Can I have EVERYONES opinion PLEASE

cathy01

Ok, those that are regular's on this board know that some days I'm a cranky Fecker that cant spell , however I really have a bee in my bonnet over this.

I have added(well I hope I have)
the application form to enrol in Ardgillan Community College.
I will be contacting the principal in relation to the questions but I would really value other peoples thoughts on it.

Questions ON the form include

Do you have a medical Card?

Family Circumstances :DEATH,SEPARATION,ADOPTION,UNEMPLOYMENT
ETC

Individual Problems: Absenteeism, Aggression, Disruptive, Over-Anxious, LONER etc.


This is along side other Health /Educational questions which are common, such as does your child has Asthma, Epilepsy.

Now I'm too long in the tooth to be blinded.
I understand provisions for children with special needs are sought before the child starts ,Special needs assistants , resource hours etc.

I cant for the life of me think why they need to know if your unemployed , and if your child is Disruptive, or a loner. These are not diagnostic values, they are opinions and I cant think what propose they serve only to help determine the calibre of students that the school will accept.
IS THAT BAD OF ME TO THINK.??
Regardless of the enrolment policy and equality policy Id like to know, by answering these questions what difference does it make to the application?

I don't want to get angry but I hate discrimination, I hate when people are asked to rate their kids for something that you cant do if your an adult. Its against the law to ask when you apply for a job if your an Aggressive, over-anxious loner.
Now I know, before anyone says it, they need to make provisions for children with special needs. This to me is a personality test. Oh I better stop now....
Schools should be about embracing differences, not labelling them before they even get a place in the school.
I don't mind blowing my top over this. I don't think the school has the right ethos to be suitable to teach my little girl

Stheno

The form actually says:

Please state any medical problems the child may have in relation to the illnesses, and then in relation to the broader information, says please check the following list and if there is a problem in any of the areas listed which you feel the school should know, please see the Deputy Principal when appointed in relation to family circumstances, educational problems, individual problems and health problems.

So to be honest, I don't really see an issue with it, if I had children and one e.g. was dyslexic or had Aspergers, or was shy, had recently had their parents split up, had been bullied etc, I'd want the school to be aware of it.

I read the form as the school giving parents the opportunity to communicate any concerns they may have in relation to their child so that the school could be aware of it and act appropriately? Nowhere on the form does it say that it is mandatory to provide the information, it clearly states that it's up to the parents if they feel there is something the school should know then they can discuss it with the deputy principal.

And in relation to it being against the law to ask in a job screening process if you are aggressive or a loner, I had to undertake a series of tests including a personality test, which were quite indepth, referred to the fact that I am a relatively shy person, and what techniques I displayed behaviourally during the test to overcome that natural shyness and tendancy to be quiet. (That's phrasing it nicely as well!)

There is nothing illegal with employers using such tests as a means of screening applicants.

wolfmoon87

You've just misread the form Cathy.

They're not asking you to tell them if you are unemployed, or if your child is shy or a loner etc.
They're just saying that if there are any problems that you think they should know about, for example, asthma, then you can let them know.

cathy01

Thanks all for the reply .i hate with all my being anyone been told they are less then the best. I hate anyone made to feel less important.i tell my kids if they want to be the president of Iteland they can be .now they can't organise their room let alone the country but its installed in them to be their best.i just found the relationship between behaviours and the word problem offensive .
Problems . Death separation , you know sometimes separation is a solution .thanks all for the feedback ill take it on board but I don't think ill be sending my daughter there. I want a school that asked
Do you want to learn ?
What can we do to help ?
That's it ? In an ideal world I know .thanks everyone .xx night

Stheno

cathy01 wrote: »

Thanks all for the reply .i hate with all my being anyone been told they are less then the best. I hate anyone made to feel less important.i tell my kids if they want to be the president of Iteland they can be .now they can't organise their room let alone the country but its installed in them to be their best.i just found the relationship between behaviours and the word problem offensive .
Problems . Death separation , you know sometimes separation is a solution .thanks all for the feedback ill take it on board but I don't think ill be sending my daughter there. I want a school that asked
Do you want to learn ?
What can we do to help ?
That's it ? In an ideal world I know .thanks everyone .xx night

Cathy, I genuinely think the school are making an effort to understand peoples circumstances and not isolate students by giving parents a choice to communicate what might be important to them.

To give you a real world comparison, I work as a trainer, and at the start of a course I ask my students for a brief introduction. Now I work with some very large companies, and when their students are on public courses I use that to build rapport with them, as I've worked with them in the past. It works both to make those from the companies I work with feel comfortable (sometimes they will tell me about others who have been on courses with me, and what they thought - usually positive, not like they are going to tell me they thought I was crap) and it kind of makes the rest of the class feel like I am a bit more invested than just teaching them how to pass an exam. If the people from the regular customers are happy to do so, I often involve them in the class and ask if they are happy to relate what we are discussing to how they do it in the real world, and it makes a HUGE difference to the class.

I'd see that form as the same type of approach to be honest, wanting to know as much as people are comfortable with to give them the best learning experience they can have.

On the flip side, I've regular students who cannot talk about their work due to non disclosure agreements and we work through that too.

Don't know if that's a help or not, but it might help to give you a different perspective.

E.g on that basis of that form, if someone is from a home where there is unemployment/medical card provision in place, then perhaps they will not be asked for extra "voluntary contributions", or if someone is from a home where Mum/Dad have split, they will not be asked to stand up to talk about their last family holiday.

Maybe I'm being simplistic and applying what we do in work in a different fashion though.

wolfmoon87

cathy01 wrote: »

Thanks all for the reply .i hate with all my being anyone been told they are less then the best. I hate anyone made to feel less important.i tell my kids if they want to be the president of Iteland they can be .now they can't organise their room let alone the country but its installed in them to be their best.i just found the relationship between behaviours and the word problem offensive .
Problems . Death separation , you know sometimes separation is a solution .thanks all for the feedback ill take it on board but I don't think ill be sending my daughter there. I want a school that asked
Do you want to learn ?
What can we do to help ?
That's it ? In an ideal world I know .thanks everyone .xx night

Wow! Cathy you are so missing the point of what the school are saying that it's not even funny.
It looks like a fairly standard application form to me. They've just added in an extra part that, put more simply, says "Is there anything else you would like us to know?"

You're getting your knickers in a twist over nothing here. But if you really don't want to send your daughter there because you are misunderstanding the form, then fire away.

cathy01

wolfmoon87 wrote: »

Wow! Cathy you are so missing the point of what the school are saying that it's not even funny.
It looks like a fairly standard application form to me. They've just added in an extra part that, put more simply, says "Is there anything else you would like us to know?"

You're getting your knickers in a twist over nothing here. But if you really don't want to send your daughter there because you are misunderstanding the form, then fire away.

And that's what makes boards so nice. We have different opinions, I ask questions and get answers to help me better understand why I feel the way I do and to get other peoples views on it.

My experience has led me to feel the way I do. Yours has given you your feeling on it. Its good that we can share our views.Thanks everyone for the polite replies, that respected how I felt and the lack of name calling was lovely.
Will I send my daughter there. I don't know. I will talk with the principal and see in general if I think she will progress there as much as she would in another school.
I know I'm funny about schools. I actually think its an illness.
I was looking for a place in a playschool, Years ago for my daughter now age 11 and didn't send her as I thought the temperature of the water in the taps was too hot.:rolleyes:
Like I said, I know I'm funny.:o
Again thanks all for sharing your thoughts, each one has provoked me to re evaluate my feelings and I'm still doing that.
Cathy xx

ps wolfman87(I'm not wearing any;))

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

wolfmoon87

Ok, well I just think you're being unfair to the school, when they are just trying to be helpful.
You saw some words on the page "unemployed" "seperation" "loner" etc and read imto something that wasn't there at all.

Dizzyblonde

Cathy, when I read your first post I was astonished by the questions on the form too. It's a long time since I had kids in school and things have changed a lot. Our eldest daughter had to do an interview when she was 11 in order to get a place in Loreto in Swords (separate to the one we did), and looking back that was very harsh.
But after reading other people's opinions I can see that I was jumping to conclusions and that maybe these are normal questions for schools nowadays.
I think you're right not to automatically send your son there without checking the ethos of the school, and if I were you I'd arrange a meeting with either the principal or vice principal in order to clear things up in your head.
I can well understand your standpoint given that you have a child with special needs. I also had to laugh when I read some of the questions because a lot of parents of the very aggressive and disruptive kids are hardly going to admit it on an enrollment application.

wolfmoon87

Dizzyblonde wrote: »

Cathy, when I read your first post I was astonished by the questions on the form too. It's a long time since I had kids in school and things have changed a lot. Our eldest daughter had to do an interview when she was 11 in order to get a place in Loreto in Swords (separate to the one we did), and looking back that was very harsh.
But after reading other people's opinions I can see that I was jumping to conclusions and that maybe these are normal questions for schools nowadays.
I think you're right not to automatically send your son there without checking the ethos of the school, and if I were you I'd arrange a meeting with either the principal or vice principal in order to clear things up in your head.
I can well understand your standpoint given that you have a child with special needs. I also had to laugh when I read some of the questions because a lot of parents of the very aggressive and disruptive kids are hardly going to admit it on an enrollment application.

They were not asking those questions though.
They just gave the option for parents to discuss any issues with them if they wanted to.

ElleEm

I think you are making mountains out of molehills.
I get the sense that the school are attempting to do a mini assessment to help them in their ability to cater for your child. Maybe the word 'problem' is the thing that has thrown you off.
I worked with kids at risk, and have had to complete many in- depth assessments of their holistic needs before I started working with them. Many would include things like their family history/ make- up, their social skills, behavioural issues, etc. In my case (and I guess the school in question), it allowed me and my colleagues to work better with the child. You wouldn't put your foot in it by asking about a parent who was estranged, if a child was marked as a 'loner', you may make more of an effort to gently integrate them with others, if a child had a history of disruptive behaviour, a person in charge would be more prepared to deal with arising issues, etc.
The school are asking these questions for a reason, and I guarantee than reason is not to alienate kids or upset the parents.

cathy01

Ill make appointment with the principal and get back to yous thanks all.

Stheno

Dizzyblonde wrote: »

Cathy, when I read your first post I was astonished by the questions on the form too. It's a long time since I had kids in school and things have changed a lot. Our eldest daughter had to do an interview when she was 11 in order to get a place in Loreto in Swords (separate to the one we did), and looking back that was very harsh.
But after reading other people's opinions I can see that I was jumping to conclusions and that maybe these are normal questions for schools nowadays.
I think you're right not to automatically send your son there without checking the ethos of the school, and if I were you I'd arrange a meeting with either the principal or vice principal in order to clear things up in your head.
I can well understand your standpoint given that you have a child with special needs. I also had to laugh when I read some of the questions because a lot of parents of the very aggressive and disruptive kids are hardly going to admit it on an enrollment application.

I train adults and we have a form for each attendee prior to a course that asks about special needs, be it dietary, mobility, handicap etc.

I've had students ranging from able bodied to those with dyslexia, dyscalculia, blindness and deafness and knowing about all of those beforehand, meant we were able to make their learning experience far better.

On the other hand, I once had a dyslexic student who omitted to tell us they were so, and due to requirements on behalf of the examining body were unable to get any additional assistance as they didn't have the time during the course to prove their dyslexia.

cathy01

Stheno wrote: »

I train adults and we have a form for each attendee prior to a course that asks about special needs, be it dietary, mobility, handicap ????????? what is this ????etc.

I've had students ranging from able bodied to those with dyslexia, dyscalculia, blindness and deafness and knowing about all of those beforehand, meant we were able to make their learning experience far better.

On the other hand, I once had a dyslexic student (student with dyslexia )who omitted to tell us they were so, and due to requirements on behalf of the examining body were unable to get any additional assistance as they didn't have the time during the course to prove their dyslexia.

A disability doesn't define the person.
I get what your saying but the term handicap is out dated .
It doesn't have a meaning.
It's just again showing how we see things differently .
My child is a third level BA student with ADHD not a ADHD person that has gone to college .
I really really really don't mean to sound like I'm going off on one but a disability shouldn't be the person.i understand provisions .BeLieve me , I'd say few would know the NCSE /Seno rules as I read them and update myself all the time .thanks for the reply .

Stheno

cathy01 wrote: »

A disability doesn't define the person.
I get what your saying but the term handicap is out dated .
It doesn't have a meaning.
It's just again showing how we see things differently .
My child is a third level BA student with ADHD not a ADHD person that has gone to college .
I really really really don't mean to sound like I'm going off on one but a disability shouldn't be the person.i understand provisions .BeLieve me , I'd say few would know the NCSE /Seno rules as I read them and update myself all the time .thanks for the reply .

As someone who until a year ago had no disability/handicap, I agree with you.

But as a result of an accident in work, I now have a handicap/disability which inhibits my ability to work in certain environments especially in terms of access and my ability to work in certain environments, so therefore I am handicapped in that I cannot access those environments without suffering severe pain, or an inability to work in those environments.

Getting my employer to recognise this has been pretty much futile as they don't see the effects of it on me, and the work I have to do to come into work after a day of trying to work in a disenabling environment.

I've repeatedly spoken to my employer about this, and will ultimately leave my current role as it makes me ill just doing my job due to where I do it.

If they were better able to accommodate me, I wouldn't leave.

Same as the form you are talking about, it's aiming to give students a better experience.

As for the term handicap versus disability, yes I do consider I have a handicap I'm not disabled, nor am I diminished as a person due to my handicap, but I am restricted in my abilities as a result of an accident, but not disabled, so I have a handicap normal people don't.

Sorry for the semantics.

I do think, having discoursed with you somewhat on this, that you are biased based on previous experience, and predujiced in that regard.

I'm not a person with a handicap/disability, I'm someone who is very highly qualified and highly regarded in my profession who due to a work accident is unable to be as mobile as others.

That's how I think of me, and how I expect my family/employer to think of me, so we are not exactly miles apart

Two of my siblings have recognised disabilities, and had their education adjusted as a result, one of my best friends has aspergers and had the same experience. All of them are younger than I am, so we have moved on in accepting handicap/disability in some regards, but not in others. I struggle now daily in a job which due to lack of recognition by my employer of my handicap/disability, I go home in pain regularly, which could fairly easily be remedied.

LeoB

Just stumbled on this thread now and just my observation,

What difference is it to the school whether someone is employed or not? Will the school cherry pick and give preference to the students who have parents who can pay? They might say no but I wonder.

The enrolement form does not really need all these questions. That information is available from feeder schools.

steneo Im not so sure I would be letting your employer off so easily. If you have a handicap/disability are they not obliged to ensure you are properly catered for? Have they contributed to your situation? Have you another job to go to?

LeoB

ElleEm wrote: »

I get the sense that the school are attempting to do a mini assessment to help them in their ability to cater for your child. Maybe the word 'problem' is the thing that has thrown you off.
I worked with kids at risk, and have had to complete many in- depth assessments of their holistic needs before I started working with them. Many would include things like their family history/ make- up, their social skills, behavioural issues, etc. In my case (and I guess the school in question), it allowed me and my colleagues to work better with the child. You wouldn't put your foot in it by asking about a parent who was estranged, if a child was marked as a 'loner', you may make more of an effort to gently integrate them with others, if a child had a history of disruptive behaviour, a person in charge would be more prepared to deal with arising issues, etc.
The school are asking these questions for a reason, and I guarantee than reason is not to alienate kids or upset the parents.

Are you comparing like with like? I dont think so. Children at risk is a very broad ranging area. This school has no need to know anything about a childs family history. This information can be got requesting a copy of childs report from 6th class, but bearing in mind the child might not have got on with their teacher in 6th. What if their dad was a bankrobber, Or convicted of some other serious crimes? That is none of the schools business and Im not so sure all schools would be welcoming. If there was a child who had their dad in a top job and a child who had their dad in trouble .............

Dizzyblonde wrote: »

Cathy, when I read your first post I was astonished by the questions on the form too. It's a long time since I had kids in school and things have changed a lot. Our eldest daughter had to do an interview when she was 11 in order to get a place in Loreto in Swords (separate to the one we did), and looking back that was very harsh. .

What your child was put through was cherry picking at its best. Its scandelous how some of these schools got their students, but someone had to pay for the lifestyle of the people at the helm. People can travel for 30 or 40 minutes to school but a local could not get a place. Thankfully its changing

Dizzyblonde wrote: »

But after reading other people's opinions I can see that I was jumping to conclusions and that maybe these are normal questions for schools nowadays.
I think you're right not to automatically send your son there without checking the ethos of the school, and if I were you I'd arrange a meeting with either the principal or vice principal in order to clear things up in your head.
I can well understand your standpoint given that you have a child with special needs. I also had to laugh when I read some of the questions because a lot of parents of the very aggressive and disruptive kids are hardly going to admit it on an enrollment application.

Fully agree here. Arrange a meeting and Ask questions, as many as you can think of. Its also very important schools understand parents of children with special needs or extra requirements wont be pushed over as has often been the case in the past and will only accept what is right for the child. They are not there for schools to reach quotas for sna and other payments that can be claimed for by schools.

tatli_lokma

I don't see what the fuss is. There is no obligation to answer. Also the medical card question is probably so that in case of emergency, if a pupil had to be sent to hospital or a doctor, the school could advise in advance of the medical card and reduce any hassle for the parents of getting a bill for a government health levy and then have to contact to hospital to advise of the medical card.

I would imagine that an educate together school would be much more accommodating and inclusive than a religious school. For a start a religious school might ask your beliefs on certain issues. I know of a parent who was asked how often they attend mass and their opinion regarding abortion!! :eek:

cathy01

tatli_lokma wrote: »

I don't see what the fuss is. There is no obligation to answer. Also the medical card question is probably so that in case of emergency, if a pupil had to be sent to hospital or a doctor, the school could advise in advance of the medical card and reduce any hassle for the parents of getting a bill for a government health levy and then have to contact to hospital to advise of the medical card.

I would imagine that an educate together school would be much more accommodating and inclusive than a religious school. For a start a religious school might ask your beliefs on certain issues. I know of a parent who was asked how often they attend mass and their opinion regarding abortion!! :eek:

You have GOT to be jokeing ?
I feel why the hell do they want to k ow and I believe yes it's to cherry pick.
No school should care if you have a medical card if the child is sick enough to go to hospital then money doesn't or should t come into it .
I think that schools will view such information for two reasons
1 are the kids too much Hassel or
2 will we take this child on as we get extra funding resource teacher and an SNA that can be take. And give to a child that doesn't qualify because the dept of health / education haven't properly assessed the child .
My years of experiance has led to to this conclusion.sorry but that's true .
When my daughter is better ill go and talk and update on the general feedback from the school . Just to be polite:-)

tatli_lokma

No I'm not joking and I'm entitled to my opinion just as you are yours. Not everyone with a medical card is unemployed? Why would having a medical card make you more hassle? Seems to me the only one judging and placing stereotypes here is you. The questions are optional. You don't have to answer, so how is that conducive to cherry picking

I am actually tired of hearing people moan 'but the school did nothing/never noticed that my child had difficulties' or when a problem does occur then gets annoyed because they feel the school 'should' have known the family circumstances. Yet here is a school actively trying to ensure they have as full a picture as they can and they get criticised?

Cathy you can't claim discrimination positive or otherwise or cherry picking until you see the outcome of the enrollment. If you had some figures that proved that the school was being unethical and asking these questions to cherry pick and get extra funding then that would be one thing. But on the basis of a form it is very unfair of you to be so harsh on the school as you simply don't know, you are just assuming. You might want to be cautious about the claimswyou make because if I was the principal and was accused of such underhanded tactics as you allude to I wouldn't allow that to go unchecked.

tatli_lokma

Also by your logic Cathy, you should leave surnames and addresses off any enrollment forms, because we all know that people from certain parts of the town or from certain families tend to be too much hassle! But wait those parts of the form are NOT optional, and yet it's the parts that are optional that are the problem! Shocker

cathy01

I can only imagine my reaction if I was asked how often I attend mass.
My son was baptised catholic ,went to a church of Ireland school , decided to go to baptist/Methodist church and is now doing a BA in religious studies. :-)

So my many Sunday mornings not going to mass paid off.
I thank you again for your thoughts.
And when I said you have to joking I didn't mean it literaly.
Like I said I will talk to the school .
Thanks cathy

LeoB

tatli_lokma wrote: »

I don't see what the fuss is. There is no obligation to answer. Also the medical card question is probably so that in case of emergency, if a pupil had to be sent to hospital or a doctor, the school could advise in advance of the medical card and reduce any hassle for the parents of getting a bill for a government health levy and then have to contact to hospital to advise of the medical card.

It is no business of the school if someone has a medical card or not. They have no right or need to ask that question. If there is a medical emergency the school should know who the family doctor is and that's it. If the child has asthma or something. If the child needs to go to A & E there is still no need for the school to know if they have a medical card. Would you phone ahead and say child with medical card on the way, might have a broken leg

tatli_lokma wrote: »

I would imagine that an educate together school would be much more accommodating and inclusive than a religious school. For a start a religious school might ask your beliefs on certain issues. I know of a parent who was asked how often they attend mass and their opinion regarding abortion!! :eek:

Why would Ed together be more accommodating and inclusive? spoke to 2 families who are removing their these schools. My children all went to a catholic school and the Muslims in their class all took part to an extent in religious affairs and ceremonies out of respect for our catholic and christian ethos. There beliefs were never questioned and they appreciated the chance to play a role in communion and conformation, respecting our ways was how one parent put it to me. But this leads to whole different discussion on our education system and Mr. Quinn giving Ed Together schools plenty of money instead of properly funding what is there. But I can't really say things like that in Ireland today.

As for the last thing about abortion and attending mass the answer would have been very simple "thats a private matter" end of.

Cassady23

demographics

LonelyBug

LeoB wrote: »

Why would Ed together be more accommodating and inclusive? spoke to 2 families who are removing their these schools. My children all went to a catholic school and the Muslims in their class all took part to an extent in religious affairs and ceremonies out of respect for our catholic and christian ethos. There beliefs were never questioned and they appreciated the chance to play a role in communion and conformation, respecting our ways was how one parent put it to me. But this leads to whole different discussion on our education system and Mr. Quinn giving Ed Together schools plenty of money instead of properly funding what is there. But I can't really say things like that in Ireland today.

I'm sorry, I know this is probably off-topic, but there is a shift in public attitudes away from Church run school systems being funded by the State. Educate Together schools should get more funding from the State as they need to increase in number compared to religious schools and they are more inclusive to students who are not of the Christian/Catholic faith. Personally, religion in schools should not be funded by the State. If you want your children to go to a religious school then let the Church provide all of the funds. They can teach their religion all they want. Muslim children having to attend Catholic schools probably has more to do with the lack of an alternative than them wanting to be involved in "our ways" (The whole tone of that disgusts me, btw)

Cathy01, I see no problem with those questions being asked. The school is going to be dealing with your child for a substantial part of their life. It is important for the school to know what the home situation is. A separation between parents is not always amicable and if the school are aware of this they can ensure that information from the school gets to both parents separately. If the child is from a family with unemployed parents then they will be aware of the economic pressures on that family and can act accordingly when appropriate. If the child has any special needs or behavioural issues the school should absolutely be aware of it to ensure that the child gets the required level of attention/help in school.

To even suggest that this form would be used to cherry-pick students is ridiculous and yourself and others are reading way too much into it.

tatli_lokma

LeoB wrote: »

It is no business of the school if someone has a medical card or not. They have no right or need to ask that question. If there is a medical emergency the school should know who the family doctor is and that's it. If the child has asthma or something. If the child needs to go to A & E there is still no need for the school to know if they have a medical card. Would you phone ahead and say child with medical card on the way, might have a broken leg

My neighbour got a call a few weeks back from her childminder because her little lad had fallen and needed stitches. My friend was in work so the childminder said she would bring him to the hospital and my friend met them there. Then the childminder thought, hang on temple street is miles away and we'll probably be waiting hours. The childminder had the family's VHI policy number so phoned the swiftcare clinic in swords and was able to bring him there instead.

How is this comparable? Well imagine a child needs to go to hospital because they break like leg. They get accompanied by a teacher and the parents meet them at the hospital. The accompanying adult can advise the hospital of the medical card number, meaning one less thing for stressed parents to worry about. Otherwise if the teacher doesn't have that information the hospital have to issue an invoice for the government levy and the parents need to ring the hospital later and provide proof of medical card

So that is a practical use of the information. Having a medical card, or being unemployed, or separated, or whatever is nothing to be ashamed of. If you would prefer not to divulge such information that is your prerogative. But I don't understand the indignant responses to being asked if you would like to give the information.

LeoB wrote: »

Why would Ed together be more accommodating and inclusive? spoke to 2 families who are removing their these schools. My children all went to a catholic school and the Muslims in their class all took part to an extent in religious affairs and ceremonies out of respect for our catholic and christian ethos. There beliefs were never questioned and they appreciated the chance to play a role in communion and conformation, respecting our ways was how one parent put it to me. But this leads to whole different discussion on our education system and Mr. Quinn giving Ed Together schools plenty of money instead of properly funding what is there. But I can't really say things like that in Ireland today.

As for the last thing about abortion and attending mass the answer would have been very simple "thats a private matter" end of.

This attitude amazes me. Ah sure the non-Christians don't mind having to go to school in a Catholic school and take part in our traditions. What a load of rubbish. As another poster said it's probably got more to do with availability of alternatives than a desire to go to a religious school. A Muslim child shouldn't have to participate in 'our' ways in order to get an education.


And from my understanding of SNA availability from a close friend who's daughter has a disability, it is much harder to get funded for one than simply providing a medical card number. I can't fathom how the link has been made between the questions asked in the form and some conspiracy to get SNA's for pupils who don't need them whilst those that do go without help. I can't see what benefit that would be to the school whatsoever.

cathy01

tatli_lokma wrote: »

My neighbour got a call a few weeks back from her childminder because her little lad had fallen and needed stitches. My friend was in work so the childminder said she would bring him to the hospital and my friend met them there. Then the childminder thought, hang on temple street is miles away and we'll probably be waiting hours. The childminder had the family's VHI policy number so phoned the swiftcare clinic in swords and was able to bring him there instead.

How is this comparable? Well imagine a child needs to go to hospital because they break like leg. They get accompanied by a teacher and the parents meet them at the hospital. The accompanying adult can advise the hospital of the medical card number, meaning one less thing for stressed parents to worry about. Otherwise if the teacher doesn't have that information the hospital have to issue an invoice for the government levy and the parents need to ring the hospital later and provide proof of medical card

So that is a practical use of the information. Having a medical card, or being unemployed, or separated, or whatever is nothing to be ashamed of. If you would prefer not to divulge such information that is your prerogative. But I don't understand the indignant responses to being asked if you would like to give the information.



This attitude amazes me. Ah sure the non-Christians don't mind having to go to school in a Catholic school and take part in our traditions. What a load of rubbish. As another poster said it's probably got more to do with availability of alternatives than a desire to go to a religious school. A Muslim child shouldn't have to participate in 'our' ways in order to get an education.


And from my understanding of SNA availability from a close friend who's daughter has a disability, it is much harder to get funded for one than simply providing a medical card number. I can't fathom how the link has been made between the questions asked in the form and some conspiracy to get SNA's for pupils who don't need them whilst those that do go without help. I can't see what benefit that would be to the school whatsoever.

What CAN HAPPEN in SOME schools is
A child is identiofied as having some type of special need , the child is assessed and and a full time/Part time SNA may be given.
The roll of the SNA includes doing some filing paper work etc as well as looking after the child she/he was assigned to .However, the SNA is not given to the school for that child, they are just given tot he school, so the school decides then how best to use the resource. If they have a child that has not yet been through the process of getting the assessment , which can take anything up to two years , often the SNA is taken and given to supervise that child.
so I have seen cases where schools have pushed for SNA for a child only to have the child put on reduced hours while the SNA is still full time and given to help in another classroom.
That's the link.
I know its off topic but I wanted to tell you the link. Thanks, cathy

tatli_lokma

Cathy, even allowing that the situation you describe is accurate, it still does not provide any link between asking if someone has a medical card or is unemployed and the availability of an SNA. The allocation of SNA's is a flawed system, I agree with you there. But I can't see how a school can get extra SNA's or be allowed to move an SNA to a different child on the basis of the child having a medical card or their parents being unemployed. If it is based upon reasoned consideration that one child has more need for it than another and has been assessed as such then that is fair enough, but the presence of a medical card or otherwise is irrelevant to the situation.

cathy01

tatli_lokma wrote: »

Cathy, even allowing that the situation you describe is accurate, it still does not provide any link between asking if someone has a medical card or is unemployed and the availability of an SNA. The allocation of SNA's is a flawed system, I agree with you there. But I can't see how a school can get extra SNA's or be allowed to move an SNA to a different child on the basis of the child having a medical card or their parents being unemployed. If it is based upon reasoned consideration that one child has more need for it than another and has been assessed as such then that is fair enough, but the presence of a medical card or otherwise is irrelevant to the situation.

I never referred to the SNA been linked to having a medical card?

I cant see why any school would need to know this information.

I don't like the relationship been created by saying PROBLEM=UNEMPLOYMENT
PROBLEM = LOANER
ETC.
Its the identification of a situation as been a problem.
MAYBE ITS NOT.

I don't see why a school cant just say
if you have concerns in relation to your child talk to us.

ElleEm

cathy01 wrote: »

I never referred to the SNA been linked to having a medical card?

I cant see why any school would need to know this information.

I don't like the relationship been created by saying PROBLEM=UNEMPLOYMENT
PROBLEM = LOANER
ETC.
Its the identification of a situation as been a problem.
MAYBE ITS NOT.

I don't see why a school cant just say
if you have concerns in relation to your child talk to us.

With risk of being rude, Cathy, you just need to get over it. They used a word that you deemed inappropriate/ incorrect. As I said in my previous post, they did not do this to alienate people. Move past it. Getting hung up on something so small is not good for you.

cathy01

ElleEm wrote: »

With risk of being rude, Cathy, you just need to get over it. They used a word that you deemed inappropriate/ incorrect. As I said in my previous post, they did not do this to alienate people. Move past it. Getting hung up on something so small is not good for you.

I'm just replying to the posts.
If I ignored them Id be rude.
I'm not hung up, on anything.
Thanks for your concern though.:D

cathy01

Ill ask the mod to close the thread for fear of repeating myself.

LonelyBug

cathy01 wrote: »

I never referred to the SNA been linked to having a medical card?

I cant see why any school would need to know this information.

I don't like the relationship been created by saying PROBLEM=UNEMPLOYMENT
PROBLEM = LOANER
ETC.
Its the identification of a situation as been a problem.
MAYBE ITS NOT.

I don't see why a school cant just say
if you have concerns in relation to your child talk to us.

Hang on a second Cathy. This might not be something you want to hear, but a child being deemed a loner can be problematic in secondary school for the child. By being aware of this from the get go the school can keep a watchful eye on the situation to try to ensure the child is doing ok in school.

Similarly, the parents being unemployed can be problematic for the child. What about school trips or other extracirricular activities that require extra money that the parents might not have? If the school is aware of the economic restraints on a family they could be more sensitive to that child's situation.

Quite frankly Cathy you are being hypersensitive and seeing offence where none is intended.

wolfmoon87

cathy01 wrote: »

Ill ask the mod to close the thread for fear of repeating myself.

Are you not going to get back to us on what the principal has to say on it?

cathy01

wolfmoon87 wrote: »

Are you not going to get back to us on what the principal has to say on it?

Yes but would mind waiting till I recover from Shock of learning my child may never walk right again.just wait till dust developes on her wheelchair.

Hypersensitive ?

No experienced .yes most definitely .

cathy01

LonelyBug wrote: »

Hang on a second Cathy. This might not be something you want to hear, but a child being deemed a loner can be problematic in secondary school for the child. By being aware of this from the get go the school can keep a watchful eye on the situation to try to ensure the child is doing ok in school.

Similarly, the parents being unemployed can be problematic for the child. What about school trips or other extracirricular activities that require extra money that the parents might not have? If the school is aware of the economic restraints on a family they could be more sensitive to that child's situation.

Quite frankly Cathy you are being hypersensitive and seeing offence where none is intended.

Name calling???? Mods please close the thread before I say something I really want to but know I shouldn't .

ElleEm

cathy01 wrote: »

Name calling???? Mods please close the thread before I say something I really want to but know I shouldn't .

I think he/ she was referring to your child!

cathy01

ElleEm wrote: »

I think he/ she was referring to your child!

Sorry I don't understand who was referring to my child.

ElleEm

cathy01 wrote: »

Sorry I don't understand who was referring to my child.

I thought you bolded the "the child" bit. Apologies. And I don't know that saying you appear hypersensitive is name calling. It is an observation based on your writing and tone.

Edit: sorry to read that about your child.

Dizzyblonde

I'm closing this thread at the OP's request.

The Hill Billy

This thread was closed at the request of the OP in agreement with the Moderators. Closed - end of!

Any further attempts by posters to continue this via PM with the OP will be considered harassment & the matter will be reported to the site Administrators for further action.

tHB