The Chinese are Quick Learners (2013)

Saab Ed

Chinese cars available in central Europe so far haven't exactly set the world on fire in the styling, quality and, in particular, safety department. Infact they've set the bar pretty low in quality terms and worryingly low from a safety aspect. This Qoros brand seems to be aiming higher though. Part owned by Chery, they've obviously realized that trying to sell an existing Chinese brand just wont cut it in more discerning markets. It'll be interesting to see market reaction to the brand.

It will also be interesting to see if the attempted strategic placing of the product slightly higher up the food chain, rather than just a cheap Chinese product, will actually work!

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/News/Search-Results/First-Official-Pictures/Qoros-GQ3-2013-first-official-pictures/

Mr Benevolent

Looks like they cloned a Passat. Could be popular based on looks alone.

Saab Ed

Another interesting article about them .....

http://www.globes.co.il/serveen/globes/docview.asp?did=1000809290&fid=1724

squod

This is what I think.......

Saab Ed

squod wrote: »

This is what I think.......

Tbh I want to mock them myself. Nothing I've seen from China so far impresses me although it does excite me, being a car nut, at the thoughts of so many potentialy new brands and models turning up in the future.

It's hard to knock this brand (so far) as easily. Outside investment , both financial and intellectual, and a very carefully crafted image from the off. Heavy European influence in the design and manufacturing end of things.

Maybe I'm being sold the line, maybe they will just be shiote when they get here. I just don't think so though. Sure they won't have the established brands worried just yet but I don't think they'll be junk either.

corglass

If they are 1.7 / 1.8 diesel, Sub 20k euro, decent interior then they'll sell like hot cakes

Cungi

Unfortunately China has a reputation for cheap, shit knock offs.
I think they're gonna have to work hard to shed that image.

Lets hope this dosent come on a set of Doublestar tyres.

squod

Saab Ed wrote: »

Tbh I want to mock them myself. Nothing I've seen from China so far impresses me although it does excite me, being a car nut, at the thoughts of so many potentialy new brands and models turning up in the future.

It's hard to knock this brand (so far) as easily. Outside investment , both financial and intellectual, and a very carefully crafted image from the off. Heavy European influence in the design and manufacturing end of things.

Maybe I'm being sold the line, maybe they will just be shiote when they get here. I just don't think so though. Sure they won't have the established brands worried just yet but I don't think they'll be junk either.

Would like to see a decent review. Wonder if smokerspack (YOUtuber) will get hold of one.

dgt

corglass wrote: »

If they are 1.7 / 1.8 diesel, Sub 20k euro, decent interior then they'll sell like hot cakes

Badge snobbery will disappear very quick if this is the case

Saab Ed

dgt wrote: »

Badge snobbery will disappear very quick if this is the case

Brands like this from China are going to further widen the gap between ordinary car and premium brand. Why buy a 25k focus when you can have it all for 15-16 ish from China or a little over 30 for the like sized, albeit lower spec Audi.

Renault / Nissan are ahead of the curve here in rescuing lost custom with their Dacia / Datsun strategy world wide, products that compete and in many ways better what China has to offer. VW are said to be looking into a sub brand aswell.

What's interesting about this particular Chinese brand is that they're not trying to portrait themselves as cut price or discount. It would appear they're going full on for the middle ground that's being lost daily by middle of the road brands. Brave strategy if that is the case given the hemorrhage of sales in that sector across Europe at the moment.

For Forks Sake

Saab Ed wrote: »

VW are said to be looking into a sub brand aswell.

Must. Not. Make. Joke.....

Saab Ed

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Must. Not. Make. Joke.....

Don't .......

But seriously, they're are looking at creating a marque below Seat & Skodas.

Heroditas

corglass wrote: »

If they are 1.7 / 1.8 diesel, Sub 20k euro, decent interior then they'll sell like hot cakes

Decent interior?! All they'll need is a CD player and air-con and they'll be touted as having "all the extras"!

Eric Cartman

Heroditas wrote: »

Decent interior?! All they'll need is a CD player and air-con and they'll be touted as having "all the extras"!

Alloys , pleather seats , a sunroof and it would be called "full spec"

Stinicker

Heroditas wrote: »

Decent interior?! All they'll need is a CD player and air-con and they'll be touted as having "all the extras"!

Put in 4 electric windows and they'd be ahead of the junk Toyota sell here.

Sofiztikated

Are we sure this is an actual car, and not a Passat clone that is actually a windup clock?

Needles73

Stinicker, Had you a bad experience witha toyota. Get over toyota.

Stinicker

Needles73 wrote: »

Stinicker, Had you a bad experience witha toyota. Get over toyota.

Yes, they are overpriced, underspecc'd junk, and every 2nd idiot thinks they are great. Plus I was very nearly killed in one of them because they have such a feather light clutch. You couldn't ask for a worse car imo.

colm_mcm

Stinicker wrote: »

Plus I was very nearly killed in one of them because they have such a feather light clutch.

Please tell us more


I see from previous posts that you've always driven automatics.

the_syco

Stinicker wrote: »

Plus I was very nearly killed in one of them because they have such a feather light clutch.

How did the clutch nearly kill you?

Cungi wrote: »

Unfortunately China has a reputation for cheap, shit knock offs.
I think they're gonna have to work hard to shed that image.

This. Until China shows it can produce cars whose owners survive car crashes, most people won't touch them.

JJJJNR

Like to see what it gets in the ncap tests.

colm_mcm

It wasn't long ago when the Koreans were selling old tech cars, back then ncap wasn't really that big.
If they're building a car to sell outside china then they're wasting their time not making it to European standards.

The mg6 got 4 stars so its not out of the question.

megafan

Stinicker wrote: »

Put in 4 electric windows and they'd be ahead of the junk Toyota sell here.

??

Stinicker

megafan wrote: »

??

Toyota's do not come with 4 electric windows as standard. It is 2013 and they still have windup windows in the back! :eek:

the_syco

Stinicker wrote: »

Toyota's do not come with 4 electric windows as standard. It is 2013 and they still have windup windows in the back! :eek:

Which is great for families that have kids; less chance of accidental chockage.

colm_mcm

the_syco wrote: »

Which is great for families that have kids; less chance of accidental chockage.

To be fair, with electric windows you can switch the back ones off.


I'd never measure how good a car is by how the back windows go up and down on the base model.

Needles73

Japanese manufacturers like toyota copied european technology and greatly improved it. Some of the early toyota engines share the same geometery of the ford bda engines... Same with korean manufacturers are now repected.
I dont see why China wont do the same in time. As rergards current toyotas i think they have been surpassed somewhat by Kia/hyundai but i dont mind admitting i see merit in them.

TrailerBob

Stinicker wrote: »

Toyota's do not come with 4 electric windows as standard. It is 2013 and they still have windup windows in the back! :eek:

Blame the Irish VRT system, not Toyota, who, despite a few high profile recalls, have consistently put out reliable and safe motoring, if a bit bland.

As for the Chinese brands, I reckon give it another 5 years and they'll be doing more than Hyundai and Kia are at the minute. The vastness of the money being poured into the industry there beggars belief. They are taking 5year old Japanese and Euro designs and using this to build a brand awareness.
This is one example.. Toyota Hilux Surf anyone??? http://auto.sibnet.ru/catalog/great_wall/suv_g5/

Watch this space....

megafan

Wouldn't dismiss Toyota's because of recalls if only a few other car marques could follow example rather than try & hide faults!

& Do expect China will in time wipe the floor with reasonable quality motors.... but maybe for the moment have enough problems supplying demand from their own home market!!

bazz26

Stinicker wrote: »

Yes, they are overpriced, underspecc'd junk, and every 2nd idiot thinks they are great. Plus I was very nearly killed in one of them because they have such a feather light clutch. You couldn't ask for a worse car imo.

You pretty much described most VWs there too.

Stinicker wrote: »

Toyota's do not come with 4 electric windows as standard. It is 2013 and they still have windup windows in the back! :eek:

You obviously haven't been in an Irish spec Audi A4 upto 2008 then, a so called premium car with rear windup windows. Lots of brand new entry level cars from European manufacturers have only front electric windows too, the Golf, Focus, Astra, Insignia, Mondeo, etc all come to mind, going by your definition that makes them junk too or does it only apply to Japanese cars in your eyes?

JohnBoy26

Looks like they have taken the windscreen from a megane II and the grill from a Laguna II.

JohnBoy26

Stinicker wrote: »

Yes, they are overpriced, underspecc'd junk, and every 2nd idiot thinks they are great. Plus I was very nearly killed in one of them because they have such a feather light clutch. You couldn't ask for a worse car imo.

Tbh I think Toyota aren't that bad on price if buying new..it's more in the second hand market that they are expensive as they are quiet popular with Irish buyers. You are right about them being poorly specced but tbh most people buy them for their reliabilty and couldn't care less about what spec they are. Id say most Toyota owners would look at you in bewilderment if you asked them had they a Terra, Strata or Luna spec :pac:

squod

Can't see money being pumped into these projects making up for lost ground. This has happened to many previous manufacturers in the past. It's only now that people are learning how crap from abroad is just that.

Americans are already talking about a fightback. Bringing manufacturing back to the US and making policy more manufactturing friendly.

We shouldn't be admiring these cars. It's European jobs down the tubes.

Saab Ed

squod wrote: »

Americans are already talking about a fightback. Bringing manufacturing back to the US and making policy more manufactturing friendly..

Jeybus, American stuff is nearly worse than the stuff from China. Junk. Can't imagine anyone except U.S. politicians looking for a good soundbite are saying that !

monkeypants

TrailerBob wrote: »

Blame the Irish VRT system, not Toyota, who, despite a few high profile recalls, have consistently put out reliable and safe motoring, if a bit bland.

This is what drives the "Paddy spec" cars. Put too many extras on the car that you were planning to market in the €30k space and the Irish government will push it towards the €40k space, where it might not sell.

squod

Saab Ed wrote: »

Jeybus, American stuff is nearly worse than the stuff from China. Junk. Can't imagine anyone except U.S. politicians looking for a good soundbite are saying that !

But shure fords, VW/oowdis, hyundai have one world platforms. They can make them anywhere. Global market, global platforms, global manufacturing systems. They can go anywhere.

Time to ditch the past. Out sourcing is so last year. T'morrow is about proper management. Not some idiots dream of making cheap sh1te in China.

galwaytt

Saab Ed wrote: »

Jeybus, American stuff is nearly worse than the stuff from China. Junk. Can't imagine anyone except U.S. politicians looking for a good soundbite are saying that !

....even if it was - and I don't agree btw - at least they're not using one-stop-short-of-indentured/servitude-labour.

Or should that read 'labor' ?

Gurgle

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

Id say most Toyota owners would look at you in bewilderment if you asked them had they a Terra, Strata or Luna spec :pac:

That's not bewilderment, its apathy.

SeanW

I wouldn't drive Chinese rubbish if you paid me!

Saab Ed

More from the Qoros people, this time with a tourer and a cross over/ suv thingy.

http://www.worldcarfans.com/113021553862/qoros-3-sedan-cross-hybrid-concept-and-estate-concept

unkel

Looks like they are cloning the likes of Kia / Hyundai

Yuk

But plenty of people seem to buy that sh1te from Korea these days, those same people will be buying Chinese sh1te in 10 years time...

Chris_Heilong

galwaytt wrote: »

....even if it was - and I don't agree btw - at least they're not using one-stop-short-of-indentured/servitude-labour.

Or should that read 'labor' ?

What are you talking about. i know people who work in a car building plant in china and they are on good money reletivly speaking. wages in china are on the up at the moment. the reason alot of foreign companies are relocating to india.

Voodoomelon

the_syco wrote: »

Which is great for families that have kids; less chance of accidental chockage.

Do all cars not have auto reverse these days? Was around 18 years ago!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fl8oA7aE9s0

JohnBoy26

unkel wrote: »

Looks like they are cloning the likes of Kia / Hyundai

Yuk

But plenty of people seem to buy that sh1te from Korea these days, those same people will be buying Chinese sh1te in 10 years time...

There's nothing sh1te about korean stuff these days tbh.

unkel

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

There's nothing sh1te about korean stuff these days tbh.

You'll probably enjoy owning a Qoros too in a few years time

JohnBoy26

unkel wrote: »

You'll probably enjoy owning a Qoros too in a few years time

Why is that?

Saab Ed

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

Why is that?

Because despite the argument about Korean stuff being good these days (which it is, Infact it was always on par reliability wise with mainstream stuff) fact still remains that most of the cars are characterless milk sop. This stuff from China looks the very same which is probably the very reason it would sell.

JohnBoy26

Saab Ed wrote: »

Because despite the argument about Korean stuff being good these days (which it is, Infact it was always on par reliability wise with mainstream stuff) fact still remains that most of the cars are characterless milk sop. This stuff from China looks the very same which is probably the very reason it would sell.

I agree, they are characterless but so were other very well built cars like Toyotas of the late 90's and so on.

Apart from that though they are imo very good and are legues ahead of the bargain basement cars they made years ago. They are now on par with many better known brands in terms of quality and design and have surpassed some in reliability.

Hyundai and Kias of today or infact any car cannot be compared to a chinese car we know nothing about. For all we know they could have brilliant build quality and decent reliability, and who knows! maybe behind the styling there might be a bit of character somewhere

unkel

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

I agree, they are characterless but so were other very well built cars like Toyotas of the late 90's and so on.

My point exactly. Toyotas started to do very well for the buyers completely and utterly dis-interested in cars in the 90's, Kias in the 00's, and no doubt Qoros in the 10's

JohnBoy26

unkel wrote: »

My point exactly. Toyotas started to do very well for the buyers completely and utterly dis-interested in cars in the 90's, Kias in the 00's, and no doubt Qoros in the 10's

Ok fair point:p most people dis-interested in cars do buy cars like that, but im intested in cars and like Toyotas of the late 90's and so on. Not for their bland looks or characterless drive but for their sheer quality and mechanical simplicity. Each to their own I suppose:D

Viper_JB

I'd be interesting in hearing about the engine and safety ratings (non-Chinese safety ratings). Two areas they don't seem to be able to crack as of yet, I'd have a feeling though as cheap plastic interiors go this will probably win a prize.