Starting to resent my friends

LegacyUser

I'm going unreg for this. Not sure if PI or RI is the best place, mods please move as you feel appropriate.

The TL;DR version: Friends owe us money, I resent them for it

The long version:

My wife and I are close friends with her cousin and her husband. We normally see them a few times a week, the odd time we go out together or, more often, stay in for drinks and a film with them. I'd like to emphasise that in the past they've been very good to us and I (used to) genuinely enjoy their company. However, circumstances have changed and I'm finding myself getting angry with them over small things, and even things that may not be their fault.

A BIG factor in this is that they owe us quite a bit of money (in the region of €2k). It's around a year since we loaned it to them and there has been no mention of them paying us back or even an acknowledgement that the debt is there. It's completely ignored, both by them and my wife. We aren't wealthy - we only had the money to lend from a small insurance settlement I got - but normally I try not to let money come between me and my friends and anyway, the arrangement was that they'd start paying us back last January. January came and went and nothing was ever mentioned.

However, our circumstances have changed. I'm now on JSA and I only bring in €100 a week from that. Our financial situation isn't great, but we just manage to get by. I know them paying that money back wouldn't change our lives, but it's OUR money. I know that their household income has taken a hit in the last few months as well, but once in a while they'll buy themselves stuff like PS3 games or groupons for nights away or meals and every.single.time. I hear about that I think "that's €50 you could have given to us" or "I'd love to be able to go out for a nice meal, but we just can't afford it". I feel ashamed of myself because it's not like they should have to live like paupers, but then I feel angry because I was always raised to service my debts first, and although money is very tight with us I'm proud of the fact that we don't owe a penny to anyone. I get very jealous when they go on their nights away and stuff like because I want those things. I probably sound like a child who wants someone else's toys, and I'm deeply ashamed of that. But I can't help but feel like it's my money that they're spending and that, even though they're not, they're sort of rubbing our faces in it.

It also really annoys me that if they use one of their sister's credit cards to book something online, they pay her back within the month. She gets paid back, but we don't. I feel like they're saying "Ah, sure they can do without, they'll be alright".

I know that some of you are reading this and thinking "Why don't you just say it to them?" Because it's my wife's cousin I really feel like it's her place to do so and not mine. I've said it to her a few times and we've fallen out every time it's mentioned because she just doesn't want to ask for the money and when I say that I'll do it she goes off on a mad one and says that it's not right for me to do it because it's her family and they can't afford to pay us back now anyway. I don't even talk about it with her any more because it's not worth the argument. We generally communicate very well but she seems completely blinkered when it comes to her family (I guess we all are sometimes).

Another thing is that they always assume that me and my wife have nothing better to do but to do favours for them. I know these things wouldn't even come up on my radar if it wasn't for the money thing. For example, the cousin doesn't drive and her husband does but rather than getting her husband to bring her to the shops she'll always wait for us to call in and then get my wife to bring her. Or she'll want to go somewhere and ask us for a lift rather than getting her husband to take her in their car, but she'll never throw us a fiver for petrol even though it could be an hour's drive there and back. Or since I'm unemployed they think I do nothing all day, so they're always asking if I can mind their baby while they go off to do things. I know I have no job, but I keep myself very busy (I spend a lot of time putting together quality cover letters and cvs rather than firing off the same thing to every job, I do the majority of the housework, I get all the shopping done, I set myself little projects to do every week) and it just really bothers me that they'll call with a half hour notice to ask if I can babysit. I've started saying no or telling them that they haven't given me enough notice and that I'm busy, but that always leads to "What are you doing?" and if I say "I'm busy applying for jobs" or "I'm trying to get the housework done" they'll say "Sure your wife won't mind if you don't get that done until tomorrow". Never mind that I want to get those things done. I like setting goals for my day and achieving them, even if they're as mundane as cleaning the bathroom. I think it's important for people in my position to do that, but they don't seem to have any such ambitions or even understand that I like to be able to say that I did x, y and z with my day and didn't just sit in front of the playstation.

So anyway, this has turned out a lot longer and angrier than I intended. Believe it or not I'm generally a very cheerful and happy person. It takes a lot to get me down but this situation has really gotten to me.

What I'm looking for is this:

1. Is there a way that I can bring up the money situation without causing an absolute sh1tstorm, both with them and my wife?
2. Should I stop focussing on this money and accept that it's gone?
3. I actually miss their friendship but I can't seem to get past this issue. I don't want to end up causing a huge rift, especially since they're also family. Any tips on how to build a bridge and get over it?

meoklmrk91

How's about "here any chance ye want to start paying back that sizeable sum of money I was kind enough to lend ye". Some people might say it's only money and to leave it off, I think they are insane. Even if you take the money out of the equation it still stinks of disrespect that they have treated you like SVP and haven't even made an attempt to pay you back. For me it would be far more about that than the money.

You have some patience, I certainly wouldn't have been able to keep my mouth shut. I would be bringing it up to them, can't believe your wife doesn't seem to have an issue with this. If they throw a hissy fit I would make it my business to spread the fact that they are thieves throughout the family and local area.

I learnt this lesson long ago, albeit I was only down around €150, you cannot trust the vast majority of people when it comes to money, do not give loans, do not take loans, it makes it far easier and cleaner.

If you want to be passive aggressive about it you could just make up a story about how your brother or someone owes you €50 and it drives you insane when people don't give back money they owe, how you would never do it and you find it really disrespectful etc. Go off on the tangent next time cousin and hubby are over. I would personally not bother though and just be upfront about it.

Oh and next time they ask you to put something off to mind their kid and say that your wife won't mind if you don't do it until tomorrow, say "no, she won't, but I will" and see how they take that. You need to start putting up some boundaries with these people, they are taking advantage, left, right and centre.

Oryx

It's completely ignored, both by them and my wife.

This is your problem. If you want your money back, then ask for it. There doesnt need to be bad feeling, but if there is, thats more about them, than you.

Hopefully if you resolve this issue, the smaller things will niggle you less.

Big Bag of Chips

Your wife is partly right. It is her family, so she should be the one to handle it. BUT if she won't handle it, then there is no reason for you not to.

Next time they are over bring it up. Even say it to the husband instead of to both of them.

It's a horrible feeling to feel you are being taken advantage of, and that is exactly what is happening here. If you were working, what would they do with their child? Probably bring her with them, like most other people have to.

Start saying "No", and meaning it.

They are taking advantage of you, and your wife is disregarding your feelings ahead of theirs.

LegacyUser

it's a tough one, op. i understand where you're coming from when you say you don't want to cause a big rift, but by the same token, you all made an agreement that the money would start to be paid back in january, this is the end of september. if they'd have gotten a loan out there'd be interest to pay and the threatening letters would be in the door, but you and your wife aren't a bank, and you and your wife need the money. never mind need, the money is YOURS.

if i was in your situation i'd have one more sit down with your wife and lay it all out on the table, just stick to the simple fact that they agreed to start paying you back 9 months ago, you've let it slide long enough. allow her one more chance to bring it up with them, within an agreed timeframe, and if it's not sorted by then you're going to ask them for it. think back on what her reasoning for turning it into an argument is, and be prepared. if she says they can't afford it right now, that's a perfect opportunity to bring up their weekend away and nights out. if she says they're family, well family should treat each other with a bit more respect. if she says she's embarassed to bring it up with them, well then you take the lead.

does she just not notice they're spending money that could be paying you two back instead? did your wife go behind your back and agree something else with them do you think? my husband did that to us once and it took me a long time to forgive him and we no longer talk to, or about, the person involved. lending money to friends and family rarely works out.

as for the expectations they put on you for favours, you just have to stand up to it. ''can you babysit today'' ''no, sorry, i can't today''. ''will you drive me to the shop'' ''no, not today, maybe you can wait till your husband gets home''. stop it in it's tracks. don't feel you have to justify what you spend your time doing, as the more you try and justify it the more amunition you give them to ridicule it and dismiss it. it's frankly none of their business what you do all day! if you don't have the time to stop what you're in the middle of doing, then tough cookies for them. let them sort out their own childcare issues and work her shopping arrangements to suit when her husband is around with the car.

there's a fine line between doing favours for someone and them being reciprocated and it all being amicable, and being taken for a ride and feeling bad about it. it sounds like you need to re-draw that line, best of luck with it.

pharmaton

Personally I'd start accepting that the money is gone and be done with it. I'd probably grieve a little, go through the motions and feel angry with them but eventually I'd accept it and try to move on. Sounds like you're not far off that op. I'd never lend them so much as a breath of air again though and I'd make sure I was never available for any other requests they have.

ABajaninCork

pharmaton wrote: »

Personally I'd start accepting that the money is gone and be done with it. I'd probably grieve a little, go through the motions and feel angry with them but eventually I'd accept it and try to move on. I'd never lend them so much as a breath of air again though and I'd make sure I was never available for any other requests they have.

Sorry, but I can't agree with this. 2k is a LOT of money to people these days, and the OP and his family cannot afford to lose that kind of dough, especially as he is now unemployed.

I think the time has now come for the OP and his wife to have a serious chat. I cannot understand why his wife is so reluctant to ask for the money back. I understand this is family and you have to approach the issue with some tact, but the cousins have shown neither tact nor understanding of the OP's position.

I would point out to the wife, that the money will help with the family finances. If the cousins cannot pay it back in one hit, then take payments -maybe E100 monthly. That seems to be affordable as they can pay for treats/Groupon deals...

And I would not be doing any more favours for them. They are taking the p1ss and they know it.

pharmaton

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Sorry, but I can't agree with this. 2k is a LOT of money to people these days, and the OP and his family cannot afford to lose that kind of dough, especially as he is now unemployed.

I think the time has now come for the OP and his wife to have a serious chat. I cannot understand why his wife is so reluctant to ask for the money back. I understand this is family and you have to approach the issue with some tact, but the cousins have shown neither tact nor understanding of the OP's position.

I would point out to the wife, that the money will help with the family finances. If the cousins cannot pay it back in one hit, then take payments -maybe E100 monthly. That seems to be affordable as they can pay for treats/Groupon deals...

And I would not be doing any more favours for them. They are taking the p1ss and they know it.

it's less about the money and more about dealing with the feelings of resentment. 2k is a lot of money and if he allows it to it will eat into his relationship with his wife and family. I'd rather make a move on dealing with how it would make me feel if I were in that situation, I did state it's how I would deal with it personally. Rule number 1, never loan family money. (in fact never loan anyone money)

Xidu

Wow, it's not €20. It's €2k. How could they not even mention it. And also taking advantage from people like that constantly?! Do they have any shame! If they can't afford to pay back then at least owe OP an explanation.

I think OP should text to them, cause its hard to say it face to face. Tell them you lost job and you have finance trouble, hope they can pay back weekly.

Teyla Emmagan

I think you're right for feeling angry OP, I would too, none of us like to be taken for granted, and that's what they're doing. They're possibly just thoughtless, and carelessly ignorant, but you should call them on it. Speak to your wife first and then have it out. 2k is a lot of money, and it was a loan, not a gift. They should at least be trying to pay you, even in small supplements.

There is a respect deficit here. Just because you are family doesn't mean you are not entitled to courtesy and they're not showing you any gratitude or acknowledgement by what you're saying - not just about the money, but in relation to all the other little things. I would be raging too if anyone treated me like this. They sound like total users.

Icaras

My advise is a bit manipulative so if you are going to follow it think it through 100%.

In your situation I would aim to have as little dealings as possible with the cousin and husband, if they ask for a favour just say no, when they ask for a reason tell them to ask your wife and be 100% firm with this - if they keep pestering keep telling them they need to talk to your wife. Id be civil and polite but if they look for anything just say no. This will result in either they will stop annoying you or they will start talking about the loan and try and reach a resolution. If your wife confronts you about it just explain to her you want as little dealings as possible with them because of the debt. In short play the martyr.

A random thought though; is it possible your wife has settled the debt i.e. drunkenly telling them not to worry about paying it back, crashed the car and used the money to get it fixed up without you knowing, paid off one of hers or your debts that you have forgotten about, just spent the money on something stupid - I imagine this is not likely but do try and consider every possible option before you act because really at the end of this one way or the other you will never be close friends again.

LegacyUser

Thanks for the advice everyone. I'm on my phone so quoting is really hard, but I appreciate what everyone has said.

I think the reason that my wife finds it so hard to say something to them is because she's a very kind-hearted and generous person and I feel that her family in general take advantage of her in a lot of ways. I raised this with her before any of this ever happened and it really upset her. She says she just likes to help people, which I think is a lovely and noble way to think and it's one of the things I love about her, but we live in the real world and the fact is that people do take advantage of her good nature and her family expect her to do everything for them but they don't support her in the same way. So this thing with the money is like a piece of a larger puzzle, if you get me.

That said, I think ye're right and it's time to have another talk with her. I have absolutely no problem being the one to do the talking, I just haven't done it so far because my wife has asked me not to. I know exactly what she'll say ("Oh, but it's coming up to Christmas, we couldn't ask now") but this really has gone on long enough and something needs to be said.

I'm actually with Pharmaton on the forgetting about the money thing. Yes, it's a LOT of money and no, we really can't afford to just write it off, but there is more to life and I don't want to isolate my wife from her family or cause a lot of ill feeling. I guess I kind of accept that I will never feel that close friendship with them again but unless they agree to start paying us back I'm gonna have to let it go or this will fester and grow until it's something I can't hide. The next forty years of family gatherings is a long time to carry that around.

implausible

Another passive-aggressive way of dealing with it would be to come up with a story that requires you needing the 2k back in a "I hate to ask, but we really need that money we lent you" sort of way - a course to upskill for example. You could also start being more vocal about how tight things are or talk about the money to people/family who might mention it back to them and embarrass them into returning it or at least talking to you about it.

If you let this go, the resentment will grow and eventually the friendship and money will disappear.

Oregano_State

Your wife's line about Christmas coming could be applied to any time of the year, birthdays, weddings etc. Sit down with her and talk her through your feelings on this with her. I would stress the respect part more than the money, these people need to realise that their current behaviours cannot go ahead indefinitely.

You say that you wouldn't notice all the "small things" if it wasn't for the money, but for me, having to justify to someone on a regular basis why I am unable to drop everything and look after their beloved offspring is worse. It sounds like they are walking all over you and your wife at the moment, and if I were you, I would raise this with them as soon as possible. It will be awkward, but ultimately worth the effort, if even just to be able to look yourself in the face in the morning and be able to say that you're nobody's doormat.

I have a friend who borrowed about 150 quid off my girlfriend (long story, I would never have lent him the money) a couple of years back, promising to repay straight away. Naturally, this didn't transpire. After giving him a couple of months leeway with no mention of the debt on his part, I had to sit him down and tell him what needed to happen. I got the money back after that, but honestly still harbour significant resentment towards him over it . Despite this, I don't see it as a loss, but a life experience.

Best of luck. Act swiftly.

Supraman

If I was in your position op ; id pull hubby aside for a quiet word . Say you don't want to fall out over money but you need the 2k back .. if not at once at least in decent instalments .

It's gone on so long they are hoping you'll be too ashamed to ask or to cross your wife . 2k is a holiday ffs for you and the missus with a few bob for beers , vino and steaks . It's not hiding down the back of the couch .

LegacyUser

OP first if all best of luck with with getting a new job, you definitely have your priorities right.
There is not a chance in hell that I would let the money go, first of all 2000 is nearly 6 months if your job seekers allowance , secondly they and you both know that they owe this debt. You mention about writing off the debt as don't want to cause bad feeling however I guarantee you thus will always be in your mind and you will never feel really comfortable.

They have behaved appallingly in not at least acknowledging that the payments were meant to start in January. You and your wife let them away with it n they have stuck their heads in the sand. They pay their sister back after the holiday because they have to , whereas you and your wife are acting as a soft touch.

I would go out for a pint with the husband and say up straight that you don't to get the money back preferably in a lump sum or at lest in sizeable installments through a direct debit. Please do not offer any excuses, you do not have to be rude but this is YOUR money . You are allowing them the opportunity to clear their debt.

Write it off n down the line you will be very angry at them and resentful to your wife.

Best of luck OP, I am rooting for you

MistyCheese

OP I understand exactly about seeing your spouse be good to their family while getting no respect in return. I wonder if maybe, possibly, your wife has already said to her cousin to not bother paying back the debt.

Hopefully not as it wouldn't be up to her alone to offer that but I can see the cousin coming up with some kind of sob story and your wife being (too) nice and saying not to worry about the 2k. That could also be why she's insistant on you not saying anything to them.

Good luck with your chat, hope you both can keep it as calm as possible because family can be such a hot button, emotive topic. It'll be hard to resolve anything with the both of you shouting at each other.

Merkin

I would be puce to the heels of my boots if I owed 2k to someone and was brazen enough to not even acknowledge it :eek:

I think they sound like a pair of complete spongers to be honest so unless you face this head on I don't think either of them are suddenly going to develop a decency gene - their behaviour to date has clearly demonstrated that they see your wife as a soft touch (which she blatantly is).

I would bring this up with the husband directly. Your wife has not supported you in this and if you have any hope of getting it back then it's to broach it with him and confront the issue head-on. Tell them your finances are at crisis point and that you now desperately need the money. I wouldn't be dragging it out over €100 a month either.....tell them 4 installments of €500 will be fine and I'd also get it in writing.

m'lady

I agree with the previous posters suggesting you sit the husband down and tell him that you need this money back, accepting no excuses at all.

However I have to say my first thought when I read the op ( and I know another poster asked this too) could your wife have received the money off them and perhaps used it for something..? It just seems extraordinary that they haven't mentioned this at all and are openly flaunting their spending!

Koptain Liverpool

pharmaton wrote: »

Personally I'd start accepting that the money is gone and be done with it. I'd probably grieve a little, go through the motions and feel angry with them but eventually I'd accept it and try to move on. Sounds like you're not far off that op. I'd never lend them so much as a breath of air again though and I'd make sure I was never available for any other requests they have.

Complete nonsense. Don't listen to this OP.
Too many people give this sort of advice in these threads about money owed and while sometimes it might be thew best idea to forget it and move on this does not apply here.
For one it is a substantial sum of money - it's different than writing off a bad debt of €50.
And secondly this is the OPs family. If he just let's it go his resentment will fester for years and will ultimately cause serious problems for his relationship with his wife's cousin.

Just be grown up about it OP. Pull them aside for a chat and explain calmly and clearly that you need paying back. Give specific dates in this regard and get their assurance rather than vague commitments.

And in relation to their constantly expecting you to do them favors just start learning to say no - its the only word users like your wife's cousin understand. If they ask why then simply hang up!

jimmycrackcorm

Your wife is a blocker right now refusing to take any direct action. In a way she is right because an immediate demand for repayment is going to cause trouble.

Instead the approach should be push for a future plan to get it back by stressing that you are going to need it back soon and ask the other couple to put forward options to follow up. That both gives them leeway and pressure to come up with the solution.

I don't think you should be resentful with them because as far as they are concerned you are being very relaxed about the money.

Diziet

You have to ask - building up resentment is not healthy, especially when you haven't even asked the question. I would leave the passive aggresive stuff out of it and just ask straight out. Offer to take money in installements if necessary, which makes it easier.

How about something like (maybe your wife could say that) - 'I hate to bring it up, but we could really use the 2K we loaned you last year; can we arrange to have it paid back?'. If they say they are going to find it hard, then ask them to pay back 200 a month or something. It is very hard for them to refuse in these circumstances.

In future, if you even lend money again, make an arrangement for it to be paid back at the same time - timescale, etc. Otherwise you write it off, and the friendship with it.

Knex*

Bringing this up shouldn't even be an issue in my eyes. If I was loaned money, and the loanee's job circumstance changed as did yours, OP, I would have been straight onto them to sort out repaying.

Talk it over with your wife, but I'd be adamant about bringing this up with them, be it either you who does it or your wife.

You shouldn't feel guilty either. You did the good deed here, they have no right to make you feel shite about asking for that money back now.

ShaShaBear

Explain to your wife that Christmas is coming up for you as well, and that you shouldn't have to maintain a sub-standard lifestyle to accomodate theirs.

resentment makes me ugly

resentment makes me ugly wrote: »

I've started saying no or telling them that they haven't given me enough notice and that I'm busy, but that always leads to "What are you doing?"

Good lord
Stop giving them reasons anyway - if you say no and you're busy that should be the end of the conversation. Don't feel like you have to justify it...