had a look at price of etrek legend on amazon (gave it away with deal on bike) £130 never learn.
but i did figure out a way to go from one point to another on it,so i suppose if i got the route on any audax i was planning on doing then maybe i could plot that entire route.

RV

From what I see and hear Garmin is not reliable on long events. Battery life is only one of its issues. Rain/wet is a second and it seems to invariably freeze soon after it hits 400 km. I agree there are workarounds but IMO Garmin never had Audax in mind. Audax events come with free and reliable routesheets and this is considered the 'bible' when navigating. That means when there is a conflict between Garmin/map or official routesheet, you follow the sheet.
It takes a little practice but is a necessary skill. Stick with this and you quickly develop a sixth sense about which way the organiser would probably have wanted you to go. (You should be heading uphill, into the wind and away from any form of life. If this isn't happening you are probably very seriously lost). Focusing on a routesheet is a help when you are finding the going tough; it helps break what might seem like an impossibly long event into "the next step" and a manageable bite.
As you sometimes buy and sell on impulse (?) I would postpone buying any Garmin. The organiser ( a sage) said at the start of a recent event "There is usually an experienced Audax rider behind you who will be along soon and be wiling to help". They are a sociable bunch and no-one wants to see a newbie dropped.

feck sake lads

RV wrote: »

From what I see and hear Garmin is not reliable on long events. Battery life is only one of its issues. Rain/wet is a second and it seems to invariably freeze soon after it hits 400 km. I agree there are workarounds but IMO Garmin never had Audax in mind. Audax events come with free and reliable routesheets and this is considered the 'bible' when navigating. That means when there is a conflict between Garmin/map or official routesheet, you follow the sheet.
It takes a little practice but is a necessary skill. Stick with this and you quickly develop a sixth sense about which way the organiser would probably have wanted you to go. (You should be heading uphill, into the wind and away from any form of life. If this isn't happening you are probably very seriously lost). Focusing on a routesheet is a help when you are finding the going tough; it helps break what might seem like an impossibly long event into "the next step" and a manageable bite.
As you sometimes buy and sell on impulse (?) I would postpone buying any Garmin. The organiser ( a sage) said at the start of a recent event "There is usually an experienced Audax rider behind you who will be along soon and be wiling to help". They are a sociable bunch and no-one wants to see a newbie dropped.

WOW RV i think you just hit the nail on the head seriously thanks.

ford2600

For me Audax or solo long distance cycling, a lot of the enjoyment comes from navigating. Looking at maps before hand to plan route and then doing it with a few simple notes.
Cycling is so different to driving, you have more time to sus out your route, you think more in terms of the mountains to cross or cycle around, rivers to cross or follow etc.
Should add I'm obsessed with maps and used to enjoy long distance hiking so maybe I'm not typical

feck sake lads

ford i cycled in italy and spain with a group the guy that was doing the route insisted he was well versed in map reading , he got us lost every 10 miles ended up cycling a very busy motorway in italy for 20 miles.i've never met a guy yet that could read a map properly.
i include myself in that btw.never had call to so it would be all new to me.:P
so on an audax ride do you get the route well in advance of the ride or is it handed to you at the start.

Alek

Rain/wet is a second and it seems to invariably freeze soon after it hits 400 km.

All Edge units are rainproof... I've cycled with mine in really bad storm with the USB flap open and it worked well... I just dried the usb slot before connecting it later.

I never heard about any regular freezing problems or distance limit on Garmins. Can you share some links on this?

I agree on the other hand that navigating with the sheet makes you generally more geographically aware, with GPS I can cycle for miles and miles, lost in though... This way I've missed a checkpoint on the last Audax :-/

RV

...share some links...

I was drawing on my own experience mostly and what I observed. I was on a good few 400+ events in the last couple of years and it was a bonus when the Garmin worked.
A lot of electrical equipment stops working in heavy rain though it can be grand for a shower. But if you are charging as you ride, the lead can become a conduit for water into an electrical unit. Also, when the internal battery lasts for a few hundred k only, then IMO the unit was never designed for Audax. If Garmin wanted the Audax market they might consider a charging unit but AFAIK they haven't before now. It is one thing to be rainproof and quite another to be out in 20 or 30 or more hours of wet. They say that "it never stopped raining" on PBP 2007 or REK 2012 and the old-timers from REK 2007 say the floods were "up to the bottom bracket". Audax can be an extreme test of everything sometimes and even if you can stay going, sometimes your equipment can't.

smacl

Maybe the clunky old yoke I've got is better suited than I thought so, as it was a big favourite among the sailing community. Mind you, I usually forget to bring it, and my principal form of navigation is asking strangers where I am, and how do I get to such and such a place, which usually results in them sending me back down the road I've just come up. Either that or the careful explanation that to get to where I want to go, I'm basically starting from the wrong place.

The Ging and I

The garmin 800 is waterproof and I have no problem with rain with the charging lead causing any ingression.
How well they track events is down to how they are written up in the first place and no I have not worked out the best way yet.
Routes that I wrote up and worked perfectly one year were unusable the following year ???
For over 300ks I am starting to think the best plan is to make the event into parts ie REK 1 - REK2 because it seems the gps works better that way.
It is a good idea to download all of your events/ training regularly. if you have a big event on, clear everything off as you can upload them again if needed.

cdaly_

feck sake lads wrote: »

so on an audax ride do you get the route well in advance of the ride or is it handed to you at the start.

You get the map my ride route up on the website well in advance. The routesheet may be only a day or so in advance though I usually request a copy earlier so I can zoom it up to be able to read it on the day and laminate it to be able to read it in the rain...

kencoo

With a tricky Audax you NEED a sat nav of some sort. One of the lads had a charger that powered the device by dynamo. Perfect, as long as your moving.

CramCycle

kencoo wrote: »

Perfect, as long as your moving.

You would have to be still for a long time for this to be a problem.

feck sake lads

kencoo wrote: »

With a tricky Audax you NEED a sat nav of some sort. One of the lads had a charger that powered the device by dynamo. Perfect, as long as your moving.

trying to buy second hand etrek 20 seems a good gps.

smacl

feck sake lads wrote: »

trying to buy second hand etrek 20 seems a good gps.

Just make sure you can get a bike mount for it, suitable for oversize bars. I found it hard enough to find one for my old GPSmap76c.

feck sake lads

smacl wrote: »

Just make sure you can get a bike mount for it, suitable for oversize bars. I found it hard enough to find one for my old GPSmap76c.

looking at one on amazon the barmount is arond 9 sterling the unit £128.can they be bought and cheaper.

smacl

feck sake lads wrote: »

looking at one on amazon the barmount is arond 9 sterling the unit £128.can they be bought and cheaper.

Try Handtec

feck sake lads

smacl wrote: »

Try Handtec

wow a lot better there right enough.
before i press the button on this will it do exactly what i want it to do follow an audax route.
i'm totally stupit on this kinda gear:o
but it has to be better that reading a map.

back later thanks for the advice and that link.magic.

RV

I'm not asking for an argument; just sharing my experience FWIW...
Garmins (7/800) aren't reliable, aren't waterproof and aren't better than using a routesheet. An Audax routesheet is not a 'map' but a sheet with instructions. If you can't follow a routesheet you may not be able to operate a Garmin! That said, at worst a Garmin will be useful back-up. At best ... the sky's not even a limit.

feck sake lads

ah i reckon i could follow the route sheet ok but the gps would be a great help as well, i could fllow the legend i had on my tourer ok, what i was think about when i included it as part of the bike sale i'll never know.
anyway i just want to buy a good sat nat this looks good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_dznG8ZLUc

MB Lacey

Garmin are bringing out a 'Touring plus' satnav for bikes

http://www.bikeradar.com/road/news/article/garmin-edge-touring-plus-first-look-38624/

From this article I can't see how much different it is from the edge 800, I was expecting them to say the battery lasts 100 times longer or something, but no mention.
The only difference seems to be it lacks cadence/ power reads - so maybe it'll just be a cheaper version of the edge 800?
I'd like to see one at work and see if the screen is any easier to read.

Ole Rodrigo

The touring model leaves out the training and HR functions and should give some extra battery life. Still, 17 hours is pretty ok and if you stop off at a cafe you might be able to charge it up for a while.

Re the Edge not being Waterproof - clingfilm is your friend.

I think a second hand edge 705 offers the best value. Make sure you wipe it and reinstall the firmware though.