Congestion charge for city?

emptybladder

The City Manager seems to be suggesting congestion charges for the city.
If the Outer Bypass was actually built, proper public transport was available and they introduced a congestion tax, how would you feel about it?

I don't necessarily disagree with the idea if bypass etc were in place, but then again, I did include a lot of 'ifs' there!!

Source: https://twitter.com/endacunningham/status/384758509176627200

Zzippy

Is he fcukin joking? Its alright for somewhere like London, with ample bus, train and underground options to get around. Galway has virtually none of those. And for the usual public transport evangelists on this forum, before you get started, no, we don't have enough public transport links to introduce a congestion charge.

Iwannahurl

Congestion charging/road pricing in general is a good idea. Road space is a finite resource, and it is reasonable to place a higher value on its use when demand potentially exceeds supply. Basic transport economics, I would suggest.

However, it might be tricky to deliver in Galway City, as it would need to be equitable.

The four bridges across the Corrib are ideal for tolling perhaps, but would an East-West cordon be fair on people resident in Salthill, Knocknacarra and Barna who are just trying to get across town to where the jobs are?

Of course cycling would be free, and bus fares would have to be lower than the congestion charge. Revenue would have to be dedicated to the upgrading of public transport etc so that mode-switching commuters get some payback.

antoobrien

emptybladder wrote: »

The City Manager seems to be suggesting congestion charges for the city.
If the Outer Bypass was actually built, proper public transport was available and they introduced a congestion tax, how would you feel about it?

I don't necessarily disagree with the idea if bypass etc were in place, but then again, I did include a lot of 'ifs' there!!

Source: https://twitter.com/endacunningham/status/384758509176627200

Already been ruled out of hand for Dublin where they have a half decent PT network (don't let the skangers tell you otherwise), so no way in hell it's going to happen here.

what_traffic

It is a scare tactic so that when they start increasing car parking charges in the near future motorists will feel relieved that they also didnt bring in a congestion charge.

antoobrien

what_traffic wrote: »

It is a scare tactic so that when they start increasing car parking charges in the near future motorists will feel relieved that they also didnt bring in a congestion charge.

As a scare tactic it's rather toothless when the minsiter has laughed off another such proposal.

The NTA said that unless a 'road use charging scheme' -- or a congestion charge -- was introduced by 2020, cities would grind to a halt.

In a strategy document, the agency charged with delivering public transport services in the capital warned that traffic volumes would increase over the coming years, leading to longer delays for commuters.

Only by charging motorists a fee to drive into the city would they switch to bus and rail services, it said.

But the recommendations were immediately rejected by Mr Varadkar. Cities with a congestion charge in place -- including Oslo and London -- already had a high quality public transport system which offered commuters an alternative, he told the Irish Independent.

"Irish cities are not currently able to provide such an extensive public transport alternative," he said.

"Alternative travel options should be in place before any congestion charging scheme is introduced. Although the Government is committed to promoting sustainable transport and encouraging far greater use of public transport to ease congestion, congestion charging is not currently being promoted," he added.

antoobrien

Iwannahurl wrote: »

The four bridges across the Corrib are ideal for tolling perhaps, but would an East-West cordon be fair on people resident in Salthill, Knocknacarra and Barna who are just trying to get across town to where the jobs are?

It's for entering the city centre, which is (currently) defined by the council as:
The Railway bridge at Lough Atalia -> Bothar Ui hEthir -> St Bridgets Place -> Dyke -> Bridge -> Newcastle Rd -> Nile lodge (via St Mary's Rd) -> Fr Griffin Rd -> the Customs House -> the Docks -> The railway bridge.

So if there was an alternative route provided (which you have conveniently left out the city manager said was necessary), they wouldn't have to enter the defined city center now would they?

Iwannahurl

antoobrien wrote: »

It's for entering the city centre, which is (currently) defined by the council as:
The Railway bridge at Lough Atalia -> Bothar Ui hEthir -> St Bridgets Place -> Dyke -> Bridge -> Newcastle Rd -> Nile lodge (via St Mary's Rd) -> Fr Griffin Rd -> the Customs House -> the Docks -> The railway bridge.

So if there was an alternative route provided (which you have conveniently left out the city manager said was necessary), they wouldn't have to enter the defined city center now would they?

I didn't leave out anything, conveniently or otherwise.

There are four bridges.

Since using the bridges is necessary to cross the Corrib river, they are ideal for toll gates, in technical terms. That's why the Stockholm Trängselskatt works so well, for example.

Incidentally the Stockholm congestion charge trial decreased car traffic by about 20%, while use of their very efficient public transport system increased by 5%. Source: http://kth.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:139767/FULLTEXT01.pdf

antoobrien

Iwannahurl wrote: »

I didn't leave out anything, conveniently or otherwise.

Really, the sentinel article suggests otherwise:

“A car-free city returned to pedestrians,” is how the Manager, Brendan McGrath, envisages the future of Galway.

And the construction of the Outer Bypass – coupled with a modal shift from cars to public transport, walking and cycling – are essential for sustainable development, he said.

Iwannahurl wrote: »

There are four bridges.

Since using the bridges is necessary to cross the Corrib river, they are ideal for toll gates, in technical terms.

But that's not what the city manager has suggested is it?

More scaremongering.

Mrs OBumble

antoobrien wrote: »

It's for entering the city centre, which is (currently) defined by the council as:
The Railway bridge at Lough Atalia -> Bothar Ui hEthir -> St Bridgets Place -> Dyke -> Bridge -> Newcastle Rd -> Nile lodge (via St Mary's Rd) -> Fr Griffin Rd -> the Customs House -> the Docks -> The railway bridge.

The residents of that area - and there are a fair few of us - would have a lot to say about the proposal.

I deliberately choose not to have a personal vehicle, because I don't need one 'cos I live in the city. But sometimes I do want to take a vehicle close to my house. Even I (one of the biggest public transport evangelists here, and proud of it) don't see that I should have to pay extra for this.

antoobrien

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

The residents of that area - and there are a fair few of us - would have a lot to say about the proposal.

I deliberately choose not to have a personal vehicle, because I don't need one 'cos I live in the city. But sometimes I do want to take a vehicle close to my house. Even I (one of the biggest public transport evangelists here, and proud of it) don't see that I should have to pay extra for this.

I'd imagine that there'd have to be residents exemptions/discounts, similar to the London scheme. Don't know how it would work on rentals etc though.

dinneenp

If you want people to stay out of the center of Galway you need a large shopping center OUTSIDE town (Dunnes Stores in Knocknakara doesn't count)

Mrs OBumble

dinneenp wrote: »

If you want people to stay out of the center of Galway you need a large shopping center OUTSIDE town (Dunnes Stores in Knocknakara doesn't count)

Tesco Oranmore problaby would though!

Along with Lidl and Dunnes etc at Briarhill.

dinneenp

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Tesco Oranmore problaby would though!

Along with Lidl and Dunnes etc at Briarhill.

Yes and no.
I mean somewhere like Liffey Valley (smaller size), where people have a large selection of shops and not just for grocery shopping

snubbleste

Tbh the Council are just grasping at straws at this point

Gambas

Seems a bit mad seeing as the city centre is less congested than the roads in the suburbs.

Antifa161

If buses into the city were scheduled to arrive more often than once an hour, hell even if you could rely on said buses arriving on time or at least not early (so you miss it entirely) or at all then maybe more people would use public transport, reducing congestion.

How much is a bus these days? 1.80? There is basically no reason for anybody with access to a car to opt for public transport instead, and even for the rest, you only ever get a bus if it's raining too much to walk.

Mrs OBumble

Antifa161 wrote: »

How much is a bus these days? 1.80? There is basically no reason for anybody with access to a car to opt for public transport instead, and even for the rest, you only ever get a bus if it's raining too much to walk.

BE city fares are 1.80. City Direct are 2.00, with some discounts for students on the 412.

All city routes have frequencies more than once per hour. Best case is every 15 mins (Doughiska and Parkmore) average is every 20 (Ballybane, Rahoon, Knocknacarra, Merlin/Renmore, Salthill) and a few are every 30 or even 40 mins.

I would go so far as to say there's no reason for anyone doing a simple suburbs-to-city-centre and back journey to take a car into town. Traffic and parking are a nightmare, the bus is hugely less stressful.

swiftman

something ive been thinking a long time ago and i hope it happens.
i live 20mins walk from eyre square and never need to drive, very rarely id take the bus as its expensive.
if this comes in, id hope the bus would be something like 70cent.

id guess people living inside the city would get some pass.

also another idea, if a car goes into the city and lets say spend €70 on food/clothes/etc and show the receipts, they then wont have to pay congestion charge.
(receipt would get stamped so wouldnt be used more then once)

Iwannahurl

swiftman wrote: »

also another idea, if a car goes into the city and lets say spend €70 on food/clothes/etc and show the receipts, they then wont have to pay congestion charge.

What about proportionate inducements for shoppers who spend the same amount but who contribute nothing to traffic congestion (etc) by virtue of the fact that they walk, cycle or take the bus to the city?

gordongekko

Iwannahurl wrote: »

What about proportionate inducements for shoppers who spend the same amount but who contribute nothing to traffic congestion (etc) by virtue of the fact that they walk, cycle or take the bus to the city?

they get a beautiful cycle or walk, the joy of hearing the birds singing and a lovely bit of exercise.

Iwannahurl

gordongekko wrote: »

they get a beautiful cycle or walk, the joy of hearing the birds singing and a lovely bit of exercise.

We get that anyway.

Drivers get to listen to the radio. Isn't that enough?

James Forde

Here's an idea, build a fcuking bypass you shower of incompetent incumbents

Laviski

James Forde wrote: »

Here's an idea, build a fcuking bypass you shower of incompetent incumbents

damm straight! should have being built by now.
but ofc its delayed by just plain bs.

if the current route gets the go ahead cause of the importance of it the objectors should foot the bill.

antoobrien

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I would go so far as to say there's no reason for anyone doing a simple suburbs-to-city-centre and back journey to take a car into town.

Yes there is, the inability to carry that which it is one goes into town for. I avoid bring the car into town where I can, but that doesn't mean that the bus is always (or even half the time) the appropriate mode of transport.

Mrs OBumble

antoobrien wrote: »

Yes there is, the inability to carry that which it is one goes into town for. I avoid bring the car into town where I can, but that doesn't mean that the bus is always (or even half the time) the appropriate mode of transport.

Most people don't buy TVs that often.

what_traffic

Iwannahurl wrote: »

What about proportionate inducements for shoppers who spend the same amount but who contribute nothing to traffic congestion (etc) by virtue of the fact that they walk, cycle or take the bus to the city?

Something like this?
http://www.blackpool.gov.uk/News/Articles/2013/August/New-discount-card-brings-savings-for-cyclists.aspx
or this
http://sf.streetsblog.org/2010/05/11/i-bike-sf-campaign-encourages-shopping-locally-by-bicycle/

galwaycyclist

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Most people don't buy TVs that often.

What is this "TV" of which you speak?

snubbleste

galwaycyclist wrote: »

What is this "TV" of which you speak?

It's in the new sex shop on Abbeygate St

Redhairedguy

snubbleste wrote: »

It's in the new sex shop on Abbeygate St

antoobrien

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Most people don't buy TVs that often.

Who mentioned tvs. There are a lot of things I buy regularly which are unwieldy.

Then there's the o.h.'s clothes shopping to consider.