What's Your Advice for a Young Graduate?

Fukuyama

Hi guys,

I've both asked and answered questions on this forum and have found it to be a great resource for all aspects of business. I'm in need of some advice/tips/wisdom from more seasoned veterans who may have more experience in large companies and their own enterprises.

I'm 21 years old and in my final year of a Business degree course. I'm pushing to get a 1.1.

I've been thinking a lot lately about where I REALLY want to go.

I've always had a love for strategy, planning and international business. My Strategy Management module introduced me to the analyzing of companies, their environments, the world etc... This kind of work really pulls together my love for strategy, business, politics, cultures, society and research.

Spending hours working my way through books about Russia's cultural difference to mobile communications or journals about operating in adverse environments (war zones, poor infrastructure) is so interesting. I loved research assignments for this module.

I know I'm not going to walk into a lead strategy position overnight so I've been looking for related positions which would be open to a graduate. I also read BABOK (Business Analysis Body of Knowledge) which was interesting but didn't give much in the way of definitive job roles or descriptions.

My problem is that when I read job descriptions, graduate programs or even "entry level" job ads (few and far between) the descriptions seem so vague and unappealing.

Personality wise, I enjoy breaking down big problems into small, quantifiable variables and solving the puzzle. I also enjoy abstract thinking and coming up with new ways of doing things - even if my solutions are of 'student' caliber. :P

I often work alone for a while before coming back to a group or team with my ideas or points. I've no problem brainstorming or working as a group to spin out ideas or bounce around suggestions, but when it's time for in-depth thinking I prefer to work alone.

I'd really appreciate anyone who has worked with/for a medium to large company (multinational or not) at any time in their careers, replying with any advice or insight.

I'm also going to the Grad Ireland fair in the RDS in a week or so and want to speak to a few reps from companies without sounding like I've no idea what I'm talking about!

Thanks!

- Dean

Nika Bolokov

Sounds like London might be of interest to you. Something like becoming a management consultant at McKinsey (Aim high) or one of the Big 4 Accounting firms that have strategy consultancy as a product offering here.

Very limited opportunities in Ireland in that field. The ultimate use of these skills would of course be to start your own business !!

jetsonx

Nika Bolokov wrote: »

The ultimate use of these skills would of course be to start your own business !!

I agree.

If he goes to work for an agency he will most probably be writing strategy reports most of the time (and they will have lovely covers on them).

So if the OP is so good at strategy, he will want to start his own business. It is the purest form of taking theory and putting it into practice. He can never ever look back at his career saying "that strategy would have worked if only..." because he will be 100 per cent responsible.

Fukuyama

jetsonx wrote: »

I agree.

So if the OP is so good at strategy, he will want to start his own business. It is the purest form of taking theory and putting it into practice. He can never ever look back at his career saying "that strategy would have worked if only..." because he will be 100 per cent responsible.

Quite true. Although I don't feel ready to go it alone yet. I'd like to get some experience first.

ontour2

The Enterprise Ireland graduate programme may suit you:
- http://www.enterprise-ireland.com/en/About-Us/Our-People/Overview-Careers-in-Enterprise-Ireland.html


The Farmleigh Fellowship might also interest you:
http://www.farmleighfellowship.com/

I did a business degree and also loved the strategy side of things covered in the final year. As a graduate it will be extremely hard for you to get something like this though. Maybe with a 1.1 followed by a masters degree you might have a chance to get a position at deloitte or some company like this, but you would really need to be top of your class.
Me, I got a second class honours degree and couldn't get sh*t when I went for a job, this is what led me to being an entrepreneur and starting my own things since that was my only option really.
If you want a fancy business job which is what your asking for, theres really no room for error in your results and you'll need that masters, otherwise maybe the only other way is some sort of intern, or very low level job where you can demonstrate a good attitude in one of these companies like deloitte that will get you promoted

Fukuyama

Deleted User wrote: »

I did a business degree and also loved the strategy side of things covered in the final year. As a graduate it will be extremely hard for you to get something like this though. Maybe with a 1.1 followed by a masters degree you might have a chance to get a position at deloitte or some company like this, but you would really need to be top of your class.
Me, I got a second class honours degree and couldn't get sh*t when I went for a job, this is what led me to being an entrepreneur and starting my own things since that was my only option really.
If you want a fancy business job which is what your asking for, theres really no room for error in your results and you'll need that masters, otherwise maybe the only other way is is an some sort of intern, or very low level job where you can demonstrate a good attitude in one of these companies like deloitte that will get you promoted

I've been looking at the management consultancy jobs in the big 4, IBM, Accenture, McKinsey. They all seem really interesting but I'm getting the feeling that I'll need to be way more qualified than I am.

For what it's worth (and it's causing me some concern), my degree will be from NCI. I suspect that the big 4 concentrate on the likes of Trinity and UCD graduates? Or am I picking up on elitism that's no longer present??

If I got a 1.1 from NCI, would I even be considered for internships or graduate positions?

I see that most of them offer summer internships. I'm going to start applying to all of them over the next couple of weeks. I have no problem working my way up into a graduate position.

I'd really love the experience of working on big projects like the ones they have on offer.

If it turns out that I'm high and dry in Dublin I'll ship off to London.

If they're nothing there then I guess a Masters will be required. Might have to go full time in my job to build up some cash though. That'd tack another two years onto things.

Peterdalkey

Good realistic post by El Rifle.

Internships are a great way to showcase your talents and for prospective employers to get a look at potential hires in a working environment. As to further study, all professional firms expect those joining to engage in further training/education, the phrase " lifetime learning" is their mantra.

Atomico

Go get your 1.1, it will make you stand out. Don't get too hung up on qualifications, it is much more about hard work, learning on the job and becoming self-taught to an extent.

Employers don't want to have to hold your hand, they want someone who can come in and take the lead (even if you aren't that experienced starting off) - so demonstrate what you can do and you can probably 'write your own ticket', as they say. As a graduate you aren't expected to have experience (obviously), they are looking for potential and your readiness to get stuck in.

Fukuyama

Thanks for all the advice so far guys and for suggesting various companies and programs.

I'd love to hear from anyone who has actually been through a graduate scheme, how they found it, what was expected of them etc...

- Dean

Nika Bolokov

Hi Dean,

I went through a Big 4 scheme many years ago. You work with great people, some of the people you join the scheme with will be your friends for many years.

You will learn how to behave in a corporate environment, take on people who know more than you, are more senior than you and win or at least come out even. You will gain confidence and get exposure to some really well run companies.

You will work very hard, be stressed at times, hate it at times, want to quit but its worth it in the end.

I think they have upped the entry criteria since I joined......you need I think 450 points in the leaving now I hear, degree from NCI? not sure what there view is on that but when I went through there were a few from NCI there but I think they had done a postgrad at UCD too. No idea what the situation is now.

If they knock you back don't mind it, just keep going focus on getting into what you want to get into, pick up experience where you can and points or degrees or whatever you will get there in the end.

Fukuyama

Nika Bolokov wrote: »

Hi Dean,

I went through a Big 4 scheme many years ago. You work with great people, some of the people you join the scheme with will be your friends for many years.

You will learn how to behave in a corporate environment, take on people who know more than you, are more senior than you and win or at least come out even. You will gain confidence and get exposure to some really well run companies.

You will work very hard, be stressed at times, hate it at times, want to quit but its worth it in the end.

I think they have upped the entry criteria since I joined......you need I think 450 points in the leaving now I hear, degree from NCI? not sure what there view is on that but when I went through there were a few from NCI there but I think they had done a postgrad at UCD too. No idea what the situation is now.

If they knock you back don't mind it, just keep going focus on getting into what you want to get into, pick up experience where you can and points or degrees or whatever you will get there in the end.

Cheers Nika,

Crap. I only got 340 in the LC if I remember correctly. I'll keep applying though :P

I've earmarked over a dozen companies so far.

Yeah, the main reason I want to go through a graduate scheme is to gain exposure to the corporate world and learn how to handle myself.

A postgrad is on the card too. I'll see how I get on with my degree first though :P

Hanley

I came out of NCI with a 1.1 in accounting and HRM and went in with 400 LC points.

Couldn't get a look in with the big 4, but a number of class mates did. To the best of my knowledge, their LC results seperated us, and possibly their application forms.

That being said I write a good story so the major issue I see is LC results.

That was 5 years ago now tho. So I'm not sure if its still relevant.

I got into the real world after a 3.5 year audit trainng contract and started my own biz over a year ago now.

Haven't looked back since.

ted1

Would you consider doing a MBA?

Twix44

By the sounds of things you would be suited to management consultancy. A lot of the work is strategy based and very interesting like the stuff you speak about.

Accenture are the main player in Ireland, and Deloitte do a decent program too i think. Boston Consulting are looking for graduates too i think.

If you're looking to the top, then as the guys said above, London is probably the best route. McKinseys, Bain, and Capgemini are the major players.

Push on for the 1:1 because you will need something to distinguish yourself. Sounds like you know what you're talking about so I'd give it a shot if I was you.

Have you considered going into academia?

It would require a research based post grad presumably.